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QOL and multiple accounts


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  • some units spawn additional units, such as deepfang. it can be very annoying mid fight trying to target these and add them to squad so you can control them. making these units automatically group with their parent unit would be great.
  • monument placement on 2 man battlegrounds is slightly annoying. having monuments placed symmetrically on the map for both players would make this a far more enjoyable experience. currently whoever is in position 2 spawning on the side with 3 monuments is at a major disadvantage. my suggestion is 3 monuments on each side with a double monument spot at a middle joined location for both players.
  • opening chests is currently a major hassle and seems buggy. hopefully this can be improved eventually.
  • right click option on cards to search it on the auction house would make pricing much more player friendly
  • currently by the game rules it shows having multiple accounts is a ban-able offense. with the way the game is currently setup I feel this rule needs to be removed and rewards should be improved. essentially playing loses a ton of value when you have already completed achievements and run every daily. players want to be able to progress when they play and feel rewarded, if they do not they will not play. basically banning players who want to make a second account is only punishing the players who simply want to play the game more. if more achievements and goals for players to reach are added to the game players will be sufficiently occupied with their primary account and will not have a need to make multiple accounts in the first place, which would also help keep players around since they have a goal instead of just grinding miscellaneous missions/battlegrounds for BF/gold endlessly.

EDIT: added more

  • remove the option to pick between pvp/pve daily quests. simply offer more of both to draw players to play both modes.

 

 

Edited by Kilikem
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1 hour ago, Kilikem said:
  • some units spawn additional units, such as deepfang. it can be very annoying mid fight trying to target these and add them to squad so you can control them. making these units automatically group with their parent unit would be great.

This is known, but if remember correctly, it is very hard to fix for some reason. Cultist Master is also one of those units that could use QoL. 

1 hour ago, Kilikem said:
  • monument placement on 2 man battlegrounds is slightly annoying. having monuments placed symmetrically on the map for both players would make this a far more enjoyable experience. currently whoever is in position 2 spawning on the side with 3 monuments is at a major disadvantage. my suggestion is 3 monuments on each side with a double monument spot at a middle joined location for both players.

What map are you talking about specifically? 

1 hour ago, Kilikem said:
  • opening chests is currently a major hassle and seems buggy. hopefully this can be improved eventually.

Chest prevent you from opening them if the unit is doing something (aka fighting) but it is indeed a chore. This is well known though, but also not easy to fix. You have to understand we do not have the source code, so some things that seem obvious to fix can actually be a big puzzle. 

1 hour ago, Kilikem said:
  • right click option on cards to search it on the auction house would make pricing much more player friendly

Would be a nice QoL, we can look into this. 

1 hour ago, Kilikem said:
  • currently by the game rules it shows having multiple accounts is a ban-able offense. with the way the game is currently setup I feel this rule needs to be removed and rewards should be improved. essentially playing loses a ton of value when you have already completed achievements and run every daily. players want to be able to progress when they play and feel rewarded, if they do not they will not play. basically banning players who want to make a second account is only punishing the players who simply want to play the game more. if more achievements and goals for players to reach are added to the game players will be sufficiently occupied with their primary account and will not have a need to make multiple accounts in the first place, which would also help keep players around since they have a goal instead of just grinding miscellaneous missions/battlegrounds for BF/gold endlessly.

We will not remove the second-account=ban rule. The current setup is to give players a headstart with achievements and daily play bonusses. If we allow people to multi-account to grind, this will inflate the auction house. People having more points = cards becoming more expensive = people having to multiaccount or grind even more to catch up. It would only be a short term solution, and not something we want to encourage. 

We are however looking into more achievements and reward options. We also want to reward players more for playing PvP than we currently do. 

Also, you make it sound like the only reason to play the game is to grind/get points. I sure hope you are also playing the game just because you enjoy it? 😉 

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currently by the game rules it shows having multiple accounts is a ban-able offense. with the way the game is currently setup I feel this rule needs to be removed and rewards should be improved. essentially playing loses a ton of value when you have already completed achievements and run every daily. players want to be able to progress when they play and feel rewarded, if they do not they will not play. basically banning players who want to make a second account is only punishing the players who simply want to play the game more. if more achievements and goals for players to reach are added to the game players will be sufficiently occupied with their primary account and will not have a need to make multiple accounts in the first place, which would also help keep players around since they have a goal instead of just grinding miscellaneous missions/battlegrounds for BF/gold endlessly.

Let's take a look at the low effort achievements.

Reserve below 25, which merely takes time but can be done in the background: 6 General Booster

Rogan Kayle, Brannoc, Viridya, Moon together with a couple other cards for pure decks: 1 Frost, Fire, Nature, Shadow Booster each.

