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Buddelmuddels suggestions for the game


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Hi,

 

so now my suggestions for the game. I usually dont like to make suggestions, because then they get implemetnted and i dont get payed, like the honer ranked system in league of legends. But this game is free so lets see:

 

Economy suggestion:

1. Card value:

For a while get rid of the rare, uncommen commen restriction. In a booster you get 8 random cards. Then you list for which prices cards are on average traded. Then you have a price list. Then you make top 20% rare, 20-50% uncommen, and lower 50% commen. In each booster you put: 2 rare, 3 uncommen, and 5 commens.

 

2. Starting cards:

When you start the game you can choose a cholor: From this colour you get all the cards and all the upgrades, they cant be traded. Additionally you get 5 boosters. This is your pve start

- PVP start, you get 2 colours with all the cards and all the upgrades. Every 2 weeks one of the colours changes to another 1. They cant be traded and can only be used for pvp.

 

3. Card changes:

Change every 4 colour 4 orb cards to 3 colour orbs.

Additionally you will have an 4 orb healing, protection card in every colour, less powerful and more complicated tehn green but still there.

- red: Bloodthirst, all units in a 25m radius get healed when they are in battle up to 4000 Lifepoints

-black: Blood healing, 4 orbs, target looses lives, heals all units around it up to 4000 Lifepoints

blue: 4orb area ice shield, 25m radius, gives a shield up to 3000 points

 

4. lvl 10 rpve:

Look through all the lvl 10 rpve maps, and order them in 3 more lvls, lvl 10-12

 

Little tweaks:

5. Change amii monumentand enlightment to 4 orbs cards

6. Offer the possibility to pay bfps to have your deck shown in the speedruns

7. Show if someone is looking for opponents in ranked pvp

8. Offer 2 different kinds Tome decks, for Pve and Pvp: 1. Random preprepared decks

                                                                               2. Totally random cards: PvE: 2 colours, 5 cards, from each orb lvl

                                                                                                                  PVP: 2 colours, 6 cards from t1,t2,t3, 2 cards t4

9. Show in the friendlist, how long the battleground game of a person still lasts

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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Why should popular/strong cards become rare and unpopular/weak cards become common? Makes it even harder to get a good deck at the start and everyone will accumulate even bigger piles of cards he doesnt use. The only reason i can think of to implement such a system would be generating more money wich isnt an option for SR. Getting new players on the other hand is an aim, wich this sytem wouldn't help at all.

From the beginning the relation of card strength and card raritiy had been rather random, but i think that's just because the original developers had no idea wich cards are actually stronger than others. I wonder if the rarity system does any good at all these days where profit doesnt play a role. Maybe there's some psychology behind it wich lets the ,,collector'' type of player get more enjoyment out of the game this way, i don't know. For me it's an (in skylords reborn case) outdated money making mechanism wich confuses some new players cause they think rare = strong.

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20 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

Hi,

 

so now my suggestions for the game. I usually dont like to make suggestions, because then they get implemetnted and i dont get payed, like the honer ranked system in league of legends. But this game is free so lets see:

Irrelevant. Get down from your high horse. Don’t act like you are some kind of Messias every game needs to have.

20 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

Economy suggestion:

1. Card value:

For a while get rid of the rare, uncommen commen restriction. In a booster you get 8 random cards. Then you list for which prices cards are on average traded. Then you have a price list. Then you make top 20% rare, 20-50% uncommen, and lower 50% commen. In each booster you put: 2 rare, 3 uncommen, and 5 commens.

This is a terrible idea: 

1. your math is wrong: 2+3+5=10 not 8

2. i think the devs have better stuff to do than implementing such a system that obviously won’ t work. As an Example: prices develop dynamically so after reset when the highly demanded t1 cards get sold for way more than most of the other cards, your idea sucks because the chance of these cards dropping in a booster will be even smaller than it is with the current booster system. 

20 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

2. Starting cards:

- PVP start, you get 2 colours with all the cards and all the upgrades. Every 2 weeks one of the colours changes to another 1. They cant be traded and can only be used for pvp.

To the PvP start idea: if you would have followed the recent events you would have noticed that there is an other idea which gives every player access to every PvP deck for ranked at deck level 120. 

20 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

3. Card changes:

Change every 4 colour 4 orb cards to 3 colour orbs.

Additionally you will have an 4 orb healing, protection card in every colour, less powerful and more complicated tehn green but still there.

- red: Bloodthirst, all units in a 25m radius get healed when they are in battle up to 4000 Lifepoints

-black: Blood healing, 4 orbs, target looses lives, heals all units around it up to 4000 Lifepoints

blue: 4orb area ice shield, 25m radius, gives a shield up to 3000 points

 

Belongs to balance discord where such ideas are already discussed. 

20 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

 

4. lvl 10 rpve:

Look through all the lvl 10 rpve maps, and order them in 3 more lvls, lvl 10-12

Great idea! You can start by checking all seeds for battlegrounds for their "true" difficulty level yourself.

conclusion: Don‘t act like you are able to fix problems of this game with 4 bad ideas in which you put no research in. 

