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Balancing the game  

252 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like us to do some balance changes before the release/wipe?

  2. 2. Where you prefere discusion about the proposed values to be



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Posted (edited)

As far as I know the only reason to not do any balance changes before release(wipe) is that it was promised a very long time ago.

There is few things I want to point out:

  • every change to cards invalidate all leader-boards
  • every change to cards make it difficult to run replays, EA make it so you can not open them at all

From my point of view doing changes now will limit these problems after release.

Some changes like changing HP, or cost of something are for me just 1 number, and I may even be able to keep replays compatibility with some background work for these changes, so my suggestion is to start with these changes now. (more complicated thing will not be included for now)

Before someone start asking why to do balance changes, if there are crashes, lost cards, etc. I try to explain it this way all these things are impossible to reproduce for me, so only source of information are players that experience them, and based on "https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScpTeA_Lv1b1M0imSel-B8UgYsP9evdmj-DiRQ-x1vAFwLZAw/viewform?usp=pp_url" most of players do not even say us when it happen :( so they are really hard to track without your help. Balance changes on the other hand mean for us "just" validate community decision and change 1 value.

 

https://discord.gg/GZKKMqH I do not think the results will change significantly without any progress, so here is the link to discord server that will be related to balancing the game. I decided for discord (as first try) because of the advanteges mentioned, mainly rules enforcing.

Edited by Kubik
new link to changes related discord
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I have no extensive knowledge of all the cards.
This way I don't know which ones really "need" some balancing.
However, I believe any such adjustments should be made as soon as possible, as this will allow us to test the changes during the beta.

And I also believe that any changes or voting for changes should be made here in the forum.

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The whole goal of this "reborn" project was to bring BF to life. You did it for 1P/2P/4P/rPvE/PvP maps and it's amazing. There are still 12P maps waiting to be added and then all expectations of BF being reborn are fulfilled. And from non-original functions you just had to revamp the economy system, because it isn't here anymore, so that change was actually the only non-original one that was necessary, since whole in-game progress is based on that.

But seriously - new cards, new stories, new maps? Well, that something that can be done in the future, but for what people are actually waiting right now, is possibility to finally play the game (not waiting for the wipe to happen).
And card balance? Was was that bad in the original game? Is it necessary currently to provide any updates to that, as when BF was live it had much more people playing and there wasn't any critical balance discussion? Who would also provide their vote to that - those ~100 playing on daily basis, mostly focused around PvP and rPvE?
And major question - do you, as developers, also feel confident to provide any balance changes or are you pushed by individuals just not liking playing against certain compositions?

Yeah, any change to cards will affect the leaderboards and replays - we know that, we're used to that, as that was exactly what was in original BF. Let us maybe play on a live server, with somehow bigger community and then a discussion whether any balance changed have to be done can occur. And that should be done after 12P maps are added, since we should attempt to balance cards as whole, for all maps and all game modes. So exactly as you put them on Trello - as "long-term goals".

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I see few problems with the forum, like messages are "big" 1 line or 10 lines take same amount of space, deleting messages is not possible, I can not have continuous scrolling, because of maximum posts per page, and most people is not on forum (they have account, but just to be able to log in to the game, they not going to forum). Discord on the other hand does not have these problems. I think forum is better suited for posting the results with reasoning rather that whole discussion.

Right now I do not think I want to go for a vote about card changes, a) there will be clear reasoning and decision, or b) it will need for some later time (not saying before/after release/wipe)

12p maps may maybe never come to be honest :( but that was already said multiple times.

"those ~100 playing on daily basis" did you mean 1000s, or playing at same time?

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The problem with any kind of change is that it will always be impossible to please Greeks and Trojans.
Always someone will be dissatisfied.
Opening a topic and asking for a vote for changes may be good, but anyone who "loses" the vote will be irritated.
"Maybe," one possibility would be for staff to evaluate internally what changes really should be made and just come here and post when they are made.
After such changes are made, stipulate a trial period and see if they have been well accepted by the community or not. And if the reception for them was good, keep them in the game.

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Posted (edited)

In terms of balancing in the PvP community I am pretty optimistic that we can come to a consensus on a lot of the changes while just letting the controversial stuff sit where it is for now. In the last year of Battleforge's balancing, MaranV, myself, and 1 or 2 other major English players were able to present agreed upon changes to most watchlists. The English forum's watchlist on homesoil is a great example where a number of us privately worked out an acceptable homesoil change that MaranV then posted to the forum. The entire rest of the watchlist was just people posting "I agree with MaranV's proposed change." Of course Phenomic then responded by releasing the current slapshod homesoil change that almost no one is happy with. I think these discussions are easier to have on the forum because you can go back and review what someone has said previously easier and long posts don't appear as walls of text.

