Treim

The number is the damage/20 sec. A lot of those are actually wrong though. The bow, sword, star stand respectively for: Ranged, Melee and special attack unit. Special would be considered units with f.e siege bonus. The letters next to the attack type stand for countersizes. So Forsaken f.e deal 50% more damage against M sized units.

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if a unit dies during second chance but a unit of yours is already respawning (basically after the death animation is done) the dying unit will not respawn. Before they changed Second Chance + decomposer combo there were a few other conditions that must be met to succeed. After the changes it is way more unstable though. The condition above is still relevant though at least as far as my experience goes with it.

Messed up in the first deck by taking riflr cultists instead of Offering. As you have 3 t4 units anyways, rifle cultists are not really necassary. Especially when considering that LSS is a support unit and you need a lot of power to get going in the first place (2x LSS, Altar of Chaos stacking, Lost Warlord, Lost Dragon). Offering LSS afterwards to get stacks is not really an issue afterwards as you also have to keep feeding your LSS with buildings and cast a few spells. I at least cant remember ever having issues with it. Obviously i did those decks purely out of memory, so i won‘t rule out conpletely that i missed something.

Found it in a recent post: For the whole post:

There will be the chance to get promos on the first card in a boosterpack. At least how it is currently handled. I think the proposed reward currently is 0.5% chance to get a promo. Depending on how open beta goes that rate is up to change obviously. Just be sure that the devs have thought of it .

It probably Shadow for me with a slight edge over Fire - both enable an aggressive spellheavy playstyle as both have powerful offensive spells and a good amount of void manipulation. My favourite probably is still if you combine the both of them in a Bandit deck with Bloodhorns, Frenetic Assault, Cluster Explosion, Infect, Soulshatter and completely erase a base in a few seconds just to get all the power back with Shrine of War or Cultist Master + Furnace of Flesh combo.

Well i said it i think it is possible to do 3 hours a day semi consistantly( at least 3/5 days a week). So if you are really dedicated you can enjoy full payment for all your time. That is probably possible for a majority for people here (not sure about the actual people with kids or jobs that require more time, etc.) but considering average age is probably around early twenties here i think it is quite likely that my assumptions are correct or not too far off. The longer i think about this issue the more i wouldn't want any cap at all tbh. If you want to invest hours a day into playing this game then get your reward. And sure that massively favors students who got more time, but most people here probably had that advantage in other games. And if that causes that some people basically rush through the game and got all cards and upgrades within a few weeks or month, then so be it.

I am not denying that working people probably won't be able to play 3 or 4 hours. However why would you diminish peoples return who can play that long simply on the basis that others can't. Again I see the point of not letting people get to far ahead of others, but i think there is a reasonable amount of people who definetly can play 3 or 4 hours a day without a problem for whatever reason. You probably could even do it if you have a regular job 9-5 job at least semi consistantly. If you don't than you probably simply have other priorities like a girlfriend or going out with friends, watching some Netflix, doing sports, etc. . That is the case for me as well. However i'd consider 3-4 hours a timeframe that most people COULD achieve semi-consistantly. So if it is possible for most people i don't see why you would punish people who actually do it and diminish their return. After that timeframe it probably gets a little bit problematic and aside from students others can't do it anymore and if you want a cap you gotta do it somewhere. I definetly have other priorities as well and definetly won't play 3 or 4 hours a day but realistically i could definetly do it. Speaking of my limited experience with a 9-5 job living alone of about 2 month I'd say that i could have definetly done at least 3 hours a day if i dedicated a considerable amount of my free time playing games. That is obviously a measly amount of experience, but it really is all i can go on as i probably won't find time charts about that kind of stuff. TL;DR start the cap at a point which is achieveable for most people with a 9-5 job if they really set battleforge as a top priority for their free time. I really wish i could express this a little bit better, but i am unable to find the right words to wrap this up nicely, so this will have to do for now. I actually don't even think it has to be exclusively a checklist or an achievement system. You can probably do a mix as well, as long as you can guarantee a somewhat similar income rate no matter which quests you get. That might be a little bit harder to achieve than an exclusive system, but i am sure it is far from impossible once you figure out at what rate you want people to acquire BFP.

