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Loptous

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Wintertide is somewhat viable for rPVE lvl 10's (2 and 4 Player) for the case you are facing Lost Souls. Not for speedruns obviously as you never want to start frost against Souls anyways, but if you are building a 'general' deck for rPVE lvl 10's you can use it as some kind of safety. Frost has almost no issues with anything else they face (except few stonekin maps), but Lost Souls is much harder for them than for any other faction, at least with its standard 4 card t1 ( FM, Master Archers, Ice Barrier, Home Soil). Thats due to cuz their best defensive tool, Frost Mage knockback, does not matter against Lost Souls as the t2 consists of M and L units mostly. While Nature has Heals and Root, Fire has raw damage and Shadow has insane tanking ability, Frost got next to no defensive Tools left( except Ice Barrier Spam) which isn't exactly what i call 'a well enough defense'. That way you are forced to literally spam units and pretty have to wait ages. Wintertide CAN help, however you need to get to in range to attack the spawn building which can be tricky before you use wintertide. If the spawn building is very far back you might also want to leave 3-4 master archers behind ya lines at first to sneak them right through the enemy lines when they are not focussed or you have to focus down some units first. So that might need some creativity and good situational adapting from the players side. Alternatively Glyph of Frost is a good card to add as 5th card to the deck. It is a bit less rewarding however in most cases way more consistant. You need way less skill (just palce it somewhat near to a good spot and you will probably hit every ground unit besides air and the income. That way killing the spawn is way easier, but you will take more damage after units are out of the freeze-effect. Wintertide takes more skill to get the maximum effect out of the card, but if you do hell its way better than Glyph of Frost in any scenario. So if you feel comfortable enough but really struggle with Lost Souls at lvl 10 you might wanna choose Wintertide over Glyph of Frost, otherwise just take Glyph of Frost and get that safety with the easy route.

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On 26-1-2016 at 3:43 PM, Loptous said:

 

@LadadoosWell today, the card may look different because, when I accessed the google drive that contained all the cards, nothing was there so I am going off the Wiki for cards. Fix pls.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience, I had made a rather dumb mistake and the files got removed. Do not worry though, everything is back in place and should be working just as it did. 

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good for the PVP part, pretty much a worthless slot in rPVE though. Fire simply doesn't need him as mines Nomads/Sunderers and maybe Eruptions are way to powerful even at t3. They really only struggle against Crystal Fiends and Lost Vigils, where Enforcer won't really help. Otherwise great card without doubt

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14 hours ago, Loptous said:

Enforcer.jpg.8d287e19c080b762da8669c15ba

Sorry guys pretty late to day, a lot going on.

Anways let's talk about the most essential card in any pure fire deck.

I won't be able to talk much today because of real-life stuff, but tomorrow I should

Best T2 M/M in the game. Nightcrawler already has only barely better stats than Enforcer, but the damage of the charge gives this unit a big edge.

The only other M/M that can beat Enforcer is a frenzied Nightcrawler. However, just like other M/M units, this card is not of much use outside of pvp.

Without this card, pure Fire wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is.
 

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Bandit-Sorceress_fire.jpg.f9a839e878ed9dBandit-Sorceress_frost.jpg.ea1d7711c3f7c

So bandit Sorceress, a weird card especially with the ability of Installation which I find confusing at times.

But what I get from it, is that this card is not made to fight outside of buildings rather inside?

I mean nice attack buffs a good combo with Makeshift tower or Church of Negation. It's kind of hard to tell what affinity is better on this card, I guess it just comes down to personal preference whether you want more damage or less damage taken.

So weird card like I said, I just don't know how to feel about it yet, since I cannot test it out myself...

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well what can i say. the basic attacks are bugged and do far less damage than stated on the card. not that bandits would need her as an s counter anways...

 

the ability is not too bad, works ok in 2v2 closewell situations if your teammate builds his deck accordingly. especially nice with rioter's retreat if you can somehow fit it in the deck. just mostly too situational and not worth the slot. not sure how usefull it is in pve, but in defense scenarios i can see it working quite well.

 

overall a sub par card that does not fit the bandits playstyle outside of wierd 2v2 and pve tactics with rioter's. no idea what phenomic was thinking when making that card...

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19 minutes ago, LagOps said:

well what can i say. the basic attacks are bugged and do far less damage than stated on the card. not that bandits would need her as an s counter anways...


 

the ability is not too bad, works ok in 2v2 closewell situations if your teammate builds his deck accordingly. especially nice with rioter's retreat if you can somehow fit it in the deck. just mostly too situational and not worth the slot. not sure how usefull it is in pve, but in defense scenarios i can see it working quite well.


 

overall a sub par card that does not fit the bandits playstyle outside of wierd 2v2 and pve tactics with rioter's. no idea what phenomic was thinking when making that card...

