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Dexirian

Shadow Mage spam + Green Nether Warp counterplay?

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I genuinely don't understand what are the options against that combo, most CC's last 10 seconds re-usable every 20, while nether warp lasts 20 re-usable every 20. There's apparently also an exploit where you get more base regen than meant if warping in same spot. I'm considering making the use of said exploit a bannable offence it's a complete anti-fun mecanic that ruins PvP matches.

 

Opinions?

Suggestions?

 

Thanks

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Well, I don't think it is too strong. You just need to know what to do against it.

Some suggestions:

Shadow/Frost: Nasty Lyrish

Any Nature Splash: Root/Oink

Any Frost Splash: Freeze

Any Fire Splash: Possibly Eruption/Lavafield

Normally, this strategy played is at least 3 shadow mages + nether warp, which is an insane amount of energy, so you actually can counter it quite well.

DuellLord likes this

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Posted (edited)

I'm no expert on pure nature, but from a few dekka replays back then i remember even the best pure nature player suffered alot when encountering this tactic. Really easy to excecute and at the same time really hard to defend in this matchup as it seems. Even if it wouldn't be strong at all i would like to see this bug (wich it is) fixed.

Edit: another magewarp thread

 

Edited by SunWu II.

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6 hours ago, Showaren2 said:

I don't play nature at all, but can you not just oink the mages, and then focus them out 1 by 1?

After the first 5 oink seconds you probably only got one mage down. Second mage already gets woken up immediately once focused and is able to deal damage, maybe even motivated. In the other thread Radical mentioned spikeroot wich seems much better than ghostspears and deep one.

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6 hours ago, SunWu II. said:

After the first 5 oink seconds you probably only got one mage down. Second mage already gets woken up immediately once focused and is able to deal damage, maybe even motivated. In the other thread Radical mentioned spikeroot wich seems much better than ghostspears and deep one.

Yeah I agree, Pure nature definitely has a tough time with it.

But well, considering that it is a bug it should be fixed in the future anyways.

Navarr likes this

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Only deck which has really problems with this combo is pure nature. But pure nature has a lot of problems against really simple other things too...Only think about how to counter burrower spam with pure nature^^ Pure nature is just a very imbalanced deck with some really hards strengths but also really hard weaknesses.

I think it never get "fixed" because it wasnt really judged as a bug (although some players had a different opinion)...i think its just the way this card works. 

 

But all in all i dont really see the problem of this combo...pure shadow is not overly strong and i think before changes are considered to this card, there are a lot of bigger problems in balancing. If this card would be weaker, this combo wont be a real option against most other decks. Even now against most fractions this combo isnt really strong.

For nature i think phase tower is the bigger problem, because every shadow splash plays it (ca 50 % of players) and if played correctly the nature player has nothigh to laugh in t1...

 

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weak the card no,they need to make it work correct ,you should not have start and end point the same spot of that spell,it should have a minumum distance.

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This has been mentioned a couple times already I dont know if it can be called a bug since there is no other card to compare the nether warp to in oder to judge if the way it works (double the healing since it refreshes twice each second) is inconsistent or "wrong". We have multiple instences of cards (jugger double stampede, nightguard nasty interaction, or even the way damage reductions or damage amplifications do interact in general)

The question should be if the effect of the card is overpowered in general.

and as other people descibed already it actually only works versus pure nature and even pure nature does have options (oink + creeping p. stacked) can be used to counter the mage port.

Any fire splash can just use lavafield after the first volly from the shadow mages and they all die instantly

most shadow splases can use some combination of nasty (for example 3 mages+ port is already 220 power... )

most of the time the pure shadow player has already a huge advantage prior to the mage port...

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16 hours ago, Anonymos said:

double the healing

Doesn't it heal way more than twice the amount of the carddescription though? I thougt that's why it's considered a bug and not just some unintended use. I can't test at the moment cause i don't have the green netherwarp yet.

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Posted (edited)

it exactly doubles the healing since the effect would normally heal every 2 seconds but when used the "buged way" it gets refresed once every second so it does heal twice as fast

Edited by Anonymos

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Does anyone has an idea WHY the healing is increased when casting the warp close together?

Quote

Creates a warp zone that teleports any unit within it to the target destination which has to be within 60m range of the zone. Any unit sent through the warp zone will restore 40 life points every 2 seconds. Lasts for 10 seconds. Reusable every 20 seconds.

The description of the card suggests that the healing is applied on actually getting teleported. But the actual mechanics behind this could be different. Is the healing applied by simply standing near the entrance and exit zones? Is the healing applied by both entrance and exit zones to all unites that have been teleported? Is the buff getting refreshed every second while near the entrance point, even if the unit has already been teleported?

At the very least it is safe to say that the card does not behave the way the description suggests.

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To give you an answer to some of your questions and some general information: 

-> The buff gets applied to all units near the entrance zone, the exit zone does not affect units at all

-> There are 2 effects applied by nether warp: Port immunity & the specific healing or slow effect dependend on affinity

-> There is an instant healing tic once the buff gets applied which is the main reason for this interaction

-> The buff refreshes every second always applying this instant tic which doubles the healing speed

-> The max healing per target gets increased from 200 to 960.

Intended healing: Instant starting tick + 4 ticks per 2 seconds (+200 hp over 8 seconds)

Maximum healing: 20 starting ticks (1 per second) + 4 ticks per 2s (+960 hp over 28 seconds) 

The speed is twice as fast, but due to the constant refreshes the duration also gets extended by 20 seconds making the healing even more valuable. 

-> Cards like Incredible Mo or Green dryad suppress the port immunity, but healing is not affected by this 

-> Card descriptions are bad in general. There are so many missing information like damage caps for Shadow spells (even Nether Warp has an unmentioned healing cap). I could probably name more than 100 "Features" in this game that do have an effect onto the overall gameplay.

About the balancing question: In in the current high elo environment a change is not necessary. Lyrish Nasty, Amii Phantom spam, War Eagle scream, Lavafield, Razorshard/Stonetempest are sufficient answers to this specific combo. Pure Nature ends up getting destroyed, but that is more due to the awful T1 conditions. You always lose on tempo unless the enemy makes a mistake early on and Magespam is just really good at snowballing leads. 

The stategy is easy to use, very oppressive and unfun to play against though, so from a mid to low elo standpoint a change could be reasonable. 

 

 

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Spikeroot really is essential for pure nature to survive against this (and many other M unit threats).  Oink the mages and then deal massive damage to them with spikeroot.  Parasite (the spell) also helps since it has high single target DPS and can jump to up to 6 mages (it's not a bad inclusion for pure nature in general since it's also really helpful against drake  + ravage).  Pretty much every other deck has some kind of answer to mage spam + netherwarp; Radical listed most of them, but AoC and Phoenixes + CC work as well.

Hirooo likes this

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