Regards 

BlueBerryBoy

 

fiki574, Eddio, Damo and 3 others like this
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Posted (edited)

So, first of all, ty that somebody looked through it, and posted their opinion in valuable manner. Had this in the meantime a little different too.

Lets look into it:

6 hours ago, SunWu II. said:

Why should popular/strong cards become rare and unpopular/weak cards become common? Makes it even harder to get a good deck at the start and everyone will accumulate even bigger piles of cards he doesnt use. The only reason i can think of to implement such a system would be generating more money wich isnt an option for SR. Getting new players on the other hand is an aim, wich this sytem wouldn't help at all.

From the beginning the relation of card strength and card raritiy had been rather random, but i think that's just because the original developers had no idea wich cards are actually stronger than others. I wonder if the rarity system does any good at all these days where profit doesnt play a role. Maybe there's some psychology behind it wich lets the ,,collector'' type of player get more enjoyment out of the game this way, i don't know. For me it's an (in skylords reborn case) outdated money making mechanism wich confuses some new players cause they think rare = strong.

I dont believe that, for me its very frustrating to open a booster and get oracle mask or earthen strength or plague. With the idea I offered you would get a valuable card for sure, even 2 actually. Tho only card i can think of that would go up in price is shaman, because for an umcommen card, he is really expensive.

 

1 hour ago, Farinavas said:

1. your math is wrong: 2+3+5=10 not 8

True, wasn't sure when i wrote it, if 8 or 10, doesn't matter i believe

 

1 hour ago, Farinavas said:

To the PvP start idea: if you would have followed the recent events you would have noticed that there is an other idea which gives every player access to every PvP deck for ranked at deck level 120. 

I did read that, although i have not read everything. I do believe that a strong part of the game  and other games is collecting cards, although it should be prevented that the start is boring. Here i played like 50 -70 games, mostly 1 per day just get off my boring starting deck. And if I play more, then there was no development, therefore it would be even more boring. The more playing part is addressed in the new booster system. The start would be still boring. Like someone said, it would be good to have at least 3 different decks that you can differ to. Atm it is fun for me cause i have these deck, and when i get new cards I'm happy because i can build more, but I dont need them necessarily to not get bored.

 

1 hour ago, Farinavas said:

Great idea! You can start by checking all seeds for battlegrounds for their "true" difficulty level yourself.

  I actually would do that. I did offer in a post which i mentioned before the beta opened the way I would do it. There are different categories of lvl 10 maps, within each fraction map. Those I would sort. The time it would take is approximatly 1,5h and I would do that. Atm i wait 15 mins for a lvl 10 game, and after a few games it would be worth it.

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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1 hour ago, Buddelmuddel said:

So, first of all, ty that somebody looked through it, and posted their opinion in valuable manner. Had this in the meantime a little different too.

If you want to thank us that someone read your proposal and made the research that you obviously did not do, then you are welcome ... why would you propose something that you did not look into???

1 hour ago, Buddelmuddel said:

I dont believe that, for me its very frustrating to open a booster and get oracle mask or earthen strength or plague. With the idea I offered you would get a valuable card for sure, even 2 actually. Tho only card i can think of that would go up in price is shaman, because for an umcommen card, he is really expensive.

Are you for real?? Read this quote below again and pay attention (or were you not able to count to 2) 

why would shaman go up in price he is one of the cards thats worth the most even tho he is bad. Do you even have an idea how many cards are in the game and how much the top 20% priced cards cost? I guess you do not. Stop throwing random numbers and „facts“ around and defending this idea because its just bad. 

1 hour ago, Buddelmuddel said:

2. i think the devs have better stuff to do than implementing such a system that obviously won’ t work. As an Example: prices develop dynamically so after reset when the highly demanded t1 cards get sold for way more than most of the other cards, your idea sucks because the chance of these cards dropping in a booster will be even smaller than it is with the current booster system. 

 

1 hour ago, Buddelmuddel said:

I did read that, although i have not read everything. I do believe that a strong part of the game  and other games is collecting cards, although it should be prevented that the start is boring. Here i played like 50 -70 games, mostly 1 per day just get off my boring starting deck. And if I play more, then there was no development, therefore it would be even more boring. The more playing part is addressed in the new booster system. The start would be still boring. Like someone said, it would be good to have at least 3 different decks that you can differ to. Atm it is fun for me cause i have these deck, and when i get new cards I'm happy because i can build more, but I dont need them necessarily to not get bored.

It is your own fault if you tell us you played 1 game each day and didn‘t progress: there ist the daily boost which requires 60 minutes of playtime (the daily booster before which required 30 minutes of ingame time)

The start is boring and no one can really change that if the game wants to have a healthy economy over a long time. 
 

1 hour ago, Buddelmuddel said:

I actually would do that. I did offer in a post which i mentioned before the beta opened the way I would do it. There are different categories of lvl 10 maps, within each fraction map. Those I would sort. The time it would take is approximatly 1,5h and I would do that. Atm i wait 15 mins for a lvl 10 game, and after a few games it would be worth it.

