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Readymade

Economy, quests, gold and rewards

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Hello everyone,

I just had the pleasure to complete some maps and get some boosters via archivements and the daily quests. And i came to the point, that the economic system in Skylords Reborn will crash really fast with that many booster and possibilities to get rare and uncommon cards so fast. Maybe you should think about the following changes in future, as soon as the server runs and you got time for stuff like that:

 

- More quests that will reward you with special cards or even with the normal commons - it is hard to get even normal common cards

- enable the mini booster again so that people can get more commons/uncommons faster and build up their decks

- enable the tokens to buy upgrades instead of gold. I've finished some lvl 5 PVE Maps and got 1250 Gold from every map - so i can upgrade almost 8-10 cards to level 1 by simply finish one map with a noob deck. Thats too easy. With tokens I've spend hours on grinding them to upgrade my cards and there is no reason for me to complete normale campaign maps to gain my upgrades

- instead of upgrade cards you should maybe think about deck cards which can be looted on normal maps with a small chance


I think that everyone will own a full upgraded deck within some weeks, once the server is running with a massive amount of rares and just upgrade lvl 3 cards. It's not a challenge anymore to gain your upgrades because of the massive amount of gold everyone can earn with pve maps.

What are your thought folks? Let me know!






Thx again to the devs and I know that we are still in a really early phase of the game and the dev and that we got some other problems atm which are more important but we should not forget about stuff like I've mentioned above

 

Neox and Chibiterasu like this

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So I am taking a short break from studying now, your post will be a great distraction. :kappa: 

I generally agree that it shouldn't be too easy to earn card upgrades and being spammed with rares will kind of take the thrill out of the AH imo.
Yet you should consider that we will lose our cards from time to time due to server updates - so right now I think it's a great way to take the edge off, how frustrating would it be grinding for weeks to just start from zero the other day?


Furthermore I think it should be possible to earn the card upgrades not only by doing rPVE or only by completing campaign missions, just like the players have different preferences, the looting system should be just as flexible.

Back to the idea of earning cards by missions - these cards wouldn't be worth as much in AH anymore and idk wether I like the idea or not. It could also affect their rareness: if you could earn a rare card just by completing a mission it would technically become a common card - like moon, wasn't it a legendary card even?

I am absolutely pro mini booster packs, especially if it is that easy to get rares atm. :gem:

Btw: Do you use a strong Internet connection? I was figuring maybe some people (like me) won't get into the game because of a low data rate.

 

Readymade likes this

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Isnt the gold gain increased for testing purposes? Should clear that first, because Threads like this might come up every day. Right now its kina useless to speculate because the Beta isnt over and you do not have any fixed numbers to do your Magic with.

Edited by DominikS
Readymade likes this

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Thanks for the replies. Of course they are not final yet and I just wanted to give a feedback here, so that the team can balance rewards and all the stuff later based on feedback and testing.

 

37 minutes ago, Kunzekalauer said:

So I am taking a short break from studying now, your post will be a great distraction. :kappa: 

I generally agree that it shouldn't be too easy to earn card upgrades and being spammed with rares will kind of take the thrill out of the AH imo.
Yet you should consider that we will lose our cards from time to time due to server updates - so right now I think it's a great way to take the edge off, how frustrating would it be grinding for weeks to just start from zero the other day?


Furthermore I think it should be possible to earn the card upgrades not only by doing rPVE or only by completing campaign missions, just like the players have different preferences, the looting system should be just as flexible.

Back to the idea of earning cards by missions - these cards wouldn't be worth as much in AH anymore and idk wether I like the idea or not. It could also affect their rareness: if you could earn a rare card just by completing a mission it would technically become a common card - like moon, wasn't it a legendary card even?

I am absolutely pro mini booster packs, especially if it is that easy to get rares atm. :gem:

Btw: Do you use a strong Internet connection? I was figuring maybe some people (like me) won't get into the game because of a low data rate.

 

I got a good internet connection but that should not affect the login chances. It's pure luck maybe ;)

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While i agree it shouldn't be to fast to gain cards and upgrades it should neither be to slow. The major issue i see is that PvP and to a degree speedruns are that balanced around fully upgraded and close to fully charges decks. Especially some decks require quite a few UR's to be playable at the highest level. Speedruns have similar issues to a lower degree as often only a handful of UR's need to be fully or close to fully charged on most maps. There is a lot of maps though and while some cards are played in multiple that is still quite the variety of cards in addition to "normal" decks.
Same goes for PvP -i doubt most players are fine with playing only 1 deck (especially towards the top end of the ladder).

