Volin

@DemonRJ Transcendence could do a really nice job here, played it just for the first time I must give in and it is really nice to buff up a mix of units like here. A shame I did not really recognize the card earlier. Will try it tomorrow in your deck, may be a nice add-on.

Experience is from a certain point a pure asthetic thing too, it has no impact on anything. As already some people reached the max rank it seems to be quite in a sweet spot now as it is. What would be the point of going faster through the ranks?

It is there, could be perhaps highlighted a bit more, but the topic and the importance are covered.

If only it were two full mins 😓

Heya, wanted to share a deck again that is currently a great fun for me and as it is also quite beginner friendly I think it's cool to post it here. The only really expensive card in my current setup ist Cluster Explosion (red) which can be replaced with just another dmg spell or a T2 unit for low budget. Just made this a few days, looks so far as 3 heals (plus Unity) could be a little over the top, so feel free to cut Equilibrium. The latest buffs of Inferno and Fire Sphere make this really fun to play and the alltime classic Thunderstorm and Cluster compliment this well. Mandatory are in my eyes: - Oink for at least a little CC (time buyer and help to get T4) - Unity BLUE! (Fire Dragons get quite tanky with a Grimvine in a Unity) - Regrowth and Bloodthirst - above mentioned 4 dmg spells, feel free to add more - Grimevine (nice, cheap all time classic, a great tank for just a few bucks) - Shrine of War (build 2, you need constant void return to use ur spells all time) - Inc Mo (needed if you want to utilize your Dragons against Lost Souls, use the Yellow one, else the green is always handy) Handy but optional: - Breeding (your partner may appreciate that) - Revenge is more a filler but always nice to have and a good supporter - 3rd heal T1 or classic Fire or Nature start T2 Feel free to add a T2 unit of your flavor, usually both T1 colours deal perfectly fine with any T3 enemies with the help of Oink T3 Usually here you want to build your Shrine ASAP. If needed get some Hurlers out, together with your spells and Unity they are really a force. T4 Get a Grimvine out and go ahead, it is mostly just the ground presence for your spells. Once you have plenty energy feel free to add some Dragons as they are superb boss killers. Play Bloodthirst in advance before you engage camps, if there are Windhunters or other paralyzing units Oink them for a few. Don't hold back with your spells, if you activate your Shrine you can play them endless and let Fire and Thunder rain on your enemies!

Like it - could replace one of my former Amii decks which is not playble anymore due to the Watcher changes

Who are you and what you have done to our Dutchy?

I just imagine 3 Dancers up there in the camp and 2 comming with the wave 🤭 EDIT-PS: My theraphists bill is on its way

*Stone Shell (G) is amused*

Get only easy going maps and the one harder map that I got I played with a total rookie, no wonder I ran out of heals in the last row, in addition the replay broke. You know murphys law, when I picked a bandit deck a few days ago I got a super hard LS 🙂 If I don't get a nice example the next days I have a motm in mind to show what I (and Fundus, and Dutchy, and Blash, and Donaar, and Myno and Ponni, and a few others - you may recognize some names) mean. At your replay, as I said you where the strongest player, no doubt. Your mates would have not won without you. You had in all stronger camps a huge meatshield running with you and watch how fast your Bata still dropped sometimes. Not only you supported (strongly) your group they did the same (partly unintended) for you. You would probably not been able to clear almost the complete last row without them, at least that is what I see there. Please don't get me wrong, that was hell of a good match from you and by far the best out of the three!

As the title says. Replay said before I entered the last row (12:12min) that it is desync and wanted me to bug-report it. After the message the replay shows indeed different things if you watch it several times reproducibility: yes, watched it 3x and everytime it gave this error code autosave.pmv

Just as a quick response: "Outperform" is a wide term here. There are several powerlevels of decks, mainly speed and security, we should not mix that wildly but differ here. Let's take the stonekin example here: Is Batariel usually way faster as Stonekin, yes for sure. So Bata "outperforms" that in this case. Same for the mentioned Giant Wyrms for example. Safety is just another measure, the one that I mainly aimed here when starting this off. Here for example some unit based decks are clearly outperforming Batariel. We should calm down this discussion and differ here as the situation is complicated, think this is important for proper balancing decisions. But please don't get me wrong, Fundus, we share the same fears and position in general ofc.