Another proposition where you have no idea what you are talking about. 
Thanks to Kubik i do not need to comment on this any further

56 minutes ago, Kubik said:

:thinking: how exactly you @Buddelmuddel plan to sort 196605 maps in 1,5h? And why exactly you did not do it already? You can generate all of them with editor.


Just because the forum offers you a platform to make your absurd suggestions, doesn't mean that you should use this opportunity. And stop making up random numbers that support your argumentation in the situational context, which on closer inspection are completely valueless

Regards

BlueBerryBoy

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1 hour ago, Kubik said:

:thinking: how exactly you @Buddelmuddel plan to sort 196605 maps in 1,5h? And why exactly you did not do it already? You can generate all of them with editor.

Well i only categorize the 4 player maps, and onlylvl 10 maps except when there is a strong demand for 1 or 2 player maps. But i think 4 player map would be enjoyable to play for a lot of players.

And are there really 196695 maps? I would believe this is the number for all rpve maps.

On 4p lvl 10, after you played like 100 maps they seem very similar, maybe some with some slight changes, but generally the same.

I have not used the editor:

So when i sort them, this would be an idea you would consider to use?

34 minutes ago, Farinavas said:

If you want to thank us that someone read your proposal and made the research that you obviously did not do, then you are welcome ... why would you propose something that you did not look into???

Are you for real?? Read this quote below again and pay attention (or were you not able to count to 2) 

why would shaman go up in price he is one of the cards thats worth the most even tho he is bad. Do you even have an idea how many cards are in the game and how much the top 20% priced cards cost? I guess you do not. Stop throwing random numbers and „facts“ around and defending this idea because its just bad. 

 

It is your own fault if you tell us you played 1 game each day and didn‘t progress: there ist the daily boost which requires 60 minutes of playtime (the daily booster before which required 30 minutes of ingame time)

The start is boring and no one can really change that if the game wants to have a healthy economy over a long time. 
 

Another proposition where you have no idea what you are talking about. 
Thanks to Kubik i do not need to comment on this any further


Just because the forum offers you a platform to make your absurd suggestions, doesn't mean that you should use this opportunity. And stop making up random numbers that support your argumentation in the situational context, which on closer inspection are completely valueless

Regards

BlueBerryBoy

Well this comment does not seem to be so constructive anymore. Think there is no need to answer to it

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and 196605 = 65535 * 3
where 3 is  for 1p 2p 4p rPvE maps because all 3 of them have difficulty 10 and 65535 are all possible seeds (maximum value of 16 bit unsigned inteager - 1 because 0 is not allowed as seed)

if you would want other difficulties you can multiply it by 10 (each difficulty have its own maps)

if you want all presets that are present, but are not available under SR (and was not under EA) then you can multiply it by 10 (only 1 preset per seed is picked)

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the idea behind the 2nd point sounds interesting. but honestly, I think every other suggestion is not good at all. mit to say: devastive

for example, having 10 different levels in rpve is allready to much. who plays all these?

making the top wanted cards (those who costs the most) all rare would rise their prices even more. very, very bad.

droping every card from tier 4 to 3 would destroy the current meta (for sure, a new one will rise, but at which cost?). besides that, pve would get much easier. on second thought, you most probsply ment to change one orb to colourless. but which colour to take from cards like Lost Dragon? why do you want so much extra secutity?

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Ok, so again some constructive reply, i glady answer to this:

11 hours ago, Flrbb said:

for example, having 10 different levels in rpve is allready to much. who plays all these?

This is true. Thing when i started out i played like 3 times lvl 5, 2 times lvl 7, and then about 500 games of lvl 9. For lvl 9 only 2 players are needed, so 2 can get carried, expecially with the multi wheeling back in the time. So for me lvl 9 is done, and it was about 4 month beofre the original battleforge closed.

Then i started to play lvl 10 regularly. It take about 15 mins to get a game, and it is very helpful to have some people around you who regularly play it like: kybaka, sirtegethof, tinuvien, and now ponni and benina. if you wait for 2 more the time drops from 15 to about 5 mins. 

So in short for me there only needed to be lvl 1, 5, 7, 9, and then more.

I would splitt lvl 10 in 3 difficulty lvls, with the lowest one would be beatable for everyone who suffisticated in lvl 9. No bosses on t3, t4, no t3 camps, no close t3, t4 and no vigils on lost souls at t1. 

The next 2 lvls would be more difficult, and the last one only for the hard core players who need a challenge. Additionally i would probably keep the full random lvl 10. But like Kubik suggested i will start to sort them, and make like 100 lvl of each new difficutly to start off.

11 hours ago, Flrbb said:

making the top wanted cards (those who costs the most) all rare would rise their prices even more. very, very bad.

Not sure if I wrote it wrong in the beginning, but who gets this idea? There would be no ultra rare cards anymore, and they seem to cost the most in the ah. Then there would be 2 rares each booster, so you get more of the valuable cards, and you wont get a low cost card for your rare in the booster so every rare is a winner. Additionally you could change the rarity of individual cards if you see that they essential to the game. For example regrowth. So i would rather have an ultracommen category then an ultra rare category.

