Eirias Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Pure Fire is the strongest deck in my opinion. The reasons are pretty simple1. Juggernaut is the strongest T3 card in the game. 2. map-rng advantages (cliffdancer) -> highest chance out of all decks to get upset wins against a better player -> easy to play 3. strong T2 vs shadow Frost (the most played deck aside from pure fire), because you can protect your Firedancer very well since Enforcer are superior to Nightcrawler & Darkelf Assassins don't have enough damage to kill them fast enough. Didn't want to disappoint you but that's my opinion:Either nerf both Pure Fire & Timeless one or keep everything how it is right now, because the current balancing is the best we've ever had. Aside from OP vileblood of course, hehe ^-^ That makes sense. Aren't shadow phoenixes strong against fire? And mounty or lost reaver? Still, I feel like LS can still turtle through t2 and can have a stronger t3 than pure fire. Grigori can disintegrate juggernaut, for instance, which can't be disenchanted. I think there are ways to modify the shad-frost deck to make it better against a pure fire matchup, but pure fire can't really change the deck at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirooo Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) That makes sense. Aren't shadow phoenixes strong against fire? And mounty or lost reaver? Still, I feel like LS can still turtle through t2 and can have a stronger t3 than pure fire. Grigori can disintegrate juggernaut, for instance, which can't be disenchanted. I think there are ways to modify the shad-frost deck to make it better against a pure fire matchup, but pure fire can't really change the deck at all.Shadowphoenixes arent good vs pure fire. You have a firedancer you can not oneshot 50m from your base. The distance between that is enough to force engagements that are spread out enough that a shadowphoenix will not be efficient.Reaver is fine but decently microed gladis/enforcer can deal with him. Mountaineer is very strong against pure fire but if the pure fire player does not mess up he will be the one attacking. Since pure fire is not afraid to be the first one going t3 the point where you could really start to splittattack while defending is not good enough to delay your own t3.A Grigori can not disintegrate a green disenchanted juggernaut. Edited October 26, 2015 by Hirooo A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Shadowphoenixes arent good vs pure fire. You have a firedancer you can not oneshot 50m from your base. The distance between that is enough to force engagements that are spread out enough that a shadowphoenix will not be efficient.Reaver is fine but decently microed gladis/enforcer can deal with him. Mountaineer is very strong against pure fire but if the pure fire player does not mess up he will be the one attacking. Since pure fire is not afraid to be the first one going t3 the point where you could really start to splittattack while defending is not good enough to delay your own t3.A Grigori can not disintegrate a green disenchanted juggernaut. I'm pretty sure disintegrate is immune to disenchant. I was testing it out as a possible way to avoid the shadow worms in the alpha tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirooo Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'm pretty sure disintegrate is immune to disenchant. I was testing it out as a possible way to avoid the shadow worms in the alpha tournament Thats true but disenchant green blocks every debuff from being applied so if it is already on the unit is stops disintegration. As I wrote you need to have an disenchanted Juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thats true but disenchant green blocks every debuff from being applied so if it is already on the unit is stops disintegration. As I wrote you need to have an disenchanted Juggernaut.I specifically tested this in the forge. Even with a juggernaut, to see if it made a difference. Doesn't work if you apply it before the disintegrate, and you can't apply it after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I specifically tested this in the forge. Even with a juggernaut, to see if it made a difference. Doesn't work if you apply it before the disintegrate, and you can't apply it after.eait what are u sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 eait what are u sure?@Anonymos @Hirooo would you guys like me to record footage to show you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalX Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 @Anonymos @Hirooo would you guys like me to record footage to show you?Would be very nice, because I thought Disenchant green can prevent the disintegration. Maybe the interaction is different now, because there was a hidden disenchant change (lightblade red interaction bugfix). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 could u try it out with the green windhunter aswell?as far as i remember it had still the old disenchant fgreen effect (longer duration as far as i know) if there was an hidden change they might forget it t that unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWu Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) i also remember not being able to disenchant grigs disentegration - i would have definetly used it at 12:30 in this match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkdImAIsUXg , as i never played pure fire without green dis. What i remembered wrong, though, is that the unit doesn't get it's full health back after a failed disintegration, i thought they would heal up. Would be also interesting if frostbite (the 25% more damage affinity) speeds up the disintegration. Can you test that ? Edited October 27, 2015 by SunWu II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) no nothing can speed up the time a unit needs to get disintegrated its base on the unit max hp Edited October 27, 2015 by Anonymos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladadoos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 i also remember not being able to disenchant grigs disentegration - i would have definetly used it at 12:30 in this match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkdImAIsUXg , as i never played pure fire without green dis. What i remembered wrong, though, is