You just took take the words out of my mouth and the bugged damage is just poor (for those who are interested, Bandit Sorceress actual damage is 366).

However, assuming Bandit Sorceress wouldn't be bugged but actually has her 550 ATK, her effective damage would be 720 ATK / 570 HP on a unit for 50 power on U3 (assuming the ATK is fixed and she gets the full splash damage). Lifesteal shouldn't be disregarded either and M size makes her less susceptible to knockback. Wouldn't that actually make her an actually decent card?

Personally, I see the problem more in Darkelf Assassins whose Unholy Trance gives them twice the DPS while keeping the same ATK over 20 seconds. I think a reasonable "adjustment" has long been overdue and would promote use of alternative anti-S creatures such as Bandit Sorceress or Lost Dancer (right now there is barely any "risk" involved with this shadow ability and reminds more of an aggressive Fire ability).

I also don't like the fact that Lost Soul can make a viable and small DA/Lost Reaver/NC T2 due to the strength of all of these cards and I see that step mitigating that to some degree.

And regarding her ability, couldn't it find use on Mortar Tower, perhaps?
 

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yeah maybe a da nerf is needed, but i guess that would mostly promote s/m counters as they are not affected by hurricane. might result in factions with strong m counters to be hard to deal with for shadow splashes, especially pure frost might be an issue. as a unit, da is certainly above the curve. however, i feel that it is needed, shadow splashes would lack air counters. there could be more severe drawbacks to da, but it would likely need a lot of testing. maybe a shorter active duration or a longer period in which they can't attack. taking away the dmg might not be a good idea since they are relied on for air defense (despite being s counters). maybe make them lose the s counter when stanced?

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55 minutes ago, LagOps said:

yeah maybe a da nerf is needed, but i guess that would mostly promote s/m counters as they are not affected by hurricane. might result in factions with strong m counters to be hard to deal with for shadow splashes, especially pure frost might be an issue. as a unit, da is certainly above the curve. however, i feel that it is needed, shadow splashes would lack air counters. there could be more severe drawbacks to da, but it would likely need a lot of testing. maybe a shorter active duration or a longer period in which they can't attack. taking away the dmg might not be a good idea since they are relied on for air defense (despite being s counters). maybe make them lose the s counter when stanced?


 

I knew it would probably make problems for Nature/Shadow, but I thought that could be fixed by tweaking the Amii Phantom. But now that you mention it, I really see that AA would be a problem for shadow splashes in general.

I think this is one of the fundamental issues where one card does too things at once, resulting in making the range of similar units useless (which we come to notice in this topic quite often), thus reducing diversity in general. I've dealt with such situations in my RTS mod (shameless self promotion) by keeping the greater picture in mind and making other units perform some of their former tasks. I could imagine creating the ability "Skyfire" which works similar to "Siege" and increases damage against air targets by 50%. I think appropriate cards with this rule could be Shadow Mage, Lost Priest and Amii Phantom.

This would further promote the completely useless card Lost Priest (which of course would need its damage get fixed) and Amii Phantom (okay, it's not useless but it's not great either). I could only see this making some problems with Shadow Mage, but since that card has no counter and has severe drawback, it should be alright?

I think the reconstruction on larger scale requires more time to get it right, but when you are there have a much richer gameplay. However, I have to admit that I don't have such great insight into BF as others and that might not work out as planned and minor changes could at least have "good" result.


 

But since I guess this is out of reach, I guess increasing the length of the trance where they do nothing to 15s (from 10s) could already fix this more or less. I'd have liked to simply see their damage set to 20 per shot but that could make them too bad against air targets (which also speaks against a shorter duration of their ability). Making them lose the s-counter sounds interesting, but doesn't feel very intuitive.

Would like to know what you think about both ideas.

 

Edit: While I think DA and shadow splashes in general is a topic worth discussing, I'd still like to know about a post-change Bandit Sorceress (with corrected damage ) vs DA (with a minor nerf in their ability). Would DA still be a superior choice, or would it become more a matter of personal taste?

 

Edited by Mental Omega
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personally i prefer to run solid counters in my bandits pvp deck to at least have the option of counterplay against as many things as possible. the main reason i would DEFINATELY go for darkelves is their burst.

if i am forced to defend with a bandits deck, my top priority is to push the enemy away from the well and force cc early on. it is especially nice to force hurricane since it does not work with root (vs. frenzy forsaken, but then da can attack again) and it does not work with oinc either (dmg breaks oinc). burst matters as it is paramount to get rid of threats as soon as possible, otherwise your well is going to drop. ofc burst is also nice if you are sieging with a banner. for the sorceress to be a legit choice, she would have to deal massive damage imo. m counters in t2 are brutally strong and typically allways on the field. the damage (even what is on the card) is too low for me to consider playing her.

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4 hours ago, Mental Omega said:

And regarding her ability, couldn't it find use on Mortar Tower, perhaps?

