Oops

I understand that this answer was referring to @Fimion's answer, but it seems the point I was formerly trying to make, got drowned a little in the discussion heat. Afterall, I can build my counter argument to this on a similarly illogical assumption - "I don't know why you make such a fuss about Amii Monument..you can like..just don't use it, you know?". Just doesn't make sense. And regarding this part - yes and no. The "Yes" part: Yes, there are definitelly more alarming issues that should be addressed first (see my previous answer), because some of the bugs are literally gamebreaking. Just take the following example of a Slave Master run for an idea: 1, A regular player pops an Amii Monument in his deck and plays it. By skipping T3, he is able, FOR EXAMPLE, to drop his time from 30 minutes to 24 (mind you, we are dealing with an average player, or players, here). Cool, he made it faster, saved some time, the card was utilized. 2, A dude that knows you can skip freeing prisoners in the top left corner, as the spawned Ravenheart doesn't attack them and gets stuck. Firstly, he summons a couple of wyrms and/or skycatchers and clears the entire right side, triggering Mo without even touching any of the prisoners on the left. Then he finishes the map by dragging Mo and the single camp of prisoners from the right side to the portal and voilà, he is done. Doing this exploit, you just jumped from 30 minutes, to like 11-12. And not only you don't have to defend crap in the south, as you have plenty of time to work with, you dont need your starting orbs anymore either, because you built your flying army already and there is no need to defend whatsoever. Oh, you also finished the map in ~1/3 of the average play time... So you tell me which is worse - being knowledgeable about an exploit practically guaranteeing top positions on monthly ladders, or a speedup card that's just a bit too popular, making your time faster. Remember, that over half of the maps have a similar BS method to follow. The "No" part: No, Amii Monument is indeed a card that is too popular, and a change is most definitely on the table and I agree fully that it needs to be nerfed. But as mentioned in a bunch of messages from multiple users before, its a purely PvE-based card that does NOT affect player-to-player gameplay, thus it is not breaking the gameplay, it just makes one of the players on the current map to skip T3 (remember that the proto argument for this change is to increase popularity of T3 cards). It is also ridiculous how the nerfing aspect in this particular use case is, simply put, a complete revocation of the utility that Amii Monument originally provided. If you have an issue with its immediate "power creep", hell, either make the orb ridiculously hungry for power (250 to build, 500 to activate without void refund, or something similar) or make it a timed building (like building it, and after 20 seconds automatically destroying it on a 3+ minute cooldown) or just blatantly pop a 5-minute cooldown on the card after it's built. Or something else entirely. But here it's a complete remodeling of what the card does (or provides). That's not a nerf, that's a new design of the card. ____________________________________ What would you say if a similar discussion were taken on a different card? Imagine if I had the balls to suggest that Mine is too OP and should be moved to T2, while increasing its cost. And I dare you to show me a single regular PvE deck that starts with fire T1 without a Mine in it. Outrage, right?

I agree with this statement, but - Curse Well was a direct problem before, as it affected gameplay in PvP, which included players and their mutual gameplay directly. But Amii Monument is nigh exclusive for PvE content only, hence not quite as relevant in discussion of how OP it potentially is (albeit being a little bit too popular) - more so if neutral and available for all color variations. Now, I also agree with this ideology, as it surely makes sense. However, let's be more pragmatic here - if we are truly eager to bring a normalizing aspect into the game, that would prevent players from cheating themselves through maps, instead of destructuring Amii as a Tier stepstone, it would be more fair to prevent abusement of exploits and bugs that exist in the game in the first place, LIKE nether warping through closed gates, like triggering map mechanics out of order or like ignoring 75% of the objectives due to a bug in spawned NPC behaviour (KotG cave block, Slave Master prisoner exploit, Matter Mastery interactions with specific map buildings, ...) and many more. If you want to be fair not only in gameplay, but in rankings too, you would have to ban atleast about 20–30 cards completely, as they somehow interact with a broken mechanic on a number of maps (thus making them an auto-include too for these maps), and erase most of said rankings after this change is employed, for you would still have a lingering issue of having players that actively exploit stuff to rank themselves high or finish the map ASAP against those that don't know how to do it or refusing to do it. Otherwise, a completely pointless debate, as this is trivially targeting a single card to abolish a widespread problem. TL;DR - despite Monument being an issue of jumping from T2 to T4 straight, it is by far not the most concerning problem in the live game currently when it comes to gameplay. Bonus Fun fact - Amii Monument is also bugged, as when you use it in T3 to get to T4, if any of your "standard" orbs gets destroyed, the price to rebuild it is 300, instead of 100 .

