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Remove lending LVL120 PVP decks


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Just now, malldi said:

What is the diffrence between Skylords Reborn in current state and other RTS games in terms of PvP then?

-> The absoluteley unique Voidsystem and the mechanic of passive ressource income, which makes this game less APM heavy and allows you to focus on combat and strategic decisionmaking only

-> Full information gameplay allowing you to make alot more precise calculations

-> The ability to adjust your cardset and individualize your faction based on your playstyle and strategy

-> The possibility of spawning units and spells directly into the battlefield

 

 

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I'd invert this. In Ranked, it should be skill that decides where you end up on the leaderboard. Not capacity for grinding. And the reality is that if you fight with a non-optimized deck vs an optimiz

Agreed. Also, many people say "they take away a part of the game, i.e. grinding for a PvP deck", but imo it's the opposite, they open a new part of the game for me. The thing is, that I do not ha

I mean, you can still grind? But now you can also play (2) decks while you wait And so you are not at a disadvantage vs someone just because you didn't grind enough, and newcomers can get direct

@RadicalXSorry that I underestimated Skylords Reborn a bit, it might be because I've played only few RTS games in my life and it was many years ago, thanks for clarifying. 

But what I just meant to say was that all of that discussion started because that change is very impactful for many people. As you said there are many other diffrences but for RTS-newbie like me they aren't as noticeble as card collecting aspect of the game. I remember years ago that people were saying that Battleforge is diffrent because it offers card collecting.
Some treat it like it's nothing, but if so many people disagree with that change then it means that there's something to talk about.

Edited by malldi
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For what it's worth, I've introduced half a dozen completely new players to the game, and they all gravitated towards playing only PvP after a few co-op campaign games.

None of them would be able to play PvP so soon without the free decks, so I am 100% against removing them as I firmly believe it would do more harm than good. Losing new players because they can't play a preferred game mode without first grinding for hundreds of hours doesn't seem right, does it?

But, including something like a fee to rent the decks, like some have suggested here, wouldn't be such a bad idea. Then you don't really "own" the deck or cards, so I'd support that.

Having different PvP streams, like ranked with free decks & ranked without free decks does not seem to be a good solution with a small playerbase. At that point, it looks like the Tomes game mode from the original game, and we know from experience this mode failed. 

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11 minutes ago, Gretmarie said:

Dropping in here to say that without the free PVP decks i wouldn't play the game at all.

I used to enjoy PVP and only did PVE for the upgrades; which i don't have time or ambitious for anymore. So the free PVP decks increased the playerbase by 1 (me) atleast.

And for me i wont play the Game until the Free-PVP-Decks has been removed. Im not a PvE Guy, my Rank was Hero at the old Battleforge on PVP but it destroy the Game and give me zero Motivation to Play it. Thats why i left it after a single Mission. 

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I honestly think the core of all the perceived problems is the fact that you can currently customize the free decks you have with your own collection. I strongly believe that removing this option and having concrete free decks that rotate will alleviate a lot of those negative emotions currently. 

The grind was shorter during beta than original BF days but it was still excruciating. I like making my own "trick" pvp decks and am willing to grind for it. However, I still want to play pvp to grind to that in the meantime. I can't remember the last time there were so many active pvp players, I haven't even recognized the name of one of them yet. That is incredible and I can't help but feel the free decks were a big part of increased participation. PVE did not rise in popularity nearly as much as PVP has.

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Free PvP decks is a boon for the gamemode. Handicapping the PvP scene at the beginning by removing the free decks would kill the game mode long-term, and removing it later would make the barrier to entry incredibly high. I play Pure Shadow, the most expensive deck in the game bfp and gold-wise. I don't want to grind rPvE for weeks to be able to play my deck, if that's what it turns into I will quit.

Only change that is appropriate is locking the free decks into their own card pool like the old tome decks. This way you could mix-and-match between the two weekly decks but otherwise be locked-in. If you want a fully custom deck you would need to level-up cards from your own collection. 

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All those agains free PvP deck - please realize that PvP is endangered mode. It needs certain critical mass to be playable - you need enough players online. During beta this was not the really the case. Something had to be changed and free PvP is it. It does the following

- removes huge barrier to entry for newcomers (described above multiple times)

- Hooks players for longer time. E.g. in orignal BF I had to invest some money and time to get one deck. At that point I was very reluctant to do it again to build some different PvP decks. But this barrier made me lose interest gradually. With free PvP decks everyone can "spice it up", try different factions and thus keeping players hooked for longer.

When you are arguing that you like to grind you mean for your favourite PvP deck. Have you considered trying different faction? Add 3+ more "grinds" on top of what is needed for your deck to actually have all PvP factions available.

