Reset leaderboards

[DieToPlay]

Why are the leaderboards not reset if so many changes went live?

[Loriens]

It was just forgotten. Already wrote about it in Discord.

[DieToPlay]

46 minutes ago, Loriens said:

It was just forgotten. Already wrote about it in Discord.

The right thing is to reset.

Edited May 21, 2023 by DieToPlay

[Volin]

12 hours ago, DieToPlay said:

Why are the leaderboards not reset if so many changes went live?

I see no all time affected by the current changes, but I'm not as deep into this as you are. What maps do you think are affected by the current patch?

 

[Loriens]

3 hours ago, Volin said:

I see no all time affected by the current changes, but I'm not as deep into this as you are. What maps do you think are affected by the current patch?

 

Slave Master for example cannot be beaten since previous patch, so it was  quite obvious that at least on this patch there will be reset.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Loriens

[DieToPlay]

5 hours ago, Volin said:

I see no all time affected by the current changes, but I'm not as deep into this as you are. What maps do you think are affected by the current patch?

 

It was stated that any changes to the game will be followed with a full leaderboard reset, as it should.

[wanky]

i think the change to breeding and to Sow can potentionaly kill speedrun alltimes possibilitis. (f.e. Rpve games, but in this case its hard to say buz its diffrend for each month) 
Tbh i am not deep into the changes, so i cant say if any of the changes actually "kill" the pontentional to beat alltime times

[Kapo]

I think that if "any changes" occur the leaderboard will be reset, thats kinda going to far. Not sure that that was really stated, but I could be wrong.

But if, like wanky mentioned, some integral things like the SoW changes on such a fundamental level, a reset is warranted - even if the theoretical top time just drops by a second, it has become unattainable so competing for top times stops to make sense. So I'm not surprised, as Liorans wrote, it has just been forgotten and will come Soon(TM).

Maybe one of the Admins or High-Level Devs may confirm?

[Volin]

1 hour ago, Kapo said:

I think that if "any changes" occur the leaderboard will be reset, thats kinda going to far. Not sure that that was really stated, but I could be wrong.

But if, like wanky mentioned, some integral things like the SoW changes on such a fundamental level, a reset is warranted - even if the theoretical top time just drops by a second, it has become unattainable so competing for top times stops to make sense. So I'm not surprised, as Liorans wrote, it has just been forgotten and will come Soon(TM).

Maybe one of the Admins or High-Level Devs may confirm?

I am just writing this as a player, not in any official way. Just saying, because of my official title, but I cannot and will not ever speak for the project.

I can well understand the question for a reset on Slave Master, tho that was not what was brought up by the TO. But this is indeed one that should be reset!

I am, as known, not even a little bit in the cpve-speedrun topic. But I don't see any of the changes in the current patch affecting any alltime, which is why I asked for maps that are affected (and why). Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not saying there are no other affected Alltimes, but I and the people I talk to don't see them.

For the rpve I see no impact for several reasons, the most important being: The current times are as far from a deep grind as they could be. Both times in 4player could be easily beaten if only two things come together: easy map + some competition.
Breeding and SOW changes certainly have a huge impact on casual play, but I can't see any impact on speedruns in rpve so far. Breeding is usually not used and from the first tests you can easily work around the SOW-changes, as a double or triple Fire Orb player is useful anyways.

I'm not saying that the Rpve ladder should not be reset, I just don't see any reason to. I am open to any constructive discussion and would like to be convinced.

 

On 5/22/2023 at 3:01 PM, DieToPlay said:

It was stated that any changes to the game will be followed with a full leaderboard reset

Never heard of it either @Kapo, nor would it make sense to me. Not saying it was not said, just saying I never heard of it.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Volin

[Loriens]

2 hours ago, Kapo said:

I think that if "any changes" occur the leaderboard will be reset, thats kinda going to far. Not sure that that was really stated, but I could be wrong.

So I'm not surprised, as Liorans wrote, it has just been forgotten and will come Soon(TM).

Maybe one of the Admins or High-Level Devs may confirm?

Seems like it was just idea, which never became principle.

[Metagross31]

If we reset the leaderboard every patch (i.e. around every 3 months), why even have "alltime" records?

