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  1. There is no need to do that, just take a look at what Volin (a truly experienced player who has a history of being objective and sound) wrote above which sums everything up quite well. For really difficult modes and speed Bata is dead as of now, end of story.
  2. Here is another voice stating Bata nerf was too much and agreeing with the comments by certain Skylords in this thread already on the current viability of these particular decks (and yes, there were multiple ways to play the former Bata, regular one with orb change to two shadow orbs, green peace or even a plague one, etc, very rarely it included a Nature start though...). Thanks to Windhunter above acknowledging the level 10 thing, because Bata to me is only really viable upto level 6 nowadays (after some unofficial personal biased testing yesterday), after that other deck types take over. So, on the most difficult maps (read a lot of LS, some Twilight, etc) other choices are now (much) better. On the replays shared above, to me Bata was cleary outperformed in the ones I checked, no question about it. Most evident one was the Grimvine + Fire Sphere combo, kinda funny to see really, Bata just dancing about as he has always done and BOOM, all of a sudden camp was cleared...and not by Bata. Some personal notes, I have a full deck library, 10% of this library are Bata decks, the rest are other non-Bata decks I played a lot too. So, Bata was only one part of the game before but gone nowadays and I am really sad one of the most fun ways to play this game is obsolete. I will keep the decks hoping he will some day reemerge to the burning Devil he once was...
  3. I wonder when the mods will come in and start moderating this thread? Maybe I should start being insulting and rude too? // Ponni
  4. Well, speak with newbies on the server, which I have done a lot, and it is from there I make these comments. They are not just stated because I would liked to have had all cards from the re-release day. Many I have spoken with are not around any longer...people won't spend weeks and months any longer which is needed to get anywhere in this game. You can accept this or not but the facts are the following: - Checked last night, 160 people online. - Boosters opened last two days, 3500 Ever so declining from the re-release day, expected, yes, but is it enough to keep the game at good terms with new players. I would say not. Again, for an experienced player (like you and me who now have all cards, for me after around 500 ingame hours) it is not a problem. But tell that to a newbie, yeah, after 2-4 months you can start to be competitive with 1 or 2 really good decks and after 6-12 months you have a full collection. They will just laugh and leave... As a final comment, we have left EA behind us since many years now and I dont understand why we still compare things with that time. Actually, to me it was better under the EA years because then you could progress faster if you wanted. Now everone (except us vets then...) needs to follow the holy slow path. // Ponni
  5. That is what they usually do in here in this particular subject, making assumptions look like truths. No real connection to how the game actually works and specifically then for new players. It takes too long for a new player to get into the game, period! But, this is how they want it to be and stick with it because of unclear reasons... Also just want to say this, for an experienced player this is usually not a problem, we know which cards initially are good to have in order to kick start things, but for a newbie it is a whole other story. // Ponni
  6. There is no point in arguing anything about this particular thing, eg. grinding like crazy until you get bored out of your senses and leave. It has been done multiple times in the past and still the devs and others claim this is the way to go, not realizing in the making we have lost a lot of potential new map breakers...but I give you kudos for trying! // Ponni
  7. Ponni

    Shrine of War

    Which existing cards today were you thinking on considering a bigger void pool? There arent that many existing today to my knowledge, only Time Vortex (shadow) and Backlash on top of my head...without checking card database details more... // Ponni
  8. Ponni


    Yeah, now we are talking! More gold to everyone!!
  9. Ponni


    Yes, quite normal with the fact that figure represents, a quick way for people to generate gold. If this map would not have been a gold farming map, how much would it really have been played? Most players would have turned to the next map which generates gold the fastest and easiest, until gold is no issue any longer. In the end I think it would have been equally difficult to find people to play this map even if Decomposer were to be "fixed". // Ponni
  10. Ponni


    Indeed, but not surprising, considering the main use of this map today, gold farming. I am actually surprised it was not a higher figure, Now there are still a lot of people trying to beat the map the good old-fashioned way! Thanks @Zyna will crunch the numbers as soon as my boss goes for lunch! // Ponni In rpve9 a lot of people are using Decomposer when at t2 or t3 to get power back for themselves, so a quick notion there is that it is not so surprising. In fact there people are using it as intended... // Ponni
  11. Ponni


