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UPDATE: BFP Reserves and Boosters


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18 hours ago, Gwiven said:

Im new to the game and was wondering is there a way to see when you get the BFP from the reserve and in that case where. So far ive only seen the quests and the achivments.

 

This system is only implemented on the test server so far :-3

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Hail, Skylords, Skyladies, and other Skyfolk, A while back, we implemented the Reserve System for BattleForge Points (BFP) onto the test server to figure out the effects of a new way to earn BFP

UPDATE Thank you all for your feedback and support so far, guardians of Nyn! We're pushing out an update coming soon that tackles some of the concerns that have been voiced regarding the changes

Frequent (daily) play is already rewarded with the daily boost. You get 250bfp daily if you play one hour while if you don't play  150bfp of it is stored for the next day (to a max of 550). So playing

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On 5/13/2020 at 3:13 PM, Gwiven said:

Im new to the game and was wondering is there a way to see when you get the BFP from the reserve and in that case where. So far ive only seen the quests and the achivments.

@Gwiven That system is under testing on the test server. The live server is still using the old System. write !BFP on the discord server and the bot will explain it. There was the !BFP afaik on the testserver to see the current reserve.

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14 hours ago, Halis said:

@Gwiven That system is under testing on the test server. The live server is still using the old System. write !BFP on the discord server and the bot will explain it. There was the !BFP afaik on the testserver to see the current reserve.

It’s .!BFP but yeah

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Great work! I look forward seeing this on the open beta server.

I do want to state that the PvE grind is very much there, even if you lower the level cap. The reason is that gold is pretty scarce if you only play PvP. If you wish to upgrade one ultra rare you would have to play 100+ PvP games. To counter balance rPvE grinds, and GOL hacks I would suggest to increase the gold you gain in playing PvP.

Edited by Zappyx
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1 hour ago, Zappyx said:

Great work! I look forward seeing this on the open beta server.

I do want to state that the PvE grind is very much there, even if you lower the level cap. The reason is that gold is pretty scarce if you only play PvP. If you wish to upgrade one ultra rare you would have to play 100+ PvP games. To counter balance boring rPvE grinds and GOL hacks I would suggest to increase the gold you gain in playing PvP.

There are no GoL hacks only game mechanic.

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On 5/27/2020 at 5:03 PM, Zappyx said:

That is not the point of my post, so I'll edit it because it seems triggering

Some people really thinking that it is hacks. It is not triggering, but should be not written in forum to prevent the spread rumors :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@MrXLink

Bfp per min is awesome but  IMHO you should also add gold per min  playtime for communitymaps and pvp or I still have to farm gold in maps that I not wanna play anymore. 

Pls not force me to farm Gol, Soultree or rpve over and over again.  :-) 

Your bfp gain is only half of the real deal to the way to make all game modes worth playing. Bring to an end what you started. 

Check it's a communitymap or pvp  then activate extra gold over time gain. Use same system like bfp. Just have to choose the gold gain rate. 

Communitymaps have unlimited potential and content and you not have work creating them. 

 

Kind regards

Edited by Karl Lavafeld
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  • 1 month later...

Hello everyone,

is it intended property of the system, that 10 minutes of the play (e.g. PvP) gives different amount of BFP from reserve?  Talking only about the part of rewards which goes from the continously added BFP, not the daily bonus nor transfered daily bonus.

Putting the formula into excel

image.thumb.png.09791854c874f366db1c93abb3a96bc2.png

yields various rewards per same play time.

This means, that it motivates* people to not to play, until the reserve is high enough. Assume we define optimum as least time played to get max BFP. Then optimal "controller" would play only when the reserve is almost full, play a few mins and then stop. Wait for refill and repeat. Just looking into this table it would spend roughly 10x less in game yet earn same BFP compared to someone who "operates" with empty reserve. And even "more less" compared to someone who just plays nonstop

What is the motivation behind this nonlinearity? Please note, that I for sure wont be able to be much active, so this system actually benefits me personally, but it really feels odd, that rewards is proportional to current state of the reserve, rather than just time played (assuming sufficient amount of BFP is stored)

*again, only with respect to reserve reward part of the system

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8 hours ago, VolvoxGlobator said:

Is it intended property of the system, that 10 minutes of the play (e.g. PvP) gives different amount of BFP from reserve?  Talking only about the part of rewards which goes from the continously added BFP, not the daily bonus nor transfered daily bonus.