In terms of current Devs making PvP changes, I'd prefer if they just deferred to the top players on issues to avoid more bad balancing like with homesoil and thugs. The current Devs have also made it pretty clear that they don't play PvP anyway.

Edited by WindHunter
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Hi, first of all I apologize for any grammar or spelling errors, I am not a native English speaker.

I would gladly appreciate some balance changes, and I agree with WindHunter, those changes should be discuss by the community. 

Top player have the widest point of view on the game's mechanics, and probably the biggest knowledge of the game as a whole, they are indeed better suited for balancing.

But I think we should not forget that not every player is as skilled as a top player and such, some card might only be overpowered when they are used in a very skillful way, and this aspect must not be overlooked when doing balance changes. 

As a first step, we should focus on buffing the obviously weak cards, those card that aren't played at all, by anyone. And i think asking to see players deck is a good way to outline which cards need some buff, let's progress slowly and don't rush on nerfing what's op right now, it would have too big of an impact on the game. 

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Posted (edited)

Changing Cards would make every Tactic for speedrun useless. Even if many players think this is a usless card, maby it es the only card speedrunsers can use for a map. If it need a balance then maby with new cards strong vs the "OP" cards (I belive there is no non-contercard, so the balancing is usless anyway). Shure there are stronger and weeker cards, but is there a game whitout?

 

 

Edited by wanky

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Posted (edited)

I am against committing to balance changes before a full release and all wipes/resets being done. You would be allocating your time and resources to this instead of actually getting the whole thing done. Even one hour of dev time spent on balance instead of release is a setback in my book.

I don't really care where dev time is spent after the game is launched and everyone gets to keep their progress. But release should be the absolute top priority right now. And diversion should be avoided.

As for balance changes overall: I am for separating PvP and PvE balance wise. These two modes are played so fundamentally different, they shouldn't be affecting each other. Basically, if balance changes are necessary in either PvP or PvE, ideally there should be a respective PvP and/or PvE version of a card that is appropriately adjusted. I assume the majority of balance changes would be PvP centered anyway. So I would hate to see PvE decks getting messed with because a card needs PvP changes. And vice versa ofc.

6 hours ago, Kubik said:

12p maps may maybe never come to be honest :( but that was already said multiple times.

12p maps were fucking awful in the original Battle Forge. Too many disconnects or player failures.

Would it be possible to "split" the 12p maps though? I don't know the name right now but one of them is just the same map three times. Would it be possible to just make it a 4p map by removing the 12p intersections?

As for the other one that is three intertwined maps, would it be possible to split that one into three 4p maps and just automate the events that depend on the (now gone) other maps? Basically hard-scripting them so people can just play one map.

Edited by Cocofang
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for the 12p maps, yes and yes, but do you know the events? I do not and that is the problem, they are just not there at all, or well hidden.

"Even one hour of dev" you maybe not read my first post so I rephrase it for you. Simple changes as cost, health, or damage, are numbers and to change numbers I do not need an hour, but more like a second.

"And diversion should be avoided." What exactly you expect me to do whole day at work and at home? Most of the time I am watching discord and forum if there is any new bug report, because I have no idea what cases these crashes, and without reports chance to somehow figure it out is very very small, because I did not see any crash, even thou some players claim they crash every match.

So @Cocofang I put it to "Planned before release" on https://trello.com/b/4HFfIUCA/skylords-reborn, but not to "In progress" because there is really nothing I can do without information.

I just decided to fix/improve as many things as possible before release, because I have nothing better to do right now, without informations.

based on https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScpTeA_Lv1b1M0imSel-B8UgYsP9evdmj-DiRQ-x1vAFwLZAw/viewform?usp=pp_url over 80% players crashes, but I get logs from 3 people in last 4 weeks (most of them was not related to these crashes).

If you have any suggestion how to proceed feel free to share it, you obviously do not like my idea to solve balance issues that could get here some more players that will hopefully reports the problems.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kubik said:

There are only 2 cards that is not played in at leas 150 decks, santa(without abilities) and egg.

Does the game db keep a deck log? or something like this?
Or ... is this kind of information obtained through the players?
I am not doubting this information. It is just a doubt.


Edit 1.0: Is there a way to know the most used cards?
Like a "top 10"?

Edited by Upoo
More questions.

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1 hour ago, Kubik said:

[...]

So I looked up the names for the 12p maps. I can't even remember if there were any noteworthy cross-map events for Passage to Darkness. The only thing I distinctly remember is that everyone had to sit around and do nothing if the players of another map were slower. There was some weird thing that made it so you called extra enemies to your map to help the others? I can't remember too well. Possibly because it was such a non-factor. Maybe the map is even perfectly playable without these events. And if they were just additional enemy spawns, could just set these to a timer.

Ascension was a bit more complex, I only remember some bits. Would it be possible to reconstruct those events from scratch? Maybe through old videos. But were they even that important? It's quite possible that they can be replaced with some somewhat similar scripted enemy spawns.

I recon a big turnoff for many people (I include myself here) is that their progress will be wiped so they hold off on getting too invested. I guess the project is in a difficult spot right now. There aren't enough people to report issues but it's also not very attractive to start playing now. While at the same time a "full release" while crashes and bugs are still notable would be a bad look as well. I'd assume people aren't all that used to being needed for bug reports because communities are usually big enough for someone else to pick up the slack.

Sucks that the whole thing is pretty much at a stand still because of that. Well, if really nothing else is on the table and a release is hard to justify with the current state of the game might as well try something else to get people involved, like balance changes.

However, I would make sure people are really aware that every bit of help is direly needed. Right now when I log into the game I see the "Here be bugs!" notice that I would assume is mostly skipped over and that's it. So, if there are barely any reports to begin with I would loosen up the requirement to check if a bug already got reported or not. I think many people encounter some bug or crash and would like to report it but think to themselves "Eh ... I don't want to dig through all kinds of reports first ... and it probably got reported already anyway."

I would create a big, to-the-point pop-up that everyone sees when they log into the game. Something like "Please take a moment and report ANY kind of bug and crash you encounter on the official forums. Without your help, further development is impossible!" And a direct link to the forums. After each game there could also be a massage popping up reading "Encountered any issues (crashes, bugs, etc.) during or after this game? Please take a moment and report them on the official forums. Without your help, further development is impossible!"

Reminding people and keeping them constantly aware can help.

Also, let people skip the part where they have to check if a bug was reported already. If no reports come in otherwise, just let them post everything. Remove as many possible hurdles for communication as possible. Maybe it's even worth it to develop a rough in-game solution for reports. A quick form they can fill out. Make it as simple and fast as possible. I would argue getting people to report at all, even if many reports are not usable or repeats, is better than getting no reports. Try to get quantity going and lower the standards for quality.

I think even the "How To Report Bugs - TEMPLATE INSIDE" post is too intimidating for someone just trying to give some quick info. I would make this post much shorter and strip it down to the bare necessities. Severity for example is a comparatively huge paragraph that I would say is pretty unnecessary. The first paragraph too. A post that can be skimmed and understood at a glace would be much, much better.

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9 hours ago, pabi said:

And card balance? Was was that bad in the original game?

Relatively. in 2013 it was better than 2009, but only because it was made better step by step.

8 hours ago, Upoo said:

The problem with any kind of change is that it will always be impossible to please Greeks and Trojans.

Sometimes the Greeks are 95 % of players, then we should consider making 5% a little less happy for the greater good. This is how it was always done in the history of Battleforge balancing.

5 hours ago, WindHunter said:

I'd prefer if they just deferred to the top players on issues

Me, too. But not necessarily topplayer by rank, but moreso by rank and the ability to explain things and have a balance discussion. Some topplayers views on balance are straight simpleminded.

3 hours ago, wanky said:

Changing Cards would make every Tactic for speedrun useless.

So if we nerf cursewell for example every tactic for speedruns is useless? You're dramatising. Some tactics would become useless, some would be created. But the overlap between speedrun - and pvp cards isn't as big as you want ot make it seem.

3 hours ago, Narrokk said:

But I think we should not forget that not every player is as skilled as a top player and such, some card might only be overpowered when they are used in a very skillful way, and this aspect must not be overlooked when doing balance changes.

Historically balancing in BF was always done regarding toplevel play, wich makes sense cause this is where games are decided mostly by deckstrength and not bad decisions, micro mistakes and missing knowledge. It would also be impossible to balance cards for all skilllevels. It's literally easier to learn how to build the right deck, watch replays of topplayers and train then to have every card balanced to your skillevel.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

So I looked up the names for the 12p maps. I can't even remember if there were any noteworthy cross-map events for Passage to Darkness. The only thing I distinctly remember is that everyone had to sit around and do nothing if the players of another map were slower. There was some weird thing that made it so you called extra enemies to your map to help the others? I can't remember too well. Possibly because it was such a non-factor. Maybe the map is even perfectly playable without these events. And if they were just additional enemy spawns, could just set these to a timer. 

Ascension was a bit more complex, I only remember some bits. Would it be possible to reconstruct those events from scratch? Maybe through old videos. But were they even that important? It's quite possible that they can be replaced with some somewhat similar scripted enemy spawns.

 

Afaik Passage to darkness had 2 mechanics that influence the other maps.
Firstly one map could get some kind of"curse" (don't remember the exact name). Essentially what happens is that in set time intervals you get damaged by the map itself. This effect was by default on map 1 but there was a switch on one of the players t1 camps that was able to switch that effect to their respective map.
Secondly you had to destroy certain shrines (5 in total) on the map that would spawn aberrations (lost Souls units - either Lost Warlord or Lost Dragon) on the other maps. To win the gameyou had to destroy all aberrations and shrines on all 3 maps.
The spawnpoints were fixed, not quite sure about if there was a fixed respawn time or if it was determined by certain map events. There was a maximum of 10 aberrations that could spawn on each map (5 from each of ther 2 maps shrines). Afaik the spawn points were linked to the shrines of other maps and not random at one of the 4(?) spawn locations - i dont believe there were five locations weirdly; would have to double check if im right though.
Ascension is indeed much more complex and varied in its mechanics, but i do not remember any of it. Maybe someone who played that map a lot, would be able to help out with that.

I feel like Balance changes are justified and in some cases necassary. Either by buffing near useless cards or tuning down a few of the ones that are a bit (or much) too good.
I would agree on the sentiment that certain players with a lot of game knowledge should be asked too help with working out viable balance changes to avoid messing up the game too much as was mentioned before in this thread and multiple times across the years. Imo the focus should be mainly on PvP, but PvE should at least have a few player representatives as well to get a good grasp on possible effects on certain maps or strategies. Obviously the composition of players for each "patch" and/or card could change as a pure PvP card probably only needs 1 PvE player to make sure there is no huge abuseability on some PvE map. If there is a greater overlap you would probably want to have closer to a 50/50 distribution while for pure PvE cards you would probably want the reverse for case 1. I would assume having a certain "pool" of players would be beneficial and then building small task forces of 4-6 players would be optimal in theory. That obviously depends on availability and motivation, so i guess only time will tell what sizzes would be optimal for a discussion as it is after all a bunch of work and not everyone's willing to put that time into essentially a change that the devs will MAYBE implement. At least in theory a great concept though.

In regards to leaderboards - if no card was changed that was used within the replay on the leaderboards the record should stay valid. Ingame would be preferable for that as i would guess that that is much more easy to check than via forums as those replays are not publicly available for the majority of it.
There was a tool in the past with which you could watch replays from past patches as long as no cards that were changed during a patch were used within that replay! Not sure if anyone has that one lying on his PC, but that might help.
Iirc a replay was nothing else but the game/AI doing every command you gave at the exact same time by itself and you being able to watch it, instead of an actual recording of your gameplay.
Not sure if this helps in any way for this though


 

Edited by Treim
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2222 people does not seem to me like not enough to report bugs, they just do not do it :(

I actually maybe did not read the template ever :thinking: it was written by MrXLink even before I know about this project. (his standards are bit high in that regard)

We already created channel on https://discordapp.com/channels/173414671678832640/594960703417483277 for reporting bugs

I tried once to spam players with report bugs requests, when I was tracking specific bug and I know when (from code point of view) it happen, but I have no idea when it is from user point of view. after about a week I set up counter so I know how many of these messages players get, I know it was a lot, I see them in logs, with player name, so I message few of them that was getting these messages but so far no answer from them, now it is about 10 months without answer. It was running about 2 more weeks with counters untill I finally get first report, day after that second one and it got fixed. Some players get over 30 messages on screen saying "PLEASE REPORT how you get....". total numbers was something like over 6000 of players get over 100000 of these messages during the two weeks when they were there with counters, but I got only 2 reports, and it took just few minutes to reproduce and fix it. After that multiple players said to us that we finally fixed the spammy messages :( So I do not know how I can make it more obvious than posting multiple messages to players screens on each log in, do you?

We tested 12p maps they do not have any problems other than players can not affect players on other maps in any way (which is kinda important for them) :(

@Treim of course I will want someone from PvE part of community to validate the proposed changes, and you are first on my list to ask, if (based on the votes so far more likely "when") I do it :) and I am not sure if to use forum or Discord yet.

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8 minutes ago, Kubik said:

2222 people does not seem to me like not enough to report bugs, they just do not do it :(

I actually maybe did not read the template ever :thinking: it was written by MrXLink even before I know about this project. (his standards are bit high in that regard)

We already created channel on https://discordapp.com/channels/173414671678832640/594960703417483277 for reporting bugs

I tried once to spam players with report bugs requests, when I was tracking specific bug and I know when (from code point of view) it happen, but I have no idea when it is from user point of view. after about a week I set up counter so I know how many of these messages players get, I know it was a lot, I see them in logs, with player name, so I message few of them that was getting these messages but so far no answer from them, now it is about 10 months without answer. It was running about 2 more weeks with counters untill I finally get first report, day after that second one and it got fixed. Some players get over 30 messages on screen saying "PLEASE REPORT how you get....". total numbers was something like over 6000 of players get over 100000 of these messages during the two weeks when they were there with counters, but I got only 2 reports, and it took just few minutes to reproduce and fix it. After that multiple players said to us that we finally fixed the spammy messages :( So I do not know how I can make it more obvious than posting multiple messages to players screens on each log in, do you?

We tested 12p maps they do not have any problems other than players can not affect players on other maps in any way (which is kinda important for them) :(

@Treim of course I will want someone from PvE part of community to validate the proposed changes, and you are first on my list to ask, if (based on the votes so far more likely "when") I do it :) and I am not sure if to use forum or Discord yet. 

Just to be clear I did NOT propose for me to be in that circle. I think there are better candidates to ask in terms of balance like e.g. MentalOmega (or whatever he is called now). I am after all a highly specialized player which may be helpful in certain situations and mostly worthless in others.
 

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2 minutes ago, Kubik said:

2222 people does not seem to me like not enough to report bugs, they just do not do it :(

I actually maybe did not read the template ever :thinking: it was written by MrXLink even before I know about this project. (his standards are bit high in that regard)

We already created channel on https://discordapp.com/channels/173414671678832640/594960703417483277 for reporting bugs

I tried once to spam players with report bugs requests, when I was tracking specific bug and I know when (from code point of view) it happen, but I have no idea when it is from user point of view. after about a week I set up counter so I know how many of these messages players get, I know it was a lot, I see them in logs, with player name, so I message few of them that was getting these messages but so far no answer from them, now it is about 10 months without answer. It was running about 2 more weeks with counters untill I finally get first report, day after that second one and it got fixed. Some players get over 30 messages on screen saying "PLEASE REPORT how you get....". total numbers was something like over 6000 of players get over 100000 of these messages during the two weeks when they were there with counters, but I got only 2 reports, and it took just few minutes to reproduce and fix it. After that multiple players said to us that we finally fixed the spammy messages :( So I do not know how I can make it more obvious than posting multiple messages to players screens on each log in, do you?

All you can do in that case is to make bug reports easier and faster to do. Remove all unnecessary barriers with the priority of maximizing the amount of reports you get. Maybe building an in-game bug report system is worth it. It could even go as far as to reduce the amount someone has to type. Just present them with a bunch of drop-down menus where they can choose from a couple of options and just a "Additional details" box below. If the number of reports are the main issue, lower the standards for reports and make them as accessible as possible. And even if it is spammy, a notification box popping up on screen to remind people of the importance of bug reports might be necessary.

2 minutes ago, Kubik said:

We tested 12p maps they do not have any problems other than players can not affect players on other maps in any way (which is kinda important for them) :(

I don't think that is important. At all. In fact I would argue that the biggest DOWNSIDE to these maps was the fact that you had to play them as a team of 12. The only time I ever felt like the interactions were noticeable was when some other map messed up. When everyone did their jobs you didn't even feel the cooperation. So actually having to deal with the consequences of whatever was going on on another map was a purely negative experience. It was just a shitton of trouble with all the DCs and waiting around. I remember just spamming the entire map full with buildings because we were waiting for another map to finish. It was a waste of time.

It never really worked. It never really felt like 12 players working together. And even finding 12 players to play was a pain sometimes. A lot of the time people would play one map solo to cut waiting times. DCs were a big problem. I think the maps would be MUCH better if they were simply 4p maps.

I would really suggest simply replacing the "interactive" events with hard-scripted ones and splitting the two 12p maps into four separate 4p maps.

2 minutes ago, Kubik said:

of course I will want someone from PvE part of community to validate the proposed changes, and you are first on my list to ask, if (based on the votes so far more likely "when") I do it :) and I am not sure if to use forum or Discord yet.

Is it not possible to balance cards for PvE and PvP separately? The needs of both modes are vastly different. Adjusting one card for one of them specifically could completely messy it up in the other. Can't a card hold two versions of itself, one with PvP adjustments and one with PvE ones? Maybe you could tick a box when creating a deck. When you check "PvP", you would get versions of the cards with the respective PvP adjustments. Otherwise the cards have the PvE adjustments.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, wanky said:

Changing Cards would make every Tactic for speedrun useless. Even if many players think this is a usless card, maby it es the only card speedrunsers can use for a map. If it need a balance then maby with new cards strong vs the "OP" cards (I belive there is no non-contercard, so the balancing is usless anyway). Shure there are stronger and weeker cards, but is there a game whitout?

 

 

This is absolutely nonsense.

As a experienced speedrunner, normal pve and rpve player and top 10 pvp player in 1v1 and top 5 in 2v2 i can say its fact that every possible and very needed change for pvp as for example: Mortarnerf, phasetowernerf, netherwarp (green) glitchfix, thugsnerf, cursed well, Altar of Nihil, voidstorm and so on, does absolutely NOT affect any of the speedrun tactics. Every speedrun tactic on every map is absolutely still doable with any cardchanges for pvp.

The PvP scene needs some big balancing changes. The speedrun scene needs exactly 0 balancing changes.

 

In clearly most of the competitive pvp games the pvp has the absolute highest balancing priority. This should also count to battleforge. If not than the game cant be taken serious belonging to the word "competitive" and overall this would be catastrophical. This i am saying as an ESL (esportleague) player but also as an passionate speedrunner and pve player. 

 

Ofcourse there are stronger and weaker cards in every game but in pvp there have to be cards, combinations and deck variations that have to be nearly equal to each other. Because of some broken cards two colours arent really competitive in pvp: Nature and Frost t1. Nearly every competitive player plays fire or shadow t1. For a "competitive" pvp mode this is absolutely catastrophical.

 

The pvp needs balancing changes big time and now.

Edited by Deldrimor
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1 hour ago, Deldrimor said:

 Every speedrun tactic on every map is absolutely still doable with any cardchanges for pvp.

I strongly disagree. At best I would like a pvp only balancing for existing cards. Keeping EVERYTHING as it is for pve, not just supposedly everything. 

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17 hours ago, pabi said:

The whole goal of this "reborn" project was to bring BF to life. You did it for 1P/2P/4P/rPvE/PvP maps and it's amazing. There are still 12P maps waiting to be added and then all expectations of BF being reborn are fulfilled. And from non-original functions you just had to revamp the economy system, because it isn't here anymore, so that change was actually the only non-original one that was necessary, since whole in-game progress is based on that.

But seriously - new cards, new stories, new maps? Well, that something that can be done in the future, but for what people are actually waiting right now, is possibility to finally play the game (not waiting for the wipe to happen).
And card balance? Was was that bad in the original game? Is it necessary currently to provide any updates to that, as when BF was live it had much more people playing and there wasn't any critical balance discussion? Who would also provide their vote to that - those ~100 playing on daily basis, mostly focused around PvP and rPvE?
And major question - do you, as developers, also feel confident to provide any balance changes or are you pushed by individuals just not liking playing against certain compositions?

Yeah, any change to cards will affect the leaderboards and replays - we know that, we're used to that, as that was exactly what was in original BF. Let us maybe play on a live server, with somehow bigger community and then a discussion whether any balance changed have to be done can occur. And that should be done after 12P maps are added, since we should attempt to balance cards as whole, for all maps and all game modes. So exactly as you put them on Trello - as "long-term goals".

Agree

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@nofearek9

11 hours ago, Kubik said:

for the 12p maps, yes and yes, but do you know the events? I do not and that is the problem, they are just not there at all, or well hidden. 

 

8 hours ago, Kubik said:

We tested 12p maps they do not have any problems other than players can not affect players on other maps in any way (which is kinda important for them) :(

 

@Treim :thinking: I never heard that name "MentalOmega" is he active on forum, or on discord?

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