11 hours ago, Flrbb said:

droping every card from tier 4 to 3 would destroy the current meta (for sure, a new one will rise, but at which cost?). besides that, pve would get much easier. on second thought, you most probsply ment to change one orb to colourless. but which colour to take from cards like Lost Dragon? why do you want so much extra secutity?

Again, not sure if i worte it wrong but thats not what i meant, nor what i hopefully wrote. Every t4 card would stay t4. But the 4 colour cards would change from 4 to 3 coulours. Cards like Moloch or lost warlord, twiligh grimvine thingy, are just seen to little in the game. I would like to see more different cards, and this would help. Additionally the change to the healing cards, because atm you nearly need green. Some make a deck with out it but they have to play very careful.

Now i finished reading your second sentence. I nearly have never seen a lost dragon, why if lost spirit ships are so much better. I would take away 1 black from him. Just because double black is played to often, and it would but some incentive to double blue.

 

 

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each fraction allread has its own sort of healing. Bloodhealing for shadow, minor heals for fire (because .. hey, its agressive fire, not save n' secure nature) and blue has shields and a shrine and spells for damage reduction. Also, each fraction could stand near a building.....

Edited by Flrbb
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I love the enthusiasm of comunity member like you @Buddelmuddel but as much as I appreciate you for bringing in fresh ideas, I cannot see any reason why Skylords reborn should implement one of your suggestions: (following I'll reply to your points 1 to 4)

1. There's a lot to lern here from experienced game designers such as the guys at wizards of the coast who are not flawless in designing Magic the gathering, but I'd say they're making a good job. I just recently linked to an article about "why do bad cards exist" and I cannot reccomend anyone who's interested to take a look at their design philosophy. Bad cards exist, this includes bad mythics (ultra rares in MtG), and does not exclude commons from beeing overpowered.
From a new players point of view your suggestions makes total sence: Rare equal pricy. But you actualy worsen the problem by additionaly limiting the supply of high demanded cards which will result in a fuckload of players abandoning the game immediately after checking the price of that sweet Shaman (a.e.). If you think im talking boogus here, there's a better example: Infect.

2. This is - somewhat - reasonable. I'm not a perfect human either, I like free stuff as much as anyone else. I thinks someone mentioned it already but the devs are preparing preset, fully upgraded PvP decks to even out the playing field in PvP.
I'd love to see the same pricipal applied to PvE too, we're stuck with a pretty terrible Tutorial deck (which can be used to beat expert maps, but it's one hell of a struggle). But when thinking about it more carefully, why should anyone chase a selfmade deck for maybe a hundred hours if the only difference are 3 cards in the deck...? There's no point to it and almost noone is willing to pay such a high price for that little effect. I'd say its about the same amount of players who bought a promo card in this open beta, thats quite few compared to the playerbase.
Anyways, to be a bit more constructive, I'd like to see 2, 4 or even 6 preset PvE decks for players to try out PvE, but the decks wont have any upgrades, include only 15 cards and are deliberatly not perfectly drafted.

3. Change is good, right? Yes, to a certain point.
This suggestion can be made in an alpha phase of a game, there is no point to discuss here. I feel like you're the Bradford 'CertainlyT' Wenban of Battleforge, and this is the wrong place for a guy like that.

4. I'd like to see additional rPvE difficulties too, but nothing like what you discribed. Make them even more challenging, what am I talking... make it mindblowingly overtuned (I'm sure @Treim would love to see a challenge for once) dont worry about the reward, this will only be possible to compleate for the top 0.01%.

 

Hope my feedback helps

Kind regards,
Myno

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Ok, 2 more replies in a reasonable manner. There might come some more which is, good, i might no reply to all of them any more cause, i think they start to get a little bit more similar, and maybe I'm not needed to explain it anymore. Lets start:

On 8/17/2020 at 5:55 PM, Flrbb said:

each fraction allread has its own sort of healing. Bloodhealing for shadow, minor heals for fire (because .. hey, its agressive fire, not save n' secure nature) and blue has shields and a shrine and spells for damage reduction. Also, each fraction could stand near a building.....

True. I did focus on pve i think, and therefore the t4 focus. Standing next to building and wait seems a bit too boring for pve, or at least for rpve although its possible. And yes the healing is there for every fraction already, as i had mentioned, i just wanted ti strengthen it, so taht it would be comprable to green. Atm, 95% and more have a green, orb just because it is so hard to play without it. Keep the the speciality of the healing of each colour, red has to fight , black get damage while healing. But make them stronger and comparable to regrwoth, although a little weakerr maybe, so taht green has still has its stand alone point.

Then change the 4 colour cards, because again, they are seen in less then 5% of the decks. For me i just cant stand to play 9 anymore, just becasue if seen all. I would like to try it with the tutorial deck, but past t4 i probably wont be of help for my teammates, so i dont do it.

 

3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

1. There's a lot to lern here from experienced game designers such as the guys at wizards of the coast who are not flawless in designing Magic the gathering, but I'd say they're making a good job. I just recently linked to an article about "why do bad cards exist" and I cannot reccomend anyone who's interested to take a look at their design philosophy. Bad cards exist, this includes bad mythics (ultra rares in MtG), and does not exclude commons from beeing overpowered.
From a new players point of view your suggestions makes total sence: Rare equal pricy. But you actualy worsen the problem by additionaly limiting the supply of high demanded cards which will result in a fuckload of players abandoning the game immediately after checking the price of that sweet Shaman (a.e.). If you think im talking boogus here, there's a better example: Infect.

