Eirias

Confirmed this too.

As an update to this apparently it's possible to make it so looter doesn't activate unless the thugs have been attacking (like batariel flames) PvE players want this so looter is preserved as a pve mechanic. If looter doesn't activate unless the thugs have been attacking for several seconds, any pvp player can micro units away from thugs so they don't activate looter. in Pve enemies don't run away. Biggest downside to this is that it's not very clear when looter is active. Imo that's not really a problem since only a couple people know what it does now, so this change could even be done "invisibly" and most players would not realize anything has been done.

If you want people to submit results early (and esp so people have an idea of the time to beat) maybe you can set a specific time to tally results, like midnight in GMT+0, and send some small reward for whoever has the current best time by each daily deadline?

We could play on custom maps with all walls remove

Since when? Revenant ability does not define lost souls, and even bandits lifesteal and stonekin armor (actual good abilities) don't define the factions, just give it some flavor. I mean I'm making compromises to choose worse t2 units which also function as t3 units, so at t3 there would be 5 useful units, much more than the 1 or 2 usually used right now The same way I'd consider lifeweaving to be a t2/t3 card because it is never played on t1 units.

I edited my original comment to show some concrete deck analysis.

Both parts haha. But mostly when I open the window. i added like 3-4 new decks this week when I started noticing the issue, but then I deleted them so I guess it's not related to having to load too many decks?

Yeah, fire shadow is a whole different story without such an obvious solution. It has multiple problems, not just one Still we talked a lot about some solutions in the discord... For almost free. The compromise is that you have to use inferior cards. Sundy is almost certainly better than vileblood. Ghostspears are better than Twilight minions. Gladiatrix would be better than the proposd t2 twilight hag. And scythe fiend/hurricane will be better than deathglider even if deathglider is buffed. A t3 S squad doesn't exist, but t3 twilight minions would be worse than bandit lancer. T3 vileblood would be worse than virtuoso. T3 twilight hag would be worse than (magma hurler? An already terrible card). T3 deathglider would actually be pretty good in the way I imagine it, since there would be no other reason to play the card. As I've said many times before, I expect that most top FN players would still prefer the current, more optimal cards, but at least there would be a use for twilight units and it would allow an alternate playstyle and a way to have counterplay vs lost souls in tournament games or something. By the way, here is my suggestion as a starting place to look at stat changes, in case people have not seen it on the discord: Case in point: All fire nature player STILL spend a slot on disenchant. Even considering that the gladi disenchant is cheaper than the card version. Nobody wants FN t2 to be stronger It's already strong, that's why we use so many deck slots. It would be like suggesting that stonekin get a buff in t2. I think it's great that stonekin has many optional cards so you can play t2-heavy or t3-heavy. FN only has the option to play t2-heavy, and I think twilight transformation is the perfect way to allow weaker t2 and receive a stronger t3. If players want to play that way. Yeah that idea is gone. We are only looking at the 1-to-1 transformation which can only be used once (well I guess we could make an exception for something, maybe slaver can transform twice and somehow become an OP t4 XL unit )

Oh cool Btw something I just noticed today was a lot of lag and hanging when I wanted to change decks. Usually it's like a second or two, but today it was like several seconds every time. Any changes that would have affected that?

Update on this @Zyna was able to make the change i requested in like 1 min But it creates an unbound creature. Right now spawning a bound creature is impossible (update he just said he thought of an idea) So another idea is to just make the transformation unbind the unit power (so unit--> same unit but boundless), but maybe add a 30 sec initial cooldown or something.

As far as I understand based on what @Kubik has mentioned about previous possible changes, this is actually an easy change that he knows how to do. I believe there is just a unit ID, and when you transform your twilight unit you click something in your deck and it feeds that ID to the transform ability. So it should basically only require a number change to make pvp vileblood into pve vileblood. For transformations to units that don't have a stat-buffed version in pve, it would require creating a new unit and unit ID. Kubik as already showed that this is easy to do (for example, by making a playable bandit sniper) as long as you piggyback off of an existing card. The current transformation effect does have a selectable unit ID--if it's not so easy to just replace that with a constant ID, you could instead use the twilight curse ability which always has a constant ID to twilight bug.

well, that would be a huge buff. I'd love to run around with my 60p vilebloods But I don't see what the 1 tier restriction even matters, since I could twilight minion-->mutating maniac-->twilight abomination while still only going 1 tier at a time.

