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September Patch Feedback Thread


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Hello everyone,

It has been a week now since the patch has released, and while this is not exactly a long time, I wanted to open a discussion and encourage everyone to provide feedback on the changes we have made to the game. Below are some of the topics of which we are most interested in soliciting feedback, though feel free to offer any suggestions regarding the patch and the current direction of the game. 

What do you think of our first PvE nerfs? Do the various decks still feel usable? Have they changed much at all, etc.?

Do you like the changes to card and factions (PvE and PvP)? Why or why not? Where did we hit the mark, and implement something exciting you'd like to see more of? Where did you miss the mark and what should we avoid in the future? Do you enjoy the new cards, are they balanced, etc.?

What do you think of the map changes?

You can also join us at our balance discord to further discuss changes to cards: https://discord.gg/jrGEBG9NT5

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Okay, then I'll make a start. First let me say that I'm not having a particularly good day, don't put too much stock in my single opinion.

Haven't played much lately and seem a bit rusty in general.

I have only tested 2 things seriously the last 2 days this was:

The Batariel deck has simply slipped into the middle class in my opinion, sure you can still play it, but it's a run-of-the-mill deck like you mostly see in random groups anyway (wrong orbs; hardly any, no and/or wrong buffs and there's then a single Bata running around that actually only has enlightenment in common with the usual buffed Bata deck).
On stronger maps, the burn is too weak to clear necessary threats in time and it dies quickly these days when the camps are a bit harder.
Too bad, I'm curious whether the better players can still get something out of here, from the first feeling the deck unfortunately falls completely out of the meta. Possibly further a Speedrun alternative on very easy Bandit maps.

The second thing I looked at is the Twilight Deck, unfortunately I find here (at least from meta point of view) not much new. The dragon buff as well as the creeper buff are nice, but nothing more - the Abo Spelldeck remains the king in the ring. Nightshade in T3 is a possibility, but I suspect that this will remain more of a casual approach, but finally nice to have the alternative, although especially here Twilight T3 already had 2 strong units. But since XL are always very popular, the masses will be happy and probably grab here.

A more Unit based Twilight deck will be a bit stronger with the patch, but thanks to the Nox Cloud and the Creeper Buff, the Abo deck has increased to the same extent.

The transformation overhaul has no relevance to me so far in the pve, in fact I had to look up what else changed there in the patch notes. As before, the slot gain because of the "internal" Breeding Ground remains the main advantage for me here.
All in all, I think there is unfortunately more work in here than you can feel in the Twilight deck 😞 I hope Twilight is not yet finished here, although I can imagine that the PvP impact is significantly greater.

My conclusion: So far the patch that gives me the least pleasure. The Buffed Bata deck has slipped more than 1 tier imo and after the Bandit rework I had hoped for a little bit more with Twilight, but I don't want to be unfair, I realize how much time and effort is put into this. The small changes to Spells, Units are very nice and please me very well, including the nerfs of Decomposer and Frenetic. (The revisions to the buildings also read very nice, only I never actually play them ^^)

I thank you very much for your work, hope it's not brazen to hope for something more in Twilight.

Ahhhh - wait - one thing I have almost forgotten. Pure Fire I've also been playing since the patch, and it feels really nice. The overdue boost in sustain from both the deck and NPC side (aka Dancer rework) feel good and make the deck a lot more rounded. Moloch normal speed when? 😛

mostly translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Edited by Volin
found some typos, if you find more please just keep them :D
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I just played rPvE 9 with my old single Bata(R) deck and im really shocked by how weak it has become vs Bandits i havent played vs other factions yet but im pretty sure i wont be able to win against them. Are there any good single Batariel decks left or has Batariel(R) been nerfed to death?

Batariel(P) is still good in my opinion.

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Ok so i played a few rPvE matches with my Batariel deck vs various enemy factions.

Purple Batariel is weaker but still pretty good and when combined with Fire Dragons he is almost OP but red Batariel has really been nerfed to death and now the classic single Batariel deck is almost unplayable.

I know Batariel(R)+Buff decks were very powerful but nobody was forced to use them and there are other very powerful combos too like Wasteland Terror+Corsair+Unity+Bloodthirst which completely destroy every enemy faction at least in rPvE9 not even Lost Souls are a challenge.

