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About ImaginaryNumb3r

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    South Western Wastes
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    Raiding, pillaging, killing, chilling

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  1. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Batariel/Fire Deck PVE

    If I may suggest an alternative, I think 3 x Fire, 1 x Nature is a good combination as well. You can play a mostly pure-fire deck with cards such as Fire Dragon, Thunder Wagon, Cluster Explosion or Fire Sphere. But you also get some great splash cards such as Regrowth, Breeding Grounds, Giant Wyrm or Grimvine. Especially with Fire Dragon you will be able to deal extremely high damage, but it is very fragile. However, this can be overcome with some nature CC or heals. Furthermore, most of the units mentioned above have a high power cost, but that can be mitigated with Breeding Grounds. The only thing you are missing are really missing is Batariel. But I think Batariel works best with nature support and is best summoned with Enlightenment.
  2. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    This is brilliant, we can take this even one step further to improve the game. So let's do the same with Enlightenment. Make it T2, 400 power, one nature orb. Someone feels that T2 isn't enough for him, and can allow to spend 400 power to nuke the board with T4 units? Take some useless T2 cards and actually boost them for at least matching their rarity (yes, Ice Age, Lost Shade, Mountain Rowdy, Vileblood, Banditos, Twilight Curse, Lost Priest, Revenant's Blessing, ALL Lost Souls actually, I'm talking about them). It doesn't matter that this will lead to an unending power spike, unevenly distributed throughout all factions. Because on the other side, we don't even need to balance T3 cards. All that needs to be done is doing cosmetic changes and don't address broken cards. See? Everybody wins. Indeed, there are many replies from both sides but I can only see one side actually putting forth some arguments. Note that "just leave it", "why you hate Amii Monument?" or "let everybody play how they want" don't exactly count as arguments it. They are just personal statements or questions. While other, more in-depth, reasoning (such as made by Treim) could still require some counter arguments. Note, I hope not to hurt anybody's feelings with this post. I would prefer this topic to be elevated to a more objective level, without personal assumption about the other person's emotional state. It also feels somewhat unfair if well thought-out posts are completely ignored. It is a lot of work to explain why certain cards become problematic from an overarching perspective, as this is a complex game with many factors involved.
  3. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Analysis: The problems and implications of player progression

    I am not sure if I was clear enough with my explanation, in fact I am strictly against splitting rewards between game modes. My agenda was to have the two pve modes (missions/rpve) have differently resource distribution. If we go into this, we should also see this from two perspectives: "Playing for fun" and "playing for rewards". If you play for fun, rewards are secondary and you just play to test a deck/enjoy yourself. One game mode shouldn't be clearly superior to the other one, as this potentially lowers your motivation to play what you want (I assume that was what you were afraid of?). What I wanted to address was "playing for rewards", since with just one upgrade resource you always have one game mode that is more efficient than the other mode. Which is exactly the current situation where grinding rpve is pretty much the only way to upgrade your deck to higher levels. This was why I suggested 2 upgrade resources with different purposes. Therefore, different game modes can utilize a different distribution of resources so one game mode does not become clearly superior to the other if you are just in for the grind. And if you are doing grinding, it is nice to have some variety in what you are doing. Again, this should not affect "fun play". The only constant in rewards should be that more difficult tasks should be more rewarding. Starting with medium difficulties you are always rewarded with two resources anyway. So, you are always rewarded with both resources anyway and if you want to grind just one game mode, you can do that as well. But my reasoning for two resources goes deeper. First, there is a difference weather you want to try out a completely new deck or "finish" upgrading a high level deck. If you already have a good deck, making another decent one should not be a chore. Players should be encouraged to make decks with different colour combinations, which requires consecutive decks to be easier to achieve. Therefore, making a new "decent" deck should be achievable in very reasonable time. Now, if we take into account that the bulk of most decks consist of commons/uncommons, these low-tier cards should be relatively easy to upgrade. Low-tier cards only cost gold, which should be awarded somewhat generously. The more challenging part of turning a "decent" (deck level 45-70) deck into a nearly finished one (level 100+). I also agree that clearing the whole campaign is kinda pointless. The story is scattered and in the end, you are left with nothing more than the start. Some missions are really nice, especially 2 player missions on expert, but those are exceptions. I havent had the time to talk about achievements, but clearing the campaign on standard/advanced/expert should yield you some generous rewards. Especially clearing the campaign on expert requires some true dedication that absolutely needs to be rewarded. This also applies to other kinds of dedication, but achievements should also promote trying out new combintions/colours. In the end, the most content of the game is hidden in the cards and any progress/reward/motivational system must resolve around trying new things. Of course, this also requires changes to balancing (as mentioned, it are mostly some key and core cards which deck building is reolved around). This split in resource is also psychologically motivated. Because even if you are grinding for the premium upgrade resource (I call them tokens, but it could be anything) you still get some gold, that potentially encourages upgrading other cards which could promote experimentation with different cards/colours. And from the perspective of the devs, seperate resources allows for better income balance and fine tuning. And since new players are mostly concerned with gold, while (supposedly) regular/hardcore players are more interested in tokens the devs have a good mechanism for control to control the rewards for either groups independently. On top of that, I truely would like to get rid of the level restriction for upgrading high level cards on ultra rares. Getting EXP is an obnoxious process that mostly resolves around grinding Bad Harvest (with people who potentially have no idea what they are doing), or just playing rpve 24/7. I think a premium resource that is directly awarded instead of a hard-limit for high-tier cards is a more tangable approach for subjective player progression. Higher player levels should should award you with rewards for being a dedicated player. They shouldnt serve as hard limits to upgrade cards that a deck could absolutely depend on.
  4. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Analysis: The problems and implications of player progression