---

This means, that it motivates* people to not to play, until the reserve is high enough. Assume we define optimum as least time played to get max BFP. Then optimal "controller" would play only when the reserve is almost full, play a few mins and then stop. Wait for refill and repeat. Just looking into this table it would spend roughly 10x less in game yet earn same BFP compared to someone who "operates" with empty reserve. And even "more less" compared to someone who just plays nonstop

What is the motivation behind this nonlinearity? Please note, that I for sure wont be able to be much active, so this system actually benefits me personally, but it really feels odd, that rewards is proportional to current state of the reserve, rather than just time played (assuming sufficient amount of BFP is stored)

*again, only with respect to reserve reward part of the system

Yes, this is intended behaviour. When looking at the way we're rewarding people, we need to take the following consequences into account:

  • Having no cap will have players with more time on their hands absolutely dominate the economy, game and progression. We want to avoid this.
  • Having a hard cap and linear gain will be completely fair, but will make people stop once they hit their limit
  • Having a soft cap will make the BFP gain less over time and may demotivate players anyway once their BFP rate for the day isn't worth it anymore

On top of that, we want to close the gap between constantly playing players by giving players who have work or can't play as much a bit of leeway to catch up to others. This is what causes the whole "refilling nets more BFP" scenario and is completely intentional. The reserve system is specifically designed to be an alteration to a softcap that accounts for lost time. This means that yes, based on playtime, those taking breaks get more BFP for their in-game time. However, in real time, those playing continuously will be able to gain more. It's important that, in order to earn the same amount of BFP (based on 1.5h sessions, 3h breaks, 280BFP) someone who would take breaks would have to take hours longer in real time than continuous players. This difference in time racks up fast, and sure, you can just do other things in the meantime, but to forcibly optimise this is quite tedious and a lot of grinding/minmaxing for frankly not a huge difference in BFP earned. If you were to "abuse" this system, you would have to willingly quit and wait every single time you play a game, which we assume few people will do. There are much more benefits to having players catch up and feeling more rewarded in that regard than there are drawbacks to the system not being perfectly linear and fair. We'd rather have some people optimise the hell out of this if they enjoy that than to give out too much market control too quickly, widen the gap or have zero reason to continue as opposed to "less". Compensation always comes at a cost; it's about whether the benefits outweigh it, and I consider that they do. So yes, this is intended, nonlinear and should be reasonably balanced to feel not as limiting to regular players and more empowering to those whom the system's intended for.

--

@Karl Lavafeld I will be looking into making gold "rushing" less monotonous and more viable on different maps.

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On 7/21/2020 at 1:51 PM, MrXLink said:

Yes, this is intended behaviour. When looking at the way we're rewarding people, we need to take the following consequences into account:

  • Having no cap will have players with more time on their hands absolutely dominate the economy, game and progression. We want to avoid this.
  • Having a hard cap and linear gain will be completely fair, but will make people stop once they hit their limit
  • Having a soft cap will make the BFP gain less over time and may demotivate players anyway once their BFP rate for the day isn't worth it anymore

