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T1 cards for Twilight, Stonekin and Bandits etc.


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Hi,  Just a thought for something in the future:  Why don't you make some T1 cards for Twilight, Stonekin, Bandits etc.  Currently we have to use the x4 initial elements Frost, Nature, Fire, and Shadow. 

Having these duel colour decks have their own unique T1 cards would add interesting scenarios and challenges to these decks, and it will add more variety as well.

Anyhow:  Just an idea!  Cheers!

JarodDempsey likes this
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If I remember correctly, the issue is that the game gives you your first orb color depending on which element you spawn first.
So if your first unit is a twilight unit, how can the game know what orb to select for you? 

WaterMelonLord likes this
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Yeah, half orbs are probably the "proper" way to allow for mixed faction T1 but seems awfully a lot of work and not sure if that is even possible with amount of access SR team has...

 

This could apply to any card and is fairly common in other (card) games but maybe have certain effects/abilities that need certain number of orbs/orb colors (like a T1 :frostorb: having ability that needs :natureorb:)? Even then seems hard to balance (how to make unit not too subpar for T1 and not too OP for T2 etc)...

WaterMelonLord likes this
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half-orbs are possible, but which orb would you want to get when first card you spawn is half-orb card? you can not select that orb, so it could create an situation in which it would be the only card you can play on T1, just because all other T1 are for the other orb. That is the reason why half-orb T1, or neutral T1 will not exist.

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42 minutes ago, Kubik said:

half-orbs are possible, but which orb would you want to get when first card you spawn is half-orb card? you can not select that orb, so it could create an situation in which it would be the only card you can play on T1, just because all other T1 are for the other orb. That is the reason why half-orb T1, or neutral T1 will not exist.

Would it be technically possible to have a Twilight T1 Card with Nature Affinity that leads to a nature orb? Or would that be not possible to define?

(The Affinity would be just to signal the nature orb to the player, and behind the scenes you make sure that card when first plays forces a nature orb)

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I have no clue how that orb selection works right now (no source code... 😞 ), no clue if it uses the card, or just the tokens in some event with no way of obtaining the card itself.
So as of right now not possible. (Maybe in the future, but not now)

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What if you can only play twilight, etc cards on t1 when you already have an orb on t1, so either fire or nature via a different unit. Similar to how magic the gathering dual mana cards work. 

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🤔 in MTG you need to play the mana, by "your human action" there is no "mana will be auto-magically played when you try to play a creature".

It would be confusing mechanic at best, why some T1 can be played and some not, not sure if we can even enforce it, but then you would most probably get even more confusing error message.

Kapo and Lans like this
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34 minutes ago, Dutchy said:

ye true, i don't think having mixed orb units at T1 is a good idea, unless someone has a brilliant idea. 

I mean - style-wise, it would be cool to have a complete Twilight deck starting with T1 minions or something. I think many of us would find that cool.

But as you said, it's not THAT important 😃

WaterMelonLord and Lans like this
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I suppose one way to make it happen is to not grant a pre-built orb anymore. Instead the player has to build the first orb manually. With a sped up building process or even near-instant.

So somewhat of a trade-off. A less seamless start to every map for the possibility of hybrid T1s.

Lans likes this
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16 hours ago, Cocofang said:

I suppose one way to make it happen is to not grant a pre-built orb anymore. Instead the player has to build the first orb manually. With a sped up building process or even near-instant.

So somewhat of a trade-off. A less seamless start to every map for the possibility of hybrid T1s.

Or implement it somewhere in the deck itself, so your orb auto-builds even faster at the start of the map (e.g. pre-define that I want my first orb to be fire). This has a few advantages
1). New players don't accidentally start with the wrong unit and thus build the wrong orb
2). PvP stalling is reduced (this is a strategy where neither player wants to play the first card, because they decide this based on what the opponent is playing. In fact Radical recommends this to 100% of nature players)
3). No problems with half orbs or neutral orb creatures in t1
4). Additional searchability (e.g. is that my stonekin deck with nature t1 or frost t1?)

Implementing this feature could be clunky. Maybe it could be an icon in the deck thumbnail (like small red circle for fire t1) which you can click to change? Or maybe give the deck some kind of border?

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1 hour ago, Kubik said:

🤔 game's source code when? 🤔

Never 🙂

2 hours ago, Eirias said:

Implementing this feature could be clunky. Maybe it could be an icon in the deck thumbnail (like small red circle for fire t1) which you can click to change? Or maybe give the deck some kind of border?