As much as I understand the Amii Monument change to omit cheating out T4 cards in map-phases where you shouldn't do so, the card is functionally ruined, as it's utility to "increase" the orb pool while staying "in-tier" is not that useful in most of the decks - instances where it might be cool is an addition of color to otherwise pure decks (especially situations like pure fire combined with nature heals etc.) or support-less decks, that usually dont have heals/CCs - and even then its basically to empower your T3 options. For obvious reasons, the card is unusable in PvP. So I am a little skeptical about it, as my assumption is a straight downfall in use of it altogether.

I smell FarRock figuring in this a little bit. We are talking about twitch afterall :)

From my point of view this is just another aspect of the game considered to be used as a tactic. And not only for 'dancers. Its generally an advantage players can take during duels (or possibly some PvE maps) :P Definitelly not a bug nor an abuse. Its fine - there are ways to deal with it anyway. :)

[quote='Eirias' pid='11099' dateline='1438225590'] [quote='ndclub' pid='10966' dateline='1438197163'] This subject is very close to my heart. I think if we can run a test server and constantly test and retune cards it would be a priceless resource - one that I would love to pour time into. To concerns about not knowing how players will use cards once it goes public I think this fear comes from the pace of EA changes. If they screwed up it would be minimum 2 months later of terror before any fix occurs. There is nothing stopping us for patching as we go far more often. In my vision for bforge, every card should have a use, even if that use is in rare situations. There should never be a completely outclassed or worthless card. Edit: Except Girl Power - Please delete that card as fast as you can and never speak of it again. [/quote] Actually, I thought girl power was okay in a pure fire deck for buffing firedancer and gladiatrix? I love how balanced this game is, and my fear is that making more options viable will upset the balance. That said, I would LIKE to see more variety of cards. In my opinion, the best way this would be implemented would be through tome (probably some modification would have to be done). I'm definitely not opposed to a test server with tweaks running, but they'd need to be tested extensively before put into the real game, and removed very quickly if something surfaces as OP that the test server didn't predict. I think we should also have program in the game that runs statistics, for help with balancing. [/quote] Well iam not so certain about how much is it balanced - some cards are OP as hell (used solo, not in combo) . Some examples might be Curse Well, Batariel, Lost Vigil (its range is insane...) :) :P

A very very very long article tho :) :P

Very nice list of guides, but i would add Chibiterasu's one as well :P Here is it : http://bfreborn.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=457

[quote='WotdeFack' pid='10228' dateline='1438035048'] Potato doesnt need reason. Potato is life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnAbKL__oM [/quote] Is it you in that video ? :D

[quote='ladadoos' pid='9061' dateline='1437648569'] [quote='Pigslord' pid='9032' dateline='1437619996'] Interesting, any information on the amount of entry level cards in the market? Or how the prices will be set? [/quote] As far as I know, they still don't know how the prices will be set/amount of entry cards in the market. Only thing we really know is that they will put cards in AH with prices they think are right. [/quote] There is a tool called *rarity desirability value* which shows you detailed worth of cards on a huge scale. One is on battleforge wiki for example :P

And still no 69 referrences ? :kappa: What...

Girl power for shadow (shadow mages QQ) Any swift unit for frost

Legacy Reforge is a *brand new game* anyway. It is related to old battleforge , but its not the same. They have still a long way to go till they finish it.

[quote='ndclub' pid='9178' dateline='1437681183'] TEXAS [/quote] WoW :) I think you are first one from there here tho :D

[quote='Ultrakool' pid='8689' dateline='1437517188'] I got another change: All different editions will be in the same booster. Now as for the source, I'm not sure, he might have said it in the podcast, I might have heard it around here, but I'm pretty sure the info is legit. [/quote] It will work exactly like you've stated my friend :)