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macabi

Recent BFP Reward Changes are Bad for Daily Players

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Posted (edited)

Recent BFP Changes that reward 250 BFP for 60 minutes instead of a Booster for 30 minutes are Bad for Daily Players.

Before the changes took place players would have gained 2 boosters over 2 days after playing 30 minutes each day which is worth 900 BFP (for 60 minutes of game play).

Now, with the recent changes players have to play 60 minutes each day (for 2 days) in order to gain 500 BFP (120 minutes total of game play).

If you add the 100 discount for a booster that you can claim the reward is actually 600 BFP.

So not only players have to play 120 minutes over two days (instead of 60 minutes), players end up making even less - 600 BFP vs 900 before for half the time.

I understand that the new system is trying to help none-daily players to earn more, and that is fine.

But why reduce the reward for daily players? and by so much?

At the very least allow players to earn 250 BFP for 30 minutes of gameplay instead of 60 minutes, and then add more (reduced) reward for 30 additional minutes.

Also, booster are NOT worth 450 BFP.

Their average worth is more like 200 BFP.

Therefore, the daily Booster discount should be at least 250 BFP instead of 100 discount.

These recent changes will only discourage daily players from playing every day.

I play most days and I am very discouraged.

 

Edited by macabi

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Posted (edited)

Amen.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.

Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.

Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.

Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game :)

Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.

Edited by Damo
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Posted (edited)

Hello there,

pretty much has already been said by the 2. I would just tell you some more or less accurate numbers (As i understand it) and the way to achieve them. 
A daily player with the goal to get the maximum BFP would need to play 1hr for 250 bfp + 100 booster discount + probably both quests completed = 400 bfp and a booster would be only 350(since there is no real reson to buy the other boosters imo) but who would want to spend the 400 hard earned BFP on a booster? Even if it is only 350? The average Booster content is worth something like 200-250 (please correct me if i am wrong). 
After achieving the daily boost you got the reserve which contains 200 BFP and Drains pretty slow just by the feel of it. Lets say you are able to play each day right after the new daily boost Is available for 2 hours (which by the way is at midday and most of the players who play much right now still have a job and are not able to do so) but for the sake of the calculation: 

you get your daily boost after 1 hour And probably completed the quests (400 BFP) after that you drain your reserve completly (+200BFP) then after aprox 9 hours you can start draining your reserve again If that takes you 1 hour you get + 200 again. And the next time you get your daily boost you can drain it again. But for the raw calculation: 250 + 150 for the quests + 20 per hour on one day = 880 if your reserve never reaches its maximum.
Thats doesent sound bad because in the old system if you sold your booster for 420 and completed both quest which was possible in 30 minutes you got 570 BFP. 

The problem in my Opinion is that i dont see a way to play so much at such wired times each day If i have my usual work week.  Sure i get a few bfp more but the hours i need to invest are crazy high. 
Furthermore i know many players who during the week logged in just to play 30 minutes to get their booster and the quests. Maybe on 1 workday they would play for much more than the 30 minutes. And i think these players wont be as motivated to play for 1,5+ hour longer each day Just to get daily boost and drain the reserve once (old system 570 BFP in 30 minutes/ new system 600 BFP in 2h or more). 
 

A big part of my playing experience that motivated me to play every day was in fact the daily booster. 
 

Additionally if i remember correctly a big argument for the catch up mechanic and the slower progression was that the pvp players didnt want to be far behind if they couldnt play as much. Since you announced that you are planning to make pvp playable for everybody with equal decks without the much feared grind that argument about the catch up mechanic and the slower progression overall becomes worthless.

You want slower progression to keep the game interesting for all players for many years. I understand that, but i feel kind of scammed now that i need to player several hours more each day just to progress a little faster than in the old system. 

New point: If you dont complete the daily boost to a certain point you only get 100BFP the following day. So thats pretty bad if you really cant play the 60 minutes!
 

