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MrXLink

UPDATE: BFP Reserves and Boosters

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Hail, Skylords, Skyladies, and other Skyfolk,

A while back, we implemented the Reserve System for BattleForge Points (BFP) onto the test server to figure out the effects of a new way to earn BFP to replace the daily playtime quest. It's a system that's designed to keep providing BFP even after your daily quests, while also helping those who don't have as much time on their hands or require breaks to be able to catch up on the more hardcore, long-session player base so that every player can build their decks faster and playtime will have more meaning again.

To catch up on the Reserve System, have a look in the announcement thread made back when we introduced it over here.

Since we implemented it, there's been a lot of community feedback and internal discussion about the system, how it works, what effects it has and how we can improve it. We figured that the original system parameters would not give a lot of players the chance to make good use out of the reserve system, and those with a lot of time would be able to earn vast amounts of BFP without seeing much of a slowdown. Additionally, this system would require players to play every day in order to keep up with the BFP flow, putting a lot of pressure on them, which is not the intention of this earning system.

Some people put a lot of research into the current system. Thanks a lot for that! Your feedback has been most valuable. For the upcoming changes, some important concerns were addressed in the system, keeping in mind to not change too much too drastically at the same time. In other words, any more drastic suggestions have been noted, and may still be considered for the future if necessary.

Without further ado, here's the changes that will be live now on the test server. Want to test these changes before we try them out on the live production server? Head over to our Discord (#dev-updates-test-server) to download the test server launcher.

The TL;DR Version: BFP Reserves & Quests

  • Decreased the maximum amount of time to earn daily rewards from 90 to 60 minutes, increasing the effectiveness of the daily boost.
  • Increased the Refill Rate Constant (C) from 5 to 30, meaning the maximum amount of BFP that can be earned on a day is significantly lowered, thus preventing players with less time on their hands from falling behind as much.
  • Increased the Drain Rate Constant (X) from 3 to 7, meaning you will earn a lot more BFP per minute once the reserve system kicks in.
  • 60% of any leftover/missed Daily Boost (out of 250 per day) will carry over to the next time you play, up to a maximum of 300 BFP stored.
    • This means up to 2 full days can be missed while still carrying over 60% of missed BFP.
  • Added a maximum match time to prevent system abuse and farmbotting.
  • Added a 100BFP discount to your next booster purchased that only gets activated once your daily boost has been depleted. 
  • Increased the maximum amount of quests that can be active at a time from 3 to 6. You will still get 2 quests per day and can save up to 3 days worth of quests.
  • None of these changes are set in stone; we will be able to tweak values and change features where needed!

Further QoL Updates

  • Decreased the minimum PvE/PvP rank to apply upgrades to cards to lv. 1, 4, and 5 for U1, 2 and 3 respectively.
    • Upgrade Player Level requirements are now universal regardless of card rarity.
    • Changed upgrade player level requirements to be the highest level ever earned rather than current level (affects PvP only) (planned, not yet implemented on test)
  • Decreased the rPvE level quest requirement from 6 to 5.
    • The quest description still states 6, but will complete on level 5 as well.
  • Achievements, quests and possibly gold tweaks are in the pipeline for pre-reset internal discussion in the near future.
  • Look forward to new, faction-based boosters coming your way very soon!

In-Depth: BFP Reserves & Quests

When making changes to the BFP system, it's important to incorporate feedback into an existing system to tweak and optimise it for the player. The current system was pretty well-received so far, but had its initial flaws. Way too much BFP could be earned on a day, the gap between casual and hardcore wasn't fixed, and extremely long play sessions provided some unwanted results. There's also been the major concern about the system itself, where the current essence of the 30-minute quest was to have the reliability to earn at least a booster per day, and while that would mean it would be the only reward to be earned alongside some quest BFP, it was also something fun to be anticipated. With these concerns in mind, we made the following changes:

The Daily Boost will now be earned in 60 minutes of game time. 90 minutes simply turned out to be too long considering average match length and the amount of time players would like to spend on a daily basis. With the Reserve system, earning BFP beyond the current daily limit is possible and that will help motivate the long-session players a bit more instead.

