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The Aquanix

Executor Rework

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On the topic of making underwhelming cards, or those who are simply outperformed by another card that does the exact same job but better, i'd like to suggest a potential rework to a card i used to enjoy greatly in the past but realized that it's simply inferior to another card.

The Executor. This card on the surface just seems to be a Medium Wrathblades with an identical ability, not much different. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but it is simply outperformed by the Nox Trooper, who, while not dealing as much damage per hit simply has the huge advantage of a ranged attack AND a charged attack that can do massive damage. To top it all off, it is an M counter who's ability will not hinder it strength-wise.

I'd love to see the Executor, among many other underwhelming or outperformed cards see use in gameplay, even if the use is niche i feel the card should at least be very strong in that niche situation to make it stand out and be effective. As such, i'd like to promote the following change.

360192021_NewExecutor.png.f067bb1a076d5a92653c8ba29f18eaab.png

 

New Ability: Execute

  • Costs 50 Power.
  • Unit loses 450 HP by activating this ability. Cannot activate if it has less than 450 HP.
  • Unit executes the target enemy, instantly killing it.
  • Can only be cast on enemy units whos current HP is ≤ 50% of its total HP.
  • Can only be cast on ground units with a maximum of 2 orbs and 90 power costs. Cannot be casted on XL Units.

Execute could turn the tides of fate for the Executor and bring this card to a new position of use. With the ability to kill an injured enemy up to a point instantly, this could see some great use and make it stand out comparative to its other T1 counterparts. Who knows, this could be one of many things to bring underused and underwhelming cards back into the light of the new sun!

Update: Due to great and considered suggestions by others, the ability concept has been tweaked to cost the unit more health and require less than 50% of the total HP to be left for an execution to be used. This should prevent the ability from being too strong by allowing the executor to instantly destroy a dazed unit, as well as enabling simple spells like eruption, even at U0 to damage the Executor too greatly for it to cast the ability. Additionally, the power cost maximum has been reduced to 90 to prevent units like the Sunderer at U3 from being vulnerable.

Thanks to RadicalX, ImaginaryNumb3r, and Eirias for their wonderful suggestions.

Edited by The Aquanix
Applied wonderful suggestions to balance the ability concept better.
Cikibarikonei likes this

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Pretty cool idea to give the card an own identity that really fits to an Executor.

That said with these numbers a free execute would be quite broken in 2v2 against stuff like Lifeweaving Sunderer and also may be a problem with dazed units as they are spawned with 50% hp. Adding tools for the stronger factions is quite a problem. Nature (in 1v1s) and Frost (1v1 & 2v2) do have a huge problem to keep up anyways.

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5 minutes ago, RadicalX said:

Pretty cool idea to give the card an own identity that really fits to an Executor.

That said with these numbers a free execute would be quite broken in 2v2 against stuff like Lifeweaving Sunderer and also may be a problem with dazed units as they are spawned with 50% hp. Adding tools for the stronger factions is quite a problem. Nature (in 1v1s) and Frost (1v1 & 2v2) do have a huge problem to keep up anyways.

I'd be happy to hear your suggestions on how the ability could be better balanced. I can even edit the post and quote your suggestion.

Perhaps i'll look into nature and frost cards and look into how they can be better balanced as well.

Edited by The Aquanix

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The biggest problem I see in Executor is not it's ability. The problem is the abundance of (ranged) M counters for Shadow T1. Forsaken and Nox are both fantastic M-counters and Skeleton Warrior's also perform this role well. All of these units are commonly used and Executor can't take away their key roles. So why bother with having another M counter? For Executor to be worth taking, it's ability would need to be borderline overpowered and this is not desirable.

Instead I suggest this: Make Executor an S-counter.

Executor could be an alternative to Dreadcharger who trades "swift" for "less power cost". In pvp, Dreadcharger would still be a favourite because it's swift and has amazing synergy with Forsaken. However, Executor with S-counter would make for a superb pve unit. You can use Executor as front-line tanks that kill S-units, while your Forsaken/Nox Troopers kill the M-sized ones.