I would really like to know why there was no topic in the Cards section of the forum to discuss Batariel before making any changes. There are topics for cards like Colosus and Necroblaster but not for Batariel who is a much more popular card.

Instead of ruining good and popular cards and in this case even entire decks better focus on making useless cards like Willzapper Waysatation Twilight Hag and many others useful.

Edited by Fundus
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Can you please provide replays that showcase Enlightened Bata was nerfed to death?

Deck is far from ruined, thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses. You have near limitless amounts of energy at your disposal, as is normal with single-unit decks. So you can lay down an Armageddon of spells. Unholy Hero + Gates of Hell still deals ungodly damage and Purgatory provides consistent AoE DPS and clear. Enlightened Bata can still solo camps.

Also, complaining about "ruined good and popular cards" when unused, bad cards still exist is so not fair, given the fact that the entire patch history since release up to this very patch was almost exclusively massive buffs after buffs after buffs to everything across the board. Never have more decks and cards been strong and viable in the history of the game. And extra care has been taken to make this the case before even rolling out the first nerfs so nobody is left with nothing. Even if Enlightened Bata wasn't alive and well there has never been such a wealth of options to choose from.

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Deck is far from ruined, thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses. You have near limitless amounts of energy at your disposal, as is normal with single-unit decks. So you can lay down an Armageddon of spells. Unholy Hero + Gates of Hell still deals ungodly damage and Purgatory provides consistent AoE DPS and clear. Enlightened Bata can still solo camps.

Against hard enemies like Lost Souls and sometimes Fire a single Batariel really has no chance anymore when there are Lost Dragons Archfiends Spellbreakers and most importantly Banestones you need to deal damage fast. Sure on easy maps like bandits single Batariel decks can still be used successfully but against harder enemies he has almost no chance anymore.

I havent played single Batariel decks for a while so maybe im a bit rusty but i dont think that is the case.

Edited by Fundus
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55 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

Deck is far from ruined

Nope, the deck is dead.

55 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses

You mean the slightly buffed single-target dmg that does not even help to trigger the aura any faster? Sorry, but you do not seem to understand how this deck worked. Batariel decks are no big dmg spell carrier. The main dmg must usually come from Batariel himself, this deck has only very limited options for spell-dmg usually and if your single unit takes to long in a harder camp, in a double camp or encountering early harder bosses you are just plain dead. Ofc you have plenty of energy, but beside Soulshatter and Thunderstorm there are not much options for dmg-spells on the one hand, and on the other if you just want to have a carrier for your spells you take units that have a) less cost and b) better orb restrictions (2 Green for Enlighten, 2 Shadow for needed CC and one Red for Disenchant) then an enlightened Batariel.
I played only a few matches since patch, but even a common twilight-3-willzapper rpve9 stopped me completely, I was hard-carried by a STONEKIN player! I lost 3 Batas and switched Orbs 5 times, a real fun.
The last months 2player 10 I was not able to take out the early Infester camp in 4 tries... I had to give up.
Even better players - and I mean I think I was able to push quite a decent Bata - like Damo dropped the deck entirely because it became almost unplayable for random maps. Sure you can hope for some easy bandits or that a Stonekin player carries you, but that is what I described above, the usual everyday Batariel (that was never strong, never fast and dies very often) deck that has nothing in common with what Dutchy cut quite perfect in his Bata-guide.
Literally everybody that I know dropped this deck, to say it works still is just plain unrealistic. May we ask instead you for a replay to prove your statements?

I do not often agree with Fundus, since he presents his opinion of very exaggerated, but here do not only I agree, but everybody that I have spoken with since the patch. And you may imagine I know quite some decent rpve players.
I would not even agree with his statement that you should not nerf any cards at all but only buff unused cards - hell and you guys did that and you did a great job there. But don't get me wrong, Fundus, your legit opinion ofc.

But the goal to get the Bata deck a tier down was failed sadly, it moved into lower tier fun-decks and is less viable as some of those



Edited by Volin
Medo Fathy, Dutchy and Donaar like this
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I actually haven't rolled LS for a two or three days now, so no replay for that still. Alas, here is what I have now. All are 4P rPvE9.