The Refill Rate Constant has been increased dramatically. This will actively enforce a more manageable BFP softcap than before. Where extremely long playtimes could previously have helped to give 1.5K+ BFP per day, this has now been lowered to a more comfortable 800 BFP total. This total is based on 250 BFP from Daily Boost, 150 BFP from 2 Quests per day, and a theoretical 24hr Playtime Rewards Non-Stop of 400BFP. For short-session players or those who have just dipped their toes in the Reserve system, not a lot will change. Only very long-term sessions and matches will see a difference, which means that more casual players have a better chance and an easier time catching up in BFP, bringing everything in a way better and more controlled proportion.

The Drain Rate Constant has been increased significantly. To compensate for the lower maximum amount of BFP earnable through reserves, as well as to simply give everyone a better and faster BFP-earning experience, payouts will be a lot higher on full reserves. The curve is a lot steeper, and long sessions will get to lower BFP payouts a bit quicker than before, but should still be able to get a neat amount of BFP for their time. This should resolve the concerns that arose about the reserve system netting very little BFP compared to the daily bonus.

To prevent AFK/Botting abuse giving unfair advantages or ruining games, a maximum match time has been set for BFP payouts. Normal players should typically not notice much of this.

Carry-over mechanic: It's okay to miss a day! One of the most prominent suggestions has been to somehow make up for any missed days by either making the reserve system span across multiple days, to pay out more during weekends, or to catch up otherwise. This makes a lot of sense, and so we're implementing a carry-over system: Quests can now stack up to 6 and you can carry over your daily boost throughout multiple days. You can even carry over a bit of the remainder of an existing boost in case you can't play the full daily hour.

60% of the remainder of a daily boost is now carried over to the next time you play, meaning you can save up to 150 BFP each day to add up to your next daily boost. Up to 300 BFP can be saved at a time, and saved BFP drains along with the normal daily boost when you come back, so you will be able to gain up to 550 BFP in an hour of playtime on the day you come back. We feel like 3 days is a good guideline to stick to when it comes to casual compensation, and so up to 3 days worth of quests and dailies can be stored. Of course, playing every day will still give out more BFP, but this system should put less pressure on the more casual or busy player and help to compensate for work, breaks, or other times where they may be unavailable. 

The Daily Booster Replacement. In order to give people more freedom to use their daily reward, we have previously decided to hand out BFP instead of a booster each day. However, with the amount of BFP earned not being as high (due to it being distributed across a reserve system), the "booster-a-day" system didn't apply anymore and could feel way less rewarding than intended. To mitigate this problem, we will give a 100BFP discount on the next booster you buy every single day after completing your daily bonus time. This discount will apply to the current booster and upcoming booster types. Therefore, you will now be able to buy a booster after completing your daily playtime and daily quests (and have 50BFP left over before reserves kick in). You can give that booster a go and perhaps get that Ultra Rare at a discounted rate, or you can freely spend your BFP in trades or the Auction Hall. The choice is yours!

In-Depth: Further News

We have also made a few minor quality-of-life changes currently only the test server to make the game a little more forgiving for certain players. In particular, the PvP-heavy new player experience will be a lot more bearable due to us dramatically lowering the level requirement for upgrading your cards. In order to buy/apply upgrades, whereas formerly you would need to get to relatively high PvP or PvE ranks, we have now unified and lowered the requirements to level 1 for upgrade 1 (soldier/watcher), level 4 for upgrade 2 (warrior/keeper), and level 5 for upgrade 3 (aggressor/tactician) respectively of either rank. This goes for all cards of all rarities, so UR cards won't require a ridiculous rank anymore for those who don't wish to grind PvE. Additionally, it is planned that the rank requirement applies to the highest rank attained; if you drop in rank due to PvP degradation, you will still be able to upgrade your cards as if you were your highest level. PvP-centered players should experience a significantly smoother deck building rate this way, and are less restricted in their early days.

Due to some newcomers finding rPvE level 6 a little to harsh to start off with, we have reduced the rPvE quest requirement to level 5 instead. We believe level 5 should be achievable even with starter decks without upgrades. Must this still give you trouble, you can now stack your quest up for longer until you manage to beat level 5, or you have the choice to re-roll if it's not your day for it and still need some amount of payout.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, it is worth mentioning that we do try to take into account as much feedback as we can in these decisions. Perhaps your idea did not get implemented, perhaps you disagree with the changes. Please do know that we still appreciate your feedback and would love to continue hearing your suggestions and feelings about the state of the game and its updates, and do be aware that while features suggested may not always be implemented, they are still being considered and accounted for where possible and viable; existing feedback on the BFP system, for example, will still be considered for the future, and won't be void after this update.