Oh rip. Then I guess there is no advantage haha.

Pretty much everyone agrees that twilight transformation is a lame ability. If you don't know what that is, all "twilight" (cards which require nature and fire) have an ability theme which is to transform into another twilight card in your deck. Sometimes the transformation comes with an ability (the best one is twilight minions' ability which makes nearby twilight units do 30% more damage for 20 sec). The ability is lackluster because Transforming takes 85% of the cost of the regular unit (in most cases) +at least 60 power for the cheapest twilight unit, which is usually more expensive than just summoning the unit you want in the first place, and way more expensive than just using a breeding grounds Transforming does not heal the unit Transforming still takes charges Transforming does not allow you to exceed the unit limit The only upside of transforming is that your unit becomes unbound. Unlike similar abilities like shadow phoenix and mind control, twilight transformation continues to bind unit power. There are 3 uses where I have seen the twilight transformation effect in games: In PvP, if you want to launch a sneak attack with vileblood you could start with twilight minions and transform them, to spend 171 power for a 130 cost unit with a 20 sec damage buff. In my opinion this is not nearly worth 41 power. In PvP, if you use twilight curse on a vileblood it triggers the vileblood's transformation effect. This ability WILL spawn a full HP unit, but it cost 100 power for a unit that is actually worse than vileblood + lava ability. IMO this is still underwhelming and also requires TWO extra slots in an already slot-intensive deck In PvE, you can make a massive unbound army. I tried this once or twice and generally found it ineffective (thats because it's actually still bound). PvE speedrunners also say that it's not worth it (especially because twilight t4 units are not very good and there is no flexibility for other orbs). I suggest that twilight transformation become something like a "twilight evolution." Instead of a unit transforming into any unit in the deck, I suggest that the unit be able to transform into a specific unit with one tier higher, once that number of orbs is obtained. For example, perhaps vileblood could transform into mutating maniac once you get t3. Perhaps mutating maniac could transform into twilight abomination once you get t4. Alternatively, each unit could transform into a "better" version of itself. For example, the pvp vileblood could transform into the pve vileblood, with better stats and a powerful effect upon death. (I would totally play deathglider if it could transform into the pve deathglider ) My proposed solution has several benefits: It reduces the number of deck slots required. In PvP, fire nature requires many slots in t2. Many fire nature decks run a single t3 card (giant slayer). I could see players using deathglider instead of hurricane if the deathglider could turn into a t3 unit at that stage of the game (so when I'm t3, I spawn deathglider for 60p and transform it for say 100p). This is weaker than just spawning a t3 unit because it takes more micro, it's slower, it cost more, and twilight t3 cards are simply weaker than other t3 cards. However, with deck slots saved, it might be worth it (also the power is unbound, which is a big advantage). It allows more pve deck flexibility. Do you want to play a twilight abomination, but also use frenetic assault? If there is a t3 card which transforms into twilight abomination, then you could play that unit and transform it. Since the "evolve" effect only considers the number of orbs, not the color, you could use this workaround to create an army of twilight abominations with nat-fire-shad-shad orbs. (If this is too strong for pve, we could make it check both the number and color of orbs). It saves charges. Pure twilight decks don't have access to offering, so this is another way to bypass charges. Use a t3 card with 8 or 12 charges and transform it to get 8 or 12 t4 units. Of course it requires more total power spent this way. I'm not sure how t4 creatures could evolve, but they could also just keep the regular twilight transformation effect. Not like anyone would use the new or old effect on t4 units, even if the effect was somehow good. EDIT: Just to clarify for those not following the discussion in the balance discord, the current proposal is for units to transform/evolve into a better version of themselves. So when you are t3, you could transform your vileblood into a t3 vileblood similar to the pve enemy. Zyna has a working demo of this effect. For t4 units, the transformation will be based on power instead of having another orb. The bound power will be the same as the original unit, hp will be the same fraction (1/2 hp t2 vileblood turns