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September Patch Feedback Thread

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Hello everyone,

It has been a week now since the patch has released, and while this is not exactly a long time, I wanted to open a discussion and encourage everyone to provide feedback on the changes we have made to the game. Below are some of the topics of which we are most interested in soliciting feedback, though feel free to offer any suggestions regarding the patch and the current direction of the game. 

What do you think of our first PvE nerfs? Do the various decks still feel usable? Have they changed much at all, etc.?

Do you like the changes to card and factions (PvE and PvP)? Why or why not? Where did we hit the mark, and implement something exciting you'd like to see more of? Where did you miss the mark and what should we avoid in the future? Do you enjoy the new cards, are they balanced, etc.?

What do you think of the map changes?

You can also join us at our balance discord to further discuss changes to cards: https://discord.gg/jrGEBG9NT5

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Okay, then I'll make a start. First let me say that I'm not having a particularly good day, don't put too much stock in my single opinion.

Haven't played much lately and seem a bit rusty in general.

I have only tested 2 things seriously the last 2 days this was:

The Batariel deck has simply slipped into the middle class in my opinion, sure you can still play it, but it's a run-of-the-mill deck like you mostly see in random groups anyway (wrong orbs; hardly any, no and/or wrong buffs and there's then a single Bata running around that actually only has enlightenment in common with the usual buffed Bata deck).
On stronger maps, the burn is too weak to clear necessary threats in time and it dies quickly these days when the camps are a bit harder.
Too bad, I'm curious whether the better players can still get something out of here, from the first feeling the deck unfortunately falls completely out of the meta. Possibly further a Speedrun alternative on very easy Bandit maps.

The second thing I looked at is the Twilight Deck, unfortunately I find here (at least from meta point of view) not much new. The dragon buff as well as the creeper buff are nice, but nothing more - the Abo Spelldeck remains the king in the ring. Nightshade in T3 is a possibility, but I suspect that this will remain more of a casual approach, but finally nice to have the alternative, although especially here Twilight T3 already had 2 strong units. But since XL are always very popular, the masses will be happy and probably grab here.

A more Unit based Twilight deck will be a bit stronger with the patch, but thanks to the Nox Cloud and the Creeper Buff, the Abo deck has increased to the same extent.

The transformation overhaul has no relevance to me so far in the pve, in fact I had to look up what else changed there in the patch notes. As before, the slot gain because of the "internal" Breeding Ground remains the main advantage for me here.
All in all, I think there is unfortunately more work in here than you can feel in the Twilight deck 😞 I hope Twilight is not yet finished here, although I can imagine that the PvP impact is significantly greater.

My conclusion: So far the patch that gives me the least pleasure. The Buffed Bata deck has slipped more than 1 tier imo and after the Bandit rework I had hoped for a little bit more with Twilight, but I don't want to be unfair, I realize how much time and effort is put into this. The small changes to Spells, Units are very nice and please me very well, including the nerfs of Decomposer and Frenetic. (The revisions to the buildings also read very nice, only I never actually play them ^^)

I thank you very much for your work, hope it's not brazen to hope for something more in Twilight.

Ahhhh - wait - one thing I have almost forgotten. Pure Fire I've also been playing since the patch, and it feels really nice. The overdue boost in sustain from both the deck and NPC side (aka Dancer rework) feel good and make the deck a lot more rounded. Moloch normal speed when? 😛

mostly translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Edited by Volin
found some typos, if you find more please just keep them :D
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I just played rPvE 9 with my old single Bata(R) deck and im really shocked by how weak it has become vs Bandits i havent played vs other factions yet but im pretty sure i wont be able to win against them. Are there any good single Batariel decks left or has Batariel(R) been nerfed to death?

Batariel(P) is still good in my opinion.

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Ok so i played a few rPvE matches with my Batariel deck vs various enemy factions.

Purple Batariel is weaker but still pretty good and when combined with Fire Dragons he is almost OP but red Batariel has really been nerfed to death and now the classic single Batariel deck is almost unplayable.

