Cocofang

I am against committing to balance changes before a full release and all wipes/resets being done. You would be allocating your time and resources to this instead of actually getting the whole thing done. Even one hour of dev time spent on balance instead of release is a setback in my book.
I don't really care where dev time is spent after the game is launched and everyone gets to keep their progress. But release should be the absolute top priority right now. And diversion should be avoided.
As for balance changes overall: I am for separating PvP and PvE balance wise. These two modes are played so fundamentally different, they shouldn't be affecting each other. Basically, if balance changes are necessary in either PvP or PvE, ideally there should be a respective PvP and/or PvE version of a card that is appropriately adjusted. I assume the majority of balance changes would be PvP centered anyway. So I would hate to see PvE decks getting messed with because a card needs PvP changes. And vice versa ofc.
12p maps were fucking awful in the original Battle Forge. Too many disconnects or player failures.
Would it be possible to "split" the 12p maps though? I don't know the name right now but one of them is just the same map three times. Would it be possible to just make it a 4p map by removing the 12p intersections?
As for the other one that is three intertwined maps, would it be possible to split that one into three 4p maps and just automate the events that depend on the (now gone) other maps? Basically hard-scripting them so people can just play one map.

Amii and Enlighten are examples for rule-bending cards. It's what they are supposed to do. You can of course disagree with the design but they are still working as intended.
Also, straining the games mechanics is what speedrunning is literally all about. Learning patterns, exploiting them, manipulating them. Finding and min-maxing the most optimal solution that trumps all others. That is an integral part of the process that you are arguing against for nothing but the pipe dream of a "balanced" game operating on absolute commandments.
As a side-point; I'd argue that mono-decks are suboptimal because of the fact that pure T4 is so lacking that mixing it up will almost always be straight up better. Are there even any mono-T4s in the game worth having without the support of differently colored cards? Green Forest Elder maybe but that's because Nature itself is such a powerful all-rounder.

The first issue you describe is only applicable in custom maps, no? Every map that is inherent to the game is either strictly PvE or PvP, never both. And if these custom maps are different, you could let people decide whether PvP or PvE rules apply to them. Basically a tag system. And NPCs on maps are subjected to the overarching rules. If it's a PvE tagged map, they work under PvE rules (in that case, every scenario and rPvE map would be tagged as "PvE"). If it's PvP tagged, they use PvP rules. Again, whether it is even possible from a technical standpoint is a different topic, but purely conceptually speaking it seems simple. Reality might differ, because of coding shenanigans but nobody knows that yet.
I'm gonna be a real cheeky brat and turn what you said before around on you, don't let it sound too mean in your head. It's teasing a bit but still true
You don't really have anything else to do right now with the game because you don't get reports for issues you can fix, right? So why not look into the possibility of making separately balanced cards for PvE and PvP? Might as well. Just to check if it's possible to split them like that. Might be interesting. Might be a place to get a deeper understanding on how the game works. In my opinion that would definitely be a project worth spending time on instead of waiting for a report to pop up.
Development seems to be in a very tough spot right now. Can't keep improving servers because of lack of reports. Can't release because of lack of polish. Players are less engaged because everything will be wiped. Players expect a reasonably well running game that is "fully released". Caught between a rock and a hard place. Gotta find some ways to get people reporting and make it as quick and easy as possible.