60 minutes are pretty long since if you decent at the game most maps dont take you that long and to find players to play with also takes alot time. So the time to get the daily boost is more likley 75-90 minutes 

And i dont even want to talk about the economy after the reset because i cant look into the future but what i expect too happen doesnt make me happy. 
 

Lets hope to find a slollution that makes everyone happy. 
Have a good day everyone
Regards,

BlueBerryBoy

Edited by Farinavas
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Farinavas said:

And i dont even want to talk about the economy after the reset because i cant look into the future but what i expect too happen doesnt make me happy.

I concur with most things above, just wanted to say I will happily comment on the particular  topic above. :) Have done so in posts in the past and now again:

Infect now cost a shitload of BFPs and will so even after reset, I am dead sure...why, with fewer boosters opened market availabilty will be even less (I mentioned this somewhere in the forum, to get 50 people have Infect fully upgraded requires 66000 boosters to be opened), eg. supply will be less and demand high. Also, I am not so sure people will spend 1000 BFPs on a shadow booster for a slim chance to get an Infect. Tried one yesterday and drew a Plague as rare and Shadow Phoenix as uncommon, so wasting around 700 BFPs on that one...

Have said it in the past and I will say it again, slowness will never be a successful attribute of this game, grinding like crazy to get cards, upgrades and such is only fun to a certain extent, crossing that bored out of your senses boundary will have people rage quit not being able to successfully beat an rPvE level 6 map and then not ever opening up the game again...my experience tells me, game is most fun when you have access to all cards that matter and to me that is when it starts not ends (multiple people in the forum wrongly believes that game ends once you have all cards...)

// Ponni

Edited by Ponni
typo
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Hi there,

this might be my first post, because even if I didn't like any of the other decisions made for that game, it was still playable.
For me this project is now over. I have absolutely zero motivation to grind that small amount of bfp each day.
The daily booster was a great way to fill my break while working at home, but now it's just not rewarding anymore.
 

3 hours ago, Damo said:


Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.

I think this really describes it the best.

 

So again,
farewell BattleForge - maybe this time forever :(

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ponni said:

 

Have said it in the past and I will say it again, slowness will never be a successful attribute of this game, grinding like crazy to get cards, upgrades and such is only fun to a certain extent, crossing that bored out of your sences boundary will have people rage quit not being able to successfully beat an rPvE level 6 map not ever opening up the game again...my experience tells me, game is most fun when you have access to all cards that matter and to me thats when it starts not ends (multiple people in the forum wrongly believes that game ends once you have all cards...)

// Ponni

I agree!

1 Thing i just want to mention. 
the game is super fun if you have all the cards you need for speedruns etc. but a grind is too. But with the current system i could make a super complex callculation if you want (It will take me some time and it will not be super accruate), to visualize how long it would take a player to even get to all the necessary cards for a bata deck (with current prices), if someone would be able to get the 880 bfp a day. I also would have to make some assumptions about how many of the ultra rare and necassary cards will be available in the market (Enlightment, infect, mine, nether warp).

But as it is now the grind is way to long to even consider to play some of the hard 4p maps (Speedruns) within the first few months.  For the BG Motm it would be quite funny to see how fast players can beat the maps with unoptimized decks and nearly no upgrades. My experinece since I started playing in April 2020. was that i was able to get the cards i wanted quite fast (there were already many cards available in the market) and i did not even sell more than 10 booster in the time which would have speed up my progress. I now have all cards i want for BG speedruns and i had to play 30 minutes a day for that. I can spare 30 minutes a day but i cant spare 2 hours+ for a little faster BFP gain when there is a non functioning market and the card supply is extremly low (after the reset i assume this will happen). 
 