Bata rPvE9 fire.pmv
So I guess what happened here is that the guy who was about to clear together with me got Nether Warped into the camp with my Batariel and decided "Okay, fuck this.", which is fair enough, so I cleared four camps entirely solo. Last camp was also pretty much alone, everything died before the other player got to it. Had help with the boss but you can still see the high burst damage from Batariel coming through. Absolutely no issues here despite some sloppy spell usage.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin.pmv
I always try to rush ahead so I can clear camps solo, basically embracing the Batariel-mindset. Occasionally I help out with cross map spells, for example at around 7 minutes where the other player was struggling with a camp. No issues, but it's Stonekin, which has just a couple of annoyances in Windhunters.

Bata rPvE9 fire 1death.pmv
Died once because I didn't prebuff, didn't pay attention and then panic-cast my spells when it was already too late. No matter, I swapped orbs once more and it was smooth from there. I absolutely HARD carried this entire map. Before the first death I helped the other side out to get their T4 because I basically already had my entire army up and running. There were several wipes and heavy losses from other players while I waltzed through camps and helped to clean up. It seems greatly exaggerated to call a deck "meme" or "dead" when it can put a fire map on its back. There is a desync and heavy lag at the end but I cleared one remaining camp pretty much alone and then helped with spells on the last. Could've been easily deathless if I didn't completely botch that one engage.

Bata rPvE9 twilight.pmv
Not too eventful, bumbled around a bit. Also seemed like a relatively slim Twilight map.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin 2.pmv
Tried to split off as often as I could to solo camps. Still just Stonekin, yet as a damage demonstration, you still deal enough to wipe entire armies, which I did two times. Once for a 2nd row and once for a 3rd row camp.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin 3.pmv
Rolled yet another Stonekin, hooray. Guess this shows little but at least it establishes a baseline that you aren't just helpless with Bata now.


Overall, I found playing Bata actually more enjoyable than before the patch. You engage with camps for once, not just port in and wait a moment for everything to die. I'll continue to play a few more, hopefully rolling some LS and more Twilight. However, at least I got two fire, which is generally considered to be a hard preset as well and (aside from one easily avoidable blunder) I had no issues, carried the game even. I cannot echo the huge troubles with survivability on rPvE9 till now. Boss damage felt good, except on airborne bosses, which I guess would need Fallen Skyelf.

It just plays differently now. Spell timing and usage has to adapt as well as the tactic used to engage camps because now you actually have to bother with some things that used to evaporate instantly. I'd let things settle for a bit first and see what adaptations can be made. Get some distance to the pre-patch Bata deck and see what playstyle or deck changes work post-patch. rPvE10 is another matter entirely, of course. But the discussion started out as being about rPvE9.

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Ok so i only watched the Fire replays.

First replay: 3 Wheels and Inc MO as support which makes Fire much easier and you almost died 2 times. You didnt fight a single boss base alone.

Second replay: You only cleared 2 easy bases alone without help and thats it.

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Juvenescence is a non-factor. Strength gets overwritten by Unholy Hero. Resilience does help, so does Mo. Dipping low on Bata is just a matter of heal timing. I played a bit more on the edge, mostly because I have to get accustomed, but it can be done much safer.

Generally, 4P rPvE9 has other players doing something, yes. The measurement for viability isn't if I can tell the other 3 players to go afk and still win. Clearly there are instances where the Bata-deck is doing the heavy lifting in these engagements. The second fire map was 100% lost without it. I'm not saying it's the only deck that could've carried that map. But I'm saying it totally did.

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One important thing for us to consider when discussing Batariel's strength is that despite all the changes there are still only a few decks which can reliably clear RPvE 10, at least outside of a subset of highly skilled players. Potentially losing Batariel(r) from this group is an issue because it reduces deck diversity and pushes players to default to well-established Bandit decks.

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8 hours ago, Cocofang said:

Juvenescence is a non-factor. Strength gets overwritten by Unholy Hero. Resilience does help, so does Mo. Dipping low on Bata is just a matter of heal timing. I played a bit more on the edge, mostly because I have to get accustomed, but it can be done much safer.

