Damo

Amen.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.
Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.
Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.
Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game
Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.

So first of all: I don't want to talk completely badly about what has been implemented here. I think that the new Reward System conceptually contains some good approaches.
In my humble opinion, this could have been a great addition to the old quests (especially the booster quest). 
But I still don't see how it can replace the old system in a meaningful, long-term, and above all sustainable way.
The market could have been kept alive by the daily boosters, while players will have the additional opportunity to earn extra Bfp by grinding whichever gamemode they like.
Why take away the daily boosters from the players, which are essentially the last bastion of the already rotten market?
I'll second that.
What could be better in the last few weeks than to take half an hour of time during the home office lunch breaks to play some battleground. That was rounded off by opening the booster!
This great experience is now completely lost. 
Another problem that I have with the current version of the new rewards is that daily active players will be punished additionally if they don't get their 60 minutes per day.
If the Daily Boost is not played down to 0 BFP, the next day only 100 will be added to the pool. 
Normal players who played their half hour or less per day for the Booster this system takes away all the financial basis to be able to play the game at a reasonable level at all.
In what world is that "a bit much"? The sense of progress for new players is already low and will now simply slowed down even further. 
This can't be seriously the idea behind all this. Slow down the process of getting cards until it takes months to assemble individual decks, under the pretext of generating long-term motivation.
Most players I know enjoy playing with full decks and being rewarded for achievements rather than being left behind with semi-constructed decks for what feels like an eternity.
 
Last but not least, I've taken some time to look up the prices of some of my battleground decks and listed how long it takes for each deck to purchase a single charge for each card in the deck broken down into "Quests + Daily" (400 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + One Reserve" (600 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + Full Reserves" (880 Bfp per day).
Small note: This would be "60 minutes", "260 minutes" and "540 minutes" per day 
I did not even include common cards in the prices.  The prices are taken from the market place today (~17:00 CEST). Fire Spell Support (Fire -> Nature -> Fire -> Fire):  4260 Bfp per charge
5 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes per day 7 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes per day 10 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day Grimvine + Ships (Nature -> Shadow -> Shadow -> Frost):  9660 Bfp per charge
11 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes 16 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes 21 days (Quests und Daily) - 60 minutes per day Batariel Deck (Fire -> Shadow -> Nature -> Nature -> Shadow ): 13440 Bfp per charge 
15 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes 22 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes 34 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day edit: Just wanted to mention that by fully charging the Batariel deck by playing 540 minutes per day you'd end up playing 540 hours (22.5 days) in 2 straight months => possible ≠ desirable.
To sum up at this point: 
The normal rewards are too few.  The Grind is not worth it at all. At the latest after the reset, the market will collapse like a house of cards, because there are not enough cards to satisfy the players' deck requests and very few of them want to buy boosters to gamble with the very last remaining money. @Loriens Yeah, that's indeed nice and neat. But unfortunately it is a fact that a superior proportion of the most expensive cards in the game are among those with a single charge.
But yes, basically I'm on your side on this one. It's definitely gonna bring a little relief!
 

So first of all: I don't want to talk completely badly about what has been implemented here. I think that the new Reward System conceptually contains some good approaches.
In my humble opinion, this could have been a great addition to the old quests (especially the booster quest). 
But I still don't see how it can replace the old system in a meaningful, long-term, and above all sustainable way.
The market could have been kept alive by the daily boosters, while players will have the additional opportunity to earn extra Bfp by grinding whichever gamemode they like.
Why take away the daily boosters from the players, which are essentially the last bastion of the already rotten market?
I'll second that.
What could be better in the last few weeks than to take half an hour of time during the home office lunch breaks to play some battleground. That was rounded off by opening the booster!
This great experience is now completely lost. 
Another problem that I have with the current version of the new rewards is that daily active players will be punished additionally if they don't get their 60 minutes per day.
If the Daily Boost is not played down to 0 BFP, the next day only 100 will be added to the pool. 
Normal players who played their half hour or less per day for the Booster this system takes away all the financial basis to be able to play the game at a reasonable level at all.
In what world is that "a bit much"? The sense of progress for new players is already low and will now simply slowed down even further. 
This can't be seriously the idea behind all this. Slow down the process of getting cards until it takes months to assemble individual decks, under the pretext of generating long-term motivation.
Most players I know enjoy playing with full decks and being rewarded for achievements rather than being left behind with semi-constructed decks for what feels like an eternity.
 
