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Posted (edited)

- Auction House restrictions = players can't abuse selling prices and prevents players from quitting the game since scammers in the auction can make the auction seem useless at times, which this restriction can prevent this issue altogether, so players can make use of it without slowing their progress too much with getting new cards they're after, basically restricting a card like "Mine or Mo" from going over 450bfp, or below 250bfp, this way nobody is ripped off, not even new players, possibly even adding a feature that indicates the cards general average true value/ worth.

- More promo cards for other cards = card variants that allow a more personalized collection, so players can find the version of a card they may have always wanted to see, or they can enjoy cards they may not have liked previously on terms of cosmetic features, until the card cosmetic variant comes around that fits their preferred style for a card, such as multiple Promo Mo variants utilizing different shaders, materials, and visual effect enhancements to make it cooler, including the lack of Promos for popular cards such as Giant Wyrm, Shaman, Soulhunter, Bloodhorn, and Iron Clad, etc. which could give players more reason to support the games expense through funds (as at the very least I think a Giant Wyrm deserves a promo card with golden or chrome armor apparel).

- 6 vs 6 PvP, or 12 player "no teams battle mode" = Custom mode variety has potential here, including a map creator feature that can be made easy to use for all players to create their own maps and modes for unique battle outcomes among different competing players, without running out of ideas too fast...however the mechanics would require restrictions and preset options for players to choose from, also a feature not even League of Legends has which they could benefit from.

- New UI feature addition "reserve cards" for collection = players can reserve cards they're after simply by making a list so they don't forget their card goals they're after, and can always have in game access to the list of cards that they're after, without wondering what they're missing...also allowing players to enlist new cards for reserve that they weren't aware of initially, until they discovered the option (thus they can save the card into their list or reserve it into a deck as a ghosted card until unlocked), which the choices may be provided from the entire roster of cards so players are aware of all the cards available without guessing, thus assuring players aren't missing out on their options, or forgetting what they're after.

- Custom card backgrounds for each element type = more personalized variety which is good for the players interest, and expanding potential diversity, such as golden trim with glowing gems surrounded by sparkles of its element type around the boarder, or a Hearthstone frame like the "dragon framed legendary" cards they have, including Magic The Gathering Arena's "Panoramic 2D Gif movement" cards, etc.

- Add more functional cards = Balancing the best cards available now, by creating counters to each card, so others can be just as effective, including nerfing, buffing, or altering cards already available, so certain cards that aren't used often can see more usage, including being more enjoyable to use in a mixed element deck providing more deck creativity, such as altering the element orbs required to use certain cards, so they can be seen in more decks of diverse creativity.

- Custom Mode Feature "Add more card slots" = more deck diversity and doesn't have to be too many, plus if it's a custom mode feature, it only adds to the experience and satisfaction of trying new deck options with a few more slot options to preset.

 

(I don't use the Forums often, but this had to be an exception in hopes the game makes additional improvements soon, as the lack of variety is yet again affecting Battleforge's potential...)

 

 

Edited by Legendary_Apocalypse

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Posted (edited)

Great effort, some cool things I would support, but given the magnitude of changes you demand, how many years are we talking until that’s going to be implemented?  ^^

many of those things have been called for multiple times (that’s why the forum needs cleanup ultra ;) ) and are simply too resource intensive to be expected anytime soon 

1. auction house restriction:

that is very unlikely to happen, as the value of a card changes naturally over time, there has been an alternative approach to fix the scamming problem by providing players with data on the average price payed in recent period but that will take a long time to get set up too, but is not restricting players

2. more promos / card variants in general / card backgrounds

technically doable, but requires the artwork to be created and ingame animations / models aswell

this is very time intensive and currently no priority

3. Desired cards

Perhaps this could be done by adding a tab or filter for the inventory „desired cards“ and  one can add cards to that by right clicking on them in the auction house and a menu would appear then, given that not all cards might be in ah at all times this would preferable require a card base tab instead where all available obtainable cards ingame would be shown. This ofc is another feature that first needs to be developed to make the original suggestion work, hence not anytime soon

4. 6Vs6 no Teams and 12 player

as u say urself that requires first creation of that mode, then balancing and then as u demand even make it possible that players can easily create themselves, sounds almost impossible to me. Also getting 12 players for one game with the amount of players online ... 