Concluding:

1. the grind seems to be way to long and boring since you wont be able to beat fun maps or grind some speedruns to pass the time

2. The daily playtime is way to long for the amount of bfp you get

3. the new Boosters need some changes and there need to be adjustments so the market will still be supplied with cards (who plays 2+ hours to buy some overpriced cards or roll the dice and buy a booster)

4. Most players wont have the motivation to play each day since you need to beat too many maps too even get to your bfp (long times for team search not included)

Possible Solutions need to be discussed with players who want to grind a lot if you are able to implement the PVP changes these players dont really need to be implemented in the discussion since fair PVP is available for everyone

I like the idea for the catch up mechanic but with the predicted market after reset it will take months too even get a few important cards if some can maybe only play 1 or 2 times a week. 
 

i feel kind of sad since i have a lot of time right now but dont even have the motivation to play for so long even if i have all the cards i want. I think the daily Booster was just way too fun but spending the BFP earned over hours to open 1 or 2 is just not what i want to do with my time. 

Edited by Farinavas
Typo
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Change it back to what it was please. The economy is gonna be ruined because of this.

Also Without the quest for booster then its slower to do the achivement which give booster. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, BoltOfZues said:

Change it back to what it was please. The economy is gonna be ruined because of this.

Also Without the quest for booster then its slower to do the achivement which give booster. 

No! A different system is required than before the update, the idea to award players after the daily reward is a good one, but it needs to be further tuned maybe a new aproach for the daily boost is needed. 
The achievments are getting reworked anyways. And the Current achievment doesnt really matter it has no real impact after 50or 100 quests completed (dont have the numbers for the early steps right now). I am curious how many quests do you have completed @BoltOfZues

Edited by Farinavas
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I agree that this change will probably lead to economy problems. It may (or may not) work for now that we have lots of boosters opened but after the reset and launch there will probably be issues with card supply. You can't have whales in this game (which I am fine with) who open enormous amounts of boosters and so supply the market.

I think  that 1 booster/30 minutes of gameplay is probably a bit much but instead of totally removing the daily booster, I'd rather have a system where you can afford 1 booster after ~1 hour of play and then additional tiered rewards, similar to the current achievements track but resetting each week. e.g. after your first booster for the day you need to play 5/10/15 (adjust numbers as you like) matches for another booster or bigger RP rewards. The current system with boosted rp gain and reserves only adds unneeded complexity imho and would therefore be bad for high active player count after release. 

So to sum up: Make one booster/large amout of RP achievable by ~1 hour of gameplay and then add more daily rewards with diminishing returns for those who want to grind

 

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Reserve gives 1bfp per minute. To drain it completely you need 4 hours. How many people spend 4 hours DAILY in this game? 

People have life and job/school...

Also new 1k boosters are awesome.

Opened 1 nature: Blue dryad + Shaman YEY!
Opened 2nd nature: Nothing
Result: 1900bfp-400bfp(dryad)-700bfp(shaman)=800bfp
So lost 800bfp IF someone will buy dryad and shaman at these prices.
Awesome deal.

Funny is that booster gives cards i already have 9 copies of. Maybe you will set a cap? I understand that you will get 5 copies but 10?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ponni said:

I concur with most things above, just wanted to say I will happily comment on the particular  topic above. :) Have done so in posts in the past and now again:

Infect now cost a shitload of BFPs and will so even after reset, I am dead sure...why, with fewer boosters opened market availabilty will be even less (I mentioned this somewhere in the forum, to get 50 people have Infect fully upgraded requires 66000 boosters to be opened), eg. supply will be less and demand high. Also, I am not so sure people will spend 1000 BFPs on a shadow booster for a slim chance to get an Infect. Tried one yesterday and drew a Plague as rare and Shadow Phoenix as uncommon, so wasting around 700 BFPs on that one...

Have said it in the past and I will say it again, slowness will never be a successful attribute of this game, grinding like crazy to get cards, upgrades and such is only fun to a certain extent, crossing that bored out of your senses boundary will have people rage quit not being able to successfully beat an rPvE level 6 map and then not ever opening up the game again...my experience tells me, game is most fun when you have access to all cards that matter and to me that is when it starts not ends (multiple people in the forum wrongly believes that game ends once you have all cards...)