Generally, 4P rPvE9 has other players doing something, yes. The measurement for viability isn't if I can tell the other 3 players to go afk and still win. Clearly there are instances where the Bata-deck is doing the heavy lifting in these engagements. The second fire map was 100% lost without it. I'm not saying it's the only deck that could've carried that map. But I'm saying it totally did.

All you have proven with those replays is that red Batariel can still be used successfully in easy situations. If you ever have to fight a big Lost Souls double base with tons of Lost Dragons Archfiends Spellbreakers and Banestones alone you will almost certainly lose.

Edited by Fundus
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11 minutes ago, Fundus said:

All you have proven with those replays is that red Batariel can still be used successfully in easy situations.

So... the deck isn't dead, but now has a narrower usecase?

I wonder, how good is it's performance in this usecase compared to other decks? If it outclasses other compeating decks in this usecase you can't make an argument that de deck is dead.

However, if it's performance in this usecase is now also lacking behind many other decks, you have a valid argument for it's demise. 

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Just wrote a detailed reply half as long as the bible to accidentally delete it 😞  In short then:

It's not really part of the point, but please reflect on your early and mid game, it's nonsensical in parts and often borders on gross rudeness. The Twilight deck is the bad highlight here, where your mate does all the midtier part for the "early" Bata, that then stands around for almost 4mins, to walk then over to your mates in the easy camp. The Bata before the SoW is not only dangerous for you when the T4 gets harder, but also a bit rude to the other players (you play a single-unit deck and use the least energy anyway) and the T4 wells slow you down immensely. But that's just a side note.

First of all, none of the maps are on the high end of the difficulty scale, but you'll be aware of that. Especially the fire-with-death and the twilight map are very easy. The only halfway clean performance of the deck is on the other fire replay, where unfortunately your mates catch up just as it gets exciting.

On the fire-with-death map, you don't carry anything, the map is teamplay from front to back. Ypu were the BY FAR most experienced player on this map, all your mates where quite rookie or on new/experimental decks. All camps in the last two rows are pure teamwork there.

In the Twilight replay the Single Grimvine with Firebomb outperforms the Batariel. *sad Volin noises* But may be player depended here.

The situation Fundus and I are talking about: Tough map and being on your own for some camps doesn't even apply over these 3 replays (I haven't looked at the Stonekin replays, any better player can manage most Stonekin maps with a few randomly thrown together).


Then I want to share some of my insights and learnings but first a word on my definition on my used term "the deck is dead".

When saying that I mean not it is not suitable for anything at all. But if a deck works nowhere, sorry, it is not a deck at all. Then it is either a sketch of a deck or some randomly thrown together cards.

After our discussion here heated up I asked for some feedback in my static group to reflect myself. Foremost Hiroo and Radical defended the deck at once and pointed out that there's still room for some nice times on some maps. We even started a session on the 4player 9 what is a most easy stonekin map, to be fair I can say Batariels can be still VERY fast on such maps. Not the fastest around as back before the nerf, but a sub 10 min is something that only very few decks can achieve. This is given due to the fact that this decks binds not much energy and can start of very early and at the same time this deck as no scaling with energy which lets it start at full power level what is nice for such fast runs. Here the nerf hit perfectly its goal to lower the powerlevel just a tiny bit below the best possible decks.

On the other hand I see my experience on those 2 mentioned Twilight maps and here is where we see the problems.

Even though the dmg is high enough to clear easier camps quite fast, even a tough Twilight 9 brought me into deep troubles. When you have 3 Willzapper, spread out in a way that you have (with the spawner) 4 priority targets that you can only kill one by one, the time-window that disenchant gives you is not enough for a safe kill. If negators come into this situation - as I have faced it - there is not room for just a tiny little missplay, and even executed perfectly I think you may have troubles with this situation. Now imagine even an Infester or Urzach in addition. Not an everyday scenario but totally realistic and a thing that happens from time to time. Given the goal was to nerf Bata in a way that it should remain in the upper tiers, it felt terrible that an ofc way slower (but more steady) Stonekin Deck had to carry me on this map a little. Still my spells gave some value to the team ofc but alone I would have been quite desperate there. You may argue that this is a multiplayer modus and teamplay is mandatory ofc - but from my understanding teamplay is sometimes, if given to the situation, that you split up where it is needed and you are able to do a camp or two on your own.