Also, I dont think that splitting PvP modes is good idea - at least until the plaerbase is really really large enough

 

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4 hours ago, kuwahara said:

hello starter the game today where i can find this free pvp deck ? i search my cards and its empty.

 

It is the tab at the top of the forge on the right side. Looks like a dagger. You get to select 2 free decks each week.

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Has been a few years since i posted a suggestion and actually invested myself again in the project after a few irl difficulties. But as i see that this is the hot topic for now may i offer a solution that might help or simply be the basis for some similar alteration, or just plain garbage xd.

 Would it not help if the premade fully upgraded pvp decks were allowed for anything but ranked play? You can use them anyway,anyhow but you can't take them into the true pvp thingy... the ranked games. For that you will actually need to grind the other part of the game as well so that you get the necessary materials to build the deck you want thats it's 'you' and with that you can go and try conquer a spot in the ranked ladderboards. 

I am not a pvp guy by any means so i only give this feedback based on what i saw from your own comments. One problem that i see immediately is that game has launched and people have already went into the ranked with the 'op' decks and have already started ranking up.

Hope any of this helps, remember anything and everything here is just to have fun :)

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So after starting a little bit late to the party I finally started playing 2 days ago.
After waiting for the final release for years I was so hyped and couldnt wait to start playing.
I mean i could finally play BF again, grind PvE Maps to farm upgrades to build an amazing PvP deck, buy & sell stuff on the AH to increase my BFP to buy stuff for a proper PvP deck. What could go wrong?
2 days later my motivation to play has gone to 0. I run every game into a 120 Pure Fire or Pure Shadow Deck.
No variety at all.
Neither do I want to play PVE to farm upgrades - i mean hey, i have everything for free, right? - nor do I want to play PVP because i run into the same 2 maxed out perfect decks EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And what point in selling/ buying stuff on the AH, because once again, I have everything i need for free.

So TLDR: Those free PvP decks took every bit of motivation to play any aspect of the game. Neither PVP, nor PVE, nor trading on the AH provides any fun.

If it were for me, remove the free decks completely. If staff wants to keep the free decks, at least the Upgrades to U2 or rather U1. Thats more than enough to test the decks. And/Or make the decks exclusively for Non-Ranked!

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1 hour ago, Geradon said:

So after starting a little bit late to the party I finally started playing 2 days ago.
After waiting for the final release for years I was so hyped and couldnt wait to start playing.
I mean i could finally play BF again, grind PvE Maps to farm upgrades to build an amazing PvP deck, buy & sell stuff on the AH to increase my BFP to buy stuff for a proper PvP deck. What could go wrong?
2 days later my motivation to play has gone to 0. I run every game into a 120 Pure Fire or Pure Shadow Deck.
No variety at all.
Neither do I want to play PVE to farm upgrades - i mean hey, i have everything for free, right? - nor do I want to play PVP because i run into the same 2 maxed out perfect decks EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And what point in selling/ buying stuff on the AH, because once again, I have everything i need for free.

So TLDR: Those free PvP decks took every bit of motivation to play any aspect of the game. Neither PVP, nor PVE, nor trading on the AH provides any fun.

If it were for me, remove the free decks completely. If staff wants to keep the free decks, at least the Upgrades to U2 or rather U1. Thats more than enough to test the decks. And/Or make the decks exclusively for Non-Ranked!

In open stress test I was playing a bit of PvP. I was running across Shadow and Fire decks all the time as well, and about free decks, I think there were either none, or just 2 stages of upgrades, so nothing changed in that matter. If PvP is putting you off because of decks you play against, then perhaps it's not a gamemode for you? Nothing changed in here over past few years.

Making free decks a bit weaker (in different ways) could be a good thing, because some decks are just perfect. However, I believe cards with 2 upgrades, was a tested solution at some point, and for some reasons it was not appropriate.

Also splitting already small PvP community into smaller parts is a bad idea, this is why Devs are not eager to split queues and so on.

Edited by Dallarian
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I agree that new players need good deck to play pvp and thats a good idea ,but we are all new players ! Everywhere i go i see the advertisement "MULTIACCOUNT WILL GET YOU BANNED" ,well that free deck is one of the best reasons to create multiple accounts,i just have to create a new forum account and now i can play pvp with 120 level deck.

Edited by kuwahara
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18 hours ago, Geradon said:

So after starting a little bit late to the party I finally started playing 2 days ago.
After waiting for the final release for years I was so hyped and couldnt wait to start playing.
I mean i could finally play BF again, grind PvE Maps to farm upgrades to build an amazing PvP deck, buy & sell stuff on the AH to increase my BFP to buy stuff for a proper PvP deck. What could go wrong?
2 days later my motivation to play has gone to 0. I run every game into a 120 Pure Fire or Pure Shadow Deck.
No variety at all.
Neither do I want to play PVE to farm upgrades - i mean hey, i have everything for free, right? - nor do I want to play PVP because i run into the same 2 maxed out perfect decks EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And what point in selling/ buying stuff on the AH, because once again, I have everything i need for free.