I disagree. It's not a bug it is a logical consequences of introducing a card that lets you build your own orb. It is a legit orb, it should count as a legit orb for all intents and purposes. It is the expected behavior. I am telling you that if you change it so the amii orb doesn't count on that map anymore you would get people reporting THAT as a bug. Because it would make no sense. So what, the amii orb works consistently exactly the way you expect it to work EXCEPT for that one map? That's arbitrary and non-transparent balancing.
Speedrunning is always about min-maxing and it comes down to the most optimal cards used in the most optimal times.
You could make the same argument for Enlighten, a card that was in the game since the beginning. It allowed you to skip LOADS of hurdles on multiple maps.
It's just how these cards work. How they are supposed to work. How they are expected to work.
I mean, just conceptually, it's not hard to come up with a solution. The real question would be on the technical side.
So just as a concept, first you have to decide which modes is the base one, PvE or PvP. Let's take PvE. So. Every card exists first and foremost in it's PvE form. That's how you get it from the booster. That's how it shows up in your collection by default. That's how it looks by default.
When creating a deck you can check a "PvP" box. There is also such a "Show PvP versions" box for your collection. If checked you now see all your cards as per usual but the ones that have PvP specific adjustments have a little * at the end of the name. Every change that was made to them is highlighted with a different text color so you can immediately tell which part is different. If possible you could maybe even switch back to the regular "PvE" version by mousing over a card and pressing Alt. So by spamming Alt you could directly compare the two version.
This does introduce an additional burden of knowledge if you want to play both modes. However I would argue the benefits of such an approach would outweigh that. You could theoretically make every card interesting for both PvE and PvP, something that is definitely not the case right now. You would also be very flexible with balancing. PvE and PvP have vastly different needs. You could cater to both of them without affecting the other mode. You would never run into a scenario where you risk making a card OP or trash in one mode by adjusting them with the other one in mind. You would also never create conflict between the PvE and PvP parts of the community that goes like "WOW! My card is now trash because it got changed for that other mode that I don't care about!" or "Playing my mode is boring now because that card that got changed for that other mode that I don't care about made it so OP for mine that you almost have to use it!".
So, if it is possible from a technical standpoint, balancing PvE and PvP separately would have the benefits of:
flexibility in catering to the specific needs of both modes having every card be usable and interesting in both modes not affecting one mode when balancing a card for the other keeping the dedicated communities out of each others hair when cards get balanced for them "People are disagreeing! Shut it down! Why won't anyone shut it dooooooown?!?"
What else is there to discuss here? If anything the answer if balance changes should be made before the full release was already set beforehand. According to Kubik they have literally nothing else to do right now because they are not getting enough issue reports from the community and development is almost at a stand still. So apparently there is no downsides to investing resources into balance changes right now.
What kind of participation percentage were you hoping for?

Oh, my. Months later I come back to see how everything is going and find a freshly created topic proving my post back from april right. Or at least it's still an ongoing problem, unsurprisingly.
Especially the part about the voting system. Maybe it's time to revisit that. There isn't anything good coming from people throwing up and downvotes around. It just snowballs both ways, if you have a lot of +, you will get more + more easily. If you have -, you will be branded and gather more - more easily. And it is discouraging if one of your first posts gets downvoted and your account is suddenly perceived as in bad standing. And as I said it is very hard climbing back out of a deficit, might as well make a new account or leave altogether.
A voting system like that does not make for a very welcoming community. It only reinforces crowd and mob mentality. If you really want one then I would suggest these adjustments: Make it anonymous in any case. Nobody needs to know who agreed or disagreed with them by default. And make it so nobody can get lower than 0 points, even if he gathered mostly negative votes. You could make it so negative votes are only counted invisibly in the background. Or just make them not count at all. Which would lead to an inflation of positive points but then again, who the hell cares? But it could also lead to people with no or little points not being taken seriously. Or just get rid of the counter that keeps track of the overall standing so that people can still react to individual posts but that's as far as it goes.
Personally, I think the best approach would be making it anonymous and getting rid of the overall vote-counter so accounts don't get publicly branded. I don't see this voting system helping anyone right now. If it can't be easily adjusted then maybe just ditch it. It's not like negative votes get rid of people that actually only want to insult. This has to be handled by moderators with notices like "You are free to voice your opinions, even if they are not favorable towards us or this project. You are free to criticize and present why you are unhappy or frustrated. But within reason. Personal insults and attempting to foster hostility are not helping. Stay polite. We realize this is a polarizing situation for a lot of people but name-calling or trying to stir things up with an angry mob of sorts (both ways) is not something we want to see and repeated offenses will result in a ban." Of course people that support this whole thing but go too far and try to drive out anyone who is critical have to be handled the exact same way. This is a forum FOR the project, not AGAINST it, sure. But those that are hostile towards any form of open dissatisfaction are just as much part of the problem.
 
Also, don't forget that the people complaining and venting their frustration are probably just people that were once hyped but are now disappointed. That's what hype-culture does to people. It is polarizing and lets people lash out in extremes both ways.