Even worse was my experience on the mentioned Twilight 10, easier scale of camps - not even one of those 5 Evil Eye situations, with a harder boss (Infester). Here I was not able to take out the camp in 4 tries, maybe given to my skill-level, but most scary to me. The time window that is here not only influenced by Disenchant but also to your CC was not long enough to proc enough crawlers to be able to take out the two willzappers and the spawner before the boss just crushed me.

This situations make me fear of exactly what Fundus describes, the combination of a few threads can these days lead to a quick wipe. This is why I hardly doubt that the deck is still viable for random maps where you don't know what you encounter, this is even more the fact for 10s.
Even Cocos replay show a few situations where I would be curious how they would have ended if there would not have been support spells and tons of meat-shields around him, though the maps where not that tough at all.

Finally I don't want to exclude that I may be just wrong with my fears because I'm used to such a high power-level of this deck, that it is very hard for me to get used to the current state. I think I'm quite good in analyzing rpve situations, but perhaps I'm just to biased. I will play my dailies with this deck the next week (did more fun stuff to me the last days and tested other new balancing (great stuff again with the last patch)).


EDIT-PS: Btw the boss-dmg seems to be way lower then before, not as you Coco, say it would be so insane. When fighting the Bandit-Battleship on the Stonekin 9 motm it just felt painly slow. And this is not even a case where you can use a Skyelf properly. Just as a side note.


Edited by Volin
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It depends on how you define dead sure you can still win easy rPvE 9 maps without a problem but in its current state red Batariel is outperformed by almost all popular cards/decks.For example Fire Dragon Wasteland Terror Bloodhorn Giant Wyrm purple Banzai Lord and many others.

Just because you can win easy lvl 9 maps doesnt mean red Batariel hasnt been nerfed to death. You can win most lvl 9 maps with Kobold Engineers.





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Just as a quick response: "Outperform" is a wide term here. There are several powerlevels of decks, mainly speed and security, we should not mix that wildly but differ here.

Let's take the stonekin example here: Is Batariel usually way faster as Stonekin, yes for sure. So Bata "outperforms" that in this case. Same for the mentioned Giant Wyrms for example.

Safety is just another measure, the one that I mainly aimed here when starting this off. Here for example some unit based decks are clearly outperforming Batariel.

We should calm down this discussion and differ here as the situation is complicated, think this is important for proper balancing decisions. But please don't get me wrong, Fundus, we share the same fears and position in general ofc.

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Yeah you are right how well a card performs really depends on the playstyle and the skill level of the player. Even before the nerf alot of casual players failed with Batariel on harder maps either because they misplaced a spell or simply because they attacked too early and ran out of energy. For the average casual player red Batariel was never OP because all it took was one mistake and Batariel died. 

I simply judge cards by how well they perform in tough situations in rPvE 9 and for me Giant Wyrms+Unity+Bloodthirst is a much better choice now.

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There's not much point in using a Hero Batariel decks anymore for Speed clearing. You're better
off doing Hero unit spell spam.

I would argue it's worse. There's no point in bringing Enlightenment Batariel Reds in any other faction anymore.
I don't bring Batariel Red because it hits Single targets harder like a knock off Abomination.
I bring Batariel Red because it procs splash damage faster.

Well the Batariel Reds are having a much much harder time ramping up their AOE damage so why ever bring them?
Both Batariels are slow at procing the AOE damage now so might as well use Batariel Purp for it's special ability
in every situation besides a Hero Batariel deck.

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Here is another voice stating Bata nerf was too much and agreeing with the comments by certain Skylords in this thread already on the current viability of these particular decks (and yes, there were multiple ways to play the former Bata, regular one with orb change to two shadow orbs, green peace or even a plague one, etc, very rarely it included a Nature start though...). 