Time horizon: years or never

5. balancing cards

gonna happen after the reset, easier said than done 

6. Decks greater than 20 cards

needs to fit on players screen, apart from that this probably could work to be implemented

Edited by LEBOVIN

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Posted (edited)
On 4/20/2020 at 5:50 AM, LEBOVIN said:

1. auction house restriction:

that is very unlikely to happen, as the value of a card changes naturally over time, there has been an alternative approach to fix the scamming problem by providing players with data on the average price payed in recent period but that will take a long time to get set up too, but is not restricting players

2. more promos / card variants in general / card backgrounds

technically doable, but requires the artwork to be created and ingame animations / models aswell

this is very time intensive and currently no priority

3. Desired cards

Perhaps this could be done by adding a tab or filter for the inventory „desired cards“ and  one can add cards to that by right clicking on them in the auction house and a menu would appear then, given that not all cards might be in ah at all times this would preferable require a card base tab instead where all available obtainable cards ingame would be shown. This ofc is another feature that first needs to be developed to make the original suggestion work, hence not anytime soon

4. 6Vs6 no Teams and 12 player

as u say urself that requires first creation of that mode, then balancing and then as u demand even make it possible that players can easily create themselves, sounds almost impossible to me. Also getting 12 players for one game with the amount of players online ... 

Time horizon: years or never

5. balancing cards

gonna happen after the reset, easier said than done 

6. Decks greater than 20 cards

needs to fit on players screen, apart from that this probably could work to be implemented

Thanks for the compliments and great response to the suggestions with valid points made.

(Restrictions are important in game design to make each creative or ambitious idea work effectively well...)

1: "The Auction" for example would have the "Incredible Mo" card, sell from 250bfp-450bfp as the restriction price range allowed, so that players never see it reach 800bfp or ridiculous unnecessary prices that waste time, since almost nobody buys them that high without already having asked for the normal price. When players see the ridiculous price, it tends to cause others to do the same to make it seem a legit price for the card. This restriction by design, would effectively remove the absurd card prices, allowing all players to get what they deserve for the card sold. This prevents the wasted time players experience currently, sometimes having to wait 2-5 days (or longer) to see card prices drop back to normal prices for certain cards. This restriction can actually be done within just 3 days to apply it to the game, and perhaps to launch the update with it effectively, given it's basic coding format required to do this. In fact a tutorial on Youtube or Google could teach a freelancer to code this type of format into a game in a few hours, so this type of update would just demand a care to do it, rather than too many resources. Each card would have its restriction applied so that the auction is not abused, and all players can be satisfied with reasonable results. Whenever a game designer creates an idea, they must support it, and balance it well so that it doesn't harm the experience for players, especially newcomers. EA and the previous developers of Battleforge failed to fix the auction, and the game was forced into failure due to the lack of fixes, balancing, additional content, and effective expansions done properly. This quick single week Auction House Fix can make a major difference for all players looking to improve their deck without feeling a miserable experience waiting far too long to get a single decent card that's over priced. This is certainly the most reasonable update option that the developers could apply to the game very soon if they wanted to make it work.

 

- 1 compromising option to test progressively, with the option to remove it if it's abused, would be to allow players to sell cards normally in auction, with the restriction update for each card applied (as in effect), such as Avatar of Frost allowed to sell for 1600bfp-2000bfp, but never 3000bfp-4000bfp (prices based on the normal community rate, and not the overpriced rates). This fix can make Promo cards more possible for players to purchase, without being so absurd that they just give up and quit the game, such as Promo Juggernaut selling for 5000bfp-8000bfp, instead of 20,000bfp-48,000bfp.