I am fine with no dates and I know that delays happen. Whatever happens happens, the only stake I have in this is that I would like the opportunity to play BattleForge again.
But honestly, I am getting more worried about the general atmosphere and by the fact that some devs themselves can't keep their hype in check. What's with the
in the update? Can you be more polarizing? I understand that there is passion behind the project but it just goes off the far end. People take this whole thing way too personal. And inflammatory swipes like this aren't helping anyone. Neither do I think the heartfelt apologies are having the intended effect. I would mainly just aim for a lower profile, keep it interactive and transparent but don't go overboard either way.
What kind of community do you want to foster? I see it steering towards "Us VS Them". Just a hostile environment with angry mobs that attack anyone that dares voice doubts. Do not get your ego involved. Technical issues can be resolves easier than a broken community. And let's not forget that a BIG focus should be on a welcoming and friendly community as it will most likely be relatively small and needs every active member it can get.
On a related note, the up- and down-vote system does not help it either. It discourages voicing controversial statements because of the possible retribution of red pixels and encourages just preaching with the choir creating an echo-chamber and generally a more volatile environment for discussion. Especially since it is not anonymous. It also just brands people that may have had one post that others didn't like among other neutral ones to the point where creating a new account is easier than trying to get positive standing again.
Again, at this point I am less worried about the state of the game than the state of the community from top to bottom and where it could be headed.

I am fine with no dates and I know that delays happen. Whatever happens happens, the only stake I have in this is that I would like the opportunity to play BattleForge again.
But honestly, I am getting more worried about the general atmosphere and by the fact that some devs themselves can't keep their hype in check. What's with the
in the update? Can you be more polarizing? I understand that there is passion behind the project but it just goes off the far end. People take this whole thing way too personal. And inflammatory swipes like this aren't helping anyone. Neither do I think the heartfelt apologies are having the intended effect. I would mainly just aim for a lower profile, keep it interactive and transparent but don't go overboard either way.
What kind of community do you want to foster? I see it steering towards "Us VS Them". Just a hostile environment with angry mobs that attack anyone that dares voice doubts. Do not get your ego involved. Technical issues can be resolves easier than a broken community. And let's not forget that a BIG focus should be on a welcoming and friendly community as it will most likely be relatively small and needs every active member it can get.
On a related note, the up- and down-vote system does not help it either. It discourages voicing controversial statements because of the possible retribution of red pixels and encourages just preaching with the choir creating an echo-chamber and generally a more volatile environment for discussion. Especially since it is not anonymous. It also just brands people that may have had one post that others didn't like among other neutral ones to the point where creating a new account is easier than trying to get positive standing again.
Again, at this point I am less worried about the state of the game than the state of the community from top to bottom and where it could be headed.

I am fine with no dates and I know that delays happen. Whatever happens happens, the only stake I have in this is that I would like the opportunity to play BattleForge again.
But honestly, I am getting more worried about the general atmosphere and by the fact that some devs themselves can't keep their hype in check. What's with the
in the update? Can you be more polarizing? I understand that there is passion behind the project but it just goes off the far end. People take this whole thing way too personal. And inflammatory swipes like this aren't helping anyone. Neither do I think the heartfelt apologies are having the intended effect. I would mainly just aim for a lower profile, keep it interactive and transparent but don't go overboard either way.
What kind of community do you want to foster? I see it steering towards "Us VS Them". Just a hostile environment with angry mobs that attack anyone that dares voice doubts. Do not get your ego involved. Technical issues can be resolves easier than a broken community. And let's not forget that a BIG focus should be on a welcoming and friendly community as it will most likely be relatively small and needs every active member it can get.
On a related note, the up- and down-vote system does not help it either. It discourages voicing controversial statements because of the possible retribution of red pixels and encourages just preaching with the choir creating an echo-chamber and generally a more volatile environment for discussion. Especially since it is not anonymous. It also just brands people that may have had one post that others didn't like among other neutral ones to the point where creating a new account is easier than trying to get positive standing again.
Again, at this point I am less worried about the state of the game than the state of the community from top to bottom and where it could be headed.

I am fine with no dates and I know that delays happen. Whatever happens happens, the only stake I have in this is that I would like the opportunity to play BattleForge again.
But honestly, I am getting more worried about the general atmosphere and by the fact that some devs themselves can't keep their hype in check. What's with the
in the update? Can you be more polarizing? I understand that there is passion behind the project but it just goes off the far end. People take this whole thing way too personal. And inflammatory swipes like this aren't helping anyone. Neither do I think the heartfelt apologies are having the intended effect. I would mainly just aim for a lower profile, keep it interactive and transparent but don't go overboard either way.
What kind of community do you want to foster? I see it steering towards "Us VS Them". Just a hostile environment with angry mobs that attack anyone that dares voice doubts. Do not get your ego involved. Technical issues can be resolves easier than a broken community. And let's not forget that a BIG focus should be on a welcoming and friendly community as it will most likely be relatively small and needs every active member it can get.
On a related note, the up- and down-vote system does not help it either. It discourages voicing controversial statements because of the possible retribution of red pixels and encourages just preaching with the choir creating an echo-chamber and generally a more volatile environment for discussion. Especially since it is not anonymous. It also just brands people that may have had one post that others didn't like among other neutral ones to the point where creating a new account is easier than trying to get positive standing again.
Again, at this point I am less worried about the state of the game than the state of the community from top to bottom and where it could be headed.