Thanks to Windhunter above acknowledging the level 10 thing, because Bata to me is only really viable upto level 6 nowadays (after some unofficial personal biased testing yesterday), after that other deck types take over. So, on the most difficult maps (read a lot of LS, some Twilight, etc) other choices are now (much) better.

On the replays shared above, to me Bata was cleary outperformed in the ones I checked, no question about it. Most evident one was the Grimvine + Fire Sphere combo, kinda funny to see really, Bata just dancing about as he has always done and BOOM, all of a sudden camp was cleared...and not by Bata.

Some personal notes, I have a full deck library, 10% of this library are Bata decks, the rest are other non-Bata decks I played a lot too. So, Bata was only one part of the game before but gone nowadays and I am really sad one of the most fun ways to play this game is obsolete. I will keep the decks hoping he will some day reemerge to the burning Devil he once was...

Edited by Ponni
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Well, I put myself out there and scrapped together some replays to scrutinize.

I still think that a fire map where 3/4 players have multiple wipes and some ended up spawning T3 units to at least have some meat on the field is a hard carry. Sure, the other players were evidently inexperienced but that does not detract from the point, it underlines it. Blue wiped more than once, Green only had a few surviving Giant Wyrms because they decided to not fight anymore and rather join up and Teal also only made it because they tagged along with Bata. Teal would've even wiped in the last base without the spell support I provided, but it obviously doesn't show who cast the spells.

Anyone else got a couple replays to check out that demonstrate that the Enlightened Bata deck does or doesn't work?

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1 hour ago, Cocofang said:

Anyone else got a couple replays to check out that demonstrate that the Enlightened Bata deck does or doesn't work?

There is no need to do that, just take a look at what Volin (a truly experienced player who has a history of being objective and sound) wrote above which sums everything up quite well. For really difficult modes and speed Bata is dead as of now, end of story.

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2 hours ago, Cocofang said:

Anyone else got a couple replays to check out that demonstrate that the Enlightened Bata deck does or doesn't work?

Get only easy going maps and the one harder map that I got I played with a total rookie, no wonder I ran out of heals in the last row, in addition the replay broke. 

You know murphys law, when I picked a bandit deck a few days ago I got a super hard LS 🙂

If I don't get a nice example the next days I have a motm in mind to show what I (and Fundus, and Dutchy, and Blash, and Donaar, and Myno and Ponni, and a few others - you may recognize some names) mean.

At your replay, as I said you where the strongest player, no doubt. Your mates would have not won without you. You had in all stronger camps a huge meatshield running with you and watch how fast your Bata still dropped sometimes. Not only you supported (strongly) your group they did the same (partly unintended) for you. You would probably not been able to clear almost the complete last row without them, at least that is what I see there.

Please don't get me wrong, that was hell of a good match from you and by far the best out of the three!

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I'm not looking for personal gratification about how I, as a player, carried that match. I mean, I even died once early because I botched an early engage. This was never about my performance but Batas. The match was just meant to demonstrate that the Bata deck is strong enough to pull some weight.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I want to bring this to topic.

Since the deck just plays terribly tough, I had admittedly put it off a bit. The current 10-player Twilight (2player) seemed very suitable for a showcase, because I could easily build up in peace and due to the lack of spawners of the T4 row afterwards enjoy a nice crisp post-T4 largely undisturbed.
The replay starts at 9min, because I chatted in between.

Already the first camp is just a pain, how slow can such a mini camp die, for which one has made such an effort. With any normal deck and this energy pool would melt the camp better.

Then in the first camp the first wipe, this is simply badly played and completely independent of the nerf. But it shows wonderfully how vulnerable this deck has always been to the slightest misclick. I played the Disenchat a few seconds too early, because I wanted to make sure Gates of Hell (GoH in the further) would hit properly, buffed it and was about 5-10 energy short for GoH - it didn't go through. Since I had to play the CC I stand without energy and kills there -> painful death.
This is also totally on my head, but shows wonderfully why this deck was not unbalanced before in my humble opinion.

Orb switch, Bata, Orb switch (shows again why this deck was not out of balance) aaand again, as I could Earthshake the Zapper and the spawner in the last second of my first Bata this is an easy camp now, or?