    @DarcReaver I think we agree that tedious grinding must not be a requirement to play the game. Personally, I like playing rpve occassionally because it's quick to do and getting some rewards is a nice motivator for daily quests. Without it, I had left the game right after I finished the campaign, as there is little point in creating a deck that you don't end up using since you know the campaign already. Most games nowadays feature a "leveling system", and upgrades are no different to that. On one side, it has almost became an expected mechanic for new players and on the other hand it is a good motivator to keep playing, especially with additional rewards such as quests or achievements. Unfortunately, upgrades are the closest mechanic we got in regards to a leveling/progression system as collecting cards itself is only a shallow feature. I also don't think that upgrades are terrible as a mechanic, it only becomes tedious once you are forced to do repetitive grinding. As I said in the introductory post, the progression system and the game itself was a consequence of the time it was released in + corporate need for naive monetization. You just absolutely need to have some kind of "subjective progression" in place and collection cards just doesn't cut it. Which is what this thread is about. If the game was only about cards, there is literally nothing left to do once you are done creating 2-3 interesting colour combinations. A core problem is that, at the end of the day Battleforge has very little content. Even pvp combat in itself is somewhat shallow compared to other RTS games that are around. I see random generated content as one of the most promising aspects for the future of the game. This exceeds the notion of "Battlegrounds" and could potentially result in tower defense missions with random encounters/map elements, escort missions, objective based random maps or an attack/defend game mode that is built around waves. Also, you are absolutely right that, in reality, Battleforge gets nowhere close to the 400 potential cards that it has. There are a few "must have" cards, several strong ones and many that are just "ok". However, the bulk of cards will never be in a deck because they are too situational, too weak or utterly redundant. Improved balancing absolutely is something from which the game would benefit tremendously (pvp and pve alike). But both, balance and upgrades are topics for other threads, ultimately this topic is about player progression.
  5. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    You have to quote me on that, I merely wish for it to be balanced. What I said was that I regret it being introduced in the first place, that is a semantic difference. The thing is that balance matters, even in pve. I am not sure if you have read the other posts in this thread, but Treim made a really nice post about this:
  6. ImaginaryNumb3r

    The Bandit's guide to pve

    @ManGa it absolutely is a top tier deck. As a general note, I was writing this summary when I couldn't access to the game. But now that I figured out things again rpve is a true breeze, even against Lost Souls. Glad I sparked some interest in this deck. I think I will rewrite some units to make it a bit more concise and add some extra infos to it. Also, your observation on Thugs is absolutely spot on. I still prefer Nomads in pve, but in rpve Thugs truely shine. It's not only the power generation, but also the anti-S that is an absolute boon.
  7. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    This exact statement has already been addressed previously. It's a non solution. You mean... just like Enlightenment? And if you just want greater T4 variety, there shouldn't be a problem with making it T4.
  8. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    Depends on how you see it. The building costs 250 energy + 140 to choose an orb (on U3). Which means 126 energy go back into the void. This leaves you with a true cost of 264 bound/lost energy. The card is just absurd. Thinking about it, I would say an initial cooldown of 3-5 minutes would be enough to "balance" the card, along with a base cost of 300e. For pve speedruns, that would probably render Amii Monument a fringe tactic for certain maps. For rpve it would become mostly redundant since time is crucial. In return, the ability cost should come down to ~50e.
  9. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    The card is not overpowered, it's broken. If a card is underpowered/overpowered you can just adjust some stats to make it balanced. If a card is broken by design, you can't just fix it that easily. Amii Monument completely circumvents the tech-system in the game and does not play along the usual rules of the game.
  10. ImaginaryNumb3r