On top of that, we want to close the gap between constantly playing players by giving players who have work or can't play as much a bit of leeway to catch up to others. This is what causes the whole "refilling nets more BFP" scenario and is completely intentional. The reserve system is specifically designed to be an alteration to a softcap that accounts for lost time. This means that yes, based on playtime, those taking breaks get more BFP for their in-game time. However, in real time, those playing continuously will be able to gain more. It's important that, in order to earn the same amount of BFP (based on 1.5h sessions, 3h breaks, 280BFP) someone who would take breaks would have to take hours longer in real time than continuous players. This difference in time racks up fast, and sure, you can just do other things in the meantime, but to forcibly optimise this is quite tedious and a lot of grinding/minmaxing for frankly not a huge difference in BFP earned. If you were to "abuse" this system, you would have to willingly quit and wait every single time you play a game, which we assume few people will do. There are much more benefits to having players catch up and feeling more rewarded in that regard than there are drawbacks to the system not being perfectly linear and fair. We'd rather have some people optimise the hell out of this if they enjoy that than to give out too much market control too quickly, widen the gap or have zero reason to continue as opposed to "less". Compensation always comes at a cost; it's about whether the benefits outweigh it, and I consider that they do. So yes, this is intended, nonlinear and should be reasonably balanced to feel not as limiting to regular players and more empowering to those whom the system's intended for.

--

@Karl Lavafeld I will be looking into making gold "rushing" less monotonous and more viable on different maps.

MrXLink,

I understand your logic and in general it makes sense.

However, my concern is that it will reduce the incentive to play the game every day which will result in fewer players Online.

That would be bad because we don't have enough players as it is.

So I would like to propose adding a 10% chance (each day) where a player who plays for one hour could get a booster reward in addition to the other rewards.

I believe that this 10% chance to win a booster will encourage players (who can) to play every day.

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

UPDATE

Thank you all for your feedback and support so far, guardians of Nyn! We're pushing out an update coming soon that tackles some of the concerns that have been voiced regarding the changes in earning and spending BFP. Although on the long run everyone is able to earn more BFP and rewards than ever before, we get that 60 mins of playtime to complete the daily boost is a lot, especially for those who play daily and just want to get a couple of games in; those players seem to have been hit the hardest by the recent changes so we're going to adjust the system slightly to make BFP progression more bearable.

We are not aiming to return to a 30m daily timeframe as it would contrast too strongly with the reserve system and would put rewards out of tune with what we feel is a balanced way of earning game content, yet we don't want to string you around for an hour of in-game time either, so we're reducing the daily playtime to 45m, which should be about 2-3 PvE matches on average. The BFP payout will stay the same at 250BFP, and this also means that the reserve system will have slightly different (but barely notable) payouts after your dailies have been completed. This is quite a significant change and should help make the game more generous to those who have a short, daily timeframe. For those who don't; carry-over BFP and quests still remain in place, so you can catch up!

Secondly, we're making a very drastic and massive change to the new booster types. We've heard your feedback and evaluated the data on booster purchases and for what they award in cards, splash and pure boosters sure take a bit to grind for, which could result in disheartening moments if the booster you played for 3 days for to unlock turns out to not be what you expected or hoped for. Additionally, the auction hall has generally been a very unstable and easily controlled environment, and we want to make it more accessible for everyone to not only use the market but also to have a more comfortable option to get the card you want elsewhere. We're therefore significantly lowering the prices of dual-colour and pure boosters to 475BFP and 500BFP respectively, down from 700/1000. There will still be a small difference between each booster type, as you grab cards from notably smaller pools, but all booster types should be a lot closer within reach of most players. 

We are aware that both these changes will have massive consequences to SR's economy and we will closely monitor what happens to booster purchases and the Auction Hall in the meantime. We do think, though, that these changes will greatly improve the game's progression and overall experience and may bring the AH to a healthier state. The economy should be looking very different but will still be able to regulate itself, and we're excited to see where this will take us when it comes to earning content and having a good time spending BFP. With these changes in play on the longer run, if you were to complete 1 quest and earn your daily boost each day, you would be able to earn a booster; even more BFP to spend on a better booster or the AH if you continue on. This should feel a lot better to play with.

Finally, we will be adding legendary cards to all different boosters, thematically assigned to which booster suits them best from a lore perspective, so that legendary cards become more accessible. Moon, the Skylord of Shadow, may be found in Shadow-related boosters, for example. Amii Monument is an exception to this, more on that in a future update. On top of that, for those Fire/Frost and Shadow/Nature players who feel left out; rejoice! You will be able to purchase your very own booster types too at 475BFP. Want to know what each booster can give you so you can figure out your odds or what to aim for next? We'll implement a button that will show you what each booster may contain!