that the unit doesn't get it's full health back after a failed disintegration, i thought they would heal up. Would be also interesting if frostbite (the 25% more damage affinity) speeds up the disintegration. Can you test that ?I've done a few tests and these are my conclusions:You are not able to disenchant your unit when it's being disintegrated. It says Invalid Target.Frost bite does not speed up the disintegration.The unit does not lose health after a failed disintegration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWu Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I've done a few tests and these are my conclusions:You are not able to disenchant your unit when it's being disintegrated. It says Invalid Target.Frost bite does not speed up the disintegration.The unit does not lose health after a failed disintegration. Thx for clearing those up. My assumption regarding 3 was that the unit (jugger for example) that survived the disintegration gets its max hp back, but i guess i confused it with wrathgazer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladadoos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thx for clearing those up. My assumption regarding 3 was that the unit (jugger for example) that survived the disintegration gets its max hp back, but i guess i confused it with wrathgazer.Wrathgazers also leave the target unharmed if the disintegration process is interrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunWu Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Wrathgazers also leave the target unharmed if the disintegration process is interrupted.and isn't the target unit completly healed if it was let's say half-health before the attack ? Edited October 27, 2015 by SunWu II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachtalb Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 guys you are kind of going offtopic, but i still love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladadoos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 and isn't the target unit completly healed if it was let's say half-health before the attack ?The unit doesn't get fully healed after the failed disintegration. It simply is left over with the HP it had before the disintegration started.guys you are kind of going offtopic, but i still love you I'm sorry. @SunWu II. If you would like for me to do more tests feel free to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirooo Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I've done a few tests and these are my conclusions:You are not able to disenchant your unit when it's being disintegrated. It says Invalid Target. Its about disenchanting with green before you disintegrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladadoos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Its about disenchanting with green before you disintegrate.Nonetheless, a disenchanted unit that has the debuff-immunity can still be disintegrated by the Lost Grigori. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirooo Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Nonetheless, a disenchanted unit that has the debuff-immunity can still be disintegrated by the Lost Grigori.And like asked here: How about windhunterdisenchant? And can you currently disenchant lightblade(both affinities)?@cdkillroy You better explain this. Edited October 27, 2015 by Hirooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagOps Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 i can recall lb taunt causing issues with disenchant, i think disenchanting after the taunt didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladadoos Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 And like asked here: How about windhunterdisenchant? And can you currently disenchant lightblade(both affinities)?Windhunter disenchant works the same as nature disenchant card. The Provoke abilty of both lightblades are disenchantable. It still shows that your unit has Provoke, but you are able to move your unit like you normaly would after you disenchanted it. Even after the debuff-immunity ends, you're still able to control your unit.This is what I meant when I said that the Provoke on my unit didn't get removed (although I am able to control my unit):Please PM me if you want me to do more tests as I believe @Nachtalb would rather not have these off-topic discussions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachtalb Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Actualy it's ok, because i find it interesting myself how theese mechanics now realy work and we anyway discuss possible Bugs that are interesting for PvP Balance here as well, so it is not realy Offtopic when i think about it again. Edited October 27, 2015 by Nachtalb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirias Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 And like asked here: How about windhunterdisenchant? And can you currently disenchant lightblade(both affinities)?@cdkillroy You better explain this.Yes...for the alpha tournament the very first thing I tried was a windhunter self disenchant with ice barrier before I read the rest of the rules . My original statement concerned the windhunter, and I checked to make sure it also didn't work on juggers.Also, ice shields and damage reducers (like defenders or commandos or imperials stance) do not affect disintegration time. I guess a side effect of this is that stonekin cards are slightly more susceptible to disenchant than otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachtalb Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Ok guys, one last question here again ^^ .. I went through the thread and somehow i'd like to hear some opinions about Stormsinger. I recall that some people thought the buff of stormsinger made her too strong and somehow i can understand this point of view (though i was happy about the buff as fire/frost player). What do you think about this folks? At the moment my list of further discusable things would be:T1: Tree Spirits OP, Phasetower slightly OP and Mortar slightly OPT2: Bandits UP, Stormsinger slightly OP (?)T3: Shield Building OP, Timeless One Ability OP+ ALL BUGFIXES Edited October 28, 2015 by Nachtalb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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