Dragonkin: 250 BFP

T4 Buildings: 250 BFP

Shrines: 250 BFP

So we have 10 Boosters with a total Store value of 4700 and 750 extra BFP. If the Boosters got sold to other players at 20 BFP discount, that's 5250 BFP. But of course people wouldn't really need to buy Boosters anymore. They could create new accounts ad infinitum. Each time relatively quickly gaining 10 boosters and 750 BFP.

Say someone had 5 accounts. One main, 4 twinks. That's 30 General Boosters, 20 Mono-color Boosters, 3750 BFP. Just for those achievements alone, which can all be done on a single day. Add to that 2000 BFP each day for dailies and boosts, if the player is so inclined. Hell, just make it 1250 from the boost alone.

Basically, if you would allow multi-accounting, people could grab 10 Boosters each day and have infinite BFP. Doesn't sound like a recipe for healthy progression. Or a healthy economy. Not to mention you wouldn't really get more people playing, you'd just endlessly inflate account numbers.

And you would even IMPROVE rewards ON TOP of allowing multi accounting? In hopes people would focus on one account instead of creating endless trow aways for easy free stuff?

The achievements are both mid-term goals as well as starting boosts. You can do several relatively early to get up to speed for a new account. And some require a bit more investment, so you have things to work towards for a few weeks. Where it falls short is long-term goals, which is also one of the reasons why the original game died. Nonetheless progression is WAY better right now than it ever was. By allowing multi accounting people could endlessly go for the head-start achievements and generate absurd amounts of Boosters and BFP.

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1 hour ago, Cocofang said:

And you would even IMPROVE rewards ON TOP of allowing multi accounting? In hopes people would focus on one account instead of creating endless trow aways for easy free stuff?

it is my opinion banning players for simply making new accounts in order to be able to progress is a bad idea. period. unless the multiple accounts are used to afk pvp yourself for free currency for example. simply improving the reward structure of the game would eliminate players feeling any need for a second account. 

 

1 hour ago, Cocofang said:

Say someone had 5 accounts. One main, 4 twinks. That's 30 General Boosters, 20 Mono-color Boosters, 3750 BFP. Just for those achievements alone, which can all be done on a single day. Add to that 2000 BFP each day for dailies and boosts, if the player is so inclined. Hell, just make it 1250 from the boost alone.

id love to see someone complete the entire game on 5 different accounts in a single day completing all the color/unit specific achievements in a single day. looking at the rankings most missions seem to be around 10-20 minutes+ and the game has 27 missions not to count extra time assembling decks/transfering cards to new accounts ect. basically a full time job working at max efficiency to be able to buy a single promo firedancer perhaps. what is the player doing wrong? actively playing the game? not allowing players to work harder to get stuff quicker will only lead to them doing things like buying from players via black market. 

 

1 hour ago, Majora said:

What map are you talking about specifically? 

random generated 2 player missions.

 

1 hour ago, Majora said:

Chest prevent you from opening them if the unit is doing something (aka fighting) but it is indeed a chore. This is well known though, but also not easy to fix. You have to understand we do not have the source code, so some things that seem obvious to fix can actually be a big puzzle. 

could this restriction be removed entirely perhaps as long as a friendly unit is close? currently it just seems to be very buggy and even with no enemies nearby sometimes it tells you that you cannot open the chest. and of course. I simply wanted to point out my main gripes even if they are fairly obvious to everyone. 

 

2 hours ago, Majora said:

We will not remove the second-account=ban rule. The current setup is to give players a headstart with achievements and daily play bonusses. If we allow people to multi-account to grind, this will inflate the auction house. People having more points = cards becoming more expensive = people having to multiaccount or grind even more to catch up. It would only be a short term solution, and not something we want to encourage. 

people will not only have more points, but more packs as well, meaning more cards and then a drop in price. would this not counteract the increase in BF? currently the players play for pure BF with no pack rewards after completing achievements, right? this means bf continues to come into the market but the extra packs stop being rewarded which players often spend on specific cards instead of fresh boosters. would more boosters in the economy not lower the value over time making it more accessible to new players?