    Will only respond to a few points from this mega post, because, well, my employeer will probably start to complain I am spending too much time in this forum. Arguing about what problem takes priority won't change anything about Decomposers issues. Also there are problems with both the reward system and this card that very clearly have nothing to do with one another. - Yeah, in multiple posts in here and in Discord you are talking about deflecting behaviors of others, in my opinion you are doing the exact same thing here. Not looking at things being tied together could and will cause unwanted side effects, like new players (and possibly old ones too) turning their interest away to something else... Also, I will continue to refer back to statistics until they are presented, then we will see how big the problem you want to resolve is. As I have stated before, once the statistics are presented I might even consider to swap sides in this discussion depending on the outcome. You might come out on top there then, I suggest you contact @Zyna and ask for this information and present it to us. Decomposer also doesn't really have anything to do with unit/building/spell focused decks. What it does is simply supercharge one player and whatever deck gets used. Nor is the existence of the current iteration of Decomposer necessary for people to learn and understand the game. - Well, it was simply an example trying to point out there are multiple ways to play the game. You want us to play it in fewer ways... As for wanting to dismiss Decomposer being a potential trouble maker in 2v2/3v3 PvP, I wonder where we should be inclined to make the cut-off point in terms of relevant population. Because if one were to argue that considering PvP in this matter is unimportant because it's just a small fraction of the community then the logical conclusion of that reasoning is that the handful of speedrunners that rely on Decomposer are equally negligible. After all, a repeat-argument is that if map rewards were changed then Decomposer would stop being a problem for regular play, retaining its status as a speedrunning tool. Which would mean it was solely preserved for a faction of the community. So, I'm unsure where that argument is supposed to lead us. Not so sure if mud slinging about authority is the thin ice we want to tread on. Plenty could be said there. - Indeed, while you are the expert and self appointed authority here then how should we do it? Destroy things for which community of players? It is an assumption, but I would say that the PvE speedrun community in itself is larger than most parts of the PvP community... // Ponni
  12. Ponni


    Well, I am pushing 300+ hours since re-release, opened ~250 boosters and I own ~420 cards, all fully upgraded (charges still missing of course for a lot of them) with 750000 gold to spare, no need to Decompose things any longer! // Ponni
  13. Ponni


    Again, account progression and map rewards are different issues that just happen to overlap with Decomposer. - No, everything is tied together. The "problems" we see now with Decomposer are only symptoms of a larger issue. Of course we could only pinpoint each and every issue by itself, but I do not believe that is the right way to do it. But if we then are to pin point every issue for itself then start from the other angle instead with rewards and progress mechanics of this game which is more urgent I believe. The problem with Decomposers function not being intended is just a small faction of the entire deal and not a main point. Although I highly doubt it would still be able to do what it does, had the game not faced an early decline and death. The question is what effects the card has. - Strangely then it always circle back to what is written on the card when discussing the points here. Anyway, we will never know what would have happened should the game have survived the terrible EA years. The second the Decomposer tactic is used a good chunk of the game (if not all of it) plays out significantly different to the point where it isn't even vaguely comparable to a strategy without it. Supercharging one player has huge ramifications. The fed player has much more agency in the round and can progress at a much faster rate. Meanwhile every point of energy transferred from the feeding players equals less agency for them. - Get some stats out in how many matches this card actually is played for a win and we could possibly have another direction of this discussion. Since orb-tiers function as force multipliers (every point of energy spent on a higher tier nets greater results) the boosted players power grows exponentially as they use their advantage to skip ahead. That reaches a point where one players performance vastly overshadows what otherwise could be done by the entire team without Decomposer. - Again these opinions on what the game is or what it is not...referring back to the point above, how much of a problem is it, is the card available in all decks all the time? It also interferes with two parts of the game that no other mechanic can: The starting power of each player is theirs alone and players cannot trade power they have acquired. - Who has told you that this is how it is supposed to work? Is there a manual or instruction that I have missed reading? This shows that the Decomposer tactic fundamentally warps the game when it is used. - Cannot argue on this as it is correct. It is so strong that even people that rely on it as a speedrunning tactic to achieve faster times on certain maps made the admission it's broken. But it is a tool that significantly boosts performance, so where things drift apart again is that some people want to keep it because its power is what they desire. A repeat argument is that some fastest times on multiplayer maps could no longer be achieved without Decomposer and by a big margin at that. So if that is true then there is absolutely no question about its excessive power. - I dont have all necessary information to way in on this one, but I suppose a four player setup on BH possibly could render a very fast time too, with one runner, one going T2 helping the runner out with certian things and two feeders/supporting figures of some sort, without Decomposer...there are 8 orbs in the starting area of BH and to my knowledge you only need 4 (or possibly 3 looking at the current fastest time?) to win the map. Something being too strong is also not always related to it seeing play everywhere and all the time, that's a misconception. Niche tactics can be unreasonably strong when their circumstances align. Because what matters is how it plays out when it can be utilized. Nobody would argue Enlightenment is a weak card because it can be used to prematurely summon Emberstriker or because it isn't very useful on maps where T3 and T4 are very close to one another. Or, just to illustrate the point further with a different example, say in a team VS team egoshooter players only buy cheap pistols in one round but a certain pistol is much more powerful than others. So despite this strong pistol not seeing use in rounds where all kinds of weapons can be bought, it's still too strong within its niche. - It is also a misconception calling out things being too strong actually being too strong, in game and in the forum there is this throwing OPs around you without really understanding the mechanics and practice needed to get things right. Not everyone will succeed in their first try with these strategies, not even their second try will be successful I dare to say. You need to invest a lot of time in order to perfect it for it to be successful and strong in the end. This notion on "everything is so easy with this and that", well, strangely enough then why do we only see a rare few people on top of the leaderboards? I understand not everyone wants to do the speedrunning stuff and they want to play their one deck. But, taking away things from people evolving the game is not really how I would consider things. Now, with Decomposer there comes this feeder/farming thing, meaning anyone can succeed completing a map just by spawning troops. But then I suppose we should stop the carry aspect which is there in pretty much every multiplayer map. I have played so many matches with people that I and usually one or two of my friends have carried to a victory, is that a bad thing? They have hopefully learnt something and the next run they do they might contribute more or even succeed on their own. You mostly measure its power by its effectiveness when there is an opportune situation to use it. Those circumstances being more plentiful only elevates an issue further. Similarly, while the Decomposer tactic cannot be used on singleplayer or maps where orbs (and their necessary force multiplier) are too far apart, when the situation allows for it, it provides power like nothing else. - Yes, it does. Additionally, all of that has to come with the consideration that Decomposer is a T1 card. That means that one of the most powerful tools in the game, that can entirely warp how a round plays out, and intersects with the fundamentals on how energy works between players, is available at the very moment you start a map. If you'd compare tactics within their respective niches is there anything even vaguely similar to the power the Decomposer tactic enables? The argument that finishing times for maps would be much slower implies not. - I have thought about this one too, however I do not see the problems like you that sharing power is a problem. To me, and others, its a feature. But, it is a very strong card for being a T1, agreed, there are others too though, like Motivate, Surge of Light and Suppression which in certain setups can turn the tide, but perhaps not as strong as Decomposer I grant you that. And, like I stated previously, the tactic can always find its way into average play and warp it with its power and influence. Attempting to preserve it by changing other things in the game to accommodate it would mean that it's still there, waiting to be a problem again. - Sure, however, I see no problems with that, to me the problems here (eg. the BH farming stuff) is a thing that over time will not be a problem any longer. With how the reward system is setup, as long as the gold is needed it will be a "problem". But, is it not natural that people also learn how things work and then fine tune their game getting better in understanding how things work? Do we not want newbies and others to grow in this game and get better? Also one thing I really want to mention here, not everything about this game is unit centric, there are so many combos you can do with buildings and spells. I have decks which are both, but most decks of mine tend to be spell centric with the support of buildings and units. Point then is there are multiple ways to play this game, which changes like this and others I fear might come is that in the end we all should build huge armies waiting at T4 for 5 mins before we start the end game. Not to mention it would always have to be considered when making future balancing/progression decisions. A repeatedly brought up concern is how PvP balancing limits and affects PvE balancing. But what about how a mechanic like this would unjustly limit design space on multiple fronts for the entire game? What can, cannot and must be changed because of how it would interact with this excessively strong mechanic is a question that will always have to be considered. And if something is missed the game is in shambles once more until that is addressed. - Referring back to the point above on stats for the use of this card, is it used in all matches played I can agree we have a problem, if it is only a fraction we will only try and solve a problem because of opinions. If it is somewhere in the middle we can continue this discussion. Finally, to touch on the aforementioned PvP again, it was already noted that Decomposer can be problematic in 2v2 and 3v3. Orbs are accessible from the start and therefore the force multiplier by one player ascending tiers faster could prove oppressive. It's simply not meta yet but that can change. - Now I will be extremely bold and post a very unpopular thing (referring back to the initial sentence of the start posting of this thread). Looking at the statistics, 0.8% of all multiplayer matches played PvP and PvE are 2v2 and 3v3, in fact, only 3% of all matches played in this game are PvP. I will then state I think we need to get our priorities straight here when it comes to what we should do sorting out "problems" in the game for whom. All of these problems have nothing to do with account progression and only with Decomposer. - Well, that is one opinion, my opinion is the opposite, a lot of things/problems cannot be separated from each other. // Ponni
  14. Ponni