Just wrote a detailed reply half as long as the bible to accidentally delete it 😞 In short then: It's not really part of the point, but please reflect on your early and mid game, it's nonsensical in parts and often borders on gross rudeness. The Twilight deck is the bad highlight here, where your mate does all the midtier part for the "early" Bata, that then stands around for almost 4mins, to walk then over to your mates in the easy camp. The Bata before the SoW is not only dangerous for you when the T4 gets harder, but also a bit rude to the other players (you play a single-unit deck and use the least energy anyway) and the T4 wells slow you down immensely. But that's just a side note. First of all, none of the maps are on the high end of the difficulty scale, but you'll be aware of that. Especially the fire-with-death and the twilight map are very easy. The only halfway clean performance of the deck is on the other fire replay, where unfortunately your mates catch up just as it gets exciting. On the fire-with-death map, you don't carry anything, the map is teamplay from front to back. Ypu were the BY FAR most experienced player on this map, all your mates where quite rookie or on new/experimental decks. All camps in the last two rows are pure teamwork there. In the Twilight replay the Single Grimvine with Firebomb outperforms the Batariel. *sad Volin noises* But may be player depended here. The situation Fundus and I are talking about: Tough map and being on your own for some camps doesn't even apply over these 3 replays (I haven't looked at the Stonekin replays, any better player can manage most Stonekin maps with a few randomly thrown together). Then I want to share some of my insights and learnings but first a word on my definition on my used term "the deck is dead". When saying that I mean not it is not suitable for anything at all. But if a deck works nowhere, sorry, it is not a deck at all. Then it is either a sketch of a deck or some randomly thrown together cards. After our discussion here heated up I asked for some feedback in my static group to reflect myself. Foremost Hiroo and Radical defended the deck at once and pointed out that there's still room for some nice times on some maps. We even started a session on the 4player 9 what is a most easy stonekin map, to be fair I can say Batariels can be still VERY fast on such maps. Not the fastest around as back before the nerf, but a sub 10 min is something that only very few decks can achieve. This is given due to the fact that this decks binds not much energy and can start of very early and at the same time this deck as no scaling with energy which lets it start at full power level what is nice for such fast runs. Here the nerf hit perfectly its goal to lower the powerlevel just a tiny bit below the best possible decks. On the other hand I see my experience on those 2 mentioned Twilight maps and here is where we see the problems. Even though the dmg is high enough to clear easier camps quite fast, even a tough Twilight 9 brought me into deep troubles. When you have 3 Willzapper, spread out in a way that you have (with the spawner) 4 priority targets that you can only kill one by one, the time-window that disenchant gives you is not enough for a safe kill. If negators come into this situation - as I have faced it - there is not room for just a tiny little missplay, and even executed perfectly I think you may have troubles with this situation. Now imagine even an Infester or Urzach in addition. Not an everyday scenario but totally realistic and a thing that happens from time to time. Given the goal was to nerf Bata in a way that it should remain in the upper tiers, it felt terrible that an ofc way slower (but more steady) Stonekin Deck had to carry me on this map a little. Still my spells gave some value to the team ofc but alone I would have been quite desperate there. You may argue that this is a multiplayer modus and teamplay is mandatory ofc - but from my understanding teamplay is sometimes, if given to the situation, that you split up where it is needed and you are able to do a camp or two on your own. Even worse was my experience on the mentioned Twilight 10, easier scale of camps - not even one of those 5 Evil Eye situations, with a harder boss (Infester). Here I was not able to take out the camp in 4 tries, maybe given to my skill-level, but most scary to me. The time window that is here not only influenced by Disenchant but also to your CC was not long enough to proc enough crawlers to be able to take out the two willzappers and the spawner before the boss just crushed me. This situations make me fear of exactly what Fundus describes, the combination of a few threads can these days lead to a quick wipe. This is why I hardly doubt that the deck is still viable for random maps where you don't know what you encounter, this is even more the fact for 10s. Even Cocos replay show a few situations where I would be curious how they would have ended if there would not have been support spells and tons of meat-shields around him, though the maps where not that tough at all. Finally I don't want to exclude that I may be just wrong with my fears because I'm used to such a high power-level of this deck, that it is very hard for me to get used to the current state. I think I'm quite good in analyzing rpve situations, but perhaps I'm just to biased. I will play my dailies with this deck the next week (did more fun stuff to me the last days and tested other new balancing (great stuff again with the last patch)). EDIT-PS: Btw the boss-dmg seems to be way lower then before, not as you Coco, say it would be so insane. When fighting the Bandit-Battleship on the Stonekin 9 motm it just felt painly slow. And this is not even a case where you can use a Skyelf properly. Just as a side note.