So TLDR: Those free PvP decks took every bit of motivation to play any aspect of the game. Neither PVP, nor PVE, nor trading on the AH provides any fun.

If it were for me, remove the free decks completely. If staff wants to keep the free decks, at least the Upgrades to U2 or rather U1. Thats more than enough to test the decks. And/Or make the decks exclusively for Non-Ranked!

I'm really confused which game people were playing before, because this has always been my experience in BF. With the difference that I can now at least start with a lvl 120 deck myself, instead of having to grind PVE until I can compete in PVP.

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Still loving the Free PvP Decks. 

Was playing with some friends earlier, they've made new accounts recently but they were able to pick up a deck instantly and 1v1 2v2 together and pick up on old strategies.

I also like to introduce actual new friends to PvP without theorycrafting a deck first, but having something to play with.

Not to mention the ability for ANYONE to compete in a tournament

Edited by xs0ulLess
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On 12/22/2020 at 11:56 AM, VolvoxGlobator said:

All those agains free PvP deck - please realize that PvP is endangered mode. It needs certain critical mass to be playable - you need enough players online.

 

Can't stress this point enough. At the moment the pvp experience is the best since 2012. I feel like some players who feel bypassed because someone gets something for free dont realize pvp would just die again if we dont have the free decks. Or they dont care but thats just mean :(

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On 12/30/2020 at 5:44 PM, Geradon said:

So after starting a little bit late to the party I finally started playing 2 days ago.
After waiting for the final release for years I was so hyped and couldnt wait to start playing.
I mean i could finally play BF again, grind PvE Maps to farm upgrades to build an amazing PvP deck, buy & sell stuff on the AH to increase my BFP to buy stuff for a proper PvP deck. What could go wrong?
2 days later my motivation to play has gone to 0. I run every game into a 120 Pure Fire or Pure Shadow Deck.
No variety at all.
Neither do I want to play PVE to farm upgrades - i mean hey, i have everything for free, right? - nor do I want to play PVP because i run into the same 2 maxed out perfect decks EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! And what point in selling/ buying stuff on the AH, because once again, I have everything i need for free.

So TLDR: Those free PvP decks took every bit of motivation to play any aspect of the game. Neither PVP, nor PVE, nor trading on the AH provides any fun.

If it were for me, remove the free decks completely. If staff wants to keep the free decks, at least the Upgrades to U2 or rather U1. Thats more than enough to test the decks. And/Or make the decks exclusively for Non-Ranked!

Premade decks are all 100% known. With this in mind, one could make counter decks much more easily, or at very least be much more prepared against the exact same deck. 

The free decks provide a very good base, but are by no means perfect. Therefore if you alter and adapt your deck, you will be much better off than using the free decks forever.

You can then use the bfp you earned and gold to upgrade those counter cards. The only thing the free pvp decks does is give a good base.

 

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1 hour ago, Ultrakool said:

Premade decks are all 100% known. With this in mind, one could make counter decks much more easily, or at very least be much more prepared against the exact same deck. 

The free decks provide a very good base, but are by no means perfect. Therefore if you alter and adapt your deck, you will be much better off than using the free decks forever.

You can then use the bfp you earned and gold to upgrade those counter cards. The only thing the free pvp decks does is give a good base.

 

I disagree.

My normal PvP deck differs by one card with free deck available, making it already perfect for PvP - my change is actually a "nerf" of deck.

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4 hours ago, Zyna said:

We added a new mode in sparring which does not allow the usage of the free PvP decks. Free PvP decks will be allowed in the ranked mode just as before. We do not want players who get lucky with boosters, or those who have spent the most time grinding upgrades and gold in PvE maps to have any kind of advantage.
 

 

 

Dont know how people feel about this, but for me this changes absolutely nothing. If I play PVP, i play ranked exclusively. (Also I dont think people will use the option to play the Collection-Mode when there is a Free120-Mode or only use it very rarely, which leads to high Q times.)

If you would switch that change, so people can play anything in unranked, but actually need to use their own deck in ranked, that'd be perfect.

I mean unranked is meant for testing stuff, playing for fun etc. Ranked is - as the name says - a ranked mode with leaderboard etc. where you can expect people to put in a little work,  right? Also doenst farming cards & upgrades add longlivety to the game? 

I remember that games where you got everything instantly never had much of a replayability-factor for me.

Would love to know how other people feel about this.

 

Edited by Geradon
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If you want actual people to play pvp against there needs to be free pvp decks. Deck level has always been the largest barrier to pvp. Was always my biggest gripe in battleforge.

Edited by Torban
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