    Absolutely, more players are needed and they need to stay. I truly believe a lot of new players also do not want grind, but then again I know about quite a lot of old players who really enjoy the grinding so it is not a labeling made easy...
  15. Ponni


    I have followed most of the discussion, both here and in Discord and from what I can see a lot of the comments come back to what is intended or not. Mostly then given what is written on the card. My comments on "intended" then is the opposite of this, just because that is not how the card actually works today, intended or not. I was simply (but perhaps a bit complicated) trying to state that the current way it works is not a problem, instead the problem for this discussion is the setup around how gold (mainly) is being farmed on the BH map, for example. Just to be clear, there is nothing to fix with Decomposer, it is a common misconception that recently has popped up because people do not want to spend hours and hours and hours getting somewhere in the game. Maybe we did in 2009, but that is a long time ago now... Otherwise I sort of agree with you, but it differs on a crucial part, I do not see any problems with things going quick in this game. I cannot understand why people want the ever so boring grinding activities to be a central feature of this game. Also, there are a limited set of maps, they are analysed to the extent that a lot of them are found to be broken. Changing card attributes will only do so little to "correct" this in the long run (for PvE that is then...). So, if focus instead could be on the real problems instead I would be happy, for example: - After the first few months of re-release hype, we are almost down to number of online people of the pre-reset era. - Grinding is not a key success factor of this game, I am quite certain it will scare people away. I have played with a lot of newbies which played a few weeks and then they have never been online again... - etc, etc, // Ponni
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