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Essential speedrunning card on rPVE lvl 10 maps against any Lost Vigils. The red one is preferable due to more damage against air units and ground units are taken care of mines.

I'll just be lazy and quote myself on this one :). Otherwise it will probably get to out of context as this only works if you have some kind of coordination. It's by far the most complex thing in rPVE T1 and applying to any situation is not as easy as it may look like. I underlined the parts where the most relevanant parts for Blaster Cannons are. I'd suggest to read the whole thing though.

I'll leave the original source here as well:

Please note that this is just a general rule of thumb and you have to apply it to every map indidividually. If you play decently with good coordination you will always be able to clear t2 bases in a fast and efficient way though.

For 2 Player maps:

On 17.7.2015 at 5:01 PM, Treim said:

T1 - Enemy Lost Souls

  • Shadow: Only viable for 1 player and only if the t2 doesn't include lost vigils. The other player will need to support the shadow player with massive fire spell spam. Use skeleton warriors only.
  • Frost: Not viable
  • Fire: If one player starts shadow support him massively with 2 mines and 4 eruptions on the spawn building at  least. That's 440 energy minimum. You can add a defensive mine to defend the spawn near t1 to that if you wish. Notice that this will slow down the fire player massively but will speed up the other player massively. If there are lost vigils though you are forced to play fire with both players. The concept stays the same though. One player will support the other one with spells. You want to support the other player with at least 2 mines and 2 eruptions on the spawn building. Blaster Cannons are a must have. You want to start off with 3-4 nomads (depending on how good you can pull and how fast you can erupt). Start of with 2-3 blaster cannons (when you build 2 you will most likely need to erupt 1-2 times unless you're a bit lucky with the focus). You want to set up 2-3 mines at the place the ground units will attack your blaster cannons. Placement of those can get tricky, depending on which enemies (trees, manabeasts, lost dancers, etc) you will face. After you set up yourself or your team-mate, pull out the whole base into your blaster cannons and let them switch focus, until you run into the base again and kill the spawn building. In optimal case you want to kill the spawn with the eruptions as well. Set a defensive mine to defend t1. You want to basically support the other player with basically ~60% of the total energy costs for spells that is necessary to clear the base. The supporter should NOT build any units or buildings until the t2 of the other player is cleared. The supported player will go t2 afterwards. The supporter will try to clear his base mostly alone, most of the time he will get only 1 mine and 2 eruptions. Notice that you need sun striders to trap those annoying lost dancer spawns.
  • Nature: Not viable

For 4 Player maps:

On 17.7.2015 at 5:01 PM, Treim said:

T1 - Enemy Lost Souls
This one can get really tricky. If you only get 1-2 manabeasts or treespirits + only squad units, your good to go and just do the same as against Bandits, Stonekin and Twilight. But most of the time you wont be that lucky and face lost vigils in addition. If that's the case you will have to choose one guy who starts shadow, so either position 2 or 3. Who starts shadow depends on how easy the T3 will be and how well he can reach other parts of the map from his side of the map as this guy will have quite significantly more power than everyone else. The other 3 will start fire and just support the hell out of him. Erupt the spawnbuilding (each vigil needs 5-6 eruptions when buffed up, depending on how fast you can erupt). I recommend 2-3 mines and as many eruptions as necessary while the shadow player will tank the damage with 2-3 skeleton warriors (unholy armour obviously active). After that the other inner player will get supported by the 2 outer players and himself. He can take care of the vigils with help of Blaster cannons. I recommend 3-4 nomads for that + 2-3 blaster cannons. Outer players are just defending themselves against the T3 spawn and gather power.


I rarely used this card on any other occasion as you can generally get by without it and due to it being against air only and t1 makes the situations where it actually is the best all around card rather rare.

Edited by Treim
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Thanks @Treim for posting that link, didnt know about that topic, a lot of uselful stuff there :D


Healing gardens is next, rarely used it, guess it was sometimes used for shadow units to keep them alive like mutating frenzy (when powering up with death wish) or shadow worm.