Why would you? Usually MT is too far away from the main battlefield for the red affinity to be useful. And the blue affinity isn't worth it as you're binding an additional 50 power to a building that costs 60.
It would probably be better to just build a second MT.

BTT:
Never played Bandits so I can't speak from experience, but on paper she looks pretty useless. Even in a Frost or Nature deck where you got a great range of useful buildings the buff isn't worth it. Most of the time a building is used for ranged support and something else will tank, so a defensive buff isn't that good to begin with. If the power refund for the Sorceress is sent back to void (and the Sorceress dies) it might be ok to play on some maps. rPvE is completely out of the question for this card I think and as the others already said it needs tweaking for PvP.

My suggestion would be for the affinity buffs to be exchanged. The red affinity should give an atk buff to a building (20% more dmg for example) and the blue affinity should buff the defense of units
(or buildings?) close to it. That might be the first option for a defensive card in a Bandit deck then. :P
I'm not really satisfied with my suggestion for the blue affinity but can't think of anything better for now. Maybe a bonus to Lifesteal would be better suited.

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4 hours ago, Kaliber84 said:

Why would you? Usually MT is too far away from the main battlefield for the red affinity to be useful. And the blue affinity isn't worth it as you're binding an additional 50 power to a building that costs 60.
It would probably be better to just build a second MT.

BTT:
Never played Bandits so I can't speak from experience, but on paper she looks pretty useless. Even in a Frost or Nature deck where you got a great range of useful buildings the buff isn't worth it. Most of the time a building is used for ranged support and something else will tank, so a defensive buff isn't that good to begin with. If the power refund for the Sorceress is sent back to void (and the Sorceress dies) it might be ok to play on some maps. rPvE is completely out of the question for this card I think and as the others already said it needs tweaking for PvP.

My suggestion would be for the affinity buffs to be exchanged. The red affinity should give an atk buff to a building (20% more dmg for example) and the blue affinity should buff the defense of units
(or buildings?) close to it. That might be the first option for a defensive card in a Bandit deck then. :P
I'm not really satisfied with my suggestion for the blue affinity but can't think of anything better for now. Maybe a bonus to Lifesteal would be better suited.

I won't really participate in those PVP discussions as i have way to less inside into that.

For rPVE there actually is a valid t2 strategy that is based around Rioter's Retreat, Commandos and Bandit Sorcerers. It is a pretty safe strategy as you are getting tons of damage reduction, making the life steal even more effective. It is quite power consuming and you might struggle with reaching the Spawn Building sometimes( if the placement is kinda unlucky), but you can pretty much tank up anything. It is especially good with Mines as support, as it is not the highest amount of damage you will be able to put out. For the Spawn building Issue you can add in Eruptions, which i would recommend in almost any Fire T1 rPVE deck anyways.

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1 hour ago, Treim said:

I won't really participate in those PVP discussions as i have way to less inside into that.

For rPVE there actually is a valid t2 strategy that is based around Rioter's Retreat, Commandos and Bandit Sorcerers. It is a pretty safe strategy as you are getting tons of damage reduction, making the life steal even more effective. It is quite power consuming and you might struggle with reaching the Spawn Building sometimes( if the placement is kinda unlucky), but you can pretty much tank up anything. It is especially good with Mines as support, as it is not the highest amount of damage you will be able to put out. For the Spawn building Issue you can add in Eruptions, which i would recommend in almost any Fire T1 rPVE deck anyways.

I was thinking the same thing about the Rioter's Retreat, Commandos, and Bandit Sorceress being some janky combo that could prove some usefulness  

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Deepcoil-Worm.jpg.843e8960f0192f24b0268b

I for one love this card! Every time I got one, I would not hesitate to keep it and not even think of selling one.

For one the art design is very cool and attractive. Being pretty much a great counter for flying units and having great mobility, this card is definitely one to pick up.

The Siege ability makes it great for those pesky walls and buildings, while the Drill Tunnel provides a tunnel effect if you have two deepcoils at the same time.

This card is just really good that's all can say

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You can do some really fun strategies with that card :D

Using Deepcoil Worm and Burrowing Ritual was always a nice thing to teleport Constructs all over the map.

It also has some speedrun history :). Back when second chance was broken, you'd get abozt 16 ashbone pyros and few of those little worms and just run everything down with 16-20 attack WoG stacked :D.

It is still viable in a similar deck, where you play around Ashbone Pyros only. I liked it as an additional card once i was out of charges for Ashbone Pyros ( very fun deck, but you need to have someone building SoW. Even better when you have a friend that play the same strategy and you just run down any base. Motivate becomes insanely good. This deck struggles heavily against Lost Souls though :P)

I think that you have better options in t3 generally than this card though. It is ok to use but if you have other viable units than I always preferrd those over Deepcoil Worm.

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