// Ponni

Keep in mind this upcoming change btw
image.png.cbb46781382bf13682c9975efad2d97d.png

Edited by Loriens

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Posted (edited)

So first of all: I don't want to talk completely badly about what has been implemented here. I think that the new Reward System conceptually contains some good approaches.
In my humble opinion, this could have been a great addition to the old quests (especially the booster quest). 
But I still don't see how it can replace the old system in a meaningful, long-term, and above all sustainable way.
The market could have been kept alive by the daily boosters, while players will have the additional opportunity to earn extra Bfp by grinding whichever gamemode they like.
Why take away the daily boosters from the players, which are essentially the last bastion of the already rotten market?

4 hours ago, Nyakyua said:

The daily booster was a great way to fill my break while working at home, but now it's just not rewarding anymore.

I'll second that.
What could be better in the last few weeks than to take half an hour of time during the home office lunch breaks to play some battleground. That was rounded off by opening the booster!
This great experience is now completely lost. 

Another problem that I have with the current version of the new rewards is that daily active players will be punished additionally if they don't get their 60 minutes per day.
If the Daily Boost is not played down to 0 BFP, the next day only 100 will be added to the pool. 
Normal players who played their half hour or less per day for the Booster this system takes away all the financial basis to be able to play the game at a reasonable level at all.

2 hours ago, Amorphium said:

I think  that 1 booster/30 minutes of gameplay is probably a bit much

 

In what world is that "a bit much"? The sense of progress for new players is already low and will now simply slowed down even further. 

4 hours ago, Ponni said:

Have said it in the past and I will say it again, slowness will never be a successful attribute of this game, grinding like crazy to get cards, upgrades and such is only fun to a certain extent, crossing that bored out of your senses boundary will have people rage quit not being able to successfully beat an rPvE level 6 map and then not ever opening up the game again

This can't be seriously the idea behind all this. Slow down the process of getting cards until it takes months to assemble individual decks, under the pretext of generating long-term motivation.
Most players I know enjoy playing with full decks and being rewarded for achievements rather than being left behind with semi-constructed decks for what feels like an eternity.

 

Last but not least, I've taken some time to look up the prices of some of my battleground decks and listed how long it takes for each deck to purchase a single charge for each card in the deck broken down into "Quests + Daily" (400 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + One Reserve" (600 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + Full Reserves" (880 Bfp per day).

Small note: This would be "60 minutes", "260 minutes" and "540 minutes" per day ;)

  • I did not even include common cards in the prices. 
  • The prices are taken from the market place today (~17:00 CEST).

Fire Spell Support (Fire -> Nature -> Fire -> Fire):  4260 Bfp per charge

  • 5 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes per day
  • 7 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes per day
  • 10 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day

Grimvine + Ships (Nature -> Shadow -> Shadow -> Frost):  9660 Bfp per charge

  • 11 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes
  • 16 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes
  • 21 days (Quests und Daily) - 60 minutes per day

Batariel Deck (Fire -> Shadow -> Nature -> Nature -> Shadow ): 13440 Bfp per charge 

  • 15 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes
  • 22 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes
  • 34 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day

edit: Just wanted to mention that by fully charging the Batariel deck by playing 540 minutes per day you'd end up playing 540 hours (22.5 days) in 2 straight months => possible ≠ desirable.

To sum up at this point: 

  1. The normal rewards are too few. 
  2. The Grind is not worth it at all.
  3. At the latest after the reset, the market will collapse like a house of cards, because there are not enough cards to satisfy the players' deck requests and very few of them want to buy boosters to gamble with the very last remaining money.

@Loriens Yeah, that's indeed nice and neat. But unfortunately it is a fact that a superior proportion of the most expensive cards in the game are among those with a single charge.
But yes, basically I'm on your side on this one. It's definitely gonna bring a little relief!

