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Cocofang
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Posts posted by Cocofang
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The footage isn't edited, it's a recording of the mechanic after I cobbled it together as a test to see if projectiles can indeed spawn units. Was a playable, usable Spore Launcher that shot Treespirits.
As such I think it would also be possible to have it as a separate active ability that scales with support. Meaning, the more heavily Spore Launcher is supported by a network, the more Treespirits it summons at a time.
Lans likes this -
@JarodDempsey There is text under the picture.
@Ragenarok Nothing is being taken away from Forest Elder G. The Breeding Grounds aura is a new, additional passive that both affinities get. The old damage amp aura stays for G. It's even getting buffed to have a bigger area.
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Making it possible for entities with boss immunity to be taunted would affect all taunts equally though, not just Grinder.
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It would be SO MUCH cooler if the Treespirits got spawned from the projectile, not from the unit itself. I mean, it is literally called a "Spore Launcher".
Having it on every auto attack (or every few ones) would be amazing but it would have some wonky quirks to work out. The amount of spawned Treespirits could even scale with the amount of spores shot and therefore with support, as far as I have seen. They'd have to be temporary though.
Imagine if attackers got swamped like that. Could take Spore Launcher into an entirely different direction. Nerf the amount of default spores it shoots from 3 to 1 but let every attack spawn a Treespirit, amount of spores and Treespirits scaling with support. Unfortunately, the Treespirits would take up pop cap as we don't currently have a way to introduce new pop-counts per unit ...
chickennoodler, Xamos, Draconnor and 7 others like this -
@Donaar You didn't list the point that it makes the game look like a mess if such blatantly unbalanced and upon further scrutiny unfinished/broken mechanics are just left unaddressed while they proliferate throughout general play.
Handwaving issues away with "Just don't use it!" isn't design. It isn't a vision to go forward with and it isn't a guideline to base meaningful decisions on. And it also disregards the underlying psychology that is at work when humans engage with content like video games. There are plenty of resources out there that examine these processes and how the state of a games content influences and guides people. It's a fundamental pillar.
A common narrative is that taking away options is bad. And more options is always better.
Let us test this assertion with a hypothetical.
Imagine all cards in the game are neutral T1. You can play all cards in the game right out of the gate. You can also combine all cards in the game however you please. The only limiting factors are now energy and deck slots. Ultimate freedom. No restrictions. Everyone can play what they want. Maximum options, apparently the best thing for an RTS.What would really happen though?
Would cards which are T1-3 currently still remain attractive? A few would because they scale throughout tiers. But would the deck building remain an interesting and meaningful aspect of the games design? After all, you can just put anything in your deck, no limitations anymore. So many more options that wouldn't be possible with restrictive tiers and colors. Yet almost all cards would vanish into obscurity.What would you have to do to get all the cards up to speed in order for them to compete with the best? Even within the (current) T4 roster, what would manifest is a very narrow pool of cards that are "the best" and everything else is just a handicap. You could still play them, of course. Nobody is forcing you to play a 5000/5000 unit instead of a 500/500. It's all just options. Yet how meaningful are any choices one could make in this environment?
The bottom line is more options does not equal better. It's deliberate restrictions and limitations that make for intrigue and creativity. Because those actually incentivize exploring what is out there instead of just having "Gun!" to throw against Rock-Paper-Scissors. The amount of options is of course important but equally so is the relative quality of the options. Because options that are too good will naturally suffocate others. Worse still if that is the case because they are simply broken.
It offers the illusion of more choices but in reality it just warps the game and its power levels. Untouched options may remain at their current strength but their relative power changes with the top. If you have option A being worth 100, B 50 and C 40 there is a huge difference. But if you take the A down to 60 then suddenly you are looking at A being at 100% power but B jumping from 50% to 83% and even C going from 40% to 66%. Without touching them their relative power increased drastically.
Ripping the band aid off always stings but what's below festered for too long.
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"No anti structure spells" is exactly the situation that pure Nature is in. And even after the update it won't have them. However, it will have other, thematic ways of dealing with high priority buildings. Namely Mind Control, which lets you take over a strong enemy unit, have it be immune to debuffs, and then send it after the target. And Grove Spirit, which lets you protect your army before it gets caught up in CC.
I think an additional cleanse effect would make too strong and remove an interesting aspect of the ability. Namely having to time it right instead of mindlessly spamming it whenever. Also, the idea is that the factions are still unique and don't just get the same tools to deal with everything. So while similar, there is a unique spin to it.
