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macabi

New Quest Suggestion

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I noticed that many players stick to the best cards and as a result many cards are not being used that often.

That is too bad since many of these fairly unused cards are fun to play with thanks to their special abilities.

Therefore I would like to suggest the following new quest:

"Play with 100 different cards" where only 5+ minute games will be considered for this quest.

I would also suggest making this quest very desirable by giving a booster as a reward for this quest.

 

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This should be a quest.

A player will have to play with at least 5 different decks and play all cards in each deck to achieve this quest.

So that is at least 5 different games where minimum play time for each game is 5 minutes.

So I would say that expert players could achieve that in 45-60 minutes where average players such as myself could complete that in 3+ hours.

I play one hour a day, so for me it would take 3-4 days before I complete this quest.

This quest won't show every day because we have other quests that show up randomly.

Therefore this quest would appear every other day.

This should be fun.

Players will be encouraged to play with cards they never used before and I am sure they will enjoy the experience.

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Posted (edited)

Before kubik says it, let’s define cards in a way that playing with different upgrades will be considered as still the same card ;)

also

The cards need to be played out right? Not just being in the deck.

Edited by LEBOVIN

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My main problem with this is that it would be quest that can be completed under hour, or in a weeks, so it will again widen the gap between the players.

The fastest of current quests can be done in about 3 minutes, but global average per game mode reach 137 minutes.

That means some people can have quests completed instantly and for some it will takes multiple days.

Adding quest that would take some players weeks to complete is not a good idea in my opinion.

And one more inmortant thing is that some people do not even have 100 cards.

Imagine someone working on that quest second week, do you think that person will remember which cards was already used, and which not?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Kubik said:

My main problem with this is that it would be quest that can be completed under hour, or in a weeks, so it will again widen the gap between the players.

The fastest