Wish to contribute to the project by donating? Heads up to our Patreon -> https://www.patreon.com/skylordsreborn

Jump to content
BEWARE: Multiaccounting May Cause Permabans! Read more... ×
Urmeli

Build in Expert Strategy Replays

Recommended Posts

Hello together,

today I spend some time looking at the PvE Rankings. And i was very suprised/impressed about some teams which were able to finish maps within only a few minutes.

It would be very interesting to watch the replays of these games. Therefor I like to request a feature adding the game replays to the Ranking page, so that everyone can watch how the impressive Map times have been achieved.

It would be nice if this feature can be added.

Best Regards Urmel

5.jpg

Edited by Urmeli
Navarr likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, because these teams work hard in some cases to get these spots on leaderbords, so giving out their replay would make it much easier for other to take their place, they work so hard for.

nofearek9 and ikke2902 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the same opinion like Kubik has. I understand that you are interested to see the replays and to see what we are doing but we trained lot of hours for this and so we need to keep up some secrets. But if you may need some advice how to play a Expert Map fast you can contact me. In future i am also willing to share some replays to the BF community. Still need to play it perfect in my opinion. For 2 and 4player maps it is the decision of the whole team not just one person.

I think when you have a basic understanding of the maps and a feeling how a speedruns works you can work out some crazy tactics with your own team. If you just want to watch be patient until we or some other players will reveal some replays to the BF community.

RadicalX likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is not just my opinion, it was discussed in the team long ago, and decided.

An I believe (this is only my opinion) all maps can be found on youtube.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the old days you could see the deck the run was accomplished with. I guess seeing this feature back again would help the competition quite a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a bunch of maps showing the deck makes the used strategy relatively obvious which results in a similar issue as showing the replay, if to be fair to a smaller extend.

I understand that it is probably interesting to see the decks used for the best times but the effort to build and develop those decks and strategies still get undermined.

RadicalX likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lorddreis said:

Will we ever have new content? Like new cards, features or maps? 

Yea, we kinda have new features already.

- Resizeable chat windows
- Quests and achievements
- New loot list
- Upgrades are now buyable with Gold instead of Tokens
- Tokens, Elements of X, Tomes removed

More is to come once we hit Open Beta or any future iteration which is more stable than this one and doesn't require an account reset.

Eirias likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/29/2019 at 10:17 AM, Treim said:

For a bunch of maps showing the deck makes the used strategy relatively obvious which results in a similar issue as showing the replay, if to be fair to a smaller extend.

I understand that it is probably interesting to see the decks used for the best times but the effort to build and develop those decks and strategies still get undermined.

So in your opinion it's better for the community when only a handful players know the maps and compete with each other?

I think most speedrun tactics have been developed by the community over the years and now it's all about who has the replays and remembers the stuff best. So it would be only fair to not exclude 99% of the players from playing speedruns because they needed to put too much time into researching etc. Imho rankings should be about skill too, not only knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have a points that most "best" strategies (if not all) already exist, and that it should be about skill not knowledge, which is bit debatable, but with the first fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not the case that I remember all the strategies either. I probably remember a few pieces and bits of information more than most players but a lot of strategies or pieces of them are wildly known or on Youtube. 

Putting those together again is still a lot of work with research and trial and error. I don‘t quite see why i would share that instantly with just about anyone. 

You got the pieces relatively freely available - do your research and use yor own time on or wait for someone to publicize them freely. 

Even is this new stage there is already a new strategy for Guns of Lyr which took several evenings to get to, before you even practiced it. Dwarven Riddle we did research and found out a piece of information that we didn‘t know beforehand and helps greatly. Again multiple hours of research. Convoy we had to reverse engineer the whole strategy as well and are STILL working it out after multiple evenings. Similar things can be said for Soultree, Slavemaster and Sunbridge on my end. 

Why would anyone have the right to just access those gains without my consent. I obviously don‘t expect people to share their strategies either. It is half the fun of speedrunning anyways. Seeing the little improvements of time or the elated feeling you have when you find a new piece of information.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe as a little addition: 

This doesn‘t mean that i will/would never share replays with the community. I just believe it is wrong to have it as the default option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see your point when we talk about publicly showing the replays, because you've put a lot of time and effort into it. But why not show the deck to at least give a hint in the right direction?

ps: What I find really strange is that the secretism about PvE strategies is so overly exaggerated while in PvP where the direct competition is much more relevant, people are much more willing to tell their secrets and dirty tricks. Maybe that's because it's harder to hide tactics from the public there, but I rather think people see the benefits of a healthy competition. Nobody wants to be rank 1 on a ladder of noobs not quite as knowledgeable players.

Edited by Navarr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Navarr said:

I can see your point when we talk about publicly showing the replays, because you've put a lot of time and effort into it. But why not show the deck to at least give a hint in the right direction?

ps: What I find really strange is that the secretism about PvE strategies is so overly exaggerated while in PvP where the direct competition is much more relevant, people are much more willing to tell their secrets and dirty tricks. Maybe that's because it's harder to hide tactics from the public there, but I rather think people see the benefits of a healthy competition. Nobody wants to be rank 1 on a ladder of noobs not quite as knowledgeable players.

ln most cases they do, which is understandable but slows overal progress for everyone. 