Nope, the deck is dead. You mean the slightly buffed single-target dmg that does not even help to trigger the aura any faster? Sorry, but you do not seem to understand how this deck worked. Batariel decks are no big dmg spell carrier. The main dmg must usually come from Batariel himself, this deck has only very limited options for spell-dmg usually and if your single unit takes to long in a harder camp, in a double camp or encountering early harder bosses you are just plain dead. Ofc you have plenty of energy, but beside Soulshatter and Thunderstorm there are not much options for dmg-spells on the one hand, and on the other if you just want to have a carrier for your spells you take units that have a) less cost and b) better orb restrictions (2 Green for Enlighten, 2 Shadow for needed CC and one Red for Disenchant) then an enlightened Batariel. I played only a few matches since patch, but even a common twilight-3-willzapper rpve9 stopped me completely, I was hard-carried by a STONEKIN player! I lost 3 Batas and switched Orbs 5 times, a real fun. The last months 2player 10 I was not able to take out the early Infester camp in 4 tries... I had to give up. Even better players - and I mean I think I was able to push quite a decent Bata - like Damo dropped the deck entirely because it became almost unplayable for random maps. Sure you can hope for some easy bandits or that a Stonekin player carries you, but that is what I described above, the usual everyday Batariel (that was never strong, never fast and dies very often) deck that has nothing in common with what Dutchy cut quite perfect in his Bata-guide. Literally everybody that I know dropped this deck, to say it works still is just plain unrealistic. May we ask instead you for a replay to prove your statements? I do not often agree with Fundus, since he presents his opinion of very exaggerated, but here do not only I agree, but everybody that I have spoken with since the patch. And you may imagine I know quite some decent rpve players. I would not even agree with his statement that you should not nerf any cards at all but only buff unused cards - hell and you guys did that and you did a great job there. But don't get me wrong, Fundus, your legit opinion ofc. But the goal to get the Bata deck a tier down was failed sadly, it moved into lower tier fun-decks and is less viable as some of those

9M is what I have already over, Gold is unsinkable after a while

"Warum liegt hier Stroh herum?" Probably a gag that only Germans will understand, but I'm so bold because of the large German community: "Why is there hay lying around?"

Due to the high numbers (3 years, over 300k bfp) I assumed a full collection (all promos, all x4) was meant and that is what I refered to. A collection x1 (with several charged up decks in addition) can be build up very fast thanks to the achievements. What does take some time (and I liked it) is to get those x4 copies of each card.

I don't trade, don't even like that at all (all want fast bfp from flipping cards, nobody wants to pay the price). Can assure you that it is way less then 3years cause I achieved it and don't even play on daily basis anymore. I was even most unlucky with Promos draw only one, won one and had to buy all of the rest myself (tip - never buy them on the market, be patient and you can save a big pile of bfp) Focus on a few decks you like to play first and then build up from there. Even for the normal cards I'd say: Be patient, observe trade chat and market and then once you think you have a feeling for the price ask for your price in chat. Never see the current market "price" as a value, therefore we have too much traders around. So in conclusion I can say: It is achiveable for normal players and it should take way less then 3 years.