We're making lots of progress on the design side of the project and are able to tweak and implement the features necessary to keep progressing at a very steady pace. The reset is getting ever closer, and we've got more game updates coming your way in the near future. Next up: expanding the booster market! New booster types will be coming your way very soon to add some variety to the store and allow you to be less dependent on the RNG that a regular booster would offer, and tailor your rewards more to your needs! Further down the road are achievements, quests, perhaps some gold tweaks and more, so stay tuned for more of that in the near future, and we would love to hear your suggestions and feedback in the meantime! 

None of these changes are necessarily final, and we will keep reiterating to keep improving Skylords Reborn!

This update is currently live on our test server, so feel free to enjoy and test the heck out of it there. It will stay on the test server until we determine that the system is stable enough and there are no major flaws or bugs present to push to the main live server. To enter the test server, head over to our Discord (#dev-updates-test-server) to download the test server launcher.

Stay tuned, stay safe, and stay divine, guardians of Nyn!

RadicalX, Karl Lavafeld and wanky like this

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Pretty nice concept! I am pretty excited to the next steps! Have a great one everyone. I am pretty on other games of these times, but I follow every steps you do! It is insanely cool works you do! It is awesome!

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I understand the changes, but shouldn't frequent play also be awarded somehow? My suggestion would be to maybe create a system of a daily login that awards you BF. Maybe make it give you 10-20 bf points on a daily basis (not a huge BF amount, cause the gap between frequent play and people that can't play frequently shouldn't be so huge)? 

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13 minutes ago, Rynkan said:

I understand the changes, but shouldn't frequent play also be awarded somehow? My suggestion would be to maybe create a system of a daily login that awards you BF. Maybe make it give you 10-20 bf points on a daily basis (not a huge BF amount, cause the gap between frequent play and people that can't play frequently shouldn't be so huge)? 

Frequent (daily) play is already rewarded with the daily boost. You get 250bfp daily if you play one hour while if you don't play  150bfp of it is stored for the next day (to a max of 550). So playing each day let's you earn 100bfp more than someone who skips a day. 

Rynkan and Lavos2018 like this

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1 hour ago, MephistoRoss said:

Frequent (daily) play is already rewarded with the daily boost. You get 250bfp daily if you play one hour while if you don't play  150bfp of it is stored for the next day (to a max of 550). So playing each day let's you earn 100bfp more than someone who skips a day. 

+ even more playtime rewards if you play longer than 60 mins

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Posted (edited)

I really like the changes this way, just would love to see some more variations in the Quests. Would love to see some different difficulties.
For example a easy quest could be upgrade some cards. If you have saved gold you can do this mission in some seconds, else you have to farm. 
A hard quest could be doing a special mission on high difficulty, which still could be rerolled but with a lot of thoughts and a good deck can be handeled in more than one hour. This way you give players a reason to spend more than one hour in the game, while still feeling a little more rewarded. 

Moreover i would love to see some number/dmg/life tweaks to some rare used cards, to give us a reason to try new decks instead the common used decks. Number tweaks shouldn't take to long to implement and could be reverted fast.

Some ideas from my side, keep the good work up!

Edited by Punchbag

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So... whats the total of bfp you can get a day from playing?

To be honest playing 60 minutes a day in order to get a reward seems to be a lot for me. Since i play around 40 minutes and spend 10 in ah/trading.

I think you should make it si you can get a booster per day somehow. Otherwise the prices on cards will raise making them unnaccesible for new players (you can buy a shaman card in 2 days now, with the new system it will be 3 dayss)

Also, you should do something about the cards that we dont need and have more than 3 of... most of them dont sell on ah and new players dont want them lol... is there a way that we van convert those into gold?

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1 hour ago, SirDenis said:

So... whats the total of bfp you can get a day from playing?

The total bfp you can get with this system is dependent on several factors, like if you didnt play the day before.