12:15min - the Frenetic nerf (like it) hits, I have bad luck and don't get the left Eye, second Frenetic seems to miss too, need to Oink on top. GoH hits, finally some burning Bata and at 12:50min finally some sweet gameplay where my def-buffed Bata almost two-hits himself, quick heal and first camp done. Imagine a Zapper and spawner have still been up.

Urzach comes with the next camp, very nice if you have 2 Frenetic and both still on cooldown, quick Oink to buy some time. First Frenetic hits, Bata burns, but sadly the spawner dies so slowly from the burn that I need to Earthshake it when the first respawns occur. At 13:45min I have a shit ton of luck that I need no cc for the Eye because dmg is lacking. How many Regrowths until now? Lost track of the count.
Watch how the buildings at ~ 14 min die. Yeah, not at all from the burn, Bata needs to smash one by one. Was almost about to quit here so much fun is this.

15min, Bata runs fully buffed into a Negator while tons of enemy CC don't want to see me fighting. Bata life, but shows how things are if you are not totaly on point. Wait didn't I just killed the left spawner (intentionally because of the Eye there and the Frenetic nerf), why does my Bata doesn't burn? I see nothing I did wrong here. I was buffed, Infect was ready and a Burning Bata would have given me crawlers and should have burned the second spawner. Again I see things you have always seen, why I said: It was never totally out of balance. And hell now I'm in deep troubles here, tho I played this quite decent here I'd say.

Frenetic on the right side hits, but buys me not enough time for another good move and a lot of area is blocked by the dragon, desperate dmg spell does not help. All 3 CC are on perma cooldown and you see wonderful how hard the Frenetic nerf alone impacts this deck in certain tougher situations.
15:30, still the same camp, new infect (old did almost(?) trigger nothing), new dmg spells and new CC once they are of cooldown. You can see I was not on Q-Attack-and-watch-how-bad-he-is, I fighted like a lion!

Camp finally down at 16:16 min, and see how many spells this took me and how painfully slow things died.
Btw we are getting close to first charge issues here. I'm now 3 camps deep into the map.

17:05min again wating for my CCs to cool down, again the Frenetic nerf hits this deck. Btw I'm not hitting the Negator at 17:20 min accidently, I know if I don't kill this I'm in deep trouble again. Frenetic hits all Eyes this time and the tough situation is cleared, imagine it failed again. Thunderstorm and Bata's autohits do WAY MORE dmg on this last wave as the burning, sad world.

18:40 min. Now comes the Infester camp and I'm already out of Live Weaving Charges and at almost no heals. Even with full arsenal I've seen soo many Bata dying to this guy.

Wanted to warp earlier but did not find a spot, then had to panic heal cause I was out of def-buffs. The burning Bata takes only 1/3 of the Willzapper and as I have to manually kill the spawner I focus this in the hope of some burning caused Infect crawlers to spawn behind me to block of the boss a bit, I really get 3 procs of Infect before it runs out... but not enough to solve this situation, this is where I decide to rage quit, this is too painfull and is really no joy.

Of course you could have even played better a few situations, but I fighted like a lion and most parts where not even close to bad gameplay. But even if a few of our top player may be able to come out a little better, is this what you wanted to achieve? You can see in every camp that the burn does so little dmg that it would almost be no difference if you cut it at all.

The more and more people I speak with the clearer it gets: Almost every decent player sais "It is sooo painful to play I cut it at all". Seen a few Batas in random matches the last weeks, mostly they where depended on the player walking with them as we have seen in Cocos replays.

I don't even say that it is the worlds ending that this deck is of the list, but I have to stand up against: "It is more enjoyable as prepatch" Literally nobody shares that feeling and I hear and see a lot support for my point of view.

Haven't played much random 10s in the last months, how's the win-rate there evolving? (excluding motms) I mean it was always a mode where the best teams could loose a match, what is fine. But as the early in some 10s always took a lot of time (thats why it is fun) I wonder how things are going there? I seen many games that were won in the last 1-2mins because of people rushing the post-T4 in only a few mins with Batas. But as there are Banzais, Bloodhorn and other spell decks this may be a minor problem. Just asking questions



Ponni, Metagross31 and Blashyrkh like this
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