2 hours ago, Majora said:

Also, you make it sound like the only reason to play the game is to grind/get points. I sure hope you are also playing the game just because you enjoy it? 😉 

of course not. but no one likes for gameplay to get stale. lets be honest, grinding out the same missions over and over again for little reward is not exactly exciting gameplay. players like to progress to push for challenges. the things I find fun in a game like this besides PvP is pushing strategy to the max, competing for best times on missions, ect ect. now understand i am a father of 3 children under 2 years old. I do not have unlimited free time to play this game, and when i do have the free time id enjoy being able to use it. but once my daily missions are done, what then? grind the same mission over and over or run randoms for gold? lets be honest, probably no one is pushing standard for best times with their t1/t2 half upgraded units. 

i do enjoy PLAYING this game, but do not forget that putting cards on the board is not the entire game. getting cards, upgrading them, forming new strategies and building a deck out of it is largely what makes the game fun for me. when I have spent my entire play time spending all my resources to upgrade my main deck i hardly would enjoy going and playing another color right now given that I have all common/uncommon starter cards that have 0 upgrades. and if i bring any of these decks into any later missions with friends it will clearly get smashed.

id love to hear what you do for fun with a mid tier deck after you finish daily missions? do you quit pve entirely and try out pvp with free decks? do you see if your t2 werebeasts and t1 shaman can push the top of the standard ladder? or do you endlessly grind for more resource to try and upgrade/get new cards?

i can tell you the general theme of all my other friends playing the game is to do daily missions and bounce out to play other games.

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Reset in december and many have every card , all meta cards 4 time - where could the rewards be bad? I am no big trader or such, just played random stuff

How can one be so impatient...

Edited by Volin
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21 minutes ago, Volin said:

Reset in december and many have every card , all meta cards 4 time - where could the rewards be bad? I am no big trader or such, just played random stuff

How can one be so impatient...

so the point you are making is that in over 7 months people have managed to get the cards? how does this help new players coming into the game feel a sense of progression. maybe I am just ignorant, but id like to do ranked pvp with a deck i create and customize myself. now how am i supposed to do this without grinding many hours of the game or using the same free pvp deck over and over again. i seem to be quite literally gated from even having a real chance in pvp seeing as how a player with a massive collection can put together a custom deck potentially far stronger than any of the free ones. but because i would like to be able to play the game to progress to this point i am impatient? i am simply saying rewards are not up to par and its makes players want to multi-account for better rewards, which will then lead to a ban for literally just playing the game more.

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Single decks are build pretty decent, there are a lot of achievements (mentioned above) to have a good start, and finally there are nice 120 decks for pvp aviable, that you can take as a base to customize them.

Who seeks a way will find it. 

And getting pretty everything (!) in 6-12months seems reasonable to me

 

 

Edited by Volin
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3 hours ago, Kilikem said:
6 hours ago, Cocofang said:

Say someone had 5 accounts. One main, 4 twinks. That's 30 General Boosters, 20 Mono-color Boosters, 3750 BFP. Just for those achievements alone, which can all be done on a single day. Add to that 2000 BFP each day for dailies and boosts, if the player is so inclined. Hell, just make it 1250 from the boost alone.

id love to see someone complete the entire game on 5 different accounts in a single day completing all the color/unit specific achievements in a single day. looking at the rankings most missions seem to be around 10-20 minutes+ and the game has 27 missions not to count extra time assembling decks/transfering cards to new accounts ect. basically a full time job working at max efficiency to be able to buy a single promo firedancer perhaps. what is the player doing wrong? actively playing the game? not allowing players to work harder to get stuff quicker will only lead to them doing things like buying from players via black market. 

Those numbers come from only the by-the-by achievements that I listed. Not finishing all maps on expert. Not boosting your deck level to 120. Just the straight-forward ones I listed. There are relatively quick maps that can be done with any color, especially on Standard. That means in like an hour or less all the Mono-color Boosters are done. The T4 Building, Shrine and Dragonkin achievement can all be done in one go on a single map, netting 750 BFP in, say, 20-25 minutes. After that it's time to simply drain the reserve, which can be done in the background. Could also just skip the much longer below-25 achievement and haul 3 instead of 6 Boosters. Might even be more time efficient. One such haul per day for each account.

And once all those twinks are set-up, they could be drained for their daily boost and Booster discount without any effort at all.

Might as well just play on the testserver where all cards are unlocked.

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2 hours ago, Cocofang said:

And once all those twinks are set-up, they could be drained for their daily boost and Booster discount without any effort at all.

but it is effort. you have to physically play the game for the time required. not everyone can sit around on 20 accounts and grind out every mission every day.

 

ill simply repeat what i said above and ask you the same thing 

6 hours ago, Kilikem said:

id love to hear what you do for fun with a mid tier deck after you finish daily missions? do you quit pve entirely and try out pvp with free decks? do you see if your t2 werebeasts and t1 shaman can push the top of the standard ladder? or do you endlessly grind for more resource to try and upgrade/get new cards?

if you are playing right now on an account with mid tier cards what are you doing in this game aside from grinding out currency as fast as possible to upgrade your cards?

i simply want this game to be better and have more players. and I can tell you as a player when i complete my daily missions and such i feel very little to no incentive to play the game, this just simply seems bad for overall player retention and i am only offering my suggestions. i play with 8 of my friends now and aside from fooling around on some PvP the general consensus right now is do the daily missions, then bounce out.