So if you didnt play 2 days before the specific day, you can get 550 from daily boost and 450 from quests (1000bfp) in total for 1 hour of playtime. After the first hour the reserve starts which is really depending on how much time you play exactly that day and the breaks inbetween. I would estimate about 350bfp in one day if you play really a lot (which I dont think many will reach in practice), so that would make about 1350bfp in total.

1 hour ago, SirDenis said:

To be honest playing 60 minutes a day in order to get a reward seems to be a lot for me. Since i play around 40 minutes and spend 10 in ah/trading.

You dont need to play the full 60 minutes with this system to get a reward, if you play 40 minutes you will get the reward for the 40 minutes (unlike the current booster-quest where you get nothing if you play 29minutes). So 40 minutes playtime will let you drain 166bfp from the daily boost if nothing was carried over from previous days.

1 hour ago, SirDenis said:

I think you should make it si you can get a booster per day somehow. Otherwise the prices on cards will raise making them unnaccesible for new players (you can buy a shaman card in 2 days now, with the new system it will be 3 dayss)

With these values you need to play 48 minutes to be able to buy a booster each day if nothing was carried over from previous days and you finish 2 quests in that time. The next day you would need to play even less because a part of the leftover daily-boost is transfered to the next day which let you drain the daily boost a bit faster.

1 hour ago, SirDenis said:

Also, you should do something about the cards that we dont need and have more than 3 of... most of them dont sell on ah and new players dont want them lol... is there a way that we van convert those into gold?

Several suggestions like this have been made, but nothing concrete has been decided yet. It is not a priority right now but it will be on the agenda in the future for sure.

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On 4/20/2020 at 1:49 AM, MrXLink said:

Hail, Skylords, Skyladies, and other Skyfolk,

...

But a massive part of the fun is opening the daily booster, even if you don’t get great cards it still freshens up the experience with the ability to spice up your decks with a card you never had and so had never thought of 😞

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2 hours ago, Shlimms said:

But a massive part of the fun is opening the daily booster, even if you don’t get great cards it still freshens up the experience with the ability to spice up your decks with a card you never had and so had never thought of 😞

You can still open a daily booster if you want generally, we are just giving more options to players by not forcing them with a booster

Just now, macabi said:

Is the 30 minute quest for a booster going away?

Yes

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1 minute ago, Ultrakool said:

Yes

That is very bad IMO.

Earning a booster is the most fun element of the reward system.

You are basically replacing 30 minute quest that earns a free booster (worth 450 BFP) with 250 BFP reward for 60 minutes of game play. 

You are making it harder to earn BFP/Boosters, so where is the fun in that?

If a player doesn't want his earned booster, then he can sell/trade it at a discount (400+ BFP).

I see players offering their boosters all the time.

At the very least, booster cost should be lowered to 200 BFP.

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1 hour ago, macabi said:

That is very bad IMO.

Earning a booster is the most fun element of the reward system.

You are basically replacing 30 minute quest that earns a free booster (worth 450 BFP) with 250 BFP reward for 60 minutes of game play. 

You are making it harder to earn BFP/Boosters, so where is the fun in that?

If a player doesn't want his earned booster, then he can sell/trade it at a discount (400+ BFP).

I see players offering their boosters all the time.

At the very least, booster cost should be lowered to 200 BFP.

Not everyone likes to get a booster as reward because it is too RNG dependent. Many people always try to sell it indeed, but they cant always find a buyer. I've seen people who have over 100 unopened now. So we wanted people to have a choice what they get as reward: keep the bfp or buy a discounted booster (350bfp) once a day. 

One of the problems of the current rewards is that people play 30 minutes to finish the quests and they complain they dont have any incentive to play that day anymore because they cant earn more bfp. This reward system always let you earn bfp, but it is more spread over time. So yes the first 30 minutes will let you earn less than the current rewards, but if you play longer you are able to earn even more than the current system. And to compensate casual players who don't play each day, quests (100%) and daily boost (60%) are carried over for up to 2 days. So you will be able to earn 1000bfp in only 1 hour when you didnt play the last 2 days. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MephistoRoss said:

Not everyone likes to get a booster as reward because it is too RNG dependent. Many people always try to sell it indeed, but they cant always find a buyer. I've seen people who have over 100 unopened now. So we wanted people to have a choice what they get as reward: keep the bfp or buy a discounted booster (350bfp) once a day. 