    nerf amii monument

    Amii monument is pure cheese. Honestly, it was just a cash grab for people who were serious about speed runs. Along with cards such as Curse Well, I don't think Amii Monument should exist at all. Either that or make it come with a heavy penalty. Really, the argument that it was "already nerfed" is more than weak. There were cards in this game that received several nerfs (Lost Grigori comes to my mind) because of this reason. And just because a card was nerfed/buffed doesn't mean anything. The balancing handling of EA phenomic was a mixed bag. With more resources and time there is so much you can improve in the balance of the game.
  11. Thanks, that was insightful. I thought it was unfair that bandit T3 cards were so easily available to everyone but I never saw it from the LS player's perspective. Actually, there was also a toxic tactic in T2 where you could reliably bring down a well once it reached a certain HP threshold. Summon a NC with Rallying Banner, frenzy it and cast Warrior's Death. Nothing is gonna kill that NC and it will deal 1500 ATK. Only works against non frost splashes, though. It's not much, but I considered it worth mentioning. Naturally, I agree on the transformation. I don't even think it was designed for pvp, I see the transformation as a pure pve mechanic as it essentially is a diet version of breeding grounds. I mean, potentially it could be interesting for pvp too, but first it requires Twilight units to be worth a slot. Personally, I still like to play Fire/Nature and I find the Twilight Minion transform ability really alluring (damage bonus for nearby units). Perhaps it would be worth playing if Minions costed 50 (42 power to transform). Another thought I find interesting is changing a unit like Minions into a Deathglider (assuming both would be good cards and you need an s-counter). You can easily re-purpose units and gain a void power advantage. This is just speculation and the example is an edge case, but I find the concept really interesting.
  12. Slightly offtopic: I think comparing Twilight to Bandit is a bit unfair. Apart from Windhunter and Warrior's Death, "Bandits" mostly consist of Fire/Shadow which has terrible synergy (unlike Fire/Nature). Also, Vileblood was quite popular before it was (over)nerfed and Twilight Brute is a decent unit as well. As for the strong Bandit T3, that mostly came from Sandstorm and Soulhunter. However, Sandstorm was nerfed into oblivion and Soulhunter was also popular for Lost Souls players who went for a fire orb in T3. I think most Twilight units could become viable (and potentially incredibly strong) with some small changes. On the other hand, Bandit T2 cards have catastrophic weaknesses, are bugged or have their role overshadowed by other cards.
  13. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Nature/shadow ideas

    Mephisto has pretty much stated the way to go. Personally, I would start the dck with nature, as this allows you to use Ensnaring Roots and Surge of Light in later tiers. I liked playing Shadow/Nature myself and I found the best T4 unit to be Death Ray. You can constantly use Leech to power Death Ray's guns and heal up your own units with Regrowth in the mean time. Grimvine serves as a tank that serves as HP pool and Giant Wyrm makes a powerful L-counter. I can also recommend Healing Gardens if you want to maximize your Regrowth for situations where you need it.
  14. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Analysis: The problems and implications of player progression

    Without upgrades you completely remove the necessity for rpve. Sure, some'll keep doing it because it can be fun. But in the long term it's just repetitive. I used to play rpve for fun in the original Battleforge, but somehow it's just not as rewarding as it used to be. I also can't spend my time as freely as I could in the past. I think the incentive should move towards playing different kinds of decks, where the main motivations are bonuses and unique rewards from achievements. However, for this to work more cards need to be viable so the meta doesn't resolve around some must-have cards. Upgrades should still be part of the game-loop. Still having upgrades would give you three possible motivations to do pvp/rpve/missions: for fun, reaching upgrades and working towards achievements. In general, upgrades are only required for higher-level play and don't affect casual players. Also, upgrades are not necessary for low-level play so it's not a problem having them either. The only part of the game that is affected by upgrades is pvp, but with premade decks this problem would mostly go away as well.
  15. ImaginaryNumb3r