Last but not least, I've taken some time to look up the prices of some of my battleground decks and listed how long it takes for each deck to purchase a single charge for each card in the deck broken down into "Quests + Daily" (400 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + One Reserve" (600 Bfp per day), "Quests + Daily + Full Reserves" (880 Bfp per day).
Small note: This would be "60 minutes", "260 minutes" and "540 minutes" per day 
I did not even include common cards in the prices.  The prices are taken from the market place today (~17:00 CEST). Fire Spell Support (Fire -> Nature -> Fire -> Fire):  4260 Bfp per charge
5 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes per day 7 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes per day 10 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day Grimvine + Ships (Nature -> Shadow -> Shadow -> Frost):  9660 Bfp per charge
11 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes 16 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes 21 days (Quests und Daily) - 60 minutes per day Batariel Deck (Fire -> Shadow -> Nature -> Nature -> Shadow ): 13440 Bfp per charge 
15 days (Quests + Daily + Full Reserves) - 540 minutes 22 days (Quests + Daily + One Reserve) - 260 minutes 34 days (Quests + Daily) - 60 minutes per day edit: Just wanted to mention that by fully charging the Batariel deck by playing 540 minutes per day you'd end up playing 540 hours (22.5 days) in 2 straight months => possible ≠ desirable.
To sum up at this point: 
The normal rewards are too few.  The Grind is not worth it at all. At the latest after the reset, the market will collapse like a house of cards, because there are not enough cards to satisfy the players' deck requests and very few of them want to buy boosters to gamble with the very last remaining money. @Loriens Yeah, that's indeed nice and neat. But unfortunately it is a fact that a superior proportion of the most expensive cards in the game are among those with a single charge.
But yes, basically I'm on your side on this one. It's definitely gonna bring a little relief!
 

Amen.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.
Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.
Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.
Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game
Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.

I concur with most things above, just wanted to say I will happily comment on the particular  topic above.  Have done so in posts in the past and now again:
Infect now cost a shitload of BFPs and will so even after reset, I am dead sure...why, with fewer boosters opened market availabilty will be even less (I mentioned this somewhere in the forum, to get 50 people have Infect fully upgraded requires 66000 boosters to be opened), eg. supply will be less and demand high. Also, I am not so sure people will spend 1000 BFPs on a shadow booster for a slim chance to get an Infect. Tried one yesterday and drew a Plague as rare and Shadow Phoenix as uncommon, so wasting around 700 BFPs on that one...
Have said it in the past and I will say it again, slowness will never be a successful attribute of this game, grinding like crazy to get cards, upgrades and such is only fun to a certain extent, crossing that bored out of your senses boundary will have people rage quit not being able to successfully beat an rPvE level 6 map and then not ever opening up the game again...my experience tells me, game is most fun when you have access to all cards that matter and to me that is when it starts not ends (multiple people in the forum wrongly believes that game ends once you have all cards...)
// Ponni

Hi there,

this might be my first post, because even if I didn't like any of the other decisions made for that game, it was still playable.
For me this project is now over. I have absolutely zero motivation to grind that small amount of bfp each day.
The daily booster was a great way to fill my break while working at home, but now it's just not rewarding anymore.
 
I think this really describes it the best.
 
So again,
farewell BattleForge - maybe this time forever

I agree!
1 Thing i just want to mention. 
the game is super fun if you have all the cards you need for speedruns etc. but a grind is too. But with the current system i could make a super complex callculation if you want (It will take me some time and it will not be super accruate), to visualize how long it would take a player to even get to all the necessary cards for a bata deck (with current prices), if someone would be able to get the 880 bfp a day. I also would have to make some assumptions about how many of the ultra rare and necassary cards will be available in the market (Enlightment, infect, mine, nether warp).

But as it is now the grind is way to long to even consider to play some of the hard 4p maps (Speedruns) within the first few months.  For the BG Motm it would be quite funny to see how fast players can beat the maps with unoptimized decks and nearly no upgrades. My experinece since I started playing in April 2020. was that i was able to get the cards i wanted quite fast (there were already many cards available in the market) and i did not even sell more than 10 booster in the time which would have speed up my progress. I now have all cards i want for BG speedruns and i had to play 30 minutes a day for that. I can spare 30 minutes a day but i cant spare 2 hours+ for a little faster BFP gain when there is a non functioning market and the card supply is extremly low (after the reset i assume this will happen). 
 
Concluding:
1. the grind seems to be way to long and boring since you wont be able to beat fun maps or grind some speedruns to pass the time
2. The daily playtime is way to long for the amount of bfp you get
3. the new Boosters need some changes and there need to be adjustments so the market will still be supplied with cards (who plays 2+ hours to buy some overpriced cards or roll the dice and buy a booster)
4. Most players wont have the motivation to play each day since you need to beat too many maps too even get to your bfp (long times for team search not included)
Possible Solutions need to be discussed with players who want to grind a lot if you are able to implement the PVP changes these players dont really need to be implemented in the discussion since fair PVP is available for everyone

I like the idea for the catch up mechanic but with the predicted market after reset it will take months too even get a few important cards if some can maybe only play 1 or 2 times a week. 
 
i feel kind of sad since i have a lot of time right now but dont even have the motivation to play for so long even if i have all the cards i want. I think the daily Booster was just way too fun but spending the BFP earned over hours to open 1 or 2 is just not what i want to do with my time. 