One of the problems of the current rewards is that people play 30 minutes to finish the quests and they complain they dont have any incentive to play that day anymore because they cant earn more bfp. This reward system always let you earn bfp, but it is more spread over time. So yes the first 30 minutes will let you earn less than the current rewards, but if you play longer you are able to earn even more than the current system. And to compensate casual players who don't play each day, quests (100%) and daily boost (60%) are carried over for up to 2 days. So you will be able to earn 1000bfp in only 1 hour when you didnt play the last 2 days. 

That plan may be a good deal for players who play once every 3 days, but a bad deal for players such as myself who play every day.

Are we trying to encourage players to play once in every 3 days instead of every day?

That is what the end result is going to be.....

Players who want more reward, can still continue to play to earn 150 BFP for the two additional quests we currently have.

So some days I earn a booster (worth 450 BFP) plus 150 BFP for 2 quests (600 BFP).

I usually play an hour or more to achieve that.

With the new plan you are reducing my daily reward to 400 BFP (33% reduction).

If you want to give players who don't play every day more reward then that's fine.

But don't reduce the reward for players who play every day, where is the sense in that?

I understand that some players prefer BFP over a booster.

That's fine, then add an option to "re-roll" the booster reward to BFP.

Either that, or reduce the booster cost to 250 BFP so I can use my 250 BFP reward to buy a booster.

Your discounted booster for 350 BFP is still a bad deal for players who prefer a booster over BFP.

Edit: 

I just went Online and saw a message from a player who was trying to sell a booster for 420 BFP.

I offered him 250, and his response was - "funny".

I believe that the vast majority of players open their boosters.

IMO, eliminating the booster reward will make many players upset.

 

Edited by macabi

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3 minutes ago, macabi said:

Are we trying to encourage players to play once in every 3 days instead of every day?

If you play every day 1 hour for 3 days, you still earn more than someone who plays once in 3 days (1200bfp vs 1000bfp). But maybe the difference should be a bit higher for more incentive to play every day. I wonder what other people think about this?

The current system is highly favourable for players who play every day 30-60 minutes. But it is not really fair for players who cant play each day but play a longer time in the weekend, nor casual players who play every once in a while for a couple hours, nor players who play longer than 1 hour nor players who play less than 30 minutes. With the new system we are trying to balance it to be more fair for all categories of players, not just one. In your calculation you forgot the daily booster discount, so if you play exactly 1 hour each day you are reduced 100bfp if you buy a booster each day, but of course now there will also be incentive for you to play longer each day to earn more.

Also note that as an addition to the new reward system we are planning to add more achievements that will let you earn rewards including bfp and boosters. That is why the 'average' of the new system might be a little lower than the current rewards, but the new achievements will compensate for that.

If you have other ideas for the new reward system than the current proposal, we are very open to that, but please keep in mind other categories of players instead of just your own situation.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MephistoRoss said:

If you play every day 1 hour for 3 days, you still earn more than someone who plays once in 3 days (1200bfp vs 1000bfp). But maybe the difference should be a bit higher for more incentive to play every day. I wonder what other people think about this?

The current system is highly favourable for players who play every day 30-60 minutes. But it is not really fair for players who cant play each day but play a longer time in the weekend, nor casual players who play every once in a while for a couple hours, nor players who play longer than 1 hour nor players who play less than 30 minutes. With the new system we are trying to balance it to be more fair for all categories of players, not just one. In your calculation you forgot the daily booster discount, so if you play exactly 1 hour each day you are reduced 100bfp if you buy a booster each day, but of course now there will also be incentive for you to play longer each day to earn more.

Also note that as an addition to the new reward system we are planning to add more achievements that will let you earn rewards including bfp and boosters. That is why the 'average' of the new system might be a little lower than the current rewards, but the new achievements will compensate for that.

If you have other ideas for the new reward system than the current proposal, we are very open to that, but please keep in mind other categories of players instead of just your own situation.

I understand what you are trying to achieve and that makes sense, you want to reward casual players who don't play every day who play longer on days they do play.