We did discuss and this is what we came up with If a unit would be rated higher if it shines more in one mode (rpve, cpve) it got the higher tier. S - Absolute powercreeps that you can almost not pick if playing pure fire A - Obvious picks in their decks and strong first choices B - More niche, but very good cards that are usefull in many situations C - Alternative picks that are weaker as C+ but still viable sometimes D - Either cards that are rarely playable or that have very, very few niche use-cases F - just plain useless (in pve) If you want more reasoning for a certain card you can see that probably here:

Hey mate! Just watching your video and got to put one question in between. Pure Fire is beside Bandit my most beloved Faction (~350 Pure Fire matches) and I really need to go into deep here 😄 Just to clarify, you are speaking sole about PvE, that is clear. But do you refer only to pure Fire Decks here, or to fire cards in any splashed environment? (You often speak of pure fire but sometimes it sounds like you are considering spashes too) Would you mind to share your tierlist set so that we can make a tierlist ourselfes? I would probably like to make a short Video or stream on this one to share some more thoughts and ideas, but only if you don't mind. PS: Rated Above Average, since Fire got really a bit more solid with the last changes.

Okay, then I'll make a start. First let me say that I'm not having a particularly good day, don't put too much stock in my single opinion. Haven't played much lately and seem a bit rusty in general. I have only tested 2 things seriously the last 2 days this was: The Batariel deck has simply slipped into the middle class in my opinion, sure you can still play it, but it's a run-of-the-mill deck like you mostly see in random groups anyway (wrong orbs; hardly any, no and/or wrong buffs and there's then a single Bata running around that actually only has enlightenment in common with the usual buffed Bata deck). On stronger maps, the burn is too weak to clear necessary threats in time and it dies quickly these days when the camps are a bit harder. Too bad, I'm curious whether the better players can still get something out of here, from the first feeling the deck unfortunately falls completely out of the meta. Possibly further a Speedrun alternative on very easy Bandit maps. The second thing I looked at is the Twilight Deck, unfortunately I find here (at least from meta point of view) not much new. The dragon buff as well as the creeper buff are nice, but nothing more - the Abo Spelldeck remains the king in the ring. Nightshade in T3 is a possibility, but I suspect that this will remain more of a casual approach, but finally nice to have the alternative, although especially here Twilight T3 already had 2 strong units. But since XL are always very popular, the masses will be happy and probably grab here. A more Unit based Twilight deck will be a bit stronger with the patch, but thanks to the Nox Cloud and the Creeper Buff, the Abo deck has increased to the same extent. The transformation overhaul has no relevance to me so far in the pve, in fact I had to look up what else changed there in the patch notes. As before, the slot gain because of the "internal" Breeding Ground remains the main advantage for me here. All in all, I think there is unfortunately more work in here than you can feel in the Twilight deck 😞 I hope Twilight is not yet finished here, although I can imagine that the PvP impact is significantly greater. My conclusion: So far the patch that gives me the least pleasure. The Buffed Bata deck has slipped more than 1 tier imo and after the Bandit rework I had hoped for a little bit more with Twilight, but I don't want to be unfair, I realize how much time and effort is put into this. The small changes to Spells, Units are very nice and please me very well, including the nerfs of Decomposer and Frenetic. (The revisions to the buildings also read very nice, only I never actually play them ^^) I thank you very much for your work, hope it's not brazen to hope for something more in Twilight. Ahhhh - wait - one thing I have almost forgotten. Pure Fire I've also been playing since the patch, and it feels really nice. The overdue boost in sustain from both the deck and NPC side (aka Dancer rework) feel good and make the deck a lot more rounded. Moloch normal speed when? 😛 mostly translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Great one! ❤️

Very good attitude imo

Slow, bad for some of your teammates, not good agains flyers and slow. Nothing crazy bout it and hopefully get fixed soon (my pc can't stand it if someone makes too much) Edit: Wheel does not stack good with other buffs, you sure that it stacks with the crystal?

45mins in a map that good players/decks manage in 10-15mins seems like a freaking lot time. 21mins in a common BG9 that can be done even with pure decks (that are nice but usually not suuper speedy) in 10-13mins is already a lot time for experiments. Else it would be like Coco said, auto wins even if you have just some random cards. And not every card must be viable in every game mode. And this mode is still about beating the enemys. Only in 4p 10s I'm still for 2-5mins more time, as it is hard enough with meta decks on some maps, a few mins more could enable a few other decks what would be nice. But this suggestion was already made.