 

 Hmm, on this point you guys seem to be really stubborn. Maybe because atm the cards are so expensive, that everyone is afraid that they will get more expensive.

It wont. On a different thread there is a dicussion abaout the reward system, and how much bfp, it should give, and how much a booster shoould cost. This all useful, but the ground on what it is build is not solid yet. First, in my opinion it would be good to know what a booster is worth, and to rely on it for a steady income. The last 3 boosters i did get there rares where, earthen gift, lost shadow, and avatar of forst. So moneywise im fine, but i dont think it useful. 

I think, there should be a card range of non-promo cards from 20-2000bfps. So the expensive cards are woth 100 commens. Atm cards about 2000 bfps, are nearly all ultra rare, except enlightment, i believe. Take aways teh ultra rare thing, they become cheaper. 

Then you can start to adjust, if a card is worth more then 2000 bfps, then reduce the rarity factor, expecially if it a fun card which you want people to play with.

So in the way i suggested it, shaman would get more expensive, bring it rarity down, to uncommen or commen. This card is valuable expecially for beinngers. Regrowth, worth 100 bfps, for a commen, amke it ultra commen. Als the the ultra rares will be around 2k bfps, i believe if they get down to rare. Enlgihtment make it uncommen, becuase aperently people want to play with this card, and it is actually useful not only for speedruns, but also to creat divers decks, and use 4 colour cards, that would be used otherwise.

On the other hand, oracle mask, worth 20 bfps, or something, back in the day it tried to buy all of them to get the price up a bit. Reduce the rarity. You dont want to get a 20 bfps card as your rare.

If there are 2 rare, who are worth mony every booster, even better, less scarcity.

Generally you dont have to order them by price, cause you basically already know the prices of the cards. But i would start by working on this foundation, in way i proposed, and then wonder about the bfps daily rewards.

A little side note, i also dont think the wizards of the coast, know which cards are great beforehand, although the probably do a lot more testing on them then EA.

3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

3. Change is good, right? Yes, to a certain point.
This suggestion can be made in an alpha phase of a game, there is no point to discuss here. I feel like you're the Bradford 'CertainlyT' Wenban of Battleforge, and this is the wrong place for a guy like that.

 

Think we are still in the alpha phase of the game. But maybe this idea will be more inspiring when more people have reached the limits of the game. Not sure what Mr Certainly does, maybe he just wants to create fun champs to earn money, and doesn't care about the balancing. But maybe he is bored of league, and doesn't care how his oppnents fell. Can't say.

3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

4. I'd like to see additional rPvE difficulties too, but nothing like what you discribed. Make them even more challenging, what am I talking... make it mindblowingly overtuned (I'm sure @Treim would love to see a challenge for once) dont worry about the reward, this will only be possible to compleate for the top 0.01%.

I also believe that Treim would love more challenging rpve maps. 

But this is not the goal. The goal is to make a difficulty for rpve players, who want to casually play the game, but in a way it is still interesting. So if you played hunderest of lvl 9, lvl 10 is this still interesting for you. The main problem is that people think it is not fun, and that it is too hard.

So what i do, i play full support decks. I build fountains of rebirth at the start. Then switch to red, and help my other player with mines, eruption and the fountains to get to t2. Afterwards i build all the buildings in the game, wheels, incredible mo, shrine of war, and healing gardens, and then i still clear one fourth of the map. This is all fine, but it is a little to much to ask for a single person to do that. And maybe people want to play lvl 10 without me once in a while too. I have to admit, just with this thread, and the offering help for lvl 10 thread, my waiting time has gone down a lot, and if its not at night i usually find players.

But there is a demand, that players want more then lvl 9. And it took me about a year to teach, with is all fine. But i believe not needed. Treim can still play the hard maps on difficulty 12, and I'm sure he would not mind to play easier lvl 10 maps casually with friends. I do believe he loves rpve as much as I do. Although he generally focusses on speedruns, but he does play random stuff too.

 

3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

Hope my feedback helps

Its good when people write their opinion. I did not try to explain every possible opinion in the first thread. So its good when people write it down here. To what Farinavas wrote, I still dont know what he was on about. I think he missread my first text. And why the aggression, he just seems to be a bad person, or just very young and didn't know better. By the way Damo messaged me ingame and wasn't better, so it aplies to him to i guess.