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You're welcome :).


Healing gardens for speedrunning is generally at best optional. Generally it only really is worth it when you are facing massive amounts of damage which are hard to deal with just regular heals and defensive capabilities. That's generally only the case for Twilight lvl 10 maps where you face massive cc and rahter high damage output with very few units as t1-4 are so quickly cleared. There is a few Lost Soul maps which are hard to deal with even with 10-12 LSS as they simply put out so much damage that a few ships can get focussed down very easily.

Even in those cases it  is more of an optional card as you generally can play around those maps. It is more of a safety net if someone messes up positioning.

I really liked using this in Death Ray decks where they constantly chunk of HP from themselves to charge themselves up. That is quite a bit of HP to loose in the process and without Healing gardens it is rather easy to run out of charges even with 2 or 3 healing spells, especially when not refilling charges with Offering accordingly.

I feel like the biggest problem about this card is that you are binding a lot of power in a building that has a use that might or might not be necassary. 240 power to keep the effect running permanently is a lot of power when just reaching t4. This slows you down considerably. Also the problem is that you generally have enough void manipulation to get back power so quickly that it doesn't really matter to use a healing spell one more time.

If you are running a support type of deck i'd definetly recommend this card as well. You will definetly not get anything going damage wise anyways, so building as much support as possible is the best way. So if you are the type of guy who wants to build Wheel of Gifts,, Inc. Mo and Shrine of War stick to that and just add Healing Gardens as you're damage will be negligable anyways - you spend so much power on buildings that your few units can't really go anywhere by themselves anyways.

Btw when facing Lost Souls never build Wheel of Gifts in my games unless you have at least 2 people who only use air units only. The effect will get cancelled out for ground units by Lost Dancers anyways. If i see that it literally tilts me off the earth :) 

Generally this card also gets better the less void manipulation you have as the cost for additional healing spells in contrast to binding 240 power permanently gets increased as you cant back your power from the spell as fast.




For speedrunning:

-Only ever against Twilight lvl 10 or Lost Souls lvl 10 maps with massive bases


For casual play:

-Necassary when running out of healing charges - such as Death Ray deck

-Highly recommend it in supportive decks

-Better for low/no void manipulation decks

-Otherwise at best optional as you will generally not need the extra healing effect if you play properly :). If you mess up it will probably not save you anyways :), but it is an option to help out teammates. The   better option for helping out teammater though is Shrine of War.




Edited by Treim
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Another day another card. The stronghold, back in the days i loved this card, but today im not sure about it any more, cause you guys opened my eyes about so many cards. Cards i liked were bad and cards i disliked were good :D  So what do you guys think about this one.

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I have barely any impression of this card as towers are utterly useless in rPVE and PVP. Also i never used double frost orbs in PVE either.

I feel like you can probably get by with Cannon towers and wait for t4 with Worldbreaker gun generally though. If you really need a t3 towers i feel like Necroblaster would be the better choice as well.

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Uh, I return and it's a frost card xD. Therefore, I don't have much of an opinion on Stronghold. I only know it's stats and it actually is among the best (if not the best) T4 tower in raw stats.

The thing is that by that point in the game you normally have some powerful forces already and you want to have a strong defense AND be mobile. Granted, Frost gives you the possiblities to pay less power for buildings, so it actually may be worth it. Not to mention that buildings have the advantage that they don't contribute to your unit maximum.


However, if I may add to the topic of Healing Gardens I only find myself in agreement with Treim. I did like to use the card in my nature/shadow and nature/fire auxilliary deck. However, I always found it to be the weaker choice compared to Shrine of War in the case of Twilight. But if you truely want an indestructable force you need to use Healing Gardens + Regrowth + Twilight Pestilance (blue).