    Analysis: The problems and implications of player progression

    @Eirias I think no matter what, composed decks are a good mechanic to serve pvp. I am not sure how this would be implemented the best way, but I think the tinkering can be done later on. Lately, I was thinking about a more sophisticated reward and proggression system. So far we've talked about rewards and progression as one topic, but I think they should be separated. I see rewards as a short term motivator, while the progression is a long term motivator. "Progression" can also mean something entirely different to a casual player than it is to a dedicated player. In general, I think we should consider 3 player types, which concern pvp and pve alike: Casual Regular Dedicated I'm not going to define these roles and expect everybody to have a firm grasp what these roles mean (to keep it short). Player Progression From personal experience, I'd say the lifespan of a player involves the following aspects: Gather new cards. To test out new cards and make the best of the cards you currently have. Enhance your deck. You work towards a deck of your liking and upgrade your first common/uncommon cards. Harden your deck. You acquire more specialized/exotic cards and apply more charges. You buy U3 upgrades and start upgrading rare cards. Finalize your deck. U3 on rare cards, upgrading ultra-rare cards. (Collect). Create decks of different colours and do further experimentation. Achievements should also incentivise playing/collecting different kinds of decks. Of course, in reality you usually have multiple decks for different purposes. However, you usually have a "core set of cards", which your decks resolve around. This is also just a generalization, but I do think it roughly reflect usual player progression. Progression Implications Now, we cannot do anything about the progress (1-5) of a player. We can lower the player rewards so it is more difficult for players to progress, but without a tangible feeling of progression I'm afraid that people feel like they are stuck in the game and are subject to repetitive grinding. I'd greatly advocate that the game employs different mechanics for the following rewards: Aquiring new cards (enhance your deck) Upgrade low level cards, meaning U3 on commons/uncommons (harden your deck) Upgrade high level cards, meaning U3 on rares/ultra-rares. (finalize your deck) In reality, we already have 3 different resources in the game which apply to the reward mechanics above. Each resource also has its own source of income. BFP from quests and selling boosters Gold from finishing rpve Exp from doing campaign missions Now, grinding campaign missions for Exp is not a good mechanic. To upgrade ultra-rare cards you must have rank 9/10/11, otherwise you cannot progress. You are subject to an artificial barrier that forces you to grind missions. This is exactly what should be avoided. However, campaign missions must still be included in the lifespan of a player, otherwise content would go to waste. Also, I am not counting card upgrades which you get from campaign missions, as they aren't reliable. They too should be reworked, but that's another topic. Progression Suggestion My primary suggestion is a new resource to upgrade high-level cards. This resource acts as a "premium" resource in addition to the "common" resource, which is gold. Some decks absolutely need upgrades (and especially charges!) on ultra-rare cards to make them viable. This hits pvp and more exotic decks in particular. Going back to the original BF, I'd reinstall a "token resource" as an additional resource (to clarify, just one type of token). These tokens are be earned at the places where you usually gain lots of exp. Advantages: No artificial barrier. If you want to upgrade high level cards you can do so by playing the according modes. It is very clear what to do. Tangable feeling of progression. Instead of unlocking all high-level cards at once you upgrade your cards one by one. Better control for the devs. The rewards and requirements of tokens can easily be changed and tweaked. Possible suggestion for upgrade resources: Common: 125/625/1,250 gold + 0 tokens Uncommon: 375/1,250/2,000 gold + 0/1/2 tokens Rare: 1,000/2,500/5,000 gold + 2/5/7 tokens Ultra-Rare: 2,000/4,750/10,000 gold + 7/9/12 As rewards for tokens, I thought of the following: Missions: 1 for standard, 3 for advanced, 6 for expert. rPvE: 1 token for rpve 9. 3 tokens for rpve 10. PvP: Depending on the rating, but potentially generous. Of course, this is just a draft, don't take it too literal. But I hope to have given a good insight my thinking why the game could greatly benefit by having a a "common" and a "premium" resource for upgrading. At higher levels of play, gold should be given out in masses so you can upgrade a quantity of low level cards relatively fasts (which promotes trying out new cards). Tokens are also only a concern for the higher levels of play so we can take different resource balancing into account. Therefore, the devs have direct control over how fast a dedicated player is progressing with finalizing his deck vs. how fast a casual player progresses in enhancing his deck. On top, pvp should provide a generous amount of Gold and Tokens alike to make it easier to upgrade. Upgrades are most crucual to pvp and this would also provide an incentive to play pvp. This is just covering the progression system. I've also been thinking about some more concrete mechanics for a better reward and achivement system. Depending on the feedback, I'll be making a separate post for this later on. The game has a very rich combination of content and progression mechanics. It would be an utter waste not to exploit all of its aspects.

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