However, under the new system players who play every day earn less than they earned before.

Even with the 100 BFP discount, every day players will effectively earn 500 BFP compared to 600 BFP as of today.

I don't know how achievements are going to work and how often they reward, so I cannot calculate their benefit.

My suggestion is - allow players to re-roll their 60 minute/250 BFP quest to a booster since daily players are still 100 BFP short.

A simpler option - allow players to buy one Booster for 250 BFP (200 discount) per day after they completed their 60 minutes daily game time.

This way both groups of players benefit from the new changes.

Edit:

Another idea to make it more fun and exciting (assuming it is not too hard to code):

Add a new feature where players have 10% chance to win a free booster when they buy a booster.

 

 

Edited by macabi

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On 4/22/2020 at 12:08 PM, MephistoRoss said:

The total bfp you can get with this system is dependent on several factors, like if you didnt play the day before.

So if you didnt play 2 days before the specific day, you can get 550 from daily boost and 450 from quests (1000bfp) in total for 1 hour of playtime. After the first hour the reserve starts which is really depending on how much time you play exactly that day and the breaks inbetween. I would estimate about 350bfp in one day if you play really a lot (which I dont think many will reach in practice), so that would make about 1350bfp in total.

You dont need to play the full 60 minutes with this system to get a reward, if you play 40 minutes you will get the reward for the 40 minutes (unlike the current booster-quest where you get nothing if you play 29minutes). So 40 minutes playtime will let you drain 166bfp from the daily boost if nothing was carried over from previous days.

With these values you need to play 48 minutes to be able to buy a booster each day if nothing was carried over from previous days and you finish 2 quests in that time. The next day you would need to play even less because a part of the leftover daily-boost is transfered to the next day which let you drain the daily boost a bit faster.

Several suggestions like this have been made, but nothing concrete has been decided yet. It is not a priority right now but it will be on the agenda in the future for sure.

Thank you very much for all these clarification, now i understand it, and it seems to be better than before!

 

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With the faction-based boosters my dream came true and thank god no more bandit cards XD

Btw i really want to thank you for bringing back my favourite game from my childhood and with this update you prove this game is in the best and smartest hands, the battleforge community could use !!! Rly like the changes and the future plan!

Can i ask how much time the update will be on the live servers ???

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2 minutes ago, HandsomeD said:

With the faction-based boosters my dream came true and thank god no more bandit cards XD

Btw i really want to thank you for bringing back my favourite game from my childhood and with this update you prove this game is in the best and smartest hands, the battleforge community could use !!! Rly like the changes and the future plan!

Can i ask how much time the update will be on the live servers ???

We can’t say since it’s quite intensive to implement, and then it needs to be in a stable state to be able to bring onto the live servers 

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Posted (edited)

Because MrXLinks system will give longer matches more BFP than multiple shorter matches with the same length, I made a system which will give you BFP completely independent from the match length. I tried to make it similar to his one. Just total played time counts. (Why should you get less BFP for 2x 30 minute matches than 1x 60 minutes match even through you played in both cases 60 minutes in total?)

Here is a raw video. I have not done any cutting to it, so it is quite long:

(Keep in mind that this video is raw. So maybe not everything, what I say, has to be 100% correct)

You should have watched Part 1 and Part 2 before watching Part 3:
Part 1: https://youtu.be/4C7gPHZZtFI
Part 2: https://youtu.be/jupjax1TZ9s

Here is the example code that I mentioned in the video: BFP_System.cpp
The spreadsheet (you need the free and Open Source program LibreOffice to open that file): Reserve_publish.ods

Edit: I noticed that I put a bracket at the wrong position. Here is the corrected example code: BFP_System_correction.cpp

Edited by Halis

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9 minutes ago, Halis said:

Because MrXLinks system will give longer matches more BFP than multiple shorter matches with the same length

Actually that is not true anymore (since last patch), the server calculates the bfp gain/reserve each minute now during matches. Nevertheless thanks for proposing your own system, will look into it.

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40 minutes ago, Halis said:

MrXLink did not meantioned that in his post, so I could not know :)

its a new thing we just added :3

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Im new to the game and was wondering is there a way to see when you get the BFP from the reserve and in that case where. So far ive only seen the quests and the achivments.

 

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