Lost Spirit Ship vs Bloodhorn (Who can clear camps faster ) Test.

[Makaveli2989]

Hey guys.

Earlier today I had a discussion with my teammate about who can clear camps faster. 12 spirit ships or bloodhorn with spells. at the end we decided to test it out in random pve.

However after we finished the test we still couldn't agree about who is the fastest. 12 LSS or bloodhorn with spells, because in his side he had to fight 2 big bosses, and in my side I had to travel a lot because my camps were not in one straight line like his. that's why we decided to only focus on the first 2 camps each of us had to clear and ignore the rest, as both two camps we each had to clear were very very similar to each other and with the same distance. so we decided to count from the second we get the agro and start to fight until the camps are clear.

but he still didn't agree because in his opinion he had to deal with 2 Twillight negators in his second camp which blocked his spells and delayed him, where in my opinion I don't think this matter at all, in fact i think this is another reason why I think that 12 LSS are faster to clear camps than bloodhorn with spells.

 

At the end we decided to share the videos here with you guys and hear your opinions about who is the faster unit to clear camps.

and remember please, this is not about the fastest tactic to clear the whole map because we both agree that until the moment someone would have 12 LSS, bloodhorn would already have cleared half the map :). this is about who can clear camps faster from the moment the fight start until the camp is all clear.

 

here are both videos. enjoy

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Makaveli2989

[SunWu]

The answer varies depending on things like:

- wich spells does the bloodhorn player carry? Here he plays nature wich gives you thunderstorm, but with one more fire orb he could have gone for cluster explosion wich deals way more and faster damage.

- what's the oponent? Lost Souls maps are nice for Spirit Ship spam, a twilight map makes ground presence much more valuable.

- Are there bosses? LSS spam has problems with twilight infestor, you can kill him but it takes forever. Other bosses also take a lot of time cause LSS's single target dmg is really low while buffed bloodhorns kill every boss pretty quickly.

- Is he only allowed to play 2 bloodhorns? With the power for 12 LSSs you could play like 7 bloodhorns and still spam spells thx to shrine of war.

Generally i'd say bloodhorns beat ship spam almost all the time cause and spells deal so much damage in a short amount of time its insane with shrine of war. You can also let infect nightcrawlers finish off stuff while bloodhorns are on their way to the next base.

Edited March 27, 2021 by SunWu

[Makaveli2989]

Thank you for sharing your opinion

as you said a lot of things can have an impact on how fast someone can clear a camp, like what map, what boss, how many orbs, orbs combination, what spells, cards. void, power pool, if we are to count all of those things, I don't think anyone can prove to anyone anything, because the possibilities are almost unlimited, and that is why this game is so enjoyable 

I totally agree with you about the problem of spirit ships against tanky bosses and single target. but the same can also be said about bloodhorn when dealing with a boss like nyxia, or when negators blocking the use of spells.

therefor the idea is more about how fast can 12 spirit ships finish a camp in general compared to a typical bloodhorn tactic deck with spells like frenetic, infect, buffs...

I think we can safely say how fast can 12 spirit ships kill units compared to bloodhorn tactic in general if my teammate agree with this statement

because there is only 1 boss in a camp but dozen of units and buildings.

 

now about what my teammate were allowed to do. the answer is everything he wanted really. I think he played just like he normally would in a level 9 rpve. no limits or rules to what he wanted to do or how many bloodhorns.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Makaveli2989

[Treim]

This is purely theoretical - not sure what you hope to gain from it but here is my thoughts:
As you started discounting bosses i will do the same in my following arguments

LSS will almost always be faster against Lost Souls (especially true for a whole map - singular camps bloodhorn might be favored) - main reasons:

• Often a significant amount of a camps strengths is bound in air units which bloodhorn spell deck has a hard time dealing with (neither 2x fire 2x shadow nor 2 shadow 1 nature 1 fire have  a good answer here)
• Shields hard fuck spelldecks because they counter the higher burst damage of spelldecks compared to the consistant damage of LSS
• Lost Souls camps often are rather widespread (the camp has a lot of free room inbetween units and buildings, which is bad for cluster explosion