into 1/2 hp t3 vileblood), and the transformation cost will be cheap or possibly free. We have the ability to balance a new version of every twilight card, so I'm working on this proposal over the next few days. EDIT 2: Deckbuilding options Since some people don't know what is in a typical FN deck, here is a standard one: The t3 is a bit larger than typical for FN (smaller than pure fire), so you could replace mortar or sunderer for t3 cards, but you will need to make some t1 concessions to do that. I currently play with sunderer-->vileblood because I think the L units is strong against the meta options right now (although vileblood is probably the weakest L unit in all of T2). Another option is sunderer-->virtuoso, which gives higher odds of winning t3. Assuming that all the changes go as I want, I would experiment with the following deck which is designed for heavy t3 fights like 2v2: So sundy-->vileblood sacrifices t1 options (esp against shadow) to have some better t2 matchups against some factions (pure shadow, lost souls, Pure fire) and a t3 unit which is like virtuoso. Gladi-->twilight hag (assuming it becomes t2) because hag will be able to 1-shot + erupt skyfire drake, which is the main reason gladi is needed. Gladi would be a better L counter and swift unit (as I am thinking about this though, FN still struggles a bit against L units so I wonder if hag would need the exact same stats as gladi, but without swift and disenchant) Scythe fiends-->deathglider means you'll struggle against defenders and spirit hunters. If deathglider got a t2 buff this might be viable. In 2v2 though, my partner's darkelves can take care of enemy s uniits as long as I provide knockback via hurricane or deathglider. In 1v1 i might keep scythe fiends and use deathglider instead of hurricane if I really wanted to include this card. Ghostspear-->twilight minion is the most obvious substitution. Ghostspear is better because it has slightly better stats, has reach to kill rooted melee units, and can switch to S counter. All of these bonuses are nice, but rarely dealbreakers. In this deck I'm also assuming that twilight hag get some kind of cc buff in t3, so perhaps I could try dropping mortar-->thunderstorm to really round out a t3-heavy deck. Analysis: this deck will suffer against S units and L units (depending on twilight hag t2 stats) in t2 but this can be overcome by a shadow partner's Aura of corruption and darkeleves. In return I get 3 below-average t3 cards, 2 above average t3 cards (deathglider and giant slayer), and thunderstorm (currently available but makes no sense because if t3 lasts longer than 2 minutes FN is out of charges and dead). The "below average" t3 units would help round out unit counters (twilight hag is AA and L counter, minions can defend silverwind or enemy giant slayers) while also added more overall charges to FN. Lack of charges is one reason that FN loses t3 to other decks. Even if all 6 "t3" cards were at the average power level of a t3 card, this t3 would still not be too strong. Consider that lost souls typically plays a 5 card t3 where all cards are significantly above the average power curve, and if players really want to emphasize t3 it's possible to use 7-8 t3 cards in shadow frost, pure shadow (I've even seen 10 card t3 in 2v2 pure shadow), and aragorn-style stonekin. Having these cards as a t3 option would not make fire nature too strong, but it would provide a "win more" feature which FN completely lacks. I expect this deck would become a strong meta option in 2v2 because t3 is more important there, but in 1v1 most high-level games are ended in t1 or t2 (unless you're fighting a defensive deck that just wants to save slots and go t3). In 1v1 I could see twilight minions being played most of the time, with vileblood and twilight hag also played some of the time depending on the player and meta. Scythe fiends are also important in many matchups, so deathglider is a hard sell unless it could replace hurricane by changing its its attack pattern (like frost mage) to more reliably knock back s units. (although don't forget that frost mages have better stats than deathglider and stonekin players still usually play both frost mage and hurricane).

Since we're talking about this again, I want to re-iterate my suggestion: turn curse well into a "disenchant well." Make it function like purple disenchant but just for wells. When you play it on the enemy well, it loses any existing building protects and can't be protected again for X secs. Maybe we can start with 100 power and 15 sec curse time. This would allow it to be used as a counter to break through frost defense, while not being useful in other scenarios. Lost souls players can't just enter really high power levels, defend and slowly snipe enemy wells with curse well. They'd have to be able to kick the well too.