TL;DR

  • Reduced the time to earn your daily boost from 60m to 45m
  • Reduced the cost of 2-colour (splash) boosters from 700 to 475 BFP
  • Reduced the cost of single colour (pure) boosters from 1000 to 500 BFP
    • The regular, all-card booster price remains unchanged.
  • Added legendary cards to all faction boosters, thematically and as evenly distributed as possible. Amii Monument is exempt for now.
  • Added fire/frost and nature/shadow boosters
  • Added a booster lookup feature, allowing you to see what cards can be found in each booster

These changes will be live soon on the live game server, so keep an eye on our Discord announcements!

We're excited to see what effects these changes will bring to the table and how it may improve the game for you all. These changes seem small but have quite huge consequences, so it may take a bit to settle down. As always, your feedback is ever valuable and will be much appreciated! Thank you all for your continued support, we're heading ever closer to that sweet 1.0!

Stay frosty out there! Or feisty. Or down-to-earth... shady? Whatever it is, just be yourself and have fun in the forge!

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Very good changes, thank you. :)

Please consider carrying over unused booster discounts to the next day so we don't lose it as well as accumulating booster discounts for those of us who don't like to gamble our precious 350 BFP on buying a booster that may turn out to be a flop.

See suggestion:

 

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4 hours ago, MrXLink said:

guardians of Nyn

Damnit, that's the name of my MOBA map in development. :P

4 hours ago, MrXLink said:

We're therefore significantly lowering the prices of dual-colour and pure boosters to 475BFP and 500BFP respectively, down from 700/1000. There will still be a small difference between each booster type, as you grab cards from notably smaller pools, but all booster types should be a lot closer within reach of most players. 

Unexpectedly drastic change. Surely good for monitoring and testing, expect prices of most expensive card pool to drop and other rare card prises to rise, thus normalizing the most expensive card prices. My current rough and unbacked estimate for shadow cards is a pricedrop of 15-25%.

I'll comment on the prices during the next week, hopefully with some math to back it up. I'm following this topic with great interest. :D

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Small feedback on the booster art:

First of all, I love what you did with the new Amii and Frost/Fire boosters (please coin a name for the last nameless faction or make a pool/event/competition for the community to do so :D).
Secondly, while the new boosters and the single faction boosters show what's inside, older boosters fail misserably. Bandits, Twilight and even Stonekin booster art deserve an update sometime soon (I know this is low prio :P).

image.thumb.png.d6f12e7db94ef2cf9ca1e63bb4e167fd.png
 

About the booster content window:
I like that you're able to search for card and also that the fist cards shown are colourless/legendaries. Since ppl like to see primarily shiny and secondarily actual data I'd move promo cards even above colourless cards. And if it's not too much trouble add a dropdown to sort by either name or rarity

image.thumb.png.020bc3072865b137238cfb87e8173283.png

Edited by Mynoduesp
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older boosters fail misserably. Bandits, Twilight and even Stonekin booster art deserve an update

yikes, in their face, stonekin booster was just made for this ^^

secondly the booster art of bandits and twilight actually is twilight and renegade and originally resembles the edition!

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Didn't mean to be rude, was a bit harsh, you're right @LEBOVIN :^)

The booster pictures are without a doubt fitting and nice, but compared to Amii-boosters green/purple "Battle Forge" which tells you this cointains nature and shadow cards without even knowing the card that is printed on the booster. I should have elaborated that more clearly, my bad. x)

Edited by Mynoduesp
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/10/2020 at 1:11 PM, Mynoduesp said:

Small feedback on the booster art:

First of all, I love what you did with the new Amii and Frost/Fire boosters (please coin a name for the last nameless faction or make a pool/event/competition for the community to do so :D).
Secondly, while the new boosters and the single faction boosters show what's inside, older boosters fail misserably. Bandits, Twilight and even Stonekin booster art deserve an update sometime soon (I know this is low prio :P).

????????

What's wrong with the original artworks? They are OG, they are fine.

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