I know Batariel(R)+Buff decks were very powerful but nobody was forced to use them and there are other very powerful combos too like Wasteland Terror+Corsair+Unity+Bloodthirst which completely destroy every enemy faction at least in rPvE9 not even Lost Souls are a challenge.

I would really like to know why there was no topic in the Cards section of the forum to discuss Batariel before making any changes. There are topics for cards like Colosus and Necroblaster but not for Batariel who is a much more popular card.

Instead of ruining good and popular cards and in this case even entire decks better focus on making useless cards like Willzapper Waysatation Twilight Hag and many others useful.

Edited by Fundus
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Can you please provide replays that showcase Enlightened Bata was nerfed to death?

Deck is far from ruined, thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses. You have near limitless amounts of energy at your disposal, as is normal with single-unit decks. So you can lay down an Armageddon of spells. Unholy Hero + Gates of Hell still deals ungodly damage and Purgatory provides consistent AoE DPS and clear. Enlightened Bata can still solo camps.

Also, complaining about "ruined good and popular cards" when unused, bad cards still exist is so not fair, given the fact that the entire patch history since release up to this very patch was almost exclusively massive buffs after buffs after buffs to everything across the board. Never have more decks and cards been strong and viable in the history of the game. And extra care has been taken to make this the case before even rolling out the first nerfs so nobody is left with nothing. Even if Enlightened Bata wasn't alive and well there has never been such a wealth of options to choose from.

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Deck is far from ruined, thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses. You have near limitless amounts of energy at your disposal, as is normal with single-unit decks. So you can lay down an Armageddon of spells. Unholy Hero + Gates of Hell still deals ungodly damage and Purgatory provides consistent AoE DPS and clear. Enlightened Bata can still solo camps.

Against hard enemies like Lost Souls and sometimes Fire a single Batariel really has no chance anymore when there are Lost Dragons Archfiends Spellbreakers and most importantly Banestones you need to deal damage fast. Sure on easy maps like bandits single Batariel decks can still be used successfully but against harder enemies he has almost no chance anymore.

I havent played single Batariel decks for a while so maybe im a bit rusty but i dont think that is the case.

Edited by Fundus
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55 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

Deck is far from ruined

Nope, the deck is dead.

55 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

thanks to the compensatory buffs Bata tears chunks out of XL units and bosses

You mean the slightly buffed single-target dmg that does not even help to trigger the aura any faster? Sorry, but you do not seem to understand how this deck worked. Batariel decks are no big dmg spell carrier. The main dmg must usually come from Batariel himself, this deck has only very limited options for spell-dmg usually and if your single unit takes to long in a harder camp, in a double camp or encountering early harder bosses you are just plain dead. Ofc you have plenty of energy, but beside Soulshatter and Thunderstorm there are not much options for dmg-spells on the one hand, and on the other if you just want to have a carrier for your spells you take units that have a) less cost and b) better orb restrictions (2 Green for Enlighten, 2 Shadow for needed CC and one Red for Disenchant) then an enlightened Batariel.
I played only a few matches since patch, but even a common twilight-3-willzapper rpve9 stopped me completely, I was hard-carried by a STONEKIN player! I lost 3 Batas and switched Orbs 5 times, a real fun.
The last months 2player 10 I was not able to take out the early Infester camp in 4 tries... I had to give up.
Even better players - and I mean I think I was able to push quite a decent Bata - like Damo dropped the deck entirely because it became almost unplayable for random maps. Sure you can hope for some easy bandits or that a Stonekin player carries you, but that is what I described above, the usual everyday Batariel (that was never strong, never fast and dies very often) deck that has nothing in common with what Dutchy cut quite perfect in his Bata-guide.
Literally everybody that I know dropped this deck, to say it works still is just plain unrealistic. May we ask instead you for a replay to prove your statements?

I do not often agree with Fundus, since he presents his opinion of very exaggerated, but here do not only I agree, but everybody that I have spoken with since the patch. And you may imagine I know quite some decent rpve players.
I would not even agree with his statement that you should not nerf any cards at all but only buff unused cards - hell and you guys did that and you did a great job there. But don't get me wrong, Fundus, your legit opinion ofc.

