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Proposal: Rewards


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In that case you should be able to get gold from PvE and PvP. This way you can always upgrade your cards, whether you play more PvP or more PvE.

Is PvP not that you get matched against someone with the same deck level? or was it the same PvP rank?

Deck level is not taken into account when looking for an opponent. @Nachtalb did a good job explaining the system behind it: http://forum.bfreborn.com/index.php?/topic/1720-smurf-accounts-in-bf/&do=findComment&comment=35935 

The team is indeed planning on removing the token system and making gold the new currency used to upgrade your cards. As far as I know, you already received gold for completing maps, but the rewards given for playing rPvE will (should) most likely be changed from tokens to gold, as tokens will become useless.

Edited by Ladadoos
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WARNING: THIS THREAD MIGHT CONTAIN OUTDATED INFORMATION Greeting, Skylords! It's been long since a solid update, and it has come to my attention that there are tonnes of threads that still i

Then the new players will stay, and old one will quit. I wonder which side has the most members

In that case you should be able to get gold from PvE and PvP. This way you can always upgrade your cards, whether you play more PvP or more PvE.

Is PvP not that you get matched against someone with the same deck level? or was it the same PvP rank?

EDIT : Didn't update thread for 30 minutes, got late ninja'd :kappa: 

Edited by veryhasted
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First of all, welcome to the forums! :)

There's no way they can make BFP purchasable as they cannot make any profit or sell in-game things for cash as they do not own it.

I totally agree that PvP should gain somewhat the same amount of rewards, I think most people want it this way. I'm not sure what people have came together about as I've already speed read it all through. 

I find that R/UR cards should be harder to upgrade though as these should be more "end-game" content for one. This would make it so that everyone can't achieve the top notch deck in a very short period of time but you can still manage in PvP :)

Honestly they can do whatever they want with the game.  They're already breaking the law by providing copyrighted content for free without permission from the copyright holder.  Of course, if they were to sell in-game content for profit EA would shut them down immediately; so this is all about doing things in a way that will make EA the least likely to C&D or sue.  Selling BFP actually wouldn't be a huge problem if they are planning on making a non-profit organization or LLC (which they are), because then there would be detailed and reliable accounting which would prove that the sales are not for profit, but only for server maintenance and charity.

As for rarer card upgrades costing more gold, I guess it's fine as long as the gold cost stays roughly proportional to the BFP cost of the card.  In the end, all I want is for gold to not be a bottleneck for a deck—I don't want to have to go out of my way to farm it, I should have enough to upgrade my cards just by playing normally.

Edited by synthc
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I should have enough to upgrade my cards just by playing normally.

I do agree on this partially. I think you have enough for upgrading Common and Uncommon cards but that you should need a little more effort to upgrade Rare and Ultra-rare cards :)

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I do agree on this partially. I think you have enough for upgrading Common and Uncommon cards but that you should need a little more effort to upgrade Rare and Ultra-rare cards :)

I agree with this one, you shouldn't be able to instantly upgrade all your cards. I think that would ruin the 'collection' part. It's not only to collect all the cards, it is also to collect all the upgrades.

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I agree with this one, you shouldn't be able to instantly upgrade all your cards. I think that would ruin the 'collection' part. It's not only to collect all the cards, it is also to collect all the upgrades.

Exactly! I think that Common and (a few) Uncommon cards should be able to get upgraded rather quick the rest should make you feel like you're doing progress but it's only optional not a neccessarity to be able to play the game to it's fullest.

 

* "a few" = A couple of cards should be able to be upgraded but you shouldn't be able to upgrade every uncommon card that you have.

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I agree with this one, you shouldn't be able to instantly upgrade all your cards. I think that would ruin the 'collection' part. It's not only to collect all the cards, it is also to collect all the upgrades.

The problem is that you're not collecting upgrades if you only play PvP (some of us just don't enjoy PvE); you're earning gold.  There's a big difference between actually getting new cards and upgrading existing ones—the former is an exciting experience that changes how you can play, while the latter is nothing more than grinding if implemented in the way you guys are suggesting.  Sure, some unit gain new abilities when upgraded, but that's a relatively minor change in most cases.

I fully understand the concepts behind this sort of player progression, but I really strongly think that it shouldn't play any significant role in determining how powerful the units are in an RTS.  This was one of the game's fundamental flaws IMO, and one of the reasons why it never had a big player base.  I think that player progression should never directly effect how strong your units are compared to another player's; personally I would much rather we just do away with the upgrade system altogether (as has already been suggested on these forums), but I think that providing enough gold to upgrade all cards as soon as you get them is a good compromise for completionists.