 

Edited by Damo
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Loriens said:

Keep in mind this upcoming change btw
image.png.cbb46781382bf13682c9975efad2d97d.png

Had missed that! Thanks for posting and it will for sure do some good.

But when it comes to the card I usually reference (Infect) you will still need all charges to have it competitive enough, unless you use Offering of course, but that card will then take up a slot in your deck making your options less...

// Ponni

Edited by Ponni
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5 minutes ago, Ponni said:

Had missed that! Thanks for posting and it will for sure do some good.

But when it comes to the card I usually reference (Infect) you will still need all charges to have it competitive enough, unless you use Offering of course, but that card will then take up a slot in your deck making your options less...

// Ponni

Personally i use infect with no charges at all, but i guess this is an other discussion.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Farinavas said:

Personally i use infect with no charges at all, but i guess this is an other discussion.

Please do not ruin my arguments here! ;)

We can take the second pricy card into discussions also, Enligthenment, which also is an Ultra rare, but comes with only 4 total charges. The changes mentioned above will have no effect here then...and sometimes that would be fine but in a lot of cases it will not help at all...

Again, the use of Offering is of course a valid option but to me this card only take a slot for other better cards.

// Ponni

Edited by Ponni
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Some good stuff in this thread. Just gonna add my two cents here:

There's a lot of comparison going on with the new and old system, but the fact of the matter is, there was barely an "old system". It was purely supposed to be a placeholder, with accelerated progression and rewards as expressed in the booster in 30 mins that was just arbitrarily created without much thought. Alas, with how the project progress turned out, and bigger priorities, we had that up as a placeholder for way too long, that now it feels like a standard that you compare new things to.

Secondly, you are comparing the new rewards with the current market prices, which is a fallacy in itself, because it is generated from the old economy with the old system. There's alot of people who have acquired all the cards they could have wanted, and do not actively participate in the market place anymore, decreasing the supply of cards, causing hyperinflation of prices, and a certain monopoly in some cards, where new sellers can set whatever price they want, which generates alot of fluctuation. This economy could for example look drastically different with a reinvigorated playerbase, and a healthy marketplace environment.

Thirdly, similarly with calculating the "worth of a booster" is a very delicate thing, since that too depends on the supply and demand of a card. As prices rise in AH, a booster will also rise in value, which should stimulate more people to buy boosters. Pure boosters should not be easily dismissed for this reason, as alot of pure cards are also very high in value. We need to make some kind of price difference between all cards boosters and specific boosters or no one would buy the other. Now the actual price difference itself is still very much up for debate of course.

I hope i shed some light on some matters, and implore you guys not to give up on us yet! This is the very first iteration of a brand new untested system. Please don't be too harsh with us!

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I started playing BF when we had to pay. I had invested a little money but the bulk of my acquisitions were done by buying and selling cards in the market. With the free booster per day, I didn't need to do this anymore.

I have a lot of duplicate cards that I would like to get rid of in the market but the 24 / 48h limit is too short. Why impose a time limit? I am too cowardly to put my unsold cards back on sale every 24 / 48h and I must not be the only one.

It would also be fun to have rewards when you are in the top rank at the end of the month.

Edited by Kybaka
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1 hour ago, Ultrakool said:

Some good stuff in this thread. Just gonna add my two cents here:

There's a lot of comparison going on with the new and old system, but the fact of the matter is, there was barely an "old system". It was purely supposed to be a placeholder, with accelerated progression and rewards as expressed in the booster in 30 mins that was just arbitrarily created without much thought. Alas, with how the project progress turned out, and bigger priorities, we had that up as a placeholder for way too long, that now it feels like a standard that you compare new things to.