Hello there,
pretty much has already been said by the 2. I would just tell you some more or less accurate numbers (As i understand it) and the way to achieve them. 
A daily player with the goal to get the maximum BFP would need to play 1hr for 250 bfp + 100 booster discount + probably both quests completed = 400 bfp and a booster would be only 350(since there is no real reson to buy the other boosters imo) but who would want to spend the 400 hard earned BFP on a booster? Even if it is only 350? The average Booster content is worth something like 200-250 (please correct me if i am wrong). 
After achieving the daily boost you got the reserve which contains 200 BFP and Drains pretty slow just by the feel of it. Lets say you are able to play each day right after the new daily boost Is available for 2 hours (which by the way is at midday and most of the players who play much right now still have a job and are not able to do so) but for the sake of the calculation: 
you get your daily boost after 1 hour And probably completed the quests (400 BFP) after that you drain your reserve completly (+200BFP) then after aprox 9 hours you can start draining your reserve again If that takes you 1 hour you get + 200 again. And the next time you get your daily boost you can drain it again. But for the raw calculation: 250 + 150 for the quests + 20 per hour on one day = 880 if your reserve never reaches its maximum.
Thats doesent sound bad because in the old system if you sold your booster for 420 and completed both quest which was possible in 30 minutes you got 570 BFP. 
The problem in my Opinion is that i dont see a way to play so much at such wired times each day If i have my usual work week.  Sure i get a few bfp more but the hours i need to invest are crazy high. 
Furthermore i know many players who during the week logged in just to play 30 minutes to get their booster and the quests. Maybe on 1 workday they would play for much more than the 30 minutes. And i think these players wont be as motivated to play for 1,5+ hour longer each day Just to get daily boost and drain the reserve once (old system 570 BFP in 30 minutes/ new system 600 BFP in 2h or more). 
 
A big part of my playing experience that motivated me to play every day was in fact the daily booster. 
 
Additionally if i remember correctly a big argument for the catch up mechanic and the slower progression was that the pvp players didnt want to be far behind if they couldnt play as much. Since you announced that you are planning to make pvp playable for everybody with equal decks without the much feared grind that argument about the catch up mechanic and the slower progression overall becomes worthless.
You want slower progression to keep the game interesting for all players for many years. I understand that, but i feel kind of scammed now that i need to player several hours more each day just to progress a little faster than in the old system. 

New point: If you dont complete the daily boost to a certain point you only get 100BFP the following day. So thats pretty bad if you really cant play the 60 minutes!
 
60 minutes are pretty long since if you decent at the game most maps dont take you that long and to find players to play with also takes alot time. So the time to get the daily boost is more likley 75-90 minutes 
And i dont even want to talk about the economy after the reset because i cant look into the future but what i expect too happen doesnt make me happy. 
 
Lets hope to find a slollution that makes everyone happy. 
Have a good day everyone
Regards,
BlueBerryBoy

Amen.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.
Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.
Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.
Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game
Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.

Amen.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.
Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.
Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.
Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game
Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.

Recent BFP Changes that reward 250 BFP for 60 minutes instead of a Booster for 30 minutes are Bad for Daily Players.
Before the changes took place players would have gained 2 boosters over 2 days after playing 30 minutes each day which is worth 900 BFP (for 60 minutes of game play).
Now, with the recent changes players have to play 60 minutes each day (for 2 days) in order to gain 500 BFP (120 minutes total of game play).
If you add the 100 discount for a booster that you can claim the reward is actually 600 BFP.
So not only players have to play 120 minutes over two days (instead of 60 minutes), players end up making even less - 600 BFP vs 900 before for half the time.
I understand that the new system is trying to help none-daily players to earn more, and that is fine.
But why reduce the reward for daily players? and by so much?
At the very least allow players to earn 250 BFP for 30 minutes of gameplay instead of 60 minutes, and then add more (reduced) reward for 30 additional minutes.
Also, booster are NOT worth 450 BFP.
Their average worth is more like 200 BFP.
Therefore, the daily Booster discount should be at least 250 BFP instead of 100 discount.
These recent changes will only discourage daily players from playing every day.
I play most days and I am very discouraged.
 

Amen.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the following: 
Many players (probably most) don't even buy boosters (because mathematically it's not worth it) and I don't think that will change because you get the boosters 100 Bfp cheaper after one hour of playing. 
With the old reward system cards where basically forced into the market with the Daily Boosters. This will not happen anymore.
I would strongly suspect that there will be less cards in circulation and they will be much more expensive.
Daily active players should not outpace less active players. I can fully understand the approach. But why is this solved by effectively punishing the players who are active every day?
In order to get the maximum profit out of the new reward system, you would have to play one hour before work, use up the reserve pool and continue playing ten hours later.
Last but not least:
Back then we had those neat 1 Bfp Boosters containing either a common or uncommon card. 
Due to the high spread of cheap cards, new players with little capital were able to buy at least the foundation of a good deck very cheaply. That was great!
Now you guys came up with a "similar idea": The 1000 bfp boosters.
Whoever came up with that idea: Congratulations! You did clearly not understand the current market situation of this game
Why do you even bother to give out fair rewards to players? I don't understand it and I probably never will.