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Nature has more than enough healing at its disposal. If anything, the heal is there for flavor and really not that important.
What is the main draw here is that units will be safe from debuffs, including CC. Notice it's worded the same way as Disenchant G. Which includes freeze and paralyze, giving Nature an extremely powerful tool to preemptively make their army immune against Willzappers and other CC threats. However, it has to be applied beforehand as it does not actively cleanse. Only prevent the application of debuffs/CC.
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If Primeval Watcher is to go 3Nature1Neutral, I think Nature itself needs a replacement. Every faction has at least two 2Factioncolor2Neutral units for committed hybrid decks or dipping two orbs deep into one color.
This effectively leaves Nature with zero, because Spore Launcher is a root-card and has niche needs. Sure, you have Grimvine and Giant Wyrm as even more flexible splashes but that ain't the same. Primeval Watcher always was the sole T4 unit Nature offered as an "upgrade" for 2Nature splash.
Alternatively, instead of increasing the orb requirements, an ability cost could be added since it is now much more powerful.
Or an orb-swap with Colossus could be considered as well. So Primeval Watcher 3Nature1Neutral and Colossus 2Nature2Neutral.
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@Reverend830 If you are thinking of any specific maps and got ideas on how to change these to help encourage more strategies after rolling them with taken over entities is no longer as easily doable, stop by in the Campaign Maps sub forum and share.
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7 hours ago, Hirooo said:
While I agree in general, NG changes are getting announced now and map changes aren't.
Partially true, the threads for maps have been up for a long time. Titans already has one proposal, namely replacing Pos4 Fathom Lord with Deep One. Now people can think about (additional) changes to these maps unshackled by NG shenanigans. It helps if first the frame is drawn within the changes occur.
Basically, what would maps that previously were very much dominated by NG (to the point of people relying on it) need in order to improve the T1 experience?
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There is a post with text above the post with pictures.
Hirooo and JarodDempsey like this -
Vileblood camp.
Whisperer camp.
Dancer camp.
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Imagine this is what players would see at all times. If the three camps got excluded from Fog of War, just like the Nightmareshard itself.
Who would get baited into attacking the Vileblood camp if they saw this? It's being viewed as the "T2 camp" because of its proximity. But just the physical presence of these L units alone makes it the most intimidating. And that is on top of the harsh Maelstrom placement.
I still think simply showing people what they are about to deal with can go a long way in making this map seem clearer.On top of making the camps more approachable in general. Meaning replacing the Twilight Bombard in the middle section to help reach the Dancer camp. A Hatecaster would still be strong but not knock back literally all available T1 units.
Probably change the Maelstrom cutting off the Vileblood camp, yes. Just a longer interval would change the dynamic too.
And with the front Hatecaster in the Whisperer camp replaced, it would be easier to get to as well.
Ultralord likes this -
If you think those maps would become absolutely unbearably horrible to play, meaning any possible enjoyment would entirely rely on roflstomping with NG, than this would instead point towards issues with the maps themselves. Interestingly, they even precede NGs introduction to the game.
There are already topics where you can discuss problems you see with them and propose solutions:
Nightmare Shard
Behind Enemy LinesHirooo likes this -
2 hours ago, Bini Inibitor said:
Twilight Curse, same for Treefiend. "An inelegant solution as Parasite Swarm ought to be able to swap them" as WindHunter put it.
So the idea is to have these units as targets for Twilight Curse but not for NG, right? So it's T2 150p VS T2 200p. But the problem is that these two units are also supposed to be Parasite Swarm targets which goes T3 150p.
What if instead Parasite Swarm got "buffed" to being able to take over T3 175p units and Twilight Hag + Twilight Treefiend got changed to T2 175p?
This would put them in range of Parasite Swarm, keep them out of NG and within Twilight Curse's range.
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@Kapo I'm with you on Twilight Hag and Treefiend as it has similar stats to Thornbark.
Whisperers though not only offer sustain but also damage and perma CC on any enemy ranged units. That's well above a T3 power level. Similarly Stonekin Aggressor has higher power than any T3 L ranged unit. The same is true for the other excluded L units, Devastator and Rageflame getting a grace pass.Some of the excluded L units could probably skate in terms of theoretical power efficiency. If they were assigned T3 150p some could still be within bounds of what such a unit would look like as a player card. However takeover is binary. It doesn't differentiate if the taken over entity is better or worse, it simply either works or doesn't. It could be a consideration if takeover was dynamically adjusting its power cost depending on what it gets used on but that's not the case. So despite these exceptions being theoretically feasible T3 150p units, they are objectively better than actual T3 L units. And those are the benchmark.