You make good points right there. Of course i compare the "old system" to the new system because its the only comparision we got. My concern is that it wont be easy to get started, so we need to find a way to make that a little bit easier. In adittion we need too tune the times in which you are able to get your rewards and add something to them (maybe the achievements can help with this) to get a healthy economy started. I like the catchup mechanic but it feels like players who play alot are not getting the deserved lead. This may sound weird but if i want to grind the game after the reset in every free minute i got i should be able to reach more than there is currently possible. Thats just my opinion. I do not want to sit around and complain, i want to be part of the solution. I will put my mind into this and try to propose some possible changes soon. maybe you like some of it. I will keep in mind your reasoning behind the system.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ultrakool said:

Some good stuff in this thread. Just gonna add my two cents here:

There's a lot of comparison going on with the new and old system, but the fact of the matter is, there was barely an "old system". It was purely supposed to be a placeholder, with accelerated progression and rewards as expressed in the booster in 30 mins that was just arbitrarily created without much thought. Alas, with how the project progress turned out, and bigger priorities, we had that up as a placeholder for way too long, that now it feels like a standard that you compare new things to.

Secondly, you are comparing the new rewards with the current market prices, which is a fallacy in itself, because it is generated from the old economy with the old system. There's alot of people who have acquired all the cards they could have wanted, and do not actively participate in the market place anymore, decreasing the supply of cards, causing hyperinflation of prices, and a certain monopoly in some cards, where new sellers can set whatever price they want, which generates alot of fluctuation. This economy could for example look drastically different with a reinvigorated playerbase, and a healthy marketplace environment.

Thirdly, similarly with calculating the "worth of a booster" is a very delicate thing, since that too depends on the supply and demand of a card. As prices rise in AH, a booster will also rise in value, which should stimulate more people to buy boosters. Pure boosters should not be easily dismissed for this reason, as alot of pure cards are also very high in value. We need to make some kind of price difference between all cards boosters and specific boosters or no one would buy the other. Now the actual price difference itself is still very much up for debate of course.

I hope i shed some light on some matters, and implore you guys not to give up on us yet! This is the very first iteration of a brand new untested system. Please don't be too harsh with us!

Not sure I agree on your second and third point, because why would/should someone sell an Infect for 499 BFP when people seem to be willing to pay 4 times as much and right now even more it seems? That is how markets tend to work, whatever people are willing to pay that will be the price and if prices are too low you hold on to your products for as long as possible hoping prices will rise. This unless markets are constantly - extremely - flooded with products. That is the only thing I believe will get prices down permanently. For the ultra rare/rare cards then many (many!) boosters needs to be opened for that to happen.   

This is then the case for very few cards (perhaps only 2-3 percent, obviously not counting the promos...) and unless the flood comes and stays this will happen forever and ever. For the other cards in the game I do not really see any problems, they are usually reasonably priced. It is just these few ones that will pose a problem.

"Give up" is not in my vocabulary, I will continue to argue on this matter, hopefully respectful and not harsh! ;)

// Ponni

PS. One good thing with the update now is 100 cards in the AH, that is very good! DS.

Edited by Ponni

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5 hours ago, Loriens said:

Keep in mind this upcoming change btw
image.png.cbb46781382bf13682c9975efad2d97d.png

I think this is actually very relevant on how early portions of the economy will play out compared to the current version of the game.
In the very early stages specific almost universally usefull common and uncommon cards were actually much more in demand than Infect, Netherwarp and it becomes very apparent why that is when you consider the situation players are in in the beginning.
You have very little cards or resources to actually build a deck which means that cards that cards that fullfill certain different criteria compared to the endgame suddenly become a LOT more valuable as they are also still very rare due to the limited amount of time the game is out.
So the first type of card is the essential t1 cards - especially units and a few key spells are important here - mostly t1 archers as well as Nomads in terms of units and then cards like Eruption and Surge of Light.

Secondly cards that are very easily splashable and offer great value for a vast amount of the game and/or offer a solution to a specific early game like charge problems. so cards like offering, furnace of flesh, Curse of Oink, Equilibrium, Regrowth, suddenly become mad valuable - because they are good cards that are still semi available and you get good value out of them in essentially any game you play.  