- With a compromising addition of absurd prices being allowed still, by creating the option for players to post "Donation Cards," where the card is not sold as a normal auction house card, but makes it obvious that the card is overpriced so players with enough bfp to spare, can choose whether to buy the clearly expensive card, just to donate to these players in need of bfp, or perhaps deserving of it, or just as a generous surprise for the community member, yet also nobody has to buy it either. This "Donation Cards" section added to the Auction House UI as a selling option for players, can also allow sellers to under sell a card, where they sell cards for very cheap, just to surprise card collectors with great deals as they improve their decks with satisfied results from supporting each other in the community with generous deals to come by. This would also sort the "Normal Prices" in the auction restrictions main section, from the "Donation Cards Prices" section (within the auction) of the too expensive cards for fun, and too cheap of cards, just because a player can sell it that way to for a buyers enjoyment in the game.

 

2: True "more Promo cards" would require much more than basic coding, whereas the Auction House's simple, yet effective solution, and a big part of deck progression given how the game rewards cards. It would still be cool to at least see a Giant Wyrm promo card since the dragon is so commonly used in most decks in the game, to a point of deserving to be a promo card, as the promo may also end up the most used promo card in the game, which would be great for the Skylord content creators/ developers.

 

3: I find "Card Reserves" being another basic programming option for the game, but the UI format design would require a new additional layout section for players to interact with, which would take some time to create along with the basic coding to go with it, which I would say 1-2 weeks can be enough to finish "Card Reserves" with just 2-4 people designing it for the game. The Card reserves as said before, would either go into a reserves list upon selecting from a "full roster" of cards in the game, thus slotting them into reserve list slots, or the option to slot for reserve into a deck that's already made, so that players know what deck that card they get is going to be for, without forgetting. I've done Blueprint coding for Unreal Engine 4, used Photoshop Cs6, and Zbrush 4.0r7, including Blender with FBX transfer files of trees with animations imported into Unreal Engine 4. I've created UI for for unit Class type selections, and providing Hover-Descriptions for how each Class type functions best from its core purpose, done on my own within 2 weeks.

 

4: Yes "6 v 6 as teams, and a 12 player no teams," but this of course would require a lot of play testing, trial and error, time, and resources to make it truly work well effectively without issues. Also to make it standout as an enjoyable experience on its own. The player Map Creator doesn't have to be done at all, but I would advise another basic coding options to allow players to choose more custom options to setup a pvp match or pve, which leads into the next suggestion as to what the main option can be.

 

5: "Additional card slots" would be another basic programming feature, that can be done within 1 week, but is a matter of the new developers interest and agreement to these new suggestions to quite an extent. As these additional slots don't have to be forced on players, and can be a new additional option, that's apart of the already setup custom options prior to hosting matches for players. The option of course can be a "1-5 /or 1-10" additional slots at first to see how players respond to the additional experience, and then to determine if it's enough or not. Of course this addition as said before, would make for interesting diverse decks, and allow players to fit just the right amount of cards they've always wanted in a single deck combo, so they can add just enough cards to build the deck they've wanted to make without feeling there's not enough. This option made as optional, also makes is an addition that does more good than harm, since it's not forced on players either, which can make it a win, win addition to the game. Everyone can be happy with it, but of course it comes down to focusing on getting it done, since this is another basic programming feature.

 

6: More "Card Background Styles" and card "Balancing," are not as necessary as the core additions suggested here, but are posted here anyways because they can support the game designers with additional content ideas they can consider as they further work on the game, or choose to leave it as is in its current already playable state, but getting too repetitive with nothing added in what seems like a long time. No signs of development over the past month I've been on, so nobody knows what to expect here, future wise for Battleforge.

 

(The core additions here that can be done within a month's time are the "Auction Restrictions, Card Reserves, and Additional Card Slot Custom options when hosting missions pve or pvp...as these are reasonable suggestions that can be done with 1-5 developers. I'm not sure if the developers currently on the project are freelancers, or college graduates, but a college graduate at game design or lead development, would certainly be able to pull these off within a month or sooner by themselves. Hopefully new additions make it into Battleforge, but we can accept it if it's left as it is as well...)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Legendary_Apocalypse

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If it is all so easy and quickly done - that even you could od it in 2 weeks - why don't you ? :) 

I guess you oversee here, that they do not have the code of the game. So maybe they can make all those "easy" features working on their own, but actually implementing to the game simply does not work. 