If you look at other F2P games like LoL, you will notice that they don't include anything in the player progression that significantly affects your champion's overall power level (maybe with the exception of not having some essential summoner spells, but you can get those really quickly through normal play).  There are runes, but they have a pretty minor effect overall.  The big aspect of progression is earning IP with which to buy new champions (this is equivalent to BFP for new cards in BF).  In Battleforge, however, a highly skilled U0 player will get slaughtered by an average U3 player (I've tested this before), because the stat and ability differences are just massive.  This is not at all how it should be.

From a PvP perspective, nobody wants to have to farm in order to have a competitive deck, and being forced to do so can really ruin the experience—especially considering the fact that we've already spent countless hours grinding upgrades only to lose it have and have to do it all over again.

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The problem is that you're not collecting upgrades if you only play PvP (some of us just don't enjoy PvE); you're earning gold.  There's a big difference between actually getting new cards and upgrading existing ones—the former is an exciting experience that changes how you can play, while the latter is nothing more than grinding if implemented in the way you guys are suggesting.  Sure, some unit gain new abilities when upgraded, but that's a relatively minor change in most cases.

I fully understand the concepts behind this sort of player progression, but I really strongly think that it shouldn't play any significant role in determining how powerful the units are in an RTS.  This was one of the game's fundamental flaws IMO, and one of the reasons why it never had a big player base.  I think that player progression should never directly effect how strong your units are compared to another player's; personally I would much rather we just do away with the upgrade system altogether (as has already been suggested on these forums), but I think that providing enough gold to upgrade all cards as soon as you get them is a good compromise for completionists.

If you look at other F2P games like LoL, you will notice that they don't include anything in the player progression that significantly affects your champion's overall power level (maybe with the exception of not having some essential summoner spells, but you can get those really quickly through normal play).  There are runes, but they have a pretty minor effect overall.  The big aspect of progression is earning IP with which to buy new champions (this is equivalent to BFP for new cards in BF).  In Battleforge, however, a highly skilled U0 player will get slaughtered by an average U3 player (I've tested this before), because the stat and ability differences are just massive.  This is not at all how it should be.

From a PvP perspective, nobody wants to have to farm in order to have a competitive deck, and being forced to do so can really ruin the experience—especially considering the fact that we've already spent countless hours grinding upgrades only to lose it have and have to do it all over again.

First of all, lets not compare BF and LoL again, it are totally different games. And if you even compare them, do it good: In LoL you have summoners, masteries and runes, wich WILL affect your game a lot! If you compare a Gold player without runes/masteries with a Silver player with runes/masteries the silver guy will definitely win, like the good U0 vs the less good U3 in BF.

Why would you do this? Than the whole upgrading system is useless...

What you say here is just: lets give everybody a full PvP deck right when they sign up. Because even with a deck full of commons and uncommons you can easily play pretty good.

I agree with the fact that you should be able to earn upgrades by playing PvP, but this should be less fast/efficient than upgrades from PvE in my opinion. 

I like colours xD

 

Edited by SilenceKiller99
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First of all, lets not compare BF and LoL again, it are totally different games. And if you even compare them, do it good: In LoL you have summoners, masteries and runes, wich WILL affect your game a lot! If you compare a Gold player without runes/masteries with a Silver player with runes/masteries the silver guy will definitely win, like the good U0 vs the less good U3 in BF.

In BF having no upgrades is completely crippling.  In LoL I think a gold player without runes/masteries would win almost 50% of the time against a silver player with them, but of course we're both just guessing—my point is that in LoL runes and masteries have a relatively minor affect on overall performance.

Why would you do this? Than the whole upgrading system is useless...

Yeah, I mis-wrote there.  What I meant to say was "I think you should have enough gold to upgrade all cards you would use in a single deck".  I don't think you should be able to upgrade every card you get in a booster pack right away; but if you're picking individual cards to buy from the AH or just using the few useful new ones you get from boosters, you should be able to instantly upgrade those cards.

What you say here is just: lets give everybody a full PvP deck right when they sign up. Because even with a deck full of commons and uncommons you can easily play pretty good.

Everyone will pretty much have a full deck within a few days anyway (because they will have enough commons/uncommons).  The difference is that the ones who grind for gold will be at a significant advantage because their cards are upgraded.  This is a terrible thing for an RTS.