This will most likely massively effect how the economy will play out over the first 2-3 months at least. I assume players will much quicker go over to search for very specific rare and ultra rares instead of trying to build up their foundation of commons and uncommons with a few rare and ultra rares sprinkled into those decks that they get from boosters or are specifically searched for.

I dont think that the effect on the economy in terms of boosters not being given out as quest rewards will effect the game too much in the firist while after the launch because everyone is forced to buy these boosters to get an economy at all. The problem comes after that initial phase in my opinion, whereas compared to a lot of other games battleforge is as it stands right now an almost solved game or at least a game with a very strong meta game in both rPvE and PvP with a very high veteranship of its population which means that a lot of players are after very specific and in parts scarce cards that have comparatively low chances of dropping out of boosters which in turn are already relatively expensive.
The problem here is that I highly suspect that these players will be willing to pay crazy amounts for these cards because they KNOW what they get for it and do not have to experiment to figure out the best way to play which will further hinder the influx of cards into the market. That is at least how I approached the game in the last restart and I suspect that most people with a couple of years under their belt will do the same. To them the risk vs. reward of a booster will most likely not be worth it, especially early on, they just want to get their decks together.

I dont think the market will be as bad as people make it out to be, but I do believe that the current values will run into serious issues for especially people who are trying to follow the meta game, which is thanks to the relatively unique situation Battleforge as a game is in right now. That is - strong meta game with a lot of veterans reliant on few cards with relatively few alternative card choices with key cards being hard to come by from boosters and not readily available in the market ( due to restart and low drop rates) and initial concerns for common and uncommon cards being taken mostly care of by the change to the charge system.

I think if you are smart in the restart you try to get your hands on a workable tier 2 meta deck such as Lost Souls, Twilight or something of the like which can be build with a lot of commons and uncommons and a few for the most part not so sought after rares and ultra rares and then try to accumulate the highly sought after cards when you see a good opportunity in the auction house, to at least get a couple of charges of these relatively early when the accessible bfp values people have access to are not too high.
The economy for sure will build up slower as it seems to me that the current rate at which boosters are aquired seems to be a lot slower compared to now. i think that is fixable early on with a bunch of achievements to get the economy rolling a bit quicker by essentially giving out one time rewards, which become harder to come by (but with better rewards) the further you progress.
As I do not think that it was mentioned how this system plays into the economy exactly I will for simplicity ignore it for now and base the opinion above solely on the confirmed information for the current iteration of the BFP system.

 

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I would go even further and say that for the sake of discussion we can totally ignore market. Both today situation, past or future. Market is en equalization tool. If booster becomes worth it, people will start buying boosters instead, with excess selling on the market, driving market prices down. If effective booster price will decerease too much, people will buy off the market, driving the prices up. Eventually ending in some sort of steady state.

But for the reward system this is mostly irrelevant. Important thing is how the system is defined regardless the market. And this is quite simple -> how many boosters can I afford per time spent ingame. Current changes have increased the needed time to get new cards - and this is all what matters.

Current change also (please correct me if I am wrong) wanted to equalize a little bit difference between very active and not so active players, which  I personally approve.

But everyone will have less "boosters per minute" than the placeholder system. I think that this is a pity, because it is not fun to play Battleforge without the cards. Damo's calculations quite nicely illustrate the issue. 3 (probably very good PvE decks) is reasonable variety to play with. But also PvP deck is an adition. and non Battleground PvE decks adds additional time requirements. Please, dont make this game more grindy....

On a personal note, I have also enjoyed opening the booster after 30 mins of play and 30 mins of time is much easier for me to find than 60+ minutes...

 

 

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3 hours ago, VolvoxGlobator said:

I would go even further and say that for the sake of discussion we can totally ignore market. Both today situation, past or future. Market is en equalization tool. If booster becomes worth it, people will start buying boosters instead, with excess selling on the market, driving market prices down. If effective booster price will decerease too much, people will buy off the market, driving the prices up. Eventually ending in some sort of steady state.