But the goal to get the Bata deck a tier down was failed sadly, it moved into lower tier fun-decks and is less viable as some of those



Edited by Volin
Dutchy, Medo Fathy and Donaar like this
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I actually haven't rolled LS for a two or three days now, so no replay for that still. Alas, here is what I have now. All are 4P rPvE9.

Bata rPvE9 fire.pmv
So I guess what happened here is that the guy who was about to clear together with me got Nether Warped into the camp with my Batariel and decided "Okay, fuck this.", which is fair enough, so I cleared four camps entirely solo. Last camp was also pretty much alone, everything died before the other player got to it. Had help with the boss but you can still see the high burst damage from Batariel coming through. Absolutely no issues here despite some sloppy spell usage.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin.pmv
I always try to rush ahead so I can clear camps solo, basically embracing the Batariel-mindset. Occasionally I help out with cross map spells, for example at around 7 minutes where the other player was struggling with a camp. No issues, but it's Stonekin, which has just a couple of annoyances in Windhunters.

Bata rPvE9 fire 1death.pmv
Died once because I didn't prebuff, didn't pay attention and then panic-cast my spells when it was already too late. No matter, I swapped orbs once more and it was smooth from there. I absolutely HARD carried this entire map. Before the first death I helped the other side out to get their T4 because I basically already had my entire army up and running. There were several wipes and heavy losses from other players while I waltzed through camps and helped to clean up. It seems greatly exaggerated to call a deck "meme" or "dead" when it can put a fire map on its back. There is a desync and heavy lag at the end but I cleared one remaining camp pretty much alone and then helped with spells on the last. Could've been easily deathless if I didn't completely botch that one engage.

Bata rPvE9 twilight.pmv
Not too eventful, bumbled around a bit. Also seemed like a relatively slim Twilight map.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin 2.pmv
Tried to split off as often as I could to solo camps. Still just Stonekin, yet as a damage demonstration, you still deal enough to wipe entire armies, which I did two times. Once for a 2nd row and once for a 3rd row camp.

Bata rPvE9 stonekin 3.pmv
Rolled yet another Stonekin, hooray. Guess this shows little but at least it establishes a baseline that you aren't just helpless with Bata now.


Overall, I found playing Bata actually more enjoyable than before the patch. You engage with camps for once, not just port in and wait a moment for everything to die. I'll continue to play a few more, hopefully rolling some LS and more Twilight. However, at least I got two fire, which is generally considered to be a hard preset as well and (aside from one easily avoidable blunder) I had no issues, carried the game even. I cannot echo the huge troubles with survivability on rPvE9 till now. Boss damage felt good, except on airborne bosses, which I guess would need Fallen Skyelf.

It just plays differently now. Spell timing and usage has to adapt as well as the tactic used to engage camps because now you actually have to bother with some things that used to evaporate instantly. I'd let things settle for a bit first and see what adaptations can be made. Get some distance to the pre-patch Bata deck and see what playstyle or deck changes work post-patch. rPvE10 is another matter entirely, of course. But the discussion started out as being about rPvE9.

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Ok so i only watched the Fire replays.

First replay: 3 Wheels and Inc MO as support which makes Fire much easier and you almost died 2 times. You didnt fight a single boss base alone.

Second replay: You only cleared 2 easy bases alone without help and thats it.

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Juvenescence is a non-factor. Strength gets overwritten by Unholy Hero. Resilience does help, so does Mo. Dipping low on Bata is just a matter of heal timing. I played a bit more on the edge, mostly because I have to get accustomed, but it can be done much safer.

Generally, 4P rPvE9 has other players doing something, yes. The measurement for viability isn't if I can tell the other 3 players to go afk and still win. Clearly there are instances where the Bata-deck is doing the heavy lifting in these engagements. The second fire map was 100% lost without it. I'm not saying it's the only deck that could've carried that map. But I'm saying it totally did.

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One important thing for us to consider when discussing Batariel's strength is that despite all the changes there are still only a few decks which can reliably clear RPvE 10, at least outside of a subset of highly skilled players. Potentially losing Batariel(r) from this group is an issue because it reduces deck diversity and pushes players to default to well-established Bandit decks.

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