It would make for a greater beginner card, since it is common and would combo well with Forsken.

The goal should be to make each card useful, even if it is only a niche. If a small change can make a unit useful, you should always prefer that to a more exotic rework.

Edited by ImaginaryNumb3r
Navarr and Eirias like this

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Maybe make it an L counter that passivly deals 50% more damage to units below 50% health? Gives shadow some options against Fire tier 1 rushing with a dazed sunderer.

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Like a lot of people have said, Executor is not good because it's slightly worse at something that shadow is already good at. And t1 is very well balanced (esp fire vs shadow) so doing something like making executor an L counter would really upset that balance (because in early t1, fire needs to be careful of mass forsaken dropping a well, and in late t1 shadow needs to be careful of sunderer. In some situations the only way to "defend" a well is to counterrush and drop one of your opponent's).

 

Giving the executor an interesting power is best as long as it's still below the average power level for shadow t1 cards. As long as you keep a 2 orb, 100 power limit, it wouldn't be THAT busted because I can't think of any powerful cards that it eliminates (sunderer, deep one, mountaineer all cost >100 power, so the strongest 100 power ground card is scythe fiends?). But still, I think it should only execute cards that have <50% hp remaining, and it should probably reduce the executor's hp by more than 300 (so that even a U0 eruption would reduce the health enough that the ability can't go off).

More thematically, the executor could only execute cards that are cc'd? Ofc that's mostly making it good for doubles, but doubles balance is less fine-tuned than 1v1s.\\

 

EDIT: I forgot sunderer because 100 power at U3. yeah, in that case the limit should probably be like 90 power, which as I think about, basically really improves the nature matchup....

Edited by Eirias

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1 hour ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Nightguard is already a hard-counter to Sunderer, which is also anti-L and a core Shadow T1 unit for pvp. As anti-L, Executioner would only be a second choice at best and bring hardly anything new.

Nightguard starts with her ability on cooldown and has poor attack. She counters expensive units in general, usally in tier 2 but is poor against a sunderer getting spawned right net to your well. 

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3 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

The biggest problem I see in Executor is not it's ability. The problem is the abundance of (ranged) M counters for Shadow T1. Forsaken and Nox are both fantastic M-counters and Skeleton Warrior's also perform this role well. All of these units are commonly used and Executor can't take away their key roles. So why bother with having another M counter? For Executor to be worth taking, it's ability would need to be borderline overpowered and this is not desirable.

Instead I suggest this: Make Executor an S-counter.

Executor could be an alternative to Dreadcharger who trades "swift" for "less power cost". In pvp, Dreadcharger would still be a favourite because it's swift and has amazing synergy with Forsaken. However, Executor with S-counter would make for a superb pve unit. You can use Executor as front-line tanks that kill S-units, while your Forsaken/Nox Troopers kill the M-sized ones.

It would make for a greater beginner card, since it is common and would combo well with Forsken.

The goal should be to make each card useful, even if it is only a niche. If a small change can make a unit useful, you should always prefer that to a more exotic rework.

I wanted to address your position personally. While it is not a bad idea by any means, i do have to object to making the Executor an S-Counter for one reason.

The Wrathblades already fulfill this job, even being able to put out similar damage when at U2. While it is definitely a cheap tanking unit, it would need to be U3 to surpass the wrathblades in life points. It simply would be bordering on the wrathblades position very closely if it were an S-Counter. Not to mention, the Dreadcharger has identical stats to the Executor along with the same lifepoint upgrades. With the added benefit of swift AND reaping at U1 the dreadcharger simply outperforms the executor in just about anything.

The only advantage executor would have is being cheaper by 10 power. Which in and of itself could be useful but i think that being just an M wrathblades with an S counter steps too far onto the role that the Dreadcharger already fills, without being able to compete with its swift capability.