LSS will be mostly (slightly) be better against Bandits (~70%)

• Lost Souls camps often are rather widespread and have very few units --> LSS pretty much can just keep flying without even stopping, especially in early camps)

Bloodhorn will always be faster against Twilight

• Twilight camps are (in the mean) usually neither widespread nor super cramped resulting in neither an advantage nur disadvantage for Bloodhorn
• Bloodhorn ground presence is king, pure LSS spam is unplayable in lvl 10 , you just get perma cc'ed by Evil Eyey and Wrathgazer
• Twilight can have a lot of buildings that Stampede will help against a lot, especially the big spawn buildings. LSS can have trouble focusing down the big spawn building on these maps.

Bloodhorn is about even with LSS against Stonekin

• Camps are usually packed and a lot of its strength is packed into ground units (Cluster explosion)
• Stonekin has a lot of high HP huge buildings that Stampede will help against a lot, especially the spawn. LSS can have trouble focusing down the big spawn building on these maps.
• Stonekin units take less damage counteracting the burst damage of bloodhorn spelldeck.
   

From a practical standpoint there is a bunch of problems here. Just mentioning a few:
Even discounting the fact that bosses were ignored and obviously bloodhorn spell deck gets online way faster compared to LSS.
Bloodhorn Spelldeck at its max damage output is considerably more difficult to play as you have no reliable way of healing unless you dont sacrifice damage for a nature orb + you have to manage low charge cards and long cooldown cards like Cluster Explosion and frenetic assault meticulously.
Also LSS decks will suffer way more from incomes to orbs, especially in late game scenarios where you have to bind at least 2 LSS at your base. Also you would need to sacrifice another ship for void manipulation (Cultist Master), this will actually boost your damage as you now have access to cards like Motivate for your ships which gives you a damage boost overall but will make some camps borderline suicide from an HP perspective.

From a practical point of view:

LSS >> Bloodhorn vs Lost Souls
LSS == Bloodhorn vs Bandits (very map dependant, should even out in mean but LSS is easier to play)
LSS << Bloodhorn vs Twilight
LSS >> Bloodhorn vs Stonekin (Playing a 2fire 2shadow spelldeck with few bloodhorns here is almost impossible, so you will be pretty much forced to play 1 nature orb which significantly hurts your cleartime)

Edited March 28, 2021 by Treim

[Makaveli2989]

47 minutes ago, Treim said:

This is purely theoretical - not sure what you hope to gain from it but here is my thoughts:
As you started discounting bosses i will do the same in my following arguments

LSS will almost always be faster against Lost Souls (especially true for a whole map - singular camps bloodhorn might be favored) - main reasons:

• Often a significant amount of a camps strengths is bound in air units which bloodhorn spell deck has a hard time dealing with (neither 2x fire 2x shadow nor 2 shadow 1 nature 1 fire have  a good answer here)
• Shields hard fuck spelldecks because they counter the higher burst damage of spelldecks compared to the consistant damage of LSS
• Lost Souls camps often are rather widespread (the camp has a lot of free room inbetween units and buildings, which is bad for cluster explosion

LSS will be mostly (slightly) be better against Bandits (~70%)

• Lost Souls camps often are rather widespread and have very few units --> LSS pretty much can just keep flying without even stopping, especially in early camps)

Bloodhorn will always be faster against Twilight

• Twilight camps are (in the mean) usually neither widespread nor super cramped resulting in neither an advantage nur disadvantage for Bloodhorn
• Bloodhorn ground presence is king, pure LSS spam is unplayable in lvl 10 , you just get perma cc'ed by Evil Eyey and Wrathgazer
• Twilight can have a lot of buildings that Stampede will help against a lot, especially the big spawn buildings. LSS can have trouble focusing down the big spawn building on these maps.

Bloodhorn is about even with LSS against Stonekin

• Camps are usually packed and a lot of its strength is packed into ground units (Cluster explosion)
• Stonekin has a lot of high HP huge buildings that Stampede will help against a lot, especially the spawn. LSS can have trouble focusing down the big spawn building on these maps.
• Stonekin units take less damage counteracting the burst damage of bloodhorn spelldeck.
   