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3. I think that these spells should stay within the theme of their faction. I think Blood Healing does that pretty well and is definetly playable and enables a lot of fun decks already. I think with the changes to Martyr shrine currently proposed Frost has a reasonable way of defense as well which only really leaves Fire out there. Currently you have to get very creative around stuff like Moonshine's heal to get stuff done, but I think that is fine overall. You might want to get healing a bit more accessable for that faction, maybe one could work around some kind of rage effect which enables healing similar to Batariels aura damage, where after certain threshhold of damage applied the amount of healing is increased and make it a small AoE similar to blood Healing but no clue if that is even possible to implement. Also I do not think that making healing easily accessable to all factions is all that desireable. I do not want pure nature to have access to mass massive damage spells either. I'd rather see new cards introduced that further strengthen the identitiy of these factions. For nature you could introduce a mass cc spell that is pure nature, For Frost I think Shrine of Martyr changes go into that direction. Fire you mighth want to introduce a spell that ramps up damage of units in a certain area by x amount, kind of similar to Unholy Hero or Flame Crystal and Shadow is strong enough as is i think. I think that splash decks will almost always stay stronger because a well balanced deck is almost always more beneficial. I do not think that making certain unaccessable for these decks is the way to go. I'd rather see better options for pure factions that double down on their strenghts. if that is a viable path to take even from a developmental viewpoint I do not know.

4. I think i stated this multiple times over the years on the forums already, but I think that the current jump from level 9 to level 10 is just too insane for most players at the moment while level 9 itself might be a tad bit to easy, a few Lost Souls maps excepted. I mean if pretty much anyone with a somwhat passable deck can beat the second highest difficulty something is a bit messed up imo. The jump currently is partially due to the vasst differences in difficulty depending on enemy faction, but I think that the current layout difference between level 9 and level 10 is the far bigger contributor.
I think currently the level 10 structure introduces two characteristics that people do not find on any other difficulty that just makes them unable to face these things as they simply dont have any experience with these things.
1. Clearing a camp results in being attacked at a different place on the map early on
2. Clearing camps with spawn buildings by themselves

That in combination with the average understanding of key game mechanics by the general player base that beats level 9's being low further enhances this rather massive spike in difficulty which in turn leads to players being overwhelmed instead of steady increase in difficulty where people can slowly discover the importance of these few concepts. In current level 9's you most of the time do not need these concepts to beat the map or only a very very rudimentary "understanding", so why bother learning. Sometimes i feel like that concepts like aggro ranges, spawn mechanics or base structures and strengths are totally foreign words to some players, even in the relatively repetitive formats of level 9 maps. To be fair especially the latter point varies between factions which does not help.

I think that most level 10 maps are reasonably well balanced as they are, maybe tone down some of the LS maps a bit and enhance difficulty of Bandit maps a bit and I think you got a well balanced top difficulty that still allows for a reasonably well diversity of decks and strategies to beat while the different factions have different spikes in difficulty that require certain type of cards to be in decks of at least a few of the players as well as knowledge of playing around certain concepts. E.g. CC cards against Twilight aswell as understanding how to play around enemy cc, strong t2 card combinations and playing around XL units in lower orb tiers of play. Lost Souls - understanding of debuffs as well as playing coherent t1 strategies to beat overarching strength at t1 stages.

In terms of changes to steady the difficulty curve for level 10 you could delete Level 8 maps, which essentially are no different than Level 7 maps for Lost Souls, Bandits and Stonekin and are close to difficulty 9 for Twilight imo. Make current level 9 the new level 8 and add a level 9 that differs in structure. I had a structure in mind that iirc was in the game back in the day and was patched out later on, might be wrong on this but not quite sure as its so long back:

Have t1 to t2 the same is it is now but afterwards positions do not have shared t3's and instead the map opens up into two paths. At each end you find a camp that is roughly the strengths of a t3 camp right now or maybe the current t2 camps for level 10. That means you get 2 incomes upon clearing t2 and and you have to clear your orb alone against while having to defend at another point on the map simultaneously. This should be a bit easier overall, because in t2 you have more options for play and cant be surprised by attacks at t2 because they start as soon as you attack t2. After t3 camps are cleared both players on one side have a shared t4 again.

I am aware that a lot of people will currently probably not be able to handle that, but I think that is fine, it is after all the 2nd highest difficulty there is, why should it be easy. Make the difficulty according to that. Even beating level 8 shouldnt be as easy as most current level 9's are but that would be more of a minor issue after this is fixed initially.

Again I am not sure if any of this is even possible right now or ever will be, just my current ideal scenario for rpve difficulties.

P.s. I think the easiest fix to op Lost Souls maps is to not allow enemy towers at t2 camps which severely weakens Lost Vigils after the spawn building is down, maybe remove shielding Lost wanderers as well (the non shielding variant is fine though) if the camps are still a bit too unfair, would require testing for sure.
 

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2 hours ago, Buddelmuddel said:

Think we are still in the alpha phase of the game. But maybe this idea will be more inspiring when more people have reached the limits of the game.

No, skylords reborn is not in alpha phase where core gamemechanics get changed. This is a rerelease of a decade year old game. I don't know where you got that Idea from.

About "reaching the limits of the game"; what do you mean? What limits?

Edited by Mynoduesp
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On 8/19/2020 at 1:25 AM, Treim said:

 I think Blood Healing does that pretty well and is definetly playable and enables a lot of fun decks already.

I do think blood healing needs to be changed. It is just inconveniend, and too little used. I'm not sure if i have seen it, and i have used it only a little. Would go for a wider range as written, and something like 1000 heal each second for all units in range, for 4 seconds. And the damage should be something like 250 for each second, and as an t4 card.