Finding a balance is key between not making it to had but also allowing the competitive scene getting to the point where they are actually meaningful and playable in any way in a reasonable time.
As we are still pre Beta there is a lot of time to figure this out for the dev team together with input from the community and as similar threads (for both directions) were made aplenty before the dev team knows about finding the right balance ;)

RadicalX and Fimion like this

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I agree the actual reward system is a little... too random.
I'm struggling to get basic frost cards but hey, i got a lot of good t4 and a Brannoc level 2 already, lmao.

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I enjoy PvE well enough but my primary love and reason for playing this game is PvP. I can't do that without a wide diversity of cards and a fully upgraded deck. I have no urge to grind for upgrades or cards for weeks and weeks just to finally be able to play some PvP. 

I think "grind walls" are only needed to hide holes in game playability which I firmly think BattleForge does not possess. You should be playing the game for the sake of the game being fun in and of itself, and seeing as such a large community invested so large an effort to bring a game back, I think we can all agree that Battleforge is an incredibly fun game. For this reason, I strongly ask our fearless leaders to not slow down rewards for the sake of those who enjoy grinding and instead focus on promoting what is the greatest asset of BattleForge, its fun and diverse gameplay.

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yeah the daily booster quest is op but its not the final form of the game and cards will be reset so talking about this is pretty pointless. The devs said things will change, as you can see the reroll quest is work in progress too so they will change this for sure and they will also add the different type of boosters(?)

but hey as it is still in beta and its hard to login/play we should be happy that getting cards is easier now

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I can't say anything about balancing boosters, since I was able to finish 3 maps and got only 2 of such boosters (with barely anything inside), so my insight isn't really valuable. But since it's a problem maybe let's change daily to the small booster and quest reward to be standard booster instead?

But regarding the gold/upgrades from maps: it would be lovely to look into rewards you get from rPvE vs those from standard PvE maps/PvP games.

At this moment some 1P standard maps are taking about 40 minutes for 2 updates. I won't mention 2P/4P maps, where you may not get anything at all.
At the same time, with completely basic deck, you can do 4P 5-6 rPvE like 2-3 times and just buy all those upgrades instead of grinding those.

Also would suggest to look into daily questing system. In many games  creators moved from "we choose quests for you (randomly or not)" to "you have a group of quests designed for all possibile actions you can take in the game - just pick 3 of those and have fun". I remember a lot of people in the original BF game were like "we're playing only PvP/only PvE, we don't like the other option". Why to force people to do something they don't like (i.e. for me this would be "play 4 PvP games"), when we can encourage to do something, they like spending their time on?

"Spend 15 minutes in any game" is great, since it affects both PvP-only/PvE-only/"don't care" type of players. Now let's maybe make other quests a choice - for example "play 4 1P standard maps or 4 1vs1 PvP games" and "play 2 2P/4P/12P maps or 2 2vs2 PvP games". Just an idea though.

Edited by pabi

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i started playing yesterday and im frustrated and kinda disappointed. consider this: Skylords is a dead-thought game, played only by about 500-1500 Battleforge-loyalists and about 50-150 of them are online at all times you log in. this old games only reason to still exist is nostalgia, so why not give the players the chance to reexperience their best decks?

whats the point of grinding in the game? we all lost our good decks and want nothing else than to play and tinker (i spent probably more time with tinkering with my decks than actually playing it, i really enjoyed that) with them again. now i got to start with a noob deck again, thats not fun at all, its repetition. whats the point of locking the cards behind a "not-paywall" of grinding if there is no money involved anymore? sure its not close as bad as it was under EA reign, but even EA gave us all the cards to play around with in the last few weeks of Battleforges existance.

imo there are a few ways to make it easier for re-beginning players (and yes, im not using "new players" for a reason since there are very likely none, just those who knew and played Battleforge):

1. unlock all the cards for all the players like in the last few weeks of battlefroge. sure it will hurt the economy of the game a bit but first, its ridiculously overblown due to BFP inflation and second, those who want to maximise their decks will need to buy multiples anyway. so let those players that want to grind their deck to the max grind the upgrades, but sont make us grind for the cards.

2. give starters 10/20/30/50 boosters to start up again, so they have at least a few options to beginn with other than the bad starter cards (having no XL T4 melee really hurts, a Grimvine would be a good start). we all went through this before and as i allready said, repetition is no fun.