We must never forget that we are still talking about a mechanic that:
- insta-kills.
- creates energy unbound entities.
- adds enemy battle power to your own, creating a drastic shift.
- can jump tiers in terms of accessible power.
So these points have to be kept in mind when considering units that are stronger than any player T3 L equivalents, while the player is still on T2.
15 minutes ago, Bini Inibitor said:Would be fitting, not sure how defining class behaviour works ingame, would be your cup of tea or someone with access to tools.
In this case it's as easy as a few clicks. Amazons takeover ability has a simple restriction that it can only be used on enemies that have the class Beast. So by simply adding the Beast class to Manabeast, it could be taken over.
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Looks like reasonable stuff overall.
It gives the impression that the guideline for orb and power assignment was player cards, which would make the most sense.M Units
Excluded for NG: Twilight Hag, Twilight Negator, Twilight Whisperer, Lost Spellbreaker, Drones, Firechanter
Which interactions does Twilight Negator have with PvE entities? Unlike MotK it doesn't block attacks.
I suppose Drones are blocked because the player card is T3?Excluded for Parasite Swarm: Twilight Hag, Twilight Whisperer
Not sure about Twilight Hag. It has M knockback, which is very strong on T1 and still good on T2. But why keep it from Parasite Swarm? Nightmare Shard uses Twilight Witches, which are currently (hidden) immune against takeover.L Units
Roster available for NG: Twilight Devastator, Stonekin Rageflame, Lost Manabeast, Lost Shade, Spikeroot
There are two obvious concessions here:
Stonekin Rageflame - T2 100p for 1750/1950
Much higher raw stats than any T2 ranged unit, even if it cannot attack air.
Twilight Devastator - T2 100p for 1800/1700 + Siege
Higher raw stats than any T2 unit except Harvester.So that gives NG basically two "cheat" units that grant T3 equivalent power. I don't like it but if PvP makes it impossible for NG to comfortably go all in on T2 150p units (through cheaper ability, no resistance buff, etc.), I guess.
Roster available for Amazon: Twilight Devastator
Why not Lost Manabeast? It literally has "beast" in its name, wouldn't it make sense for it to get the Beast-class so Amazon can take it over.Roster available for Parasite Swarm: Twilight Deathglider, Twilight Devastator, Twilight Frenzy, Twilight Horror, Twilight Vileblood, Stonekin Rageflame, Stonekin Warrior, Lost Manabeast, Lost Reaver, Lost Shade, Lost Vigil, Ashbone Pyro, Mutating Frenzy, Fathom Lord, Spikeroot, Swamp Drake, Thornbark, Magma Hurler, Virtuoso, Vulcan
All within reasonable bounds for T2/T3 units.Excluded for Parasite Swarm: Bandit Gunners, Bandit Hornblower, Bandit Windhunter, Twilight Treefiend, Stonekin Aggressor, Stonekin Rockstorm, Void Maw, Emberstrike
All either have their player version on T4 or have power well above player T3 L units. So makes sense.XL units
Excluded from Mind Control and Mindweaver: Bandit Lord, Bandit Ship, Raven Battleship, Raven Scoutship, Lost Archfiend, Viridya's Grimvine, Stonekin Arbiter, Stonekin Deepfang, Stonekin Gemeye
All make sense here.
Now the important question though: How is it going to be communicated to the player which units can be taken over by which takeover-instance? I feel like word of mouth is not enough. Will the tooltips be changed? -
@TREX All Towers have damage capabilities, except Stranglehold G, Willzapper and Lost Converter.
Stranglehold G can be put aside since P has damage. Lost Converter doesn't even have internally assigned classes, clearly an oversight. Which leaves Willzapper as the only building that is somehow a designated Tower, yet cannot deal damage. So I would argue that in its case we are looking at a faulty class assignment, it should be a Shrine instead. Same as Lost Converter. As such Willzapper falls outside the scope of a Tower/Fortress rework.
As for Infected Tower, what do you think it would need to receive in compensation? If you could make an Infected Tower that operates under a pop cap but is still good to go, what would it look like?