I am not anywhere knowledgeable enough to give a proposal that i can feel confident about to be right. If you ask me for my personal opinion, I'd prefer an unrestricted acquiring of BFP or a restriction that is as marginal as possible. I feel like that if someone puts in the time/effort he would be rewarded at the same rates as anyone else. If someone is unable to play much than that simply means that you prioritize things differently and that is fine, but shouldn't be accounted for by a game. If you want to have some sort of restriction I would need to do some research but on first glance don't cap it to more than 75% at any time. I feel like the first 3 or 4 hours should be penalty free in any case. After that timeframe go down somewhat periodically in whatever percent/hour you feel like. Closing the gap between players who play a lot and those who don't is an issue in this specific case because a lot of people already know what they want from the game so every BFP is probably even more worth than other (new) games as people know how to beat the content and can work much more effiiciently, so i understand that the devs don't want that, so i can live with capping it to minimize that, however by doing that you also create an even bigger disadvantage for players who only can play on very few days but play excessively on those days instead of spreading it out over the week. Edit: From here it is made up from the top of my head so you probably can see my thought patterns in my writing - hope it doesn't get to confusing. From my understanding there is going to be playtime rewards and daily quests so in order to go with the 75% proposal you have 2 base solutions which come to my head right away: 1. balance income symmetrical around both systems making up about 50% and cut in either of them 25% or in both for a combined 25% with whatever percentage over 1 hour after 3 or 4 hours(1.1) or up one of the income of one of the systems to 75% (1.2) 2. balance income asymmetrical around both systems, so 75% to 25% (as extreme) Advantage of 75% to 25% is that you can put the quest system at 25% income production and don't generate new quests for a day after the initial 3 or 4 hours of playtime is up. That way you can get away with less quests to minimize repetition of quests. On the other hand you swap main and secondary income systems. At least from my understanding the quest system is/was supposed to be the main system which you just turned on its head and works more as complimentary system to spice things up for a few hours. (2.1) For the other extreme you simply inverse that, so you need more quests to minimize repitition, but make sure that the quest systems is the main system in which case you probably don't need the playtime rewards at all and simply diminish quest rewards. (2.2) Major disadvantage of 1.1 is that you have to do both systems so you basically lose the advantage of shutting one system down and can't avoid the repitition problem of the quest system so why bother with having 2 systems in the first place? 1.2 addresses that so you can shut down the quest system but don't lose to much income production by simply upping the income of the playtime system. This is awfully similar to suggestion 2.2 but you at least let it be an equal part of the system for the first few hours. 3. Actually this brings another possibility to mind which is simply completely relying on the quest system for the first 3 or 4 hours before shutting it down after that time frame - matches that overlap should count to the quest - and after that playtime rewards get handed out. Obviously that kind of system has its flaws in that a quest system doesn't offer any guaranteed income as you have to hit objectives which different people take different amounts of time for and that different quests inherently will take different amounts of time to complete. So you would need to scale quest rewards depending on the quest difficulty, which are inherently subjective - so there's no way to nail that perfectly for everyone. So that is a bunch of work to approximate those - especially with probably no or little data the chance to miss the mark is very high. I am not sure how far the devs thought this through, but i am sure that they and a lot of other people made more thoughts on this than me, so please point out any flaws in my logic. I made these solutions up on the fly so please correct me or add stuff. Overall I'd say i prefer solution 3 the most as it is easiest to balance and you can be "lazy" and avoid creating massive amounts of quests or minimze repitive quests. Edit 2: Just realized that i went astray from the original question quite far. woops.