I agree with the fact that you should be able to earn upgrades by playing PvP, but this should be less fast/efficient than upgrades from PvE in my opinion. 

Why?  Why should PvE players get more upgrades than PvP players?

Edited by synthc
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In BF having no upgrades is completely crippling.  In LoL I think a gold player without runes/masteries would win almost 50% of the time against a silver player with them, but of course we're both just guessing—my point is that in LoL runes and masteries have a relatively minor affect on overall performance.

Yeah, I mis-wrote there.  What I meant to say was "I think you should have enough gold to upgrade all cards you would use in a single deck".  I don't think you should be able to upgrade every card you get in a booster pack right away; but if you're picking individual cards to buy from the AH or just using the few useful new ones you get from boosters, you should be able to instantly upgrade those cards.

Everyone will pretty much have a full deck within a few days anyway (because they will have enough commons/uncommons).  The difference is that the ones who grind for gold will be at a significant advantage because their cards are upgraded.  This is a terrible thing for an RTS.

Why?  Why should PvE players get more upgrades than PvP players?

This is all your opinion, and I respect that. Even Though I do not agree. I think the 'grind system' works fine, maybe they can reduce the grinding time a bit, but you should not get upgrades for almost free, as you are saying. A good solution would be: getting the upgrades via PvP, this will make it fun for everybody (both PvE fans and PvP fans). Still my opinion is that you would have to 'grind PvP matches' for those upgrades in that case. Not that you get all the upgrades in a few days/weeks (depends on how much you play). 

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Getting the same amount of upgrades from PvE and PvP is a big yes from me, but getting all the upgrades for your first deck at the start is a big no as a huge part of the progression in this game is skipped then. Some people do not like the small amounts of grinding this would need as we're talking about but we can't please everyone, can we?

 

In BF having no upgrades is completely crippling.  In LoL I think a gold player without runes/masteries would win almost 50% of the time against a silver player with them, but of course we're both just guessing—my point is that in LoL runes and masteries have a relatively minor affect on overall performance.

This is completely not true, I know for a fact as I've tried it that a Average Platinum player without runes/masteries would go even with a high silver with maxed out runes/masteries, that says a lot about performance from "upgrades" and you need to grind that IP to get the runes and LoL still has 67 million people playing every month which should say something about the Performance/Grind thing.

Edited by veryhasted
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Even with a bit of grinding which I adres is not bad at all because the game is fun, the rewards always outweigh the rewards of the original game because of the bfp rewards

Rewarding player for grinding isnt a bad thing I think, playing more equals more rewards, Just like Los and everybody other mmo

Edited by ThaaLegend
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I agree with that, as I said earlier, grind is not bad. It could be lowered a bit, but I don't even think that is needed.

Are you suggesting that we get the same, nearly-nonexistent amount of gold from PvP as in the original BF?  Grinding was the worst part of the game by far in the original game.  If the gold income from PvP isn't massively increased I won't be coming back.  I loved this game and IMO it's the best multiplayer game ever made despite it's flaws, but I just don't have the time or the patience for all that BS grinding.

Edited by synthc
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Grinding was indeed a big issue for people who didn't spend any money on the game. And thats why the old BF had low player base.

I playd the old BF for a few months, and only managed to get 2 UR card maybe.. ofc, not upgraded. And yes i spent some money on the game. I couldn't even finish my deck at the end, and not all my cards were fully upgraded. Then decided to take a break because that grinding felt really bad. After few months wanted to go back to BF and realized EA closed it..

My brother played the game for a longer period, but he didn't spend any money on it. And he had worse deck than me at the end.

Grinding element in a RTS game is really bad. But well, that was EA's moneymilking grindfest system.

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Grinding element in a RTS game is really bad. But well, that was EA's moneymilking grindfest system.

Exactly this.  And this is what we have the opportunity to avoid now that the game is no longer pay to win.

EA designed this system to be absurdly grindy in order to milk as much money out of the game as possible.  It is NOT necessary to keep all the grinding for player progression and a lot players, if not most players, do NOT enjoy it.  Earning daily BFP is plenty as far as progressing the player experience goes.  Card upgrades should be more a completionist goal (to upgrade everything), or could honestly just be removed entirely.

 

Edited by synthc
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Are you suggesting that we get the same, nearly-nonexistent amount of gold from PvP as in the original BF?  Grinding was the worst part of the game by far in the original game.  If the gold income from PvP isn't massively increased I won't be coming back.  I loved this game and IMO it's the best multiplayer game ever made despite it's flaws, but I just don't have the time or the patience for all that BS grinding.