Edited by Kilikem
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23 minutes ago, Kilikem said:

but it is effort. you have to physically play the game for the time required.

No, you don't ... go figure that one out yourself.

As to what I am doing, when I feel like it, I am building some whacky off-meta decks and approach problems from a different angle than the established meta way while still staying within the games boundaries. There has to be a balance between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation at some point. Feels like you want to lean way more heavily on the extrinsic side.

You know, how about we try to steer this entire thing into a more productive direction because, frankly, allowing multi accounting would undermine the entire progression system. You would then have to rebalance everything under the assumption of everyone having multiple accounts, multiplying their progression speed. Which, in turn, would royally bumfuck anyone that isn't twinking. At which point, as a side effect, you'd also start seeing people burn out from having to manage multiple accounts. A silly notion all around. As such it simply will not happen so you are wasting your keystrokes.

Instead, give some ideas on how to improve the current progression system, offering interesting long-term goals that don't trivialize card and upgrade acquisition yet provide a constant, juicy carrot on a stick that's worth striving for. Also, take into account that people need something to worthwhile to do with their resources when they collection is nearing completion or they have all they want. But do it under the premise of only having one account.

Edited by Cocofang
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5 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

As to what I am doing, when I feel like it, I am building some whacky off-meta decks and approach problems from a different angle than the established meta way while still staying within the games boundaries.

so how long does trying to do missions in weird ways keep you occupied? approx how much time do you spend in the game after all your daily missions are complete? i would think the point i am trying to make is a simple one. if players do not feel rewarded or like they are making meaningful progression they simply will not play. period. this is just the truth regardless of how you or i enjoy the game. 

just be honest man come on, when the daily missions are done in this game aside from pvp there is nothing to do besides GRIND. and what keeps players grinding? wanting to progress! what makes players quit? not being able to progress. 

i love this game. but if i spend this entire month buying red packs and doing every achievement/daily ect and then eventually want to maybe try pvping with some purple or blue decks im simply out of luck because even the free pvp decks are limited.

18 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

frankly, allowing multi accounting would be utterly ludicrous as it would undermine the entire progression system. As such it simply will not happen so you are wasting your keystrokes.

the entire point i am trying to make is that the progression system is so gated that there is literally a rule to ban players simply for making new accounts in order to be able to progress and play the game the way they find enjoyable. i think we could agree banning players for simply wanting to be able to actually progress is a bad thing. right?

 

we all know PVP is a huge part of games like this and is solely what many players care about. imagine telling a starcraft player this

4 hours ago, Volin said:

And getting pretty everything (!) in 6-12months seems reasonable to me

"yea it is great you like the game but if you want to join the pvp crowd you need to play the same free deck over and over or farm for 6-12 months on the same missions over and over again."

i get it, i really do. some people like trying to do these missions with some quirky deck, or maybe seeing if they can beat X mission with only 2 monuments, or ect ect ect the list goes on. but for the people who do not enjoy or care to do any of that? it is simply a grind to get the cards upgraded. 

imagine if in WoW you hit level 10 and NPC's just stopped giving you quests until the next day. you can still level, of course. but the only way is to go out in the field and do some honest work chopping down monster after monster. of course if you simply wait till the next day though all the npc's will happily give you more quests! but only until level 15, in which they will then again shut you off. want to feel rewarded for your time by making a new character that can actually receive quests instead of endlessly grinding? too bad, banned.

that is honestly how this feels. personally i would love nothing more than to be able to play, power up my cards as fast as possible and get a great collection so i can try out various things in PvP. but there is only so long i can grind out the same missions over and over after my dailies before i simply get bored and move on until the reset.

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So what specific changes and additions would you make to the progression system so that, again, there are interesting long-term goals that don't trivialize card and upgrade acquisition yet constantly provide something worth striving for? While taking into account that people need something worthwhile to do with their resources when their collection is nearing completion or they have everything they want.

You are only taking about broad concepts. Multi accounting will not happen. So how would you realize those goals on only one account?

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just a few examples:

  1. add systems to reward players for playing more, such as bonus to BF/Gold after daily missions are complete.
  2. bonus currency when beating your own best time on a mission depending on the time difference
  3. far more achievements including ones designed to engage players in PvP
  4. make all free pvp decks always available so the PvP community doesn't feel gated by the PvE (large numbers of players play RTS strictly for pvp)
  5. double the daily missions, but make the new ones PvP missions so players of all skill and deck level will want to engage in the content.
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The current system is meant to reward players with more BFP for playing after quests. But without enabling the possibility of more time investment resulting in insurmountable advantages for progression.