Get some Abomnations that is arguable (one of) the best T4 XL/XL to begin with and  cast Twilight Pestilance so it takes only 50% damage. Then you add Regrowth with Healing Gardens and you will literally survive any encounter as long as there is not too much enemy CC. The amount of firepower you can tank is just absurd. Therefore, if you have a more macro oriented playstyle I really recommend the card.

I don't think you even need to have 2 gardens active all the time. Just use it when it matters and I admit that SoW is only a matter of preference on my side, SoW is simply not as effective if you don't have weapons of mass destructions available (read Bandits).

Apart from that, it is pretty much a crucial card in shadow/nature. Get Death Rays with Grimvines and let the dark carnival of leeching Rays begin.

But more than just boosting Regrowth I like this card because it adds more utility to the deck. Most people forget the aura of HG and with fast-healing cultist masters you can defend quite well actually. Not to mention that the Cultists will be your primary source of void manipulation (offering Nightcrawlers to the Furnace). Shadow/Nature also adds some other fun possibilities, as it lets you have unlimited T4 charges (offering Rifle Cultists, yay) and Blood Healing along with HG.

All in all, I can only recommend Shadow/Nature to more people, it really is a fun deck that has a unique dynamic to it.

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On 23.7.2017 at 0:06 AM, Mental Omega said:

All in all, I can only recommend Shadow/Nature to more people, it really is a fun deck that has a unique dynamic to it.

YES! The only deck wich let's you get a T4 army of whatever unit you want in a reasonable time. Only possible with resource booster/enlightenment/offering and void manipulation.

Edited by SunWu II.
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  • 4 weeks later...

I thought it's about time we'd dome some more "daily" discussions. And I can't believe we haven't discussed the following unit yet:


After all, I would say that Bloodhorn has become the staple of Renegade edition and clearly is among the best XL/XL creatures hands down. Not only that, but it's splashability makes it possible to play it in a wide range of possible decks.


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In terms of rPVE speedrunning Bloodhorn is an option for either LSS and Batariel decks. It is frequently used when facing at least 2 XL Bosses with massive HP bars or against Twilight maps. It is especially usefull when facing Twilght Infester (i think it was named like that - the Twilight Juggernaut Boss) as it deals massive damage and takes less damage from ranged attacks. Additionally against Twilight ground presence is generally necassary to cast spells such as Earthshaker, Matter Mastery to deal with Willzappers and at lvl 10 cc spells to deal with Wrathgazers and as LSS are generally the way to go Bloodhorn is the best option if you can afford the fire orb in your deck. Alternatively Grimvine is the only other viable option, but slightly tankier but with much less damage. the shadow affinity Bloodhorn 3-4 shots any Boss with the inherent units buff + Unholy Hero + Unholy Power ( not exactly sure if unholy power was necassary for that), Only exception to this rule is Commando Walker, which is the other Unit Bloodhorns are especially valuable against. Bandits are always dealt with by LSS and it generally takes ages to deal with it, even with Fallen Skyelf.

Bloodhorns are easily the 3rd most viable t4 unit right behind LSS and Batariel (4th if you count Rifle cultists) for rPVE

I probably missed out on some things due the large time without playing speedruns. If you are interested in the exact use you should check out my speedrun guide which was written in 2015 with much fresher memories: Have fun in that forgotten thread :)


For casual play Bloodhorns are great units due to their great abilities. Stampeding half a camp and destroying 4 buildings is easily one of the most satisfying things to watch in the game and even has the additional bonus of healing the unit. Both affinities have situations where one is better than the other. For the casual game fire affinity is way better in twilight maps due to the cc immunity while purple is way better at boss slaying. Both have their valuable spots in a deck based around Bloodhorns. Combining thos with spells such as Soulshatter, Frenetic assault, Infect and Cluster Explosion is probably the 2nd fastest way to clear an entire base right behind a buffed up Batariel.

Overall really just a fun card with a great kit.

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