On 8/19/2020 at 1:25 AM, Treim said:

 I think with the changes to Martyr shrine currently proposed Frost has a reasonable way of defense as well 

I dont know so changes to martyr shrine, but i would go with a spell over a building, its just more fun, although a building would fit within the blue fraction. And cards like ice age could be used too, although they will probably work on the new martyr shrine too.

 

 

Generally what Treim said, goes in the right direction, and will be an improvement if implemented. Although i still think in the way i proposed it, it would be more fun, and offer a wider variety and be more attracting to more players.

On 8/19/2020 at 1:50 AM, Mynoduesp said:

No, skylords reborn is not in alpha phase where core gamemechanics get changed. This is a rerelease of a decade year old game. I don't know where you got that Idea from.

About "reaching the limits of the game"; what do you mean? What limits?

I guess it depends on how you look at it. For me the new "ownership" of the game, just opened possibilities, and i think very little was put into the game from EAs side. I renember like 3 patches, but im not sure.

With limit of the game, it also depends on how you look at it. If you are campaing player and you did all campaings with all possible decks its kind of a limit reaching. As a battleground player i have done the difficutlies with nearly all decks, so its kind of limit reaching. But there is still the possibility to play something different. But i rather go with reaching the limits.

 

 

I did add 2 little tweaks at the top of my proposal list:

5. Change amii monument and enlightment to 4 orbs cards

6. Offer the possibility to pay bfps to have your deck shown in the speedruns

 

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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Well EA still owns the game. And just from the game files I can easily count over 100 patches.

SR distrubutes the editor with the game, so anyone can try to create new maps, if they think they are up to the task with almost no documentaton from EA.

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Using bloodhealing isn't that hard, and remember it's only 50 power wich is a big advantage over the nature heals. Yes, regrowth is easier to use and a stronger heal but as far as i see it you will either displease a lot of casual players by nerfing it or buff bloodhealing endlessly and people still won't use it as long as you don't change its mechanic and make it a generic one click AOE heal.

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  • 2 weeks later...

5. Change amii monument and enlightment to 4 orbs cards

6. Offer the possibility to pay bfps to have your deck shown in the speedruns

7. Show if someone is looking for opponents in ranked pvp

8. Offer 2 different kinds Tome decks, for Pve and Pvp: 1. Random preprepared decks

                                                                               2. Totally random cards: PvE: 2 colours, 5 cards, from each orb lvl

                                                                                                                  PVP: 2 colours, 6 cards from t1,t2,t3, 2 cards t4

9. Show in the friendlist, how long the battleground game of a person still lasts

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14 suggestions in one Thread are no good idea, so it will never come to the point.

The major points were pretty nailed.

I like some of the minor QOL proposals if doable (showing someone is in the ranked pvp searching, more information what my friends are doing)

 

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32 minutes ago, Pritstift said:

100% No.

Create your own ideas and dont steal from other players without their permission.

I believe you missread me.

Generally the decks should not be shown. But you could enable it to have your deck shown, if you want to.

Sometime you played a lvl 10 map, without batariel, lost spirit ships or phoenixes vs stoneskin, or you used the starter deck, then it would be nice to show it. In the way it would be possible to play a lvl 10 map, with a random lvl 10 deck, and people could have a look at it, without that they have to write me or ask me.

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

so as suggested, I did sort, the 4p battleground lvl 10 maps. It took me about 5-6 hours to get 100 maps sorted. I did use 2 pcs to do it.

Generally I would suggest to use the listed 100 maps, as the new lvl 10, and the current lvl 10 as lvl 11, or delete lvl 3, and keep 10 difficulties in total. The maps will make it easier for expierenced lvl 9 players to get a grasp of lvl 10. All difficulties that are hidden in lvl 10 are hinted at, but in their eaisest forms.

There are more bandit maps then usual, and less lost souls maps then usual. On lost souls there are no vigils, On stoneskin there are no air starts and t3 camps together. The only bosses that are at t4, are the bandit rider, and  earth destroyer, once. No instant attacks, expept once, on a bandit map with no camps, and no flying. 

 

Seeds new lvl 10 4p battleground.xlsx

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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I really dislike the major suggestions.

1. Sure, getting a garbage UR is a bummer but rarity should NOT be tied to desirability. It's good that there are strong and desirable common/uncommon cards. It makes boosters more exciting and it makes good decks more accessible.

You are basically asking for a community ranking of all cards and then make the ones that are the most popular for one reason or another rare. No thanks.

2. Building your collection from the ground up is essential part of the game. Giving away like one fifth of the ENTIRE roster is crazy. You are actively trying to undermine the "collectible" part of the "collectible card game" by simply giving everyone the cards they want the most from the get go. Also, you didn't consider new players at all. What if a new player picks a color because they look cool or something and then it turns out they don't enjoy them? Then they wasted their free gift on garbage they don't want. Would they get the option to switch? That undermines the entire point of the collecting part even more. Horrible.