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Hmm, I feel like the new booster covers are still not quite there.
Mini and General didn't get changed as far as I can tell.
Fire is very busy now. Previously it had two prominent figures in Rageclaw and Firedancer, one smaller in Juggernaut and a barely visible Moloch. I liked the purple hue of the previous one but the new orange cover is nice as well.
It looks chaotic, like a scene from a battle. But it is fitting for fire. On the other hand I don't quite see what it has in common with the other three pure covers. It's the only one that looks like a cohesive artwork.
Overall I think both old and new are good in their own ways but when it comes to visual clarity the old one had the edge with Rageclaw and Firedancer being very clearly visible. The old Moloch up there in the corner though ... kind of useless.I don't get this "snapshot of the moment" feel from the other three pure faction covers though.
The old shadow one pretty much only had Fallen Skyelf as the centerpiece, the rest just kind of merged together. Especially Necrofury had it bad, just like old Moloch. In the new one, the Fallen Skyelf is just a tiny speck and feels more like clutter than part of the image. Tiny Harvester creeping in from the side feels out of place, he is so small. Shadow Worm is the most prominent creature but without knowing that its a worm, you'd also just think it's a disembodied maw. I do like the Skeletons taken from the Harvester artwork at the bottom. I think both old and new kind of miss the mark but I give the edge to the old one because it has a more prominent, clear centerpiece in Fallen Skyelf.
Old frost booster had pretty much only Frost Mage going for it. The rest was a mashup without a sense of scale or perspective. New cover nails the sense of scale with Frost Mage < Tremor < Construct but the three entities don't seem connected. And Frost Mage is a way too detailed artwork. It just blurs into spikes and lights when scaled down to that size. I much prefer the old one, if only for the fact that it had at least one clearly visible, detailed figure.
The new nature one has two very cool elements in the green tornado and the Thornbark in the background. But the Werebeasts and Shaman are in a odd place. Shaman is the only entity not heavily tinted green. Despite standing out in color, he is also rather small. Do like the new darker greens overall, it seems more menacing. But I feel like the old nature cover was pretty spot on from a compositional standpoint. It had three clearly visible entities, Grove Spirit taking centerstage, Spore Launcher being visible in big parts and taking up the background. Parasite Swarm rounding out the cover in the corner and being big enough to stay present, although its size being off. It seemed pretty ideal.
Twilight now has a teal hue and is zoomed further out. I like the change in size but the fact that the hue also affects the letters makes it seem like the colors simply messed up instead of an intentional change.
Bandit got the BATTLE color changed, I like it. It has one prominent entity and that's it. But the artwork is still great. Although very much its own thing.
Stonekin has an entirely new lettering color. Both top and bottom being so similar makes it lack an interesting highlight/contrast, that the logo usually provides. If only one part of the logo had these colors but the other was different, it would definitely be more consistent with the rest. The collage of Stonekin entities is unchanged and still a bit weird. Deepfang once again popping in from the side with unfitting size and the barely visible, second Crystal Fiend is unnecessary.
Lost Souls seems to be unchanged and is still fine. Only odd thing is the tiny Lost Horror there. But it's another battle scene, just like the new fire cover. I like this cover, even though only Lost Grigori is really visible. It's good but definitely not consistent with the rest.
Amii is also unchanged and could maybe use an update, we have Paladins now after all. The lettering is badass though. Love the colors.
Overall, I feel these updates is odd. The best new one is probably Fire, I'd say. Then maybe Nature but it got its problems.
If the goal was consistency as stated, then I don't see how that was achieved.Lettering:
Mini, General and 4x Pure - Normal two-color lettering
Twilight - Teal hue lettering
Bandits, Lost Souls, Amii - Specific two-color lettering
Stonekin - Uniform letteringI'd say Twilight and Stonekin are the odd ones when it comes to this aspect of the booster cover. And Stonekin was changed but instead of being consistent it is now an odd one out.
Cover art:
Mini, General - Structure
Shadow, Frost, Nature, Stonekin - Mashup of three entities
Fire, Lost Souls - Cohesive battle scene artwork
Twilight - Still the planet?