How would you design a system that rewards players for playing more without having it feel exhausting, mandatory or it resulting in massive advantages for people that play more, making everyone who doesn't have as much time, feel like their efforts are meaningless? Which boundaries would you set so that people can't exploit the system by simply artificially stretching their in-game time?

Which achievements in particular? And how would you stagger them so people don't just do them early on and then still have none to do later?

How would you design the dailies so that PvE players don't feel forced to participate in PvP in order to have good progression even though they don't enjoy it? Otherwise this would result in people cheesing PvP missions with faux matches where players search each other out to complete the quests. Which is more tedium and helps nobody.

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46 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

The current system is meant to reward players with more BFP for playing after quests. But without enabling the possibility of more time investment resulting in insurmountable advantages for progression.

How would you design a system that rewards players for playing more without having it feel exhausting, mandatory or it resulting in massive advantages for people that play more, making everyone who doesn't have as much time, feel like their efforts are meaningless?

since when does actually being rewarded feel exhausting? how does saying "if you keep playing you will keep being rewarded" make plays feel it is mandatory? and what exactly is wrong with having advantages for PLAYING THE GAME MORE.

i am a father of 3, i am the definition of someone who "doesn't have as much time". and i can tell you that the fact that i have less time to play means i would rather only spend that time playing when i have daily's and such that will reward me. when it dries up i'm out. why would i stick around when i'm feeling unrewarded?

53 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

Which boundaries would you set so that people can't exploit the system by simply artificially stretching their in-game time?

which system are they abusing? playing the game? are you really considering playing a game more to be exploiting by "artifically stretching their in game time?" like i said in my WoW metaphor before... should WoW stop letting players "artically stretch their time in game" because some players get max level quicker than others?...this literally makes no sense to me. players will continue to grind if they want to grind and reach the peak regardless if they have the time. the point is to make players of any level feel rewarded any time they play.

56 minutes ago, Cocofang said:

Which achievements in particular? And how would you stagger them so people don't just do them early on and then still have none to do later?

is this not simple? we already have achievements such as beating missions with higher level decks, missions requiring certain cards to be played, ect. do you think all the new players magically have all these cards and decks at the ready to smash out the quests? no... the answer is to simply add challanges of various difficulties and requiring various cards. imagine challenges for completing 4 man maps solo on each difficulty, perhaps with different colors or playing at least X amount of twilight creatures. quirky stuff like "beat empire on expert with no player having more than 2 monuments at once". i could go on for days.

 

1 hour ago, Cocofang said:

How would you design the dailies so that PvE players don't feel forced to participate in PvP in order to have good progression even though they don't enjoy it? Otherwise this would result in people cheesing PvP missions with faux matches where players search each other out to complete the quests. Which is more tedium and helps nobody.

you mean instead of the current system? in which PvP players are forced to participate in PvE in order to have progression AT ALL and currently results in players cheesing PvE missions to clear them as fast as possible for currency? as far as stopping faux matches between players, this can easily be made tedious depending on what the quests are. something like "win a PvP match lasting over 15 minutes" "reach 4 monuments in PvP and win" "win a ranked pvp match" <-worth more. of course with this lazy players could still do some of these in unranked matches by simply waiting out the time and finishing the match, but this doesn't stop the fact that only 1 of the players will get the reward and it will be guaranteed to take time regardless.

so what? maybe a few players will match each other, wait 15 minutes and win, then rematch and do the reverse. congrats they spent 30~ minutes to do 1 daily and be bored out of their mind not actually playing while minding the AFK timer. do we really care?

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Multi accing = more cards for mains, less players playing hard maps = abusing market = less enjoyable for fresh players, expensive rare and ultrarare cards, less player playing more player maps cuz of grinding easy solo maps = less players playing the game.

Isn it obvious?

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5 hours ago, Bkingn said:

Multi accing = more cards for mains, less players playing hard maps = abusing market = less enjoyable for fresh players, expensive rare and ultrarare cards, less player playing more player maps cuz of grinding easy solo maps = less players playing the game.

Isn it obvious?

i agree with you, but the main point i want to make is that the game currently doesnt reward players enough for their time if they continue to play after daily missions and banning players for simply wanting to progress is a bad idea. i would much rather have a better system of progression that allows me to actually feel like i am making progress, but i also feel like if i want to upgrade my cards faster so i can PvP quicker i shouldn't get banned simply for making a new account to achieve that quicker since it seems to be the only way. if grinding harder missions/objectives would be nearly as rewarding there would be no need to multiaccount and no need for a rule to needlessly ban players for playing the game.