However, i can sympathize and agree with your position as well. Having another M Counter when there is already 3 is quite annoying, but moving it to be an L counter would step it onto the territory of the Nightguard, and giving it an S Counter would just make it a slightly larger wrathblades and a slightly cheaper but less effective dreadcharger. It wouldn't really bring the executor out of its hole, even in PVE except perhaps as a "I have nothing better" card.

Edited by The Aquanix

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On 12/12/2018 at 7:45 PM, The Aquanix said:

I wanted to address your position personally. While it is not a bad idea by any means, i do have to object to making the Executor an S-Counter for one reason.

The Wrathblades already fulfill this job, even being able to put out similar damage when at U2. While it is definitely a cheap tanking unit, it would need to be U3 to surpass the wrathblades in life points. It simply would be bordering on the wrathblades position very closely if it were an S-Counter. Not to mention, the Dreadcharger has identical stats to the Executor along with the same lifepoint upgrades. With the added benefit of swift AND reaping at U1 the dreadcharger simply outperforms the executor in just about anything.

The only advantage executor would have is being cheaper by 10 power. Which in and of itself could be useful but i think that being just an M wrathblades with an S counter steps too far onto the role that the Dreadcharger already fills, without being able to compete with its swift capability.

 However, i can sympathize and agree with your position as well. Having another M Counter when there is already 3 is quite annoying, but moving it to be an L counter would step it onto the territory of the Nightguard, and giving it an S Counter would just make it a slightly larger wrathblades and a slightly cheaper but less effective dreadcharger. It wouldn't really bring the executor out of its hole, even in PVE except perhaps as a "I have nothing better" card.

Thanks for detailed reply. Honestly, I don't think that Executor is needed in competitive play in any way. Being an M-counter makes the unit redundant and this probably applies to S-counter as well. Making it an L-counter could make shadow T1 too versatile and give it a situational advantage against fire. I'm against interfering with Shadow T1 for no good reason, because it already is very strong and mostly balanced (*cough* Phasetower Spam).

However, my intention for Executioner was to make it a valid choice for pve. I think the "I have nothing better" card is not a bad argument in this case, because getting 2-4 charges of Dreadcharger is expensive and takes a long time for a new player to get. Even further, Dreadcharger and Executor have the same stats, while the former is 20% more expensive. Dreadcharger adds more utility, but you also have to pay the price for it.

I wonder... does anybody really play Wrathblades? I don't think they see much play one way or the other, so I wouldn't see them as the limiting factor. Rather, I'd try to think of a buff/rework to their ability so they become a more interesting choice.

 

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5 hours ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:

Thanks for detailed reply. Honestly, I don't think that Executor is needed in competitive play in any way. Being an M-counter makes the unit redundant and this probably applies to S-counter as well. Making it an L-counter could make shadow T1 too versatile and give it a situational advantage against fire. I'm against interfering with Shadow T1 for no good reason, because it already is very strong and mostly balanced (*cough* Phasetower Spam).

However, my intention for Executioner was to make it a valid choice for pve. I think the "I have nothing better" card is not a bad argument in this case, because getting 2-4 charges of Dreadcharger is expensive and takes a long time for a new player to get. Even further, Dreadcharger and Executor have the same stats, while the former is 20% more expensive. Dreadcharger adds more utility, but you also have to pay the price for it.

I wonder... does anybody really play Wrathblades? I don't think they see much play one way or the other, so I wouldn't see them as the limiting factor. Rather, I'd try to think of a buff/rework to their ability so they become a more interesting choice.

 

Happy to oblige. I will agree that shadow T1 is incredibly strong, i'm just looking to make executor stand out more viably in any gamemode, even if its just PVE.

I usually never see wrathblades played much, people usually just spam forsaken with nox troopers.

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I think you're overcomplicating the ability with cost and orb restrictions, fixed health cost and killing units below 50%. Just make it able to kill any units with less hp than it at the cost of the same amount of hp and some power. If you can kill a strong unit with it it was already low on hp to begin with. I could see this being used on speed runs for fast clear of early weak mobs. I think something like 50 power cost upgrading to reduce it by 5/5/10 for 30 cost at U3 would be nice.

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