Bandits, Amii - A single entity (although Bandits has a "scenery" feel to it whereas Amii is more of a character-artwork)There is hardly any consistency here. I guess the idea was "Mashup of three entities" but I am not a fan of the execution. Harvester and Fallen Skyelf are super sidelined in Shadow. Frost Mage blurs together with the other entities and loses its details. Shaman sticks out color wise but is so small, Werebeast is mostly obscured by the lettering. And Fire is its own thing entirely. Just from glancing over the general color composition, I do like Fires reddish orange and Natures dark tone but those aren't necessarily defining.
So I am mostly just left confused. Aiming for "consistency" implies there was a specific concept in mind that got worked towards, but I don't quite see it in the results. In the places where there is consistency (Shadow, Frost, Nature, Stonekin) I find the execution not entirely up to par.
I am sure all adjustments went through quite a lot of iterations but what checks were there to see the goals through?
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The seasonal forge is a fun idea! I really like the winter one.
The dark gray lines should get another touch up though. They look painted on. The original forge has the golden borders, which gives the illusion of stone plates framed in gold. You barely see a hint of slightly blue borders in the winter forge.
e/ Oh, I hadn't even looked at it with normal settings. Had the game in a small window with low specs, as I sometimes do, when first checking the winter forge out. Nevermind, it looks amazing in high specs.
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On 1/18/2022 at 2:51 PM, Volin said:
Only beware of the "cheap Fire" that is linked, guess that one isn't such a good idea 😛
What are the issues with it?
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The T3 shadow core of Frenetic, Infect, Soulshatter is always good. SoW even instantly refunds the energy expenditure.
For T1 Soul Splicer G could be a consideration.
Tortugun will have to be fed, otherwise it will just run wild and eat your own units. Is the plan to feed it with Commandos spawned by Corsair? Generally, I feel like Tortugun is such an unique unit that you almost have to build your entire deck around it to function. Which offers a great playstyle but doesn't really give you room to do anything else other than manage your Tortuguns.
T2 is so powerful with Harvester, that you could even remove your T3 units entirely and get by. Harvester + T3 spells will go a long way.
Not a fan of Lava Field because you only get that by T3, at which point you'll probably want to spend your energy on the much stronger shadow spells.
Bloodhorn P could replace Bloodhorn R, since you use Disenchant G anyway. Bloodhorn P has very high boss damage but Bloodhorn R is much more reliable. Either is fine, really.
An alternative to Shrine of War can be Furnace of Flesh + Cultist Master. Depends on how you feel like it plays out. In rPvE, you'll never want for energy while SoW is running. FoF+CM is completely autonomous though, it can be used whenever. You can play around with what you prefer.
Necroblaster seems a bit odd, definitely not too necessary for rPvE. And on cPvE T3 looks a bit late to get fortification going. Can leave it in if you find yourself using it frequently.
What you are definitely missing is sustain. You can't heal your army at any point in the game, except for the puny heal of Nether Warp G. And I guess Necroblaster? But that has limited range. Consider Blood Healing or Bloodthirst. Both combo very well with Unity B. Blood Healing works great with Undead Army.
Metagross31, Dallarian and 15935789 like this -
It doesn't matter. You are focusing way too much on the things in the statement that you dislike than what should put you at ease.
Nothing is changing in that respect except for the male/female mechanic, which includes only Twilight Hag and Girl Power.
Zyna likes this -
2 hours ago, Fimion said:
So does this mean we are suddenly going to remove all references and things that might be considered offending? Of course not. But we do feel removing the worst offenders is worth it. Changing Girl Power is a lot trickier, but we plan to tackle it at some time in the future, for the reasons mentioned above.
Shouldn't this put the entire thing to rest anyway?
Like I said, it's just the male/female mechanic that's getting scrapped/overhauled. A mechanic nobody cares about. That includes Twilight Hag and consequently its ability icon. It wasn't even the ugly, disgusting Hag itself dancing on the pole, which would've been funny. It was straight up just a stripper and a disco ball.
It seems you are concerned about this being the harbinger of a great purge of scrubbing the game squeaky clean. But the very statement you quoted specifies that it's not. It is about reworking the male/female mechanic. Which affects two cards that nobody uses.
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Scantly clad men and women aren't going anywhere as far as I can tell.
Just the male/female mechanic and the stripper pole are on the chopping block.
Can provoke be made to work on bosses?
in Cards
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Not sure about the Lightblade restriction. A target power cost limit seems to be doable without a major rework. By assigning boss-units really high values it could lock it out.
Frenetic Assault also uses a provoke mechanic. Knight of Chaos and Amok are a different effect.