On 7/19/2021 at 10:45 AM, Majora said:

Also, you make it sound like the only reason to play the game is to grind/get points. I sure hope you are also playing the game just because you enjoy it? 😉 

seems others agree with me that endlessly grinding to upgrade cards is rather boring. like i said, what do you guys do when you are done with dailies for fun besides PvP and realistically how long does it keep you occupied?

bored.png

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40 minutes ago, Kilikem said:

i agree with you, but the main point i want to make is that the game currently doesnt reward players enough for their time if they continue to play after daily missions and banning players for simply wanting to progress is a bad idea. i would much rather have a better system of progression that allows me to actually feel like i am making progress, but i also feel like if i want to upgrade my cards faster so i can PvP quicker i shouldn't get banned simply for making a new account to achieve that quicker since it seems to be the only way. if grinding harder missions/objectives would be nearly as rewarding there would be no need to multiaccount and no need for a rule to needlessly ban players for playing the game.

seems others agree with me that endlessly grinding to upgrade cards is rather boring. like i said, what do you guys do when you are done with dailies for fun besides PvP and realistically how long does it keep you occupied?

bored.png

That doesn't seem very related to your point at all honestly. He is saying he doesnt enjoy rPvE, so he wants to play a normal campaign map. That is not related to rewards or grinding at all. 

We have already pointed out why multi-accounting is, and will not, be allowed, so I dont get why you keep calling it ''needlessly banning players'', since we already gave explanations of why this system is in place (ironicly, to make sure people like you, who dont have a lot of time, dont have to compete with just older players, but also multi-accounting).

As for PvP, you don't need to grind for PvP. You can get the most played cards from the free rental decks, and you can swap (and adjust!) those decks. Those decks are being played at the top level, so unless you want to play a pet card or make a small adjustment (which you can), you dont need to grind for PvP at all. 

Anyway, as mentioned before, we are already looking into solutions to give players more reward for playing after the daily, without allowing multi-accounting.
It would be way more helpful to share suggestions for that, then to argue about the multi-account ban, because that rule is not leaving. 
 

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5 minutes ago, Majora said:

That doesn't seem very related to your point at all honestly. He is saying he doesnt enjoy rPvE, so he wants to play a normal campaign map. That is not related to rewards or grinding at all. 

he isn't just saying he doesn't enjoy rPvE. he is saying he is bored of it. why? i can only assume because grinding it over and over is basically the best means of gold and gets boring extremely quickly.

6 minutes ago, Majora said:

We have already pointed out why multi-accounting is, and will not, be allowed, so I dont get why you keep calling it ''needlessly banning players'', since we already gave explanations of why this system is in place (ironicly, to make sure people like you, who dont have a lot of time, dont have to compete with just older players, but also multi-accounting).

can you name a single other game that bans players for simply making a new account and spending more time playing the game? why are they making new accounts? to get around a flawed reward system? if the reward system was sufficient the new accounts wouldn't be needed and either would a rule to ban players. what if i started off and spent tons of gold and BF on cards i didn't end up liking now knowing it takes 6-12 months to build an entire collection, so then i decide i want to reroll a new fresh account so i can spend my rewards better. BOOM banned....does this really make any sense? i am in no way saying we should encourage multi-accounting, but banning players NEEDLESSLY is not a good thing.

15 minutes ago, Majora said:

As for PvP, you don't need to grind for PvP. You can get the most played cards from the free rental decks, and you can swap (and adjust!) those decks. Those decks are being played at the top level, so unless you want to play a pet card or make a small adjustment (which you can), you dont need to grind for PvP at all.

of course you have the potential to select mono red/purple and try your hand at PvP. but this is a deck building strategy game. not simply a RTS game. who the hell wants to come to this game and play preset decks with limited customization options until they can build a respectable collection? what if i want to play 4 color enlightenment for the memes and try and make it work? i have to grind for literally weeks to months to build a collection that can support that, and even then i would have poured my entire currency stacks into buying the specific cards i want leaving me with little to no other deck options, especially since all gold would be poured into upgrades for the deck as well. id hardly say "you don't need to grind for PvP at all."

21 minutes ago, Majora said:

Anyway, as mentioned before, we are already looking into solutions to give players more reward for playing after the daily, without allowing multi-accounting.
It would be way more helpful to share suggestions for that, then to argue about the multi-account ban, because that rule is not leaving. 

i agree with you this is the best way to go. but if we can agree that the reward system needs work why can we not agree players shouldn't particularly be banned just for actually wanting to be rewarded for their play time? this is a video game, no one wants to be policed just for playing the damn game my dude.