He probably means that the amount of grind that should be required should be lowed, I think that you should be able to get a full deck quite quick (A couple of days) of normal playing (Playing the campaign for a bit and some PvP) but for getting more than just your "main" deck maxed out there should be a little more grinding involved as you already have a fully functional deck then ;)

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He probably means that the amount of grind that should be required should be lowed, I think that you should be able to get a full deck quite quick (A couple of days) of normal playing (Playing the campaign for a bit and some PvP) but for getting more than just your "main" deck maxed out there should be a little more grinding involved as you already have a fully functional deck then ;)

This would definitely be reasonable, and is pretty much exactly what I'm asking for.  You can get a fully upgraded deck within maybe 20-30 hours of play.  Of course you won't have all the R/UR's you want by that time, but you will at least have a fully upgraded deck of commons and uncommons and maybe 1 or 2 rares—and you will be saving up enough gold by playing that you will be able to upgrade your new R/UR's by the time you have enough BFP to buy them.

This way PvP players can actually have fun while earning gold for new decks because they can play a fully functional PvP deck without too much unfairness (there will still be luck involved in opening boosters, but hopefully the AH prices will level out quickly enough on release that you can buy all the cards you need from there).

I have no problems with player progression and I realize its value, but I'm very strongly opposed to players have to choose between grinding and being at a disadvantage.

In the original Battleforge it took literally hundreds of hours of grinding PvE to get a fully upgraded deck, which was absolutely awful.

Edited by synthc
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This would definitely be reasonable, and is pretty much exactly what I'm asking for.  You can get a fully upgraded deck within maybe 20-30 hours of play.  Of course you won't have all the R/UR's you want by that time, but you will at least have a fully upgraded deck of commons and uncommons and maybe 1 or 2 rares—and you will be saving up enough gold by playing that you will be able to upgrade your new R/UR's by the time you have enough BFP to buy them.

This way PvP players can actually have fun while earning gold for new decks because they can play a fully functional PvP deck without too much unfairness (there will still be luck involved in opening boosters, but hopefully the AH prices will level out quickly enough on release that you can buy all the cards you need from there).

I have no problems with player progression and I realize its value, but I'm very strongly opposed to players have to choose between grinding and being at a disadvantage.

In the original Battleforge it took literally hundreds of hours of grinding PvE to get a fully upgraded deck, which was absolutely awful.

I totally agree, in the old Battleforge i spend almost 200 hours just to have my deck upgraded, i'm not sure i can do it again

I think we all have the same thoughts about this. We want ~ 20 cards to be kind of quick to upgrade (maybe we want some limit that after a "x" amount it becomes harder to upgrade more cards) in a couple of days maybe. So in about 10-20 hours(?) you should be able to have ONE fully upgraded deck. This does not mean you should be able to have two fully upgraded decks in 20-40 hours as if you want to become a higher level player you might need more deck and then you should also have put some time into the game ;)  

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I think we all have the same thoughts about this. We want ~ 20 cards to be kind of quick to upgrade (maybe we want some limit that after a "x" amount it becomes harder to upgrade more cards) in a couple of days maybe. So in about 10-20 hours(?) you should be able to have ONE fully upgraded deck. This does not mean you should be able to have two fully upgraded decks in 20-40 hours as if you want to become a higher level player you might need more deck and then you should also have put some time into the game ;)  

This is an interesting idea.  Make upgrades cost more after fully upgrading your first 20 cards, then 40, and 60, and etc.  This way you could get one deck upgraded quickly but would have to spend more time for each additional deck.  It could also be a non-linear curve so that you receive bigger and bigger penalties for each 20 cards you upgrade (making it hard to upgrade every card).

This would probably be pretty hard to implement though.

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  • 3 weeks later...

First of all I think the proposal from xlink is pretty damn good , if you behold the fact that we have fair bonuses which will give players good opportunities to be able collecting bfp.

The system have to be balanced for each different type of gamers, such as ppl who have a job and can just barely collect the rewards, but also for competetive players.

But in my opinion players who plays literally 99% more then others dont necessarily needs more rewards, remember that this players are more capable of attempting a tournament to collect additional rewards.

As for a friend bonus you can add a system that will prevents players from adding just ppl in the queue to abuse the system, there should be a thing like if you have this friend one week on your list, you're getting that boost in case you play with him, that would result an not abusive system.

 

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  • Zyna changed the title to Proposal: Rewards
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