It doesn‘t really matter if you hard or softcap it. You disincentivize players from playing by diminishing returns over time. Imagine getting less money/hour of work the longer you work a day. At some point you‘d probably simply stop working because you think you‘re time is more worth. And yes obviously you are not working but playing to have fun, but it still doesn‘t feel to good. Now I am not saying that i am totally against capping stuff in whatever way, simply wanted to point it out

You can simply cap the one currency you have. In following thoughts i assume that BFP is the currency in the 1 currency system. Assuming that the functions of both systems currencies is to acquire and upgrade cards and that the card acquiring part is consistant in both systems you can easily get a rate for gold to BFP conversion for the card acquiring part. As BFP would be capped in the 1 currency system you'll eventually reach a point where the consistant gold income would be way higher than anything a capped system can acquire - it is capped after all. Depending on how you balance that you can manipulate the break even point. Not sure if it is clear what i mean but i actually really lack in vocabulary and am to lazy to draw graphs. Anyways i think both systems can work. A 1 currency system would probably encourage decision making a little bit more as you do not predetermine the use of specific parts of the gain of an account. The player has got the decision to place more emphasis on card acquiring or upgrading, while with the 2 currency system he is basically "forced" to do both. A 1 currency system is probably advantageour for experienced players who know what direction they want to go in and which cards are mandatory for specific decks, while a 2 currency system is definetly more "noob-friendly". I am actually fine with either decision as you probably need a bunch of cards first anyways and by the time you got those you probably got enough gold to upgrade the cards anyways so the difference is probably miniscule for me personally.

Uh this thread was not really intended to have multiple songs per post so i'll simply rate the first song of that mix : 7/10

@MephistoRoss actually created an Excel tool for collecting cards and upgrades:

Guess some people recognize my name from the speedrun rankings. Also since i played this game for a rather long time you obviously get to know a lot of people. @Buddelmuddel I was actually hoping you'd find this project as you're actually probably the longest friend i had in BF who was still actively playing towards the end. We gotta try some wonky strategies for 2 player rPVE

@Buddelmuddel Don't worry mate I'll be there .

I think this thread is in the right section. I think even experienced players can learn something from this. Especially some combos are rather advanced and i doubt most players will ever think about those. That is especially true as most players probably go for the easier choices with heals and don't play a "standard bandits deck". Especially your explanations on the situational use of cards is probably extremely valuable to new players and even to players who are just new to the faction as bandits have a very distinct playstyle similar to Lost souls as both can not rely on conventional healing spells and the use of units and spells is getting vastly more important. So far great job. I am looking forward to the t3 and t4 section. I also hope you can do some examplatory decks in the end for different types of maps - like standard, defensive, offensive and rPVE. I'd also like to get a small summary of how to play those decks in a so to say compressed form. Like a few sentences on which card combos are generally the key to success in thos decks specifically. In addition maybe a difficulty ranking would be nice . I am not sure if you wanted to include those anyways but i think those things could be usefull. If you need any help with something feel free to contact me Great job so far.

In terms of rPVE speedrunning Bloodhorn is an option for either LSS and Batariel decks. It is frequently used when facing at least 2 XL Bosses with massive HP bars or against Twilight maps. It is especially usefull when facing Twilght Infester (i think it was named like that - the Twilight Juggernaut Boss) as it deals massive damage and takes less damage from ranged attacks. Additionally against Twilight ground presence is generally necassary to cast spells such as Earthshaker, Matter Mastery to deal with Willzappers and at lvl 10 cc spells to deal with Wrathgazers and as LSS are generally the way to go Bloodhorn is the best option if you can afford the fire orb in your deck. Alternatively Grimvine is the only other viable option, but slightly tankier but with much less damage. the shadow affinity Bloodhorn 3-4 shots any Boss with the inherent units buff + Unholy Hero + Unholy Power ( not exactly sure if unholy power was necassary for that), Only exception to this rule is Commando Walker, which is the other Unit Bloodhorns are especially valuable against. Bandits are always dealt with by LSS and it generally takes ages to deal with it, even with Fallen Skyelf. Bloodhorns are easily the 3rd most viable t4 unit right behind LSS and Batariel (4th if you count Rifle cultists) for rPVE I probably missed out on some things due the large time without playing speedruns. If you are interested in the exact use you should check out my speedrun guide which was written in 2015 with much fresher memories: Have fun in that forgotten thread For casual play Bloodhorns are great units due to their great abilities. Stampeding half a camp and destroying 4 buildings is easily one of the most satisfying things to watch in the game and even has the additional bonus of healing the unit. Both affinities have situations where one is better than the other. For the casual game fire affinity is way better in twilight maps due to the cc immunity while purple is way better at boss slaying. Both have their valuable spots in a deck based around Bloodhorns. Combining thos with spells such as Soulshatter, Frenetic assault, Infect and Cluster Explosion is probably the 2nd fastest way to clear an entire base right behind a buffed up Batariel. Overall really just a fun card with a great kit.