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9 minutes ago, LEBOVIN said:

I guess you oversee here, that they do not have the code of the game. So maybe they can make all those "easy" features working on their own, but actually implementing to the game simply does not work. 

How did the developers managed to make changes to the game (such as daily quest) when they don't have the code for the game?

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Cause such changes are built on something that exists, and alteration of that, instead of implementing something new.

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1 hour ago, LEBOVIN said:

Cause such changes are built on something that exists, and alteration of that, instead of implementing something new.

You cannot change the code if you don't have the code.

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18 minutes ago, macabi said:

You cannot change the code if you don't have the code.

All of the code for quest system is done server side, this has nothing to do with the actual game code. The only thing done in the client is to actually display these quests, which is what you see in the quest interface. 

That is inherently different to the actual code of the game, such as in the client, which contains stuff like game mechanics, AI behavior. This code is obfuscated and encrypted in a way that we still until now only have limited knowledge of its contents.

Not to say that it isn’t possible, but things like 6vs6 pvp or 12P may be very close to that. BattleForge was not designed to be a MMO so connecting 6 sessions into one game was already a feat in itself back in the day, developing more slots for players, especially with our limited resources, is no easy task. However, maybe there exists a way to develop 6P PvE based on the existing 3v3 PvP infrastructure.

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35 minutes ago, Ultrakool said:

All of the code for quest system is done server side, this has nothing to do with the actual game code. The only thing done in the client is to actually display these quests, which is what you see in the quest interface. 

That is inherently different to the actual code of the game, such as in the client, which contains stuff like game mechanics, AI behavior. This code is obfuscated and encrypted in a way that we still until now only have limited knowledge of its contents.

Not to say that it isn’t possible, but things like 6vs6 pvp or 12P may be very close to that. BattleForge was not designed to be a MMO so connecting 6 sessions into one game was already a feat in itself back in the day, developing more slots for players, especially with our limited resources, is no easy task. However, maybe there exists a way to develop 6P PvE based on the existing 3v3 PvP infrastructure.

Interesting.

What about the cards themselves? are they defined in the server where you have the ability to change them as well as making new cards using existing skins?

Did EA refuse to give you the game code?

IMO, priority should be given to resolving existing issues vs new features such as 6P PvE.

Game freezes is common where it happens daily while dealing with the AH, upgrading cards, and navigating through the menus.  

That must be a server issues where you have 100% control.

I reported these issues couple a months ago along with all the game logs and I believe they haven't been resolved yet.

Perhaps you can improve the log reports so they can give you more information about the root causes.

There is also a common issue where Unranked 2v2 PvP doesn't give gold when a player quits the game when defeat is obvious.

Then there is the "play any type of game" quest that doesn't take to consideration games shorter than 10 minutes.

That should be easy to fix.

PvP games are usually shorter than 10 minutes so they usually don't count towards that quest.

These are the main issues I have encountered.

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@Legendary_Apocalypse I am interested from what you compute these times. But if you think it is that easy, why you not add a patch file to your post with the changes implemented, you have access to same "BattleForge.exe" as everyone else.

4 hours ago, Ultrakool said:

This code is obfuscated and encrypted

What you get the source code now? If I would know you get the source code I would just make myself look offline for the few weeks before leaving :P 

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6 hours ago, macabi said:

What about the cards themselves? are they defined in the server where you have the ability to change them as well as making new cards using existing skins? They are defined in client.

Did EA refuse to give you the game code? They didn't refuse anything, it's their right not to share their Intellectual Property for free.

IMO, priority should be given to resolving existing issues vs new features such as 6P PvE. Agreed, solving issues over QoL changes and small additions.

That must be a server issues where you have 100% control. Nope, the client "chockes" a bit, server has mostly nothing to do with it. All the freezes are from the client.

I reported these issues couple a months ago along with all the game logs and I believe they haven't been resolved yet. Slowly, but surely it will be.

Perhaps you can improve the log reports so they can give you more information about the root causes. Easier said than done.