On 7/19/2021 at 1:19 PM, Kilikem said:

id love to hear what you do for fun with a mid tier deck after you finish daily missions? do you quit pve entirely and try out pvp with free decks? do you see if your t2 werebeasts and t1 shaman can push the top of the standard ladder? or do you endlessly grind for more resource to try and upgrade/get new cards?

i would honestly love an answer to this question. what would you be doing in game after daily missions and do-able achievements with a deck consisting of lvl 1-2 cards of mostly common/uncommon with a few good rares?

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He is saying he is bored of rPvE, which is a personal thing. For me, personally, I never liked rPvE. I never did in EA times, and I dont like it now. I prefer playing a campaign map, or PvP. That has nothing to do with the reward system however.

As for PvP, previously, we didnt even have free PvP decks (or achievements by the way). So players would be locked out of PvP for months until they had enough cards to play it. I honestly dont get you are complaining about not being able to play PvP. Are you arguing all the cards should be available from the start? Cause in that case, ''what is the point of playing'' as you stated? If the rewards dont matter because you already have everything, isnt that an issue by itself?

If you do feel like the game (PvE or PvP) doesnt give you enjoyment because you dont have all the cards, you can look into playing on the test server. There all the cards are unlocked. 

We already gave explanations why we dont allow multi-accounting and the problems that would arise should we allow them, you just dont agree with them. We are not playing police, as you phrased it, just because we are some evil mastermind trying to ruin your fun. We have seen that multi-accounting actually makes it harder for newer players to enter the game. I also already stated we are looking into adding more rewards to give players more reason to continue playing. 

All I can do is explain our reasoning and share information about our future plans. But if your sole purpose of this post is to convince us to allow multi-accounting; im sorry, its just not going to happen. 

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4 minutes ago, Majora said:

As for PvP, previously, we didnt even have free PvP decks (or achievements by the way). So players would be locked out of PvP for months until they had enough cards to play it. I honestly dont get you are complaining about not being able to play PvP. Are you arguing all the cards should be available from the start? Cause in that case, ''what is the point of playing'' as you stated? If the rewards dont matter because you already have everything, isnt that an issue by itself?

I

I did not see any suggestion by Kilikem to make all the cards available, this quote makes me think you are not even reading the suggestions posted by a new player who obviously enjoys the game or he would not spend his time to create this thread and be so active on it.  I agree with Kilikem and like some of his suggestions for QoL, it sounds like the vets dont like fresh new ideas.  sad...

I've played the game in EA days as well as a few years ago and I can confirm I do my dailies to get the daily pack and then a few missions until the rewards get to a single digit.  

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35 minutes ago, mikehoncho said:

I did not see any suggestion by Kilikem to make all the cards available, this quote makes me think you are not even reading the suggestions posted by a new player who obviously enjoys the game or he would not spend his time to create this thread and be so active on it.  I agree with Kilikem and like some of his suggestions for QoL, it sounds like the vets dont like fresh new ideas.  sad...

I've played the game in EA days as well as a few years ago and I can confirm I do my dailies to get the daily pack and then a few missions until the rewards get to a single digit.  

We do care, which is also why I spend time to respond to this thread multiple times and explain our reasoning. Im sad to hear that somehow results in you thinking we do not care about new player input, just because we do not agree on a point. I also already responded to (and agreed to most of) the QoL things in my first reply. But after that the post mainly got taken over with a discussion about multi-accounting. 

I think Kilikem has a point regarding it feeling a bit lackluster to keep playing after you finish your daily. And, as I stated before, we are already looking into that. What I disagree with is the statement that multiaccounting should be allowed, and would solve the problems. What I also disagree with is the statement that you have to grind to be able to play PvP. 

There are Free PvP decks available, including all the top tier cards, resulting in you barely having to buy any cards to play competitive PvP. If you want to play an off-meta deck, you can either collect those specific cards, or play on the test server where all the cards are available. My statement ''I honestly dont get you are complaining about not being able to play'', might be worded a little harshly, but I am honestly wondering what the exact problem (and preferred solution) would be regarding PvP specifically that was not already covered. 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Majora said:

There are Free PvP decks available, including all the top tier cards, resulting in you barely having to buy any cards to play competitive PvP. If you want to play an off-meta deck, you can either collect those specific cards, or play on the test server where all the cards are available. My statement ''I honestly dont get you are complaining about not being able to play'', might be worded a little harshly, but I am honestly wondering what the exact problem (and preferred solution) would be regarding PvP specifically that was not already covered. 

i have friends that absolutely hate playing meta anything in any game. like I said before, what if i want to theory craft 4 color enlightenment or some weird janky stuff that could change the meta entirely. not to mention new cards are looking to be added to the game. so if i want to choose these as a new player i'm then locked out of almost all the other choices. and will have no ability to even try and make a new fun and interesting deck. what if a new player wants to pvp for fun, only to take the green free pvp decks only to realized red and purple smashes them 99% if the time yet they are locked to the decks they chose for a full week.