I have barely any impression of this card as towers are utterly useless in rPVE and PVP. Also i never used double frost orbs in PVE either. I feel like you can probably get by with Cannon towers and wait for t4 with Worldbreaker gun generally though. If you really need a t3 towers i feel like Necroblaster would be the better choice as well.

You're welcome . Healing gardens for speedrunning is generally at best optional. Generally it only really is worth it when you are facing massive amounts of damage which are hard to deal with just regular heals and defensive capabilities. That's generally only the case for Twilight lvl 10 maps where you face massive cc and rahter high damage output with very few units as t1-4 are so quickly cleared. There is a few Lost Soul maps which are hard to deal with even with 10-12 LSS as they simply put out so much damage that a few ships can get focussed down very easily. Even in those cases it is more of an optional card as you generally can play around those maps. It is more of a safety net if someone messes up positioning. I really liked using this in Death Ray decks where they constantly chunk of HP from themselves to charge themselves up. That is quite a bit of HP to loose in the process and without Healing gardens it is rather easy to run out of charges even with 2 or 3 healing spells, especially when not refilling charges with Offering accordingly. I feel like the biggest problem about this card is that you are binding a lot of power in a building that has a use that might or might not be necassary. 240 power to keep the effect running permanently is a lot of power when just reaching t4. This slows you down considerably. Also the problem is that you generally have enough void manipulation to get back power so quickly that it doesn't really matter to use a healing spell one more time. If you are running a support type of deck i'd definetly recommend this card as well. You will definetly not get anything going damage wise anyways, so building as much support as possible is the best way. So if you are the type of guy who wants to build Wheel of Gifts,, Inc. Mo and Shrine of War stick to that and just add Healing Gardens as you're damage will be negligable anyways - you spend so much power on buildings that your few units can't really go anywhere by themselves anyways. Btw when facing Lost Souls never build Wheel of Gifts in my games unless you have at least 2 people who only use air units only. The effect will get cancelled out for ground units by Lost Dancers anyways. If i see that it literally tilts me off the earth Generally this card also gets better the less void manipulation you have as the cost for additional healing spells in contrast to binding 240 power permanently gets increased as you cant back your power from the spell as fast. Summarizing: For speedrunning: -Only ever against Twilight lvl 10 or Lost Souls lvl 10 maps with massive bases For casual play: -Necassary when running out of healing charges - such as Death Ray deck -Highly recommend it in supportive decks -Better for low/no void manipulation decks -Otherwise at best optional as you will generally not need the extra healing effect if you play properly . If you mess up it will probably not save you anyways , but it is an option to help out teammates. The better option for helping out teammater though is Shrine of War.

Essential speedrunning card on rPVE lvl 10 maps against any Lost Vigils. The red one is preferable due to more damage against air units and ground units are taken care of mines. I'll just be lazy and quote myself on this one . Otherwise it will probably get to out of context as this only works if you have some kind of coordination. It's by far the most complex thing in rPVE T1 and applying to any situation is not as easy as it may look like. I underlined the parts where the most relevanant parts for Blaster Cannons are. I'd suggest to read the whole thing though. I'll leave the original source here as well: Please note that this is just a general rule of thumb and you have to apply it to every map indidividually. If you play decently with good coordination you will always be able to clear t2 bases in a fast and efficient way though. For 2 Player maps: For 4 Player maps: I rarely used this card on any other occasion as you can generally get by without it and due to it being against air only and t1 makes the situations where it actually is the best all around card rather rare.

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