There is also a common issue where Unranked 2v2 PvP doesn't give gold when a player quits the game when defeat is obvious. Will be fixed eventually.

Then there is the "play any type of game" quest that doesn't take to consideration games shorter than 10 minutes. Also will be fixed eventually.

We all freelancers, doing this in free time, with no source code. We had to reverse engineer binaries for over 2 years to be able to pull some of the updates you already see on the server. It's not matter of weeks or a month as everything we'd like to do takes enormously large amount of time due to the lacking of source code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_emulator

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7 minutes ago, fiki574 said:

We all freelancers, doing this in free time, with no source code. We had to reverse engineer binaries for over 2 years to be able to pull some of the updates you already see on the server. It's not matter of weeks or a month as everything we'd like to do takes enormously large amount of time due to the lacking of source code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_emulator

Thank you for your answers.

Good luck to you with your hard work.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, fiki574 said:

We all freelancers, doing this in free time, with no source code. We had to reverse engineer binaries for over 2 years to be able to pull some of the updates you already see on the server. It's not matter of weeks or a month as everything we'd like to do takes enormously large amount of time due to the lacking of source code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_emulator

I'm not sure if yall like a good morning Coffee, or Tea, but here's a little article based on my experience as a game designer, with familiarity working with others on projects. Basically, I don't have the time to learn coding apart from the game I'm already designing myself, and the good news is that I never run out of designing ideas for my game, and solutions to support those ideas for a stable implementation. Since I'm already a core designer, but have knowledge of what coding and blueprinting is like, I can setup task priorities, analyze a programmers progress from experience, and advise solutions that they can code based on the established agenda I've designed, but perhaps sometimes they don't think of a solution, so the foundation and having 1 already in place as backup, helps a lot. It's all a collaborative process I understand, and firing in my opinion if they aren't quitting, would be reasonable if they aren't meeting the expectations and demands of certain tasks to have done, which they would of had to claim they could effectively do certain tasks prior to their hiring, which is why it's so important to know who we hire before just accepting them into certain projects.

Reverse Engineering, going through already setup code, and trying to figure out what each portion of code applies to what, or how it's supposed to be applied, I imagine is much more difficult than just starting from scratch. I give props for what's already been done for sure, as I personally prefer design, and solutions through structural design, because I guarantee the ability to constantly provide new creations that somehow come to my mind, including mechanics, and engaging content to keep audiences interested. Designing is like programming, but instead of writing code, you're creating the structure of the element, rather than coding it to do it's function that the designer plans out, prior to sending it to the programmer. Despite this talent, coding I feel goes very well with designing because the designer often times provides the foundation, and a programmer enjoys making the concept actually function beyond just the design or concept illustration. Programmers get paid a ton these days, as it's very demanding, similar to someone who never runs out of designs to create, that provides an effective never ending foundation or layout plan to expand upon for the programmers. Assuring a strong future.

I've been an artist for a long time, and so if I envision something, I can draw it up and make it an officially applied design to have implemented via 3D software and transfer into a game engine with the already planned out structure of its functions, aware of certain boundaries not to cross in game design. A game designer basically establishes the entire foundation of a game (hopefully not too ambitious or overwhelming), the objectives, the lore of story structure, the controls, how damage, animations, and interactions are supposed to turn out, and makes all tasks easier on those applying the intended functions to the designs via programming or etc, by also having fallback solutions ready if plan A, B, or C don't turn out as well as plan D, E...or Z for example.

Ultimately Battleforge wasn't allowed to continue, likely in part because they were running out of content to create to keep players interested, and the investors didn't see an effective road map for the future of the game, so shut it down, including with the success of Fortnite, and next gen content EA found more interest in. Plus the way they made progress so slow, and so expensive while having very little content, ultimately running the game into the ground. I personally don't enjoy programming, because I enjoy creating the designs that a programmer can give or apply the envisioned functions to, as a designer often has attention to details that a programmer isn't familiar with. As the programmer generally is very good at assigned tasks, whereas a designer can create a task where there was nothing to go off of, thus allowing both to build upon the foundation once established. There's a thrill to both sides being done effectively and properly, but for me it's the designing aspects coming up with unique creations from nothing that I enjoy most, versus programming functions to make a design do as it's already intended, which for some, their thrill is making another person's design function how they would like it to, which ultimately makes the highly collaborative business of game design how it is today. An example would be Lego building instructions, I would design the instructions, and the programmer would put it together to function. I enjoy the design aspect of the creation, and the programmer might enjoy the applied function aspects of the creation as their preferred challenge. I would create the challenge, and programmer solves the challenge as hopefully intended.