I would suggest the following: it is up to the best speedrunners to reveal their strategies but if they do they get some extra bonus like BFP or a special title or something so those who really want to stay #1 and receive nothing for it except their name on the ranked lists can stay there but others can share their knowledge and be rewarded? Something like this would be interesting to see how much people value their strategies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Navarr said:

So in your opinion it's better for the community when only a handful players know the maps and compete with each other?

I think most speedrun tactics have been developed by the community over the years and now it's all about who has the replays and remembers the stuff best. So it would be only fair to not exclude 99% of the players from playing speedruns because they needed to put too much time into researching etc. Imho rankings should be about skill too, not only knowledge.

I cant agree in this point. Most of our tactis were developed by ourself - we did not create just simple copies of existing tactics. We developed tactics on a higher Level - we invested a lot of time and trained for this a lot. If you share all the tactics to the community everybody will simple copy it . I think for speedrunning you should start to understand the mechanics of every single map by yourself. In this way you may can create better tactics and you will also be able to compete against the existing speedrunning teams.

If you know a good strategy for a pve map you can repeat it again and again until it is nearly perfect. As a consequence of this the situation is much different compared to PVP. In PVP every match can be different - so in my opinion it is no problem to share tactics here . Depending from the single situation in PVP you can decide which tactic or card combo you may like to use in the match.

Also showing the deck can be critical for the Top 3 rankings. Just one different card can make the difference here. It is not always possible to hide a strategy by adding stupid cards in it - for some speedrun decks i am using every single card because it is mandatory. If you understand the mechanics of a speedrun and the map an experienced player can read the strategy the other team may used just by checking just the deck. I can say this from my own experience - lot of tactics were copied from me and my team mates in this simple way. You also can recognize this right now - if we would show our new decks for guns of lyr speedrun everybody would get a good idea how we are able to finish this map so fast. Motivated players should better reflect for themself how this map may can be done faster and they should invest the same time to train possible tactics.

Edited by Pritstift

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not worry we will not show your speed-running, if you lose your replay and will want to share it (for a good reason, to not copy 1000s replays per day) we can copy you the server replay.

Navarr said that many of these strategies are already on youtube, which is true, so I think it could be true that it is easy to repeat them. I was never anywhere on the tables, so I just do not know.

For PvP replays it was decided that replays will probably be public at some point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kubik said:

Do not worry we will not show your speed-running, if you lose your replay and will want to share it (for a good reason, to not copy 1000s replays per day) we can copy you the server replay.

Navarr said that many of these strategies are already on youtube, which is true, so I think it could be true that it is easy to repeat them. I was never anywhere on the tables, so I just do not know.

For PvP replays it was decided that replays will probably be public at some point.

Just my thoughts onto the PvP idea: I personally do like it, but just keep in mind, that some people don't want certain matches to be seen (testing new or special decks, tournament prep, practicing to play out losing positions and so on). Having this for ranked games is a good idea, but for sparring games not so much. 

And regarding the speedrun discussion I really do agree, that certain map strategies simply are way more valuable compared to PvP, which makes it reasonable to hide the strategies. 

 

Hirooo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least i now know the reason for the missing response on my Replay Request Thread:

It seems to be a mixture of competition and missing consent of the other Players in 2/4 player Maps.

Which is OK, and i understand why you won't automatically share your winning tactics.

But wouldn't it be great for the community if some Groups voluntarily share replays of the rankings like above 10 or 20?

(Maybe bad runs, or early runs where some additional key information in missing)

(Or Groups which get a Map done nicely, but don't mind their Ranking)

So the best groups can keep their secrets and the community gets better.

And again my reason for requesting Replays instead of Youtubes:

On Youtube you only see only one Point of View, mostly the Map deciding Player.

But what do the other Players do?, each Position has a specific Task.

For example MephistoRoss was so kind to take me into some 4 Player Maps. (Thanks again!)

Those Replays are pure Gold for our Group, because we found no Information what each Player is supposed to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

everyone is allowed to share their replays, so when you get 1#you can share your replay with whoever you want. But we will not force people to do it, or share their replays without their permission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I speak on behalf of my team namely Asgard57, ducarev , aka , Alex-serg , AntoXaa . And it will be about our guesses my team made guns of lyr for 5.1. seconds after which the other team does the same thing and this team of German players !!!! After that, we began to have doubts about their game and That my doubts and doubt my team vanished, I want to offer an exchange of replays !!! And if they have copied the game as we have then I have no choice but to blame the fact that they had our replay and they watched it !!!! Not without the help of German developers !!! Well, if they replay a will vary with our I will apologize to all whom I offended !!!! And I want to hear the opinion of the team I'm talking about !!! And in case of failure to exchange replays!!! I urge the administration to resolve this conflict !!! So as we 2 team which show best times on all maps and if my rivals enjoy somehow the priemuschestvom the I not see sense play !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.