[DieToPlay]

3 hours ago, Metagross31 said:

If we reset the leaderboard every patch (i.e. around every 3 months), why even have "alltime" records?

If the patch contains a nerf that makes it impossible to compete for the all-time, it's the only reasonable thing to do.
Why would you not reset a time which literally can't be beaten due to card changes.
For example, if AoC gets nerfed, you would have to reset the convoy time since it would be literally impossible to try and compete for that specific time.

At the moment, the most problematic map is probably Slave Master, but I would argue that resetting the rPvE would also make quite a bit of sense, since going SoW with double shadow orb is very standard and now after the change it's impossible.
Volin stated that it doesn't affect the current rPvE records, yet I'm not convinced and would prefer if his team could actually beat their own time in both of the difficulties to confirm the statements.

[Laertes]

I had a question about this. Rather than make my own thread I will ask it here, since it seems relevant. I hope that is okay!

Are the all time records considered attainable on current patch in any case? I had just assumed some of the All time records were on previous patches, with nightguard strategies that no longer exist (for example). 

My questions are: 
1) have the leaderboards been reset, and when, and is it map specific or global 
2) will they be reset, and if so are there specific criteria 
3) are current records either created on current patch or considered attainable on current patch

Hopefully it's not a violation of a norm or rule to ask this question some weeks after the last post here. I'm not too familiar with forums of this kind. 

[Kapo]

1 hour ago, Laertes said:

My questions are: 
1) have the leaderboards been reset, and when, and is it map specific or global 
2) will they be reset, and if so are there specific criteria 
3) are current records either created on current patch or considered attainable on current patch

On the first question, I can help. There was a reset with the same patch that changed Nightguard. 

[RadicalX]

On 6/13/2023 at 3:20 PM, Laertes said:

My questions are: 
1) have the leaderboards been reset, and when, and is it map specific or global 
2) will they be reset, and if so are there specific criteria 
3) are current records either created on current patch or considered attainable on current patch

1) There was a global reset for speedrun times in September 2022. There are forum posts in the PvE section featuring records before and after the reset. You can also find the times from 2013.

2) The main reason for a full ladder reset would be drastic changes to the meta and a fundamental shift in strategy on a global scale. In September 2022 Decomposer, Batariel and Nightguard all received major nerfs. This changes the strategic approach on at least 10 campaign maps (probably more, I only count the strategies I know for sure), with every rPvE run also being strongly affected.

To give an example: Prior to September 2022, rPvE 10 4p speedruns were played with 2-3 carries (depends on pathing) on Batariel decks, with the remaining players sacrificing their energy pool into decmposers after the early game. After the changes this pattern has changed to featuring different viable decks depending on a players energy level. Bloodhorn is the go-to deck, but Ember and various dps spell support decks that push a single Batariel player are viable alternatives depending on map conditions. 

The last patch removed the possibility for the SoW player to start with double shadow, which did enable a more carry oriented late game role due to access to Ressource Booster. This was not always the optimal play as you trade this for a slower SoW timing slightly weakening the remaining players. The other players are entirely unaffected from this change, the SoW player is losing one scaling option in the opening while still having access to multiple meta tools later on. This is not fundamentally changing the way the game is played here. Same can be said about BG, which delays certain spawnpoints by a few seconds, but every other playpattern stays identical.

3) Generally, yes. With the exception of Slavemaster (looter vs Twilight Emitter was removed two patches ago -> requires a new strategy) any record post ladder reset should be achievable. Overall it is very difficult to gauge the true impact on all time records per patch as every update features numerous card changes (including mostly buffs and QoL adjustments), player skill and activity varies, cumulative knowledge aquistions have a major impact on map completion times and there is just a general lack of data to make more precise assessments. So unless there will be a major meta update changing strategies entirely, we will not do global resets based on assumptions about theoretical best cleartimes. 

[Laertes]

Amazing answers, thank you! This is motivating for me to try to learn some maps better. many of the all time records are hard to imagine how they are possible! 

One of the coolest things about this game is seeing some interesting trick to make a very difficult problem manageable efficiently. 

It's a strength of Battleforge that they made A-moving fairly sub-optimal in most maps, so you're encouraged to think of interesting cards/strategies. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Laertes