what exactly is the point of having to lock in free pvp decks instead of them just being available to use as a card pool for pvp? 

honestly if i had to make a suggestion id make the game rewards better in general so people can grind for the stuff they want efficiently and remove free PvP decks entirely. some cards viability will be heavily weighted towards pvp and as such will be almost valueless for PvE. if these cards are available in all the free pvp decks at max rank already this almost immediately makes the card almost valueless.

more daily missions/achievements of both pvp and pve requiring a range of cards and strategies along with removal of free PvP decks would make some niche cards far more valuable.

i will make a separate post about improving the current systems and try and provide more suggestions in order to make the topic more productive. i still maintain the opinion that banning players for simply playing more of the game is a negative thing and will end on that.

Edited by Kilikem
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If multi accounting would be allowed what would prevent people from having every single card multiple times in the first hour in the game?

And the example WoW I assumed means World of Warcraft, right? Last time I played multi accounting was necessary to complete at least significant part of daily quests, because of the limit that you could complete only 20 of them each day, so that forced player to have multiple accounts, and did not allow them to do everything on single account, so I see exactly same problem with that game, except you can pay real money to have more accounts, which in my opinion is much worse.

And there is one easy solution to daily quests, if you do not like them just do not play any game that have them (which unfortunately includes also single player games 😞 ).

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2 hours ago, Kubik said:

And the example WoW I assumed means World of Warcraft, right? Last time I played multi accounting was necessary to complete at least significant part of daily quests, because of the limit that you could complete only 20 of them each day, so that forced player to have multiple accounts, and did not allow them to do everything on single account, so I see exactly same problem with that game, except you can pay real money to have more accounts, which in my opinion is much worse.

Not to mention Activision Blizzard is more than happy to let people use multiple accounts because that means multiple subscriptions. They are multi-dipping individual power users for extra cash. And even then they eventually decided that they have to at least crack down on automated multiboxing because, you guessed it, it provided too big of an advantage over anyone not doing it. Sure, in their case it was purely a business decision. They probably noticed increasing dissatisfaction among the population with only one account that threatened their bottom line more than the multiboxing population benefited it. This simply proves the point that multi accounting that is tied to progression can be extremely troublesome.

6 hours ago, Kilikem said:

id love to hear what you do for fun with a mid tier deck after you finish daily missions? do you quit pve entirely and try out pvp with free decks? do you see if your t2 werebeasts and t1 shaman can push the top of the standard ladder? or do you endlessly grind for more resource to try and upgrade/get new cards?

You already got an answer from me regarding that but if you want more, I enjoyed the restrictions of having to work with unupgraded and random cards just as much as I now enjoy having a wealth of resources to build decks from. I even often intentionally restrict myself during deckbuilding, using cards that don't normally see use. I liked trying to make what I had work. Overcoming the difficulties despite suboptimal cards. The short- and mid-term goals were really enjoyable. What progression is more lacking are long-term goals and something to do with excess resources.

Please stop pretending like people are getting banned because they innocently want to play the game more. They are getting banned for actively and intentionally undermining the intended design of the progression system in an extremely drastic fashion that would have them advance many times faster than someone that does not. They are not needlessly getting banned. It's not like they are merely trying to get the most out of the progression on their own account. They want to circumvent it entirely.

The example about someone wanting to start fresh because they invested their resources into things they didn't end up enjoying is a bit outlandish. You won't get more gold on a new account, so in both cases, you'd start from 0. On the contrary even, you won't be able to do the content that nets more gold in the beginning, so you'd be even slower. And the "failed" collection can always be liquefied into BFP to buy something else. That scenario you try to sell as the "innocent rookie case for multi accounting" doesn't really exist in that form.

But one big issue I am seeing from this thread is the disregard and lack of understanding for the underlying psychology that game design strives to adhere to. Almost reducing it to surface level statement like "more stuff faster = better" with little context. Psychology is an extraordinarily important aspect that the current design aims to take into account. What is also missing is, more specifically, an analysis about what the current progression system aims to do and how it tries to achieve that. There are also too few to no critical examination of what the issues of proposed adjustments would be. They're merely presented as being "better", which isn't the case at all. Everything has pros and cons, it's a matter of priorities.

One can definitely feel the frustration about progression speed but then it's mostly unguided ranting. It lacks elaborate specifics. All in all, I don't really feel like a lot of helpful thoughts can be salvaged from this. Best anybody can take from this thread is "dissatisfaction noted, guess we can try to figure out something reasonable, maybe". Which, to my understanding, is something that's already actively being worked on.

Edited by Cocofang
SunWu, Volin, Majora and 3 others like this
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