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Neox

Church of negation

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Hi I'd like to ask people how to deal with church of negation when playing fire, there is literally nothing you can do against it except for suppression spell which would take up a whole card slot for 1 card.

I don't know if it is a bug or if its meant to be but disenchant doesn't work on a unit being desintegrated. I think they should change it and make it so disenchant removes it for a time.

I only encountered one person who does this but this is such a lame tactic and it sucks because only thing you can do is spawn units to make it break but one kobold trick and its fine again.

Would like some ideas or feedback on how to deal with it except for suppression.

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13 hours ago, Neox said:

nope tried it and it wasn't

Erm, yes it is?....obviously there are still things than can happen (like nether warp)

If you're playing pure fire, fire dancers might work. You can also try to overwhelm it with units and use a jugger to stomp it.

After this game, I was actually carrying earthshaker for a while because I was so scarred...(that was only like my 3rd video btw, so sorry for low quality)

Navarr likes this

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6 hours ago, Eirias said:

Erm, yes it is?....obviously there are still things than can happen (like nether warp)

If you're playing pure fire, fire dancers might work. You can also try to overwhelm it with units and use a jugger to stomp it.

After this game, I was actually carrying earthshaker for a while because I was so scarred...(that was only like my 3rd video btw, so sorry for low quality)

Nope, literally spawned sunstriders at my wel for this to make them have to run to be sure they werent in range and when they tried to fire the ability they got the tower on them. Might be some weird bf thing that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt but in pvp it didn't work for me.

Also tried firedancers but they just get warped into it since they can pretty much spam netherwarp if you're zoned so you can only come from  way

 

Oh damn that game hurt my hope for this community, how lame can they go xD worldbreaker gun never even saw that before in pvp. 

 

Anyway I was a casual pvper before but wasn't very good, thanks for the tips.

17 hours ago, nofearek9 said:

spam lot of small units and erruption ,very rare card for pvp.

that's what I tried too but he just did kobold trick

Edited by Neox

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Sunstriders work. They DO have longer range than church if you activate them from the correct spot. If you use the ability and let them move without additional micro, they will sometimes run into the church range, but if you place them at firedancer range and then use the ability, the will shoot without moving => ez hard counter

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Range can be wonky sometimes because of hitboxes and terrain. When testing artillery vs fire stalkers sometimes the tower can shoot the attackers and sometimes not.

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15 minutes ago, Ggoblin said:

Range can be wonky sometimes because of hitboxes and terrain. When testing artillery vs fire stalkers sometimes the tower can shoot the attackers and sometimes not.

works with units too. You can manipulate ranged units so that one unit can attack while the other cant. It's a perfect alternative strategy to trap incomes in rPvE.
 

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On 12/26/2018 at 10:06 PM, Ggoblin said:

Range can be wonky sometimes because of hitboxes and terrain. When testing artillery vs fire stalkers sometimes the tower can shoot the attackers and sometimes not.

yeah was probably some weird battleforge thing with this

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Here is just a short overview of counter methods against CoN

 

1) Curse Well

As Church of Negation takes out 150 power out of the void flow, this means hitting power wells with Curse Well makes it even more effective. The bound power makes counter attacks less frightening

2) Earthshaker

This is more of a 2v2 thing and got mentioned here already, but Earthshaker is a very good counter for Churches for a similar reasoning. The Church Player is slowed down due to his defence so he can't punish T4 properly

3) Supression/Sunstriders

Guess that got discussed already, so I won't comment on that any further. 

4) Abuse the slot instensity

Church of Negations requires alot of slots to work (2Nether Warps + Kobold Trick + Church + 3 T3 cards minimum). This means regardless of a Shadow Frost or Pure Shadow T2, the decks well lack some important early cards (Just to name some potential ones: Nightguard, Phasetower, Stormsinger, Knight of Chaos, Frostbite). I've seen Abaaama with a 12 card T3 while trying to get through T2 with Shadowmage and Netherwarp + Aura of Corruption.  

5) Win by Score

If everything fails, you still can try to setup a solid defense, especially when playing a frost splash, to stall up until 30 minutes. You will most likeley posses a higher score as the churches imply alot of bound power, that can't go through the void circle, which affects the score in a negative way on the long run.  

  

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21 hours ago, RadicalX said:

Here is just a short overview of counter methods against CoN

 

1) Curse Well

As Church of Negation takes out 150 power out of the void flow, this means hitting power wells with Curse Well makes it even more effective. The bound power makes counter attacks less frightening

2) Earthshaker

This is more of a 2v2 thing and got mentioned here already, but Earthshaker is a very good counter for Churches for a similar reasoning. The Church Player is slowed down due to his defence so he can't punish T4 properly

3) Supression/Sunstriders

Guess that got discussed already, so I won't comment on that any further. 

4) Abuse the slot instensity

Church of Negations requires alot of slots to work (2Nether Warps + Kobold Trick + Church + 3 T3 cards minimum). This means regardless of a Shadow Frost or Pure Shadow T2, the decks well lack some important early cards (Just to name some potential ones: Nightguard, Phasetower, Stormsinger, Knight of Chaos, Frostbite). I've seen Abaaama with a 12 card T3 while trying to get through T2 with Shadowmage and Netherwarp + Aura of Corruption.  

5) Win by Score

If everything fails, you still can try to setup a solid defense, especially when playing a frost splash, to stall up until 30 minutes. You will most likeley posses a higher score as the churches imply alot of bound power, that can't go through the void circle, which affects the score in a negative way on the long run.  

  

Alright thanks for your insight and yeah was thinking of going for a time win but didn't feel like waiting 20 more minutes xD

Will try earthshaker and curse well in the future, since only two players use church anyway.

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In 1n1 you can most likely break the church. You are dealing damage against 1 kobold trick so spawn 7+ high HP units and get them into the church at the same time. The damage should be more than the one kobold can sustain.

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On 1/1/2019 at 10:50 PM, Hirooo said:

In 1n1 you can most likely break the church. You are dealing damage against 1 kobold trick so spawn 7+ high HP units and get them into the church at the same time. The damage should be more than the one kobold can sustain.

For that matter CoN players use to have 2 churches relatively close to each other so they can split up enemy units with their 2 nether warps. Can't really break through on even power. So as a non-fire splash I'd recommend to take the free win on time and use the 15-20 remaining minutes to flame the church player and laugh at him :)

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For that he has to play a unit to get spell presence to port units before they enter church range. Together with the rather tight power schedule for 3+ churches you can outplay and break a church. Winning on time once churches are set up is not easy considering all the enemy has to do is get spell presence for cursed well.

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