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Issues with permanent global buffs like Incredible Mo and Wheel of Gifts


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The Incredible Mo - The Insidious Mo

Mindcontrolled units do not lose the debuff applied. Mindonctrolled units are not "hostile".

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In PvP the global buff apears for the enemy player but with no effect. Not sure if global effects are always displayed for all teams in PvP, either way the description is misleading or wrong, depending on how you interpret the buff. 

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  • 1 month later...

When own unit have the benevolent mo buff, if being debuffed by abilities like Disenchant, then after the effect wear off the benevolent mo buff won't ever apply again on that unit. and this is creating a huge problem for rang units in places like random pve lost souls or even twillight. this need to be fixed. i have taken few screen shots.

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Wheel of Gifts have the exact same problem as well.

 

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Was already mentioned a couple of times.

Just going by basic IT logic: It was never implemented this way, that's why it's not a glitch per se.
Regarding the disenchant, it wouldn't make much sense if the buffs renewed themselves, since it would make disenchant less powerful.

Second Chance on the other hand is a so-so... Do units repspawning with this spell be counted as new spawns or the unit being "brought back" without ever leaving the game?
I'd assume that they also lose every other buff/debuff which makes it logical, that they don't keep wheel/mo.

If we go with the basic assumption, that those buffs are a one-time only thing and simply don't expire by themself, the current way is correct.

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I guarantee you this is a bug that is not intended. simply because this problem is very old, and I remember very clearly that EA did fix it somewhere in 2010 after the release of lost souls. afterward the problem kept showing up again and again with each patch, and EA did fix it over and over again. and I'm sure there are other players who can remember this.

also if you disenchant a unit who is buffed by lets say forest elder (Flower Power). after the disenchant effect wears off the buff from forest elder or any other unit for that matter will reapply again. for some of these buffs you will have to go out of the unit rang and in again for it to reapply (which is also something that need to be fixed) but still it reapply. the same should be for buffs from buildings like wheels and Mo. these buffs are meant to be effective until the building is destroyed. disenchant is meant to remove the buff from the unit for a time duration and not permanently. this is why it is a T2 spell that require 1 fire orb only, cost 80 power, last for 15 seconds and is reusable every 20 seconds.

the problem here isn't really disenchant, but the buildings themselves. they should act like other units and reapply the buff once disenchant effect wears off.

Edited by Makaveli2989
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Can't find anything about that in the patch notes.

Someone provided the rang from 2009-12 but it's highly cluttered.

Like I said, depending on the standpoint it's not a bug at all.
Disenchant removes buffs period. After that it can also add a timeframe, where a unit can't be rebuffed.
It doesn't remove buffs with the pretext of them reappearing after Disenchants effect ends. If the buff doesn't have the incentive to be reapplied, then it won't

How the permanent buffs react to that is a question of interpretation.
Not saying, that you're ultimately wrong here, just saying that it not working might not be a bug. Doesn't matter if you like it or not.

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  • 3 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Vultagx said:

Today I saw the same at different units, that´s true.

But is this a bug or just a feature or the lost souls?

It's a feature. The lost dancers take any buffs off of units they hit. Now the good thing is: they can't hit air units. So at least those will profit from the wheel's buffs throughout the whole game.

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24 minutes ago, Vultagx said:

But the feature should be the following:

After the debuff from lost dancer the troops will lost the buff, after the debuff is deactivated the wheel of gift buff should be activated again. you are not able to repeat the wheel buff.

Yes Wheel of Gifts should reaply and it's a known bug. There are already a couple of bugreports on this.

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9 hours ago, Chibiterasu said:

Are there any global buffs similar to wheel of gifts that reapply like this? If so, it should be possible to fix this.

Making WoG Effects auras with lets say 500m range should do the trick just fine.

Same goes for Incredible Mo. 

Edited by Mynoduesp
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1 hour ago, Mynoduesp said:

Making WoG Effects auras with lets say 500m range should do the trick just fine.

Same goes for Incredible Mo. 

Yeah, I already thought about that as well and I'm pretty sure it would work. But I didn't want to mention it because I don't know how "hacky" this solution would be. In the worst case, there could be some performance problems with such an huge aura.

So I would prefer another way if possible.

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9 hours ago, Chibiterasu said:

Yeah, I already thought about that as well and I'm pretty sure it would work. But I didn't want to mention it because I don't know how "hacky" this solution would be. In the worst case, there could be some performance problems with such an huge aura.

So I would prefer another way if possible.

If you were to apply a buff with duration and reapply it each ~1 second. You'll most likely end up with bigger performance issues. 

But if you want to try it, a sceleton ability would be the global regen buff of fountain of rebirth. 

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Fountain of rebirth is a channel ability but even if I add that to wheels, it doesn't refresh after the dancers debuff.

What's worse, even if I let the buff reapply every second, it doesn't work as intendet. Instead of reapplying the buff after the dancers debuff, it will reapply the buff during the debuff. Lost dancer's attack doesn't seem to prevent the effects of wheel and incredible mo, it only removes them. So that doesn't work either.

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Would it be possible to change the lost dancer debuff effect into a temporary disable instead? There are a bunch of similar on attack effects for ranged/melee attacks and ability denial. E.g. Skycatcher, Lost Dragon, Twilight Whisperer, etc.

Would it be possible to change these effects in a way to make them applicable to buffs as well. That would obviously also effect other buffs (Motivate/Life Weaving/Unholy Power/Unholy Hero/Girl Power/Unity just to name a few) and therefor be a nerf to LS albeit probably not too influential besides Mo/WoG as it will only effect cleanup of camps, not so much the main clear. Considering Lost Souls has a very clear difficulty spike to all other factions, I think this would be at most a minor nerf to the faction(on top of what is actually trying to be done here already).

Edited by Treim
Mynoduesp likes this
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  • 4 weeks later...

There is currently a bug where if you deploy the Incredible Mo (select the Insidious Mo Aura) and after that you use Mind Control on an enemy unit, the converted unit will maintain the debuff (Insidious Mo Aura) even though it became your unit.

The weird thing is that in the Forge this does not happen, only in maps.

Loriens likes this
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  • Zyna changed the title to Issues with permanent global buffs like Incredible Mo and Wheel of Gifts

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