I am fine with no dates and I know that delays happen. Whatever happens happens, the only stake I have in this is that I would like the opportunity to play BattleForge again.
But honestly, I am getting more worried about the general atmosphere and by the fact that some devs themselves can't keep their hype in check. What's with the
in the update? Can you be more polarizing? I understand that there is passion behind the project but it just goes off the far end. People take this whole thing way too personal. And inflammatory swipes like this aren't helping anyone. Neither do I think the heartfelt apologies are having the intended effect. I would mainly just aim for a lower profile, keep it interactive and transparent but don't go overboard either way.
What kind of community do you want to foster? I see it steering towards "Us VS Them". Just a hostile environment with angry mobs that attack anyone that dares voice doubts. Do not get your ego involved. Technical issues can be resolves easier than a broken community. And let's not forget that a BIG focus should be on a welcoming and friendly community as it will most likely be relatively small and needs every active member it can get.
On a related note, the up- and down-vote system does not help it either. It discourages voicing controversial statements because of the possible retribution of red pixels and encourages just preaching with the choir creating an echo-chamber and generally a more volatile environment for discussion. Especially since it is not anonymous. It also just brands people that may have had one post that others didn't like among other neutral ones to the point where creating a new account is easier than trying to get positive standing again.
Again, at this point I am less worried about the state of the game than the state of the community from top to bottom and where it could be headed.

Has anyone here actually ever considered that is the actual reason people are really bummed out?
People as a whole can't manage expectations already, so if you foster an environment where everyone is even more pumped up and then something happens to bring things back down to reality, the backlash will be all the bigger. Everyone who constantly explodes in excitement and is getting all fired up over something that doesn't even exist yet doesn't really have a right to criticize people that are disappointing when expectations are not met because they collectively created those unreasonable prospects in the first place.
The devs aren't innocent in that regard either. Of course they need people to get invested because they also want it to be a success and earn some money but it blew up into their faces recently. In a situation like this the divide in the community between the disappointed people and the ones still riding the wave will get apparent.
I just sit back here and whatever happens happens. I would love to play BattleForge again but if this entire project bombs, I'd still go "Oh, well. Would've been nice. Moving on."
People (both the "SO FKING DISAPPOINTED IN THE DEVS!" and the "SO FRIGGIN HYPED ABOUT THIS, GO DEVS!" ones) get emotionally and personally invested way too easily. Don't forget, a lot of the people now complaining were once just like the ones still celebrating.

Has anyone here actually ever considered that is the actual reason people are really bummed out?
People as a whole can't manage expectations already, so if you foster an environment where everyone is even more pumped up and then something happens to bring things back down to reality, the backlash will be all the bigger. Everyone who constantly explodes in excitement and is getting all fired up over something that doesn't even exist yet doesn't really have a right to criticize people that are disappointing when expectations are not met because they collectively created those unreasonable prospects in the first place.
The devs aren't innocent in that regard either. Of course they need people to get invested because they also want it to be a success and earn some money but it blew up into their faces recently. In a situation like this the divide in the community between the disappointed people and the ones still riding the wave will get apparent.
I just sit back here and whatever happens happens. I would love to play BattleForge again but if this entire project bombs, I'd still go "Oh, well. Would've been nice. Moving on."
People (both the "SO FKING DISAPPOINTED IN THE DEVS!" and the "SO FRIGGIN HYPED ABOUT THIS, GO DEVS!" ones) get emotionally and personally invested way too easily. Don't forget, a lot of the people now complaining were once just like the ones still celebrating.

Guys, you are real awesome
And i'd like to add tomething to people who don't know about programming or alike as far as i know you can compare estimating the project finish date to unloading a car
First you realize that it is not a small car
Then you realize that you don't have any instruments
Then realize that you have to do it underwater
In another country
And so on
And to all those crybabies .Just shut up .Guys are spending almost all their time working for something that doesn't give them any stable salary just be satisfied with the work they are already doing
and thank you for bringing back one of the greatest games ever seen

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.

Just wanted to zip in with a quick:

Take your time, if you can't hit the deadline you set yourself for open beta release, just take more time. The kids will manage. They will cry. They will lament their broken dreams and hopes. They will temporarily feel betrayed, dirty and used. But they will manage. They are strong souls. Godspeed.