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Primeval Watcher - Upcoming Changes


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As part of our upcoming Nature balance changes, Primeval Watcher will be receiving the following proposed changes. Please note that all changes proposed here are provisional and as such as subject to change:

Iteration 1
1. Orb cost: 2 Nature, 2 Neutral --> 3 Nature, 1 Neutral
2. Power cost: 260p --> 250p
3. Damage: 600/288/192/127/84 (6550 dp20) -->  600/300/200/150/120 (6950 dp20)
4. Stasis Field: Can now be cast on a target area within a 30m radius.
   - "Activate to paralyze up to 5 / 5 / 5 / 7 enemies within a 25m radius for 10 / 12 / 15 / 15 seconds at a target location. After the effect wears off, targets are immune against Paralyze for a while. Reusable every 30 seconds."

Iteration 1 Goals
Primeval Watcher is the primary backline damage unit for Pure Nature. We want to increase its overall strength and the flexibility of Primeval Watcher's paralyze ability to allow for more offensive application, but to do this we need to move the unit to a more restrict orb requirement. The increase in later waves of its attack is meant to help it in killing priority targets in the backline, particularly spawn buildings which Nature has a hard time reaching. This is meant to be combined with upcoming changes to Forest Elder and Colossus.

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If Primeval Watcher is to go 3Nature1Neutral, I think Nature itself needs a replacement. Every faction has at least two 2Factioncolor2Neutral units for committed hybrid decks or dipping two orbs deep into one color.

This effectively leaves Nature with zero, because Spore Launcher is a root-card and has niche needs. Sure, you have Grimvine and Giant Wyrm as even more flexible splashes but that ain't the same. Primeval Watcher always was the sole T4 unit Nature offered as an "upgrade" for 2Nature splash.

Alternatively, instead of increasing the orb requirements, an ability cost could be added since it is now much more powerful.

Or an orb-swap with Colossus could be considered as well. So Primeval Watcher 3Nature1Neutral and Colossus 2Nature2Neutral.

Lans and Blashyrkh like this
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On 4/2/2022 at 9:54 PM, OwedEvil said:

I never see anyone using Primeval.  These changes are all good.

I use him quite frequently in rPvE in a :natureorb::natureorb::shadoworb::shadoworb: deck and it work super well. I'm a bit sad, that this deck will no longer work afterwards, but maybe I can find a new way to play it afterwards.

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primeval is pure natures best ranged unit currently so the reason nobody ever sees it is because pure nature is so unpopular. It does only 15 less damage per main hit than wyrm with similar attack speed but also tons of trash clear. It can solo kill an abom using its free ability surviving with more hp than an ironclad. Its free ability is aoe cc for free and depending on position of your army can cc an entire camp with 1 click of a button... for free. 

Granted these new changes will make it take longer to cc multiple areas but it will be able to use each ability more efficiently without suffering from overlap. 

The buffs to power cost and damage on chain attacks are a nice qol overall that imo watcher didnt even need but are appreciated nonetheless. 

The main thing that will make them more playable will be making pure nature more playable and i think in this respect the orb reqs arent a huge issue. No one in stonekin will be using them over gemeyes and while they technically are the best ranged for twilight, thats really just skycat needing to be buffed which will likely happen during the twilight rework and no one uses watchers in twilight now (plus creeper spam exists if someone really wants twilight ranged). I do think it is technically a bit of a loss for amii but we cant really balance around a faction with like 3 cards in it anyways. I think changing to 3 nature will make it parallel to other primary 3+1 orb t4 archers like ironclad and thunder wagon.

Edited by JarodDempsey
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On 4/5/2022 at 1:26 AM, Blashyrkh said:

I don't see why these changes should change that. The new orb requirement to 3nature1neutral will not make this better.

I second this. These changes will not work.

 

No one uses primeval watcher because ground ranged overall is slower and thus vulnerable to ai anti ranged silence debuffs, especially after lost dancer debuffing. The game also has poor ground pathing around buildings for XL creatures. Forcing it to 3 green and giving it slightly more dps and more paralysis ability does not help address this and puts this card into trash territory.

 

Giving it more paralysis when that's not the problem just puzzles me. Oh, walk up to the enemy and use ability? A twi whisperer silenced all my watchers from shooting again .... wow such fun.

On 4/6/2022 at 8:44 PM, JarodDempsey said:

primeval is pure natures best ranged unit currently

Its 2 green 2 neutral. Twilight, stonekin colors.

 

The GMs are proposing to removing an okay creature from their roster and shoving

it into 3 green without significantly useful buffs.

Edited by chickennoodler
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7 hours ago, chickennoodler said:

Its 2 green 2 neutral. Twilight, stonekin colors.

although it currently has the orb reqs to be used in those decks, it isnt. the only deck its often used in is pure nature. stonekin has gemeyes and twilight has trash clear via spells. as i meantioned in my original comment, only amii stands to lose a significant potential strategy but since theres only a few cards in that faction, balance for pure nature should come first.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The thing is, that going pure nature or even 3 nature currently isn´t rewarded enought by more/better card options. So by buffing the card but increasing the orb-requirements you do exactly that: reward players that want to go 3 Nature with a more powerful option.

The only bad thing is that this also means that this also influences other current decks, that don´t have any other good 2-Nature option, like Metagross mentioned 2 N 2 Shadow. But that can and should in my opinion be counterbalanced by adding a new Amii T4 ranged unit that fills that role.
(Stonekin- and Twilight-decks don´t actually need primeval watcher, as these decks have Gemeye and Skycatcher and so on)

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9 hours ago, WindHunter said:

A certain distant Twilight cousin of Primeval Watcher may or may not be on the horizon...

Nice, cause I only use Twilight, my T4 is Wyrm, Abomination and Watcher, I could get the Skycatcher and probably should, but he expensive and I'm trying to get one from boosters lol. 

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