But for the reward system this is mostly irrelevant. Important thing is how the system is defined regardless the market. And this is quite simple -> how many boosters can I afford per time spent ingame. Current changes have increased the needed time to get new cards - and this is all what matters.

Current change also (please correct me if I am wrong) wanted to equalize a little bit difference between very active and not so active players, which  I personally approve.

But everyone will have less "boosters per minute" than the placeholder system. I think that this is a pity, because it is not fun to play Battleforge without the cards. Damo's calculations quite nicely illustrate the issue. 3 (probably very good PvE decks) is reasonable variety to play with. But also PvP deck is an adition. and non Battleground PvE decks adds additional time requirements. Please, dont make this game more grindy....

On a personal note, I have also enjoyed opening the booster after 30 mins of play and 30 mins of time is much easier for me to find than 60+ minutes...

 

 

I agree 100%. Very good points.

The market will work itself out and it doesn't matter if card prices go up or down.

When card prices go up it is more economical to buy boosters and sell the cards at high value while adding more cards to the market which causes card prices to go down.

When card prices are too low, players will not buy boosters and instead just buy cards at the AH creating more demand while lifting prices up.

Eventually the market will balance itself at a certain point be stay stable until a new change takes place.

This thread is about the major shift to a much slower grind.

The grind for BFP have more than doubled as I illustrated at my above post.

After playing for couple of days I found myself very discouraged.

Right now there is no point for playing 60 minutes each day. There is also no point for playing every day.

One of my suggestions, to encourage players to play longer on a daily basis, would be to increase the booster discount from 100 BFP to 250 BFP after 60 minutes of game play (1 limit per day).

It doesn't even have to happen on the same day.

A player can play 40 minutes one day, and on the seconds day once he plays for 20 more minutes, he would then be able to buy 1 booster for 200 BFP instead of 450 BFP.

Make that change and you will see that players are much more encouraged to play, and play longer each day.

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Posted (edited)

The market is not really working.

 

The only change is now everyone is mostly avoiding buying and selling boosters. Now they just either wait for daily discount, or they don't buy at all. Daily booster discount is not a 100bfp benefit. It's a 350 bfp drain daily. Essentially the system is designed to suck bfp out of players who then also have to dump commons and uncommons to try to not lose more bfp. This benefits newbies.... and pretty much no one else.

 

Why is this bad? Boosters are now Cheap, cheap prices follow right? Market will correct itself? At worse no more idiot booster sellers right? No, the 350 bfp booster price is artificial, it's tied to the daily discount. The entire booster economy is tied psychologically to fact you can wait 24/7 to buy it at that price.

 

What actually has happened was you as a player earn less bfp for your time, specifically the 1st hour or so. Overall, that means everyone actually earns less bfp as a whole because LIFE DemanDs Yooooooouuuuuuuuuur PRESENCE!!!! So market Bfp spending went down too, Bfp is thus more valuable then before. Why would most players then use that harder to earn bfp on random boosters then? They want to save for that Overlord, they don't want to gamble it for promo 40+ boosters later... plus it's still 350 bfp drain a day. Wtf, gotta save baby, ain't got time for that!!

 

So now players got less bfp earned for their time, cheap boosters. Yet almost no one actually wants to buy boosters because they're saving Bfp for big purchases. They also earn less bfp overall now so now everyone is mostly funneling bfp to save to buy cards and the card supply is actually shrinking cause fewer booster openings, hence no Card price drops despite cheap boosters.

 

I don't know, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't, but cheaper boosters doesn't always mean cheaper prices as a whole.

 

*typos. :/

Edited by chickennoodler
Typos

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1 hour ago, chickennoodler said:

 

I don't know, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't, but cheaper boosters doesn't always mean cheaper prices as a whole.

 

It should be noted that proce of the boosters has to be compared to the earnings. If earnings went down by half (for certain type of the players at least) then 100 bfp discount does not compensate at all. (not even considering difficulty in acquiring the discount for some)

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