Basically what I've posted here were strong ideas or solutions I knew would be effective, but unfortunately even with the suggestions, it seems none of us have the time to put into Battleforge additional or expansive content, especially given how complex it must be to use already created code, with no original coders support, thus taking much longer. At least the suggestions are here, if anyone else has the time to add these smaller tasks into Battleforge. As I do wish the game was still being developed with new content. Some of these tasks obviously are very basic when you're working with a crew of 20+ programmers, but there's only 5 or so working on Battleforge, so I imagine the process is quite slow, which I can't slow down my projects either, but I am committed to the main projects fully as a game designer. It's too bad Battleforge ended up this way, but maybe it will continue to be passed on and never really die out. It's a shame Microsoft, EA, and Blizzard have fired so many talented employees for their own mistakes, which shows we have to be more careful who we pitch our projects to. 

                                                                              //////////////////////////       ///////////////////////////

Enjoy the rest of your weeks! :)                                 > ------              **..**.*     ...               ----- <  

Edited by Legendary_Apocalypse

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Legendary_Apocalypse said:

Reverse Engineering, going through already setup code, and trying to figure out what each portion of code applies to what, or how it's supposed to be applied, I imagine is much more difficult than just starting from scratch.

I stopped reading there since you don't seem to understand the basis and actual point of the reverse engineering - there is no access to any source code whatosever. There was no pre-setup, readable, compileable code given to us at any point that we could "just inspect and change". We had to reverse the software behavior from already existing binaries, executables, DLLs, PAKs. That's the exact opposite of software engineering, and game design in itself. This has nothing to do with the game design. You've written much, but said very little and missed the points I was refering to with my previous post.

Edited by fiki574

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, fiki574 said:

I stopped reading there since you don't seem to understand the basis and actual point of the reverse engineering - there is no access to any source code whatosever. There was no pre-setup, readable, compileable code given to us at any point that we could "just inspect and change". We had to reverse the software behavior from already existing binaries, executables, DLLs, PAKs. That's the exact opposite of software engineering, and game design in itself. This has nothing to do with the game design. You've written much, but said very little and missed the points I was refering to with my previous post.

Based on wiki facts that you posted, reverse engineering does involve taking code from software, or any project source code, and making adjustments to establish improvements, or understanding the purpose of the code, should there be any provided at all. In which case we are both correct, but according to what you're saying, you have nothing on terms of coding that was applied to Battleforge when EA had it, otherwise I wouldn't be missing anything from what I've already pointed out. This is all good to know, and at least the suggestions are here if they ever get implemented into this game. Otherwise, I'm enjoying the collaboration involving my own game design project, and some popular youtube streamers involved as well who I met at a Pax event a few years ago. From what I can tell though, there just won't be time to do what I've suggested, and maybe you'll do your own similar project to this, once you're finished with Battleforge, so additional content seems unlikely at this point beyond touching up already existing mechanics.

Fair enough, and understandable. Furthermore, what I pointed out was the difference between a developer, and the game designer, since I was asked to do the coding of the suggestions, but the game designer designs the foundation through conceptual design and illustrations, in order to establish how everything is intended to turn out. Simply put, the designer works with the developer, and I'm a game designer, but I don't have time to work on Battleforge myself, therefore I posted my knowledge of improvements that can be made.

At the end of the day, it's about pitching the projects effectively to investors, or opening our own business to have complete control over the process of the projects. Something I've prepared my projects for, and goodluck with yours as well! :) 

Edited by Legendary_Apocalypse
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