From a practical standpoint there is a bunch of problems here. Just mentioning a few:
Even discounting the fact that bosses were ignored and obviously bloodhorn spell deck gets online way faster compared to LSS.
Bloodhorn Spelldeck at its max damage output is considerably more difficult to play as you have no reliable way of healing unless you dont sacrifice damage for a nature orb + you have to manage low charge cards and long cooldown cards like Cluster Explosion and frenetic assault meticulously.
Also LSS decks will suffer way more from incomes to orbs, especially in late game scenarios where you have to bind at least 2 LSS at your base. Also you would need to sacrifice another ship for void manipulation (Cultist Master), this will actually boost your damage as you now have access to cards like Motivate for your ships which gives you a damage boost overall but will make some camps borderline suicide from an HP perspective.

From a practical point of view:

LSS >> Bloodhorn vs Lost Souls
LSS == Bloodhorn vs Bandits (very map dependant, should even out in mean but LSS is easier to play)
LSS << Bloodhorn vs Twilight
LSS >> Bloodhorn vs Stonekin (Playing a 2fire 2shadow spelldeck with few bloodhorns here is almost impossible, so you will be pretty much forced to play 1 nature orb which significantly hurts your cleartime)

this is very enlightening. ty for your opinion

usually the way I play LSS is I go shadow, shadow, frost shadow. I spawn 4 LSS, then I destroy them after the use of second chance. then cultist with furnace ofc if there is no SoW, then I spawn the rest. in a normal game I would have 12 LSS before there is 10:00 minutes left. I orb switch my amii to nature, the use of it saves me 122 power overall compared to taking the t4 normal orb and switch it later. afterward I never get short on power, even if there is no SoW I always end the game between 1-2k in my powerpool even without losing a single ship. but ofc i only use Arcanes like stone shell and regrowth 

motivation isn't really worth it for me as it only effects units with same affinity plus the fact that I have no ground units to respawn. and i don't like to run over the maps with 10 ships only ^^. however since i have alot of power, i sometimes build the fifth orb as frost, and i use Lost evocation red to get 50% damage buff when there is another player with a ground unit close to me, and i try to keep it alive as much as i can with the help of Rev Blessing, sometimes i can manage to take it with me for a long time. but its hard and need attention all the time 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Makaveli2989

[SunWu]

If you go without ground unit, revenge is really nice. Besides motivate and shadow buffs it is the only way to deal extra damage if i dont forget anything else.

[Makaveli2989]

9 hours ago, SunWu said:

If you go without ground unit, revenge is really nice. Besides motivate and shadow buffs it is the only way to deal extra damage if i dont forget anything else.

There is Lost Evocation red affinity, it gives 50% damage buff to all LS units. but it requires 1 extra orb which for me isn't a problem, the problem is it's a spell not arcane, so I need to have a ground unit or a friendly ground unit nearby to use it. but once used it's really really nice, the revenant last for 25 seconds and the buff last for extra 20 seconds on the unit after the revenant leave. that is 45 seconds, and if I use revenant blessing to stop the revenant timer, I can have it for really long time

Edited March 28, 2021 by Makaveli2989

[Ponni]

9 hours ago, SunWu said:

If you go without ground unit, revenge is really nice. Besides motivate and shadow buffs it is the only way to deal extra damage if i dont forget anything else.

Well, there is Flame Crystal also that could give you a damage boost. An overweight of red aff ships is needed for that though...or possibly ok anyway, 5-6 ships giving increasingly more damage during 30(?) secs maybe is enough...

[Treim]

42 minutes ago, Ponni said:

Well, there is Flame Crystal also that could give you a damage boost. An overweight of red aff ships is needed for that though...or possibly ok anyway, 5-6 ships giving increasingly more damage during 30(?) secs maybe is enough...

One should be able to setup more as all your initial 4 ships at least can be red affinity. At minimum you should be able to run around with 8 in that case. Even motivating 1 constantly in base after that and missing out on 1 nature affinity LSS is worth it for sure.