You could make it that the first card in the deck defines the orb, and it is signalled by a border around the deck.

On the other hand, how it currently works (playing the first card and the orb appears) looks mighty cool, would be sad to let this go.

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6 minutes ago, Kapo said:

You could make it

but how? without source code?

And what about people that have T4 on the left? will they need to reorder decks, or start without being able to play any card? and what about community maps where you start with more than one orb?

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22 minutes ago, Kubik said:

but how? without source code?

In my real work, I very often have to assist in creating solutions to hard problems that have to be creative and practical. People often think if you have a 50%-good-idea, that's the spot where "to work from", building upon it to make something excellent. But that's wrong.

While brainstorming, it's best practice to not care about any limitations, not even the physical limitations of the world. "What if we breed small goblins to put in the Skylords sever that always select the correct orb" is a valid idea. From 20 years of experience I can tell you, it's almost always the most crazy idea that creates the creative spark that leads to the superb solution, and it's never the practical, half-good idea that you should consider further. That may sound weird (to you and others), but I can assure you that the "but how?"-question should be of no concern at this point - inserting this question is more likely to hamper efforts to come up with something really good.

Dutchy and Metagross31 like this
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  • 3 months later...

Bit of necrobump, but hey, I liked the quote about solving problems through small goblins! Or something along those lines...

Had this idea for combined T1 units for a bit, and might as well get it out of my system. Basically it goes like this: spawning combined cards (LS, Stonekin, Twilight, Amii, Bandit...) as your first action will grant you a mixed orb. This orb acts as in the meantime as both required colors, but ONLY until you cast some single orb card (let's say, a nature one) after which the orb will instantly turn to Nature one. After that, everything works as usual. You can still use Twilight T1 cards, or pure Nature ones as well.

In the case player only uses combined cards and finds his second orb, the only orb the game will allow to build will be orb from the combination. Picking one will automatically turn the first (combined) orb to the appropriate color. 

Example:

Player summons Twilight archers (hypothethical Twilight T1 card), thus getting a Twilight orb (Nature/Fire). After spawning bunch of units and going on the offensive, the player uses Ensnaring roots, which changes the Twilight orb into a Nature one. Game progresses as usual.

Example 2:

Player summons Twilight archers (hypothethical Twilight T1 card), thus getting a Twilight orb (Nature/Fire). After spawning bunch of units and going on the offensive, the player gains acces to extra wells and an second orb. He can only build Nature of Fire orb as his second one, and chooses Fire. The first Twilight orb changes to Nature once the Fire orb completes. Game progresses as usual.

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good idea, you only forget to mention where we can get source code of the game to be able to implement it.

And I see an issue with second orb scenario, what if player want to play 3 or 4 color deck? Would he really need to build an orb, just to destroy it instantly?

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7 minutes ago, Kubik said:

good idea, you only forget to mention where we can get source code of the game to be able to implement it.

And I see an issue with second orb scenario, what if player want to play 3 or 4 color deck? Would he really need to build an orb, just to destroy it instantly?

Oh, I forgot about the source code. Guess this is where the goblins come to play!

I am not sure, if I understand the problem in such scenario. If someone wants to play even 4 different colors, he can. But if he choses a combined T1 cards as his first, that will only force him to play the second orb within these constraints. The other orbs (3rd and 4th) are unnafected and can be chosen freely. 

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but why that restriction at all? why not give the orb option to switch, and count is as neutral for T2 and above, so it can not be abused, and player needs to chose. Forcing second orb to a specific color(s) seems weird. (note that neither is fully possible, but my variation, is much closer to being possible)

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My idea with the 2nd orb restriction was that the uncertainity of the combination orb should be resolved as fast as possible within the match.

Of course, there are more ways to fix it - for example, clicking on the Twilight orb could bring up the two colors it is made of and make player pick, before being able to build next orb. Or neutral orbs, or any other of myriad possibilities. 

Shame that all these ideas are hypotethical at best. 

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Well I think I can make twilight orb,

I think I can make it work for spawning cards (with correct restrictions I mentioned),

Spoiler

Insert I think I can .... not sure if it is on the not to say list 😛

I can give it new shooting spell that will have color according to the orb color

I think I can give it two abilities to switch to the single color variation

So for my variant only 2 things are missing:
Designers decision
And testing if it actually works

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