3. Pure T4 cards are great for flavor in your deck and make interesting choices for Enlighten. The only problem I see with them is that they don't justify the opportunity cost of going pure, they aren't strong enough. But there should absolutely be pure decks where all four orbs end up the same color by design. And even if they aren't the best T4 choices, they are still fun if you just want to enjoy a pure deck. You can argue that you can still do that if they were 3fix1flex but they would lose their identity. Not a fan. If anything there should be one or two MORE pure cards to make it more attractive.

The card ideas mostly already exist in some form.

5. Might as well delete them from the game. Flexible and powerful cards enable loads of interesting options and approaches. And while they can make alternatives seem weaker in comparison, they don't remove them.

 

Your preamble is just sheesh, yikes, dude, come on. Don't know what makes you so confident about your suggestions but some are really flawed ideas. Also so weird to imagine LoL took your idea as if the honor system is so unbelievably revolutionary. It's just a "thumbs up" for positive players and they get tossed a bone once in a while, that super basic. Do you really think you are the only and first person to come up with that? You can't actually be serious about that.

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So first of all, it is a well written response, and it is an opinion, where i cant disagree with all of it.

Lets see:

10 hours ago, Cocofang said:

I really dislike the major suggestions.

1. Sure, getting a garbage UR is a bummer but rarity should NOT be tied to desirability. It's good that there are strong and desirable common/uncommon cards. It makes boosters more exciting and it makes good decks more accessible.

You are basically asking for a community ranking of all cards and then make the ones that are the most popular for one reason or another rare. No thanks.

I do not think, that it makes good decks more accessible. I think it just slows down the speed you get good decks. Because most good cards are rare, or ultra rare, you would get those cards faster, and you wouldn't have to cope with a bad rare cards. Commens and uncommens would abscially stay the same. For some special ones it would be needed to look into it, to see if the raritiy is right or another is needed, like shaman. Maybe even just clear up the rare cards with it, but shaman probably still would be needed to be adressed. I'm not sure if there are any other commen, uncommen cards that are too expensive.

10 hours ago, Cocofang said:

2. Building your collection from the ground up is essential part of the game. Giving away like one fifth of the ENTIRE roster is crazy. You are actively trying to undermine the "collectible" part of the "collectible card game" by simply giving everyone the cards they want the most from the get go. Also, you didn't consider new players at all. What if a new player picks a color because they look cool or something and then it turns out they don't enjoy them? Then they wasted their free gift on garbage they don't want. Would they get the option to switch? That undermines the entire point of the collecting part even more. Horrible.

I believe, there is enough to collect, even when you gathered already one fith of the game. It is actually more fun to collect cards, when you have the basics cards already, rather than grinding to get a playabale deck.

It would skip part of the boring start, atm which should be improved in my opinion.

If new players, do pick the wrong colour they still are ahead, compared to when they would not have gotten the boost.

10 hours ago, Cocofang said:

 

3. Pure T4 cards are great for flavor in your deck and make interesting choices for Enlighten. The only problem I see with them is that they don't justify the opportunity cost of going pure, they aren't strong enough. But there should absolutely be pure decks where all four orbs end up the same color by design. And even if they aren't the best T4 choices, they are still fun if you just want to enjoy a pure deck. You can argue that you can still do that if they were 3fix1flex but they would lose their identity. Not a fan. If anything there should be one or two MORE pure cards to make it more attractive.

The card ideas mostly already exist in some form.

 

It is true, that 4 colour cards, make part of the identity, and if you play one of them its kind of cool. And an solution would be to make more 4 colour cards, and expecially a good healing in each fraction. But as you wrote I also think 3 colours are identity enough, and atm they are just not played enough, and i would like to see them more, to get more diversity into the battleground game.

10 hours ago, Cocofang said:

5. Might as well delete them from the game. Flexible and powerful cards enable loads of interesting options and approaches. And while they can make alternatives seem weaker in comparison, they don't remove them.

The thing with them is that they skip part of the game. You dont need to get t4 in campaings and battelground anymore, You could also make a 1 orb card, that gives you 3 orbs for free.

To to be fair, it mostly affects speedruns, and i dont play them that often. And I`m actually affected by it, because on some rpve 10 maps, there is urzak at t4, and with non XL units you basically cant kill him, so its nice to have enlightment or amii monument to kill him. But I would tune down his L damage, and still makes those cards t4, so that there also has to be a t3 played in speedruns.

10 hours ago, Cocofang said:

Your preamble is just sheesh, yikes, dude, come on. Don't know what makes you so confident about your suggestions but some are really flawed ideas. Also so weird to imagine LoL took your idea as if the honor system is so unbelievably revolutionary. It's just a "thumbs up" for positive players and they get tossed a bone once in a while, that super basic. Do you really think you are the only and first person to come up with that? You can't actually be serious about that.

Well, I`m not sure if I was the first to come up with it. I still think, I should have gotten something for it. To be fair, it didn't help that much either, I still mute, everyone at the start. But I just play one game at a time, and since batteforge came, back it is battelforge again. I also did suggest the ivern bush, maybe someone else has done it too, not sure. And I would have a good tournamnt idea for riot, but if i would propose, I would ask them beforehand, what i would get if they implement it. Anyways, I did stopp suggesting, as I said, after it.

Edited by Buddelmuddel
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