3. give starters a few hundred BFP go get a few decent cards of their choice, that would also help a lot.

i talked with a few people ingame now and while they say the grinding isnt that bad, and i believe them, not one of them is absolutely sure he will still play as soon as everything gets reset and he would have to re-grind everything for the third time. in fact, many of them plan to leave for good once this happens.

i personally would obviously prefer the first option. i loved to create dozens of decks, really enjoyed it. i remember that i made about 15 decks of stonekin alone: decks that started pure nature or frost and mixed later, or were mixed from the start and only differed in the T1 units, buildings and spells, decks that had no T3 units because of the amii monument, decks with and without wheel of gifts (i really enjoyed the stonekin decks when Deepfang came out bc i had no decent Stonekin T3 units until then due to Rageflame being ridiculously overpriced), deffensive and offensive decks, pure support decks, the list goes on and on. same goes for lost souls which was my second favorite faction to play.

i apologise for the wall of text but i hope i got a few points across that are important to me.

Greetings from Switzerland :)

PS: since its still a BETA, wouldnt it make sense to unlock all the cards for all players? more players using all the cards means more experiences means more bugs found and reported for fixing.

Edited by Genesis23

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On 9/11/2018 at 6:00 PM, Treim said:

While i agree it shouldn't be to fast to gain cards and upgrades it should neither be to slow. The major issue i see is that PvP and to a degree speedruns are that balanced around fully upgraded and close to fully charges decks. Especially some decks require quite a few UR's to be playable at the highest level. Speedruns have similar issues to a lower degree as often only a handful of UR's need to be fully or close to fully charged on most maps. There is a lot of maps though and while some cards are played in multiple that is still quite the variety of cards in addition to "normal" decks.
Same goes for PvP -i doubt most players are fine with playing only 1 deck (especially towards the top end of the ladder).

Finding a balance is key between not making it to had but also allowing the competitive scene getting to the point where they are actually meaningful and playable in any way in a reasonable time.
As we are still pre Beta there is a lot of time to figure this out for the dev team together with input from the community and as similar threads (for both directions) were made aplenty before the dev team knows about finding the right balance ;)

This issue is actually caused by bad card balance.

If you have opened a booster, got an ultra rare card, 2 rares and 5 commons, and all of those cards are completely useless, the booster was a waste of time. I've opened dozens of boosters since the open beta started and the amount of situational cards that can never be used in competitive games was insane. It's just lame to open a booster, get a rare card and that card won't be useable in any deck because it's crap and doesn't serve a purpose. 

Once the core functions for this game are working there should be a collective about making certain cards viable alternatives to the most-used/required cards, esp. for pvp.
In a second step the useless/niche cards should be revisited. Cards need to have a proper use. If they don't they shouldn't drop in boosters.

If this is done the boosters automatically become a lot more "worth", simply because the cards themselves will be more useful. 

etc. etc. if that is done with like 50 cards you'll notice that there will be much more incentive to get boosters and get more balanced AH prices for a variety of currently overpriced cards.

This is not about nerfing "meta cards", it's more about buffing other cards to provide viable alternatives to them. Sure, you won't be able to make a card like "Wallbreaker" a useful t1 card for fire (unless you play 100% of the time on Lajesh) but there are dozens of cards that can become useful with some minor changes.

Examples:

Shadow t2 decks: usually M/M unit is Nightcrawler. Making Eliminator viable you get 2 card choices instead of 1 for this slot (so it's double the chance to have a useful Shadow M/M unit in a booster)
Natur/Fire : making the Twilight units worth their power cost to make them alternatives to core units like Ghost spears etc.
Frost: tweaking some useless spell cards, especially in t1, and the towers (maybe based on my suggestion in the other thread) : 

And yes this should be done. Just because it's possible to play the game according to the old meta doesn't mean that there can't be improvements. And having multiple units that are equally useful in their role will do a lot.

Phenomic even has done this themselves. They added units like Witchclaws as alternatives to the Dreadcharger, for example. 

If this is not done the game community will die relatively fast, with only a couple nostalgics left over.

Edited by DarcReaver

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32 minutes ago, DarcReaver said:

This issue is actually caused by bad card balance.

If you have opened a booster, got an ultra rare card, 2 rares and 5 commons, and all of those cards are completely useless, the booster was a waste of time. I've opened dozens of boosters since the open beta started and the amount of situational cards that can never be used in competitive games was insane. It's just lame to open a booster, get a rare card and that card won't be useable in any deck because it's crap and doesn't serve a purpose. 

Once the core functions for this game are working there should be a collective about making certain cards viable alternatives to the most-used/required cards, esp. for pvp.
In a second step the useless/niche cards should be revisited. Cards need to have a proper use. If they don't they shouldn't drop in boosters.

If this is done the boosters automatically become a lot more "worth", simply because the cards themselves will be more useful. 

etc. etc. if that is done with like 50 cards you'll notice that there will be much more incentive to get boosters and get more balanced AH prices for a variety of currently overpriced cards.

This is not about nerfing "meta cards", it's more about buffing other cards to provide viable alternatives to them. Sure, you won't be able to make a card like "Wallbreaker" a useful t1 card for fire (unless you play 100% of the time on Lajesh) but there are dozens of cards that can become useful with some minor changes.

Examples:

Shadow t2 decks: usually M/M unit is Nightcrawler. Making Eliminator viable you get 2 card choices instead of 1 for this slot (so it's double the chance to have a useful Shadow M/M unit in a booster)
Natur/Fire : making the Twilight units worth their power cost to make them alternatives to core units like Ghost spears etc.
Frost: tweaking some useless spell cards, especially in t1, and the towers (maybe based on my suggestion in the other thread) : 

And yes this should be done. Just because it's possible to play the game according to the old meta doesn't mean that there can't be improvements. And having multiple units that are equally useful in their role will do a lot.

Phenomic even has done this themselves. They added units like Witchclaws as alternatives to the Dreadcharger, for example. 

If this is not done the game community will die relatively fast, with only a couple nostalgics left over.

Thats all nice and dandy and i agree with the point of making more cards viable, it however only touches my one factor that plays into the topic of discussion

I agree that havin more viable cards will allow you to get to a viable deck faster and will alleviate the issue, it does not however completely negate the issue unless you make every card about equally good for competitive play which is a unrealistic assumption to make imo, especially upon release. I think it is pretty unlikely that there will be a lot of card changes early on or even pre release which is the main timeframe where my argument matters. People that join later on, this will certainly help though.

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Of course, it's impossible to make all cards viable. I've stated that myself in my post.

But it's pretty sure to say that for every meta card there is at least one other card with the same or a similar role and orb/tier requirement.

If you focus on those first you'll already have like 60 additional cards that can be used, which is easily a lot.  

Edited by DarcReaver

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37 minutes ago, DarcReaver said:

Of course, it's impossible to make all cards viable. I've stated that myself in my post.

But it's pretty sure to say that for every meta card there is at least one other card with the same or a similar role and orb/tier requirement.

If you focus on those first you'll already have like 60 additional cards that can be used, which is easily a lot.  

Yeah but i doubt that that will be a thing upon release either which ist where the rate of acquiring viable cards is most crucial :)

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Hello ,

 Some sugestions for future economy:

1.Implement that 2bfp card 'pack' for common/uncommon cards.

2.Make rare/ultra rare cards harder to obtain.Soultion fot this is to change daily quest from 1 bootser to 25bfp, and the other ones to 2-5 bfp.

3.Make easyer to get upgrades and harder to get cards.(so we can be quiet strong without rare ultra rare cards).Solution for this poit is to implement gold rewards too, for daily quests and achievments.

4.Create more achievments with gold/bfp/booster rewards.Examples:

-create a nature/xx deck

-create a nature/xx deck with lvl 10 or above

-create a nature/xx deck with lvl XX or above

-finish xx campaign standard/advanced/expert mode

-use 20/100/XXX spells in campaign mode

-summon 20/100/XXX units in camaign mode

-spend 1000/XXXX power in campaign mode

-win 5/xx/xx random pve level 1

-win 5/xx/xx random pve level x

-play 10/xx/xx solo pve games.

-play 10/xx/xx multiplayer pve games

-win xx/xx/xx pvp

-play xx/xx/xx pvp

-play xx min. SkylordsReborn

-complete xx /xx achievments

-and so on...

These are my sugestions for now.I'm intrested in your opinion feel free to comment these.Maybe I add some ideas later.

And yes , there are so many useless cards, you could rethink their ability and strategy, it would make more fun opening boosters and playing the game.I think thats why EA closed thia game , became boring too fast.

Thanks.

Edited by VT69

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If you have some crazy ideas for achievements and/or quests feel free to post them here:

The basic ones are covered already but especially for the more endgame achievements (mostly map specific) there is quite a lot of room for suggestions :)

@VT69

Edited by Treim

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