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Karl Lavafeld

nerf amii monument

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Hi all,

i make it short.

Amii monument needs to be nerfed. It binds less power then a regular monument. So its allways better in pve to build an amii monument then a regular monument, and u dont have to clear the regular monument and u dont need t3 units at all. Like it is now imho its like cheat. Even if it would cost  500 to build it plus activation cost 300 people would still play it. I suggest to make the energy costs like this.

Pls take it into consideration for after the final release.

Kind Regards

Edited by Karl Lavafeld
Loriens likes this

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The nerf wasnt enough. As i sayd how can it be cheaper then a normal monument.

To make it more obvious ... then make it cost 1 energy and make it give u 3 orbs. then u can t1 build it and u are t4.

If u not want u not have to play it.  :-)

 

Its not cheat but OP too the max.

 

Edited by Karl Lavafeld

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Amii monument is pure cheese. Honestly, it was just a cash grab for people who were serious about speed runs. Along with cards such as Curse Well, I don't think Amii Monument should exist at all. Either that or make it come with a heavy penalty.

Really, the argument that it was "already nerfed" is more than weak. There were cards in this game that received several nerfs (Lost Grigori comes to my mind) because of this reason. And just because a card was nerfed/buffed doesn't mean anything. The balancing handling of EA phenomic was a mixed bag. With more resources and time there is so much you can improve in the balance of the game.

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since its a pve card that will not effect the game of other players ,as said above dont use it.no need to destroy others players game cause you dont like a card

Edited by wertyy

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By that logic you could just create a card that requires 500 power in t4 and instantly ends the game. Not a viable PvP card and therefor shouldn‘t be an issue right?

It is however bad game design and Amii Monument falls in that same category. The card completely and fundamentaly changes the way the game and therefor maps are played while having no drawbacks except that you have to use a deck slot on it. 

The card is broken on so many levels that i can not fathom how Phenomic ever thought the card being fine as it is.

Bad game/card design should be enough reason to change cards even if they not necassarily effect other players directly

ImaginaryNumb3r likes this

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13 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Amii monument is pure cheese. Honestly, it was just a cash grab for people who were serious about speed runs. Along with cards such as Curse Well, I don't think Amii Monument should exist at all. Either that or make it come with a heavy penalty.

Really, the argument that it was "already nerfed" is more than weak. There were cards in this game that received several nerfs (Lost Grigori comes to my mind) because of this reason. And just because a card was nerfed/buffed doesn't mean anything. The balancing handling of EA phenomic was a mixed bag. With more resources and time there is so much you can improve in the balance of the game.

I agree that curse well should be straight up deleted or must cost like 400 energy. The enemy loose 100 energy permanently for 150 energy but u will get 90%(?) back to void so its. u loose 15 energy permanent the enemy loose 100. 

 

The amii monument takes 1 slot, but it saves u several slots cause u not need t3 cards.

Kind regards

Edited by Karl Lavafeld

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4 hours ago, Karl Lavafeld said:

The amii monument takes 1 slot, but it saves u several slots cause u not need t3 cards.

That depends on your deck build as there are decks that dont take more or less units in t3 regardless of playing amii monument
That is mostly true for splashes that play 2 shadow orbs in t3. You probably will use Frenetic Assault and Infect regardless of playing Amii Monument and additionally probably also use Cultist Master for void manipulation. Those 3 cards are a perfectly able to clear any t4 as well and i actually run it like that.
I know it is exceedingle rare people use that setup but that makes the slot technically still a downside - however minor it is :P

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Absolutely right - Ami Monument and Enlightment deserves nerf. These cards shouldn’t be deleted from the game completely, because it's always bad to cut off existing strategies from the game.
Mb Devs should add temporary option for Amii monument - for example:

It gives orb only for 20 seconds. Charge time is 60 seconds. No void power back. Only one for map is available.

Or just make it cost more. Last option isn’t interesting though. I think Devs as professional players can come up with better ideas.
Same for Cursed Well 15 energy loose vs 100 and +1. Very lame.


Many cards require rebalance - for example Shadow and LS has a lot of OP cards, while Nature really suffers in PvP in T1 (that was my main reason to leave old BF). T2 is balanced better, I admit. Shadow has some OP cards for PvE too - everyone knows them. This faction idea was to be risky but in fact it's the easiest, even newbie player with some experience in RTS can notice that's "risking" shadow cards are easier to play. In the meantime real risk is Nature and Frost t1 in PvP. In PvE Shadow has so many options too and LSS was designed by Phenomics only for more microtransactions.
Game balance between cards was designed very badly. I know - there is no chance to make game absolutely balanced, especially cards based game, but now it's very far away from OP Protoss Fleet balance in SC2.

Edited by Loriens

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If balancing doesn't matter in pve, I want a global spell in t1 that deals 50000 dmg to every pve unit and building. Nobody should complain about that I guess. After all you don't have to play that card if you actual want to play the game, don't you?

Back then I had the idea to make Amii Monument t4 and I still think that's the way to go. It may sound useless but when you even reduce it's costs, there are several strategies you can use it in. You can use amii monument to make a fifth orb and therefore play card combination that are normally impossible to play. It would be pretty much like enlightment but a permanent version with less orb-freedom.

Edited by Chibiterasu
Hirooo and ImaginaryNumb3r like this

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41 minutes ago, Chibiterasu said:

If balancing doesn't matter in pve, I want a global spell in t1 that deals 50000 dmg to every pve unit and building. Nobody should complain about that I guess. After all you don't have to play that card if you actual want to play the game, don't you?

Back then I had the idea to make Amii Monument t4 and I still think that's the way to go. It may sound useless but when you even reduce it's costs, there are several strategies you can use it in. You can use amii monument to make a fifth orb and therefore play card combination that are normally impossible to play. It would be pretty much like enlightment but a permanent version with less orb-freedom.

Nailed it on both points.

To add a little supporting information, good game designers recognize that when a gamer is choosing which game to play, they ask "What is fun?" When they are actually in-game, they ask "What will succeed?" When players are given a superior strategy that also happens to be less fun, they rarely analyze it and choose the more fun path. They're more likely to choose the more effective path then end up having less fun. That's why cheat codes are less of a thing than they used to be--game designers realized that gamers were ruining their own experiences. If a designer doesn't have a better understanding of fun than their average player, then they shouldn't be a designer.

Personally, I love the idea of making it 4-orb. It opens up powerful combos like Batariel + Regrowth without cutting tier 3 out of the game.

 

SunWu II., Treim, Loriens and 1 other like this

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10 hours ago, Chibiterasu said:

If balancing doesn't matter in pve, I want a global spell in t1 that deals 50000 dmg to every pve unit and building. Nobody should complain about that I guess. After all you don't have to play that card if you actual want to play the game, don't you?

Back then I had the idea to make Amii Monument t4 and I still think that's the way to go. It may sound useless but when you even reduce it's costs, there are several strategies you can use it in. You can use amii monument to make a fifth orb and therefore play card combination that are normally impossible to play. It would be pretty much like enlightment but a permanent version with less orb-freedom.

+1

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nobody said pve dont need balancing BUT he want to destroy a card and make it complete useless, cause he believe now that is overpowered.this will not solve the problem.

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1 hour ago, wertyy said:

nobody said pve dont need balancing BUT he want to destroy a card and make it complete useless, cause he believe now that is overpowered.this will not solve the problem.

The card is not overpowered, it's broken. If a card is underpowered/overpowered you can just adjust some stats to make it balanced. If a card is broken by design, you can't just fix it that easily. Amii Monument completely circumvents the tech-system in the game and does not play along the usual rules of the game.

Treim likes this

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if i remember the cost is more than a normal t4 monument but this card save you time, deck slots and you can attack the normal t4 with t4 cards

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5 hours ago, Killer92 said:

if i remember the cost is more than a normal t4 monument but this card save you time, deck slots and you can attack the normal t4 with t4 cards

Depends on how you see it. The building costs 250 energy + 140 to choose an orb (on U3). Which means 126 energy go back into the void. This leaves you with a true cost of 264 bound/lost energy. The card is just absurd.

Thinking about it, I would say an initial cooldown of 3-5 minutes would be enough to "balance" the card, along with a base cost of 300e. For pve speedruns, that would probably render Amii Monument a fringe tactic for certain maps. For rpve it would become mostly redundant since time is crucial. In return, the ability cost should come down to ~50e.

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if you dont like dont use it

thats the best solution

i like it because it allows versatiltiy in my decks, a Twilight deck for example that can actually use a Juggernaut or Fire Dragon, hell even a Thunder Wagon or Abyssal Warder without having to sacrifice the T4 Twilight units like Abomination or Skycatcher, without Monument i wouldnt be able to use T3 or T4 cards that have a color requirement of 3 orbs

for me its mostly for adding more units, buildings or spells to my T4 so that my deck is capable of doing alot more things, but i still use some T3 units because they can still be useful, even in a T4 army

Edited by Lavos2018
wertyy and nofearek9 like this

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1 hour ago, Lavos2018 said:

if you dont like dont use it

thats the best solution

i like it because it allows versatiltiy in my decks, a Twilight deck for example that can actually use a Juggernaut or Fire Dragon, hell even a Thunder Wagon or Abyssal Warder without having to sacrifice the T4 Twilight units like Abomination or Skycatcher, without Monument i wouldnt be able to use T3 or T4 cards that have a color requirement of 3 orbs

for me its mostly for adding more units, buildings or spells to my T4 so that my deck is capable of doing alot more things, but i still use some T3 units because they can still be useful, even in a T4 army

Well then changing it to a 4 orb card shouldn't be any issue. You can still do use all the 5 orb decks but the cards doesn't break the game pre t4.

Loriens likes this

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2 hours ago, Lavos2018 said:

if you dont like dont use it

thats the best solution

This exact statement has already been addressed previously. It's a non solution.

2 hours ago, Lavos2018 said:

i like it because it allows versatiltiy in my decks, a Twilight deck for example that can actually use a Juggernaut or Fire Dragon, hell even a Thunder Wagon or Abyssal Warder without having to sacrifice the T4 Twilight units like Abomination or Skycatcher, without Monument i wouldnt be able to use T3 or T4 cards that have a color requirement of 3 orbs

for me its mostly for adding more units, buildings or spells to my T4 so that my deck is capable of doing alot more things, but i still use some T3 units because they can still be useful, even in a T4 army

You mean... just like Enlightenment? And if you just want greater T4 variety, there shouldn't be a problem with making it T4.

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Sure Amii Monument is a very usefull Card, but i mainly see the issue in Speedruns. pve and rpve is easy anyways as soon as you reach t3 you have so many cheap tactics. So for me Amii Monument is more like a convenience card for casual player to save time and not really one of the worst cards right now. I think there are other cards that not only save time but can make some situations just cheap like Void manipulation cards (Just spam the shit out of spells and dont fear disadvantages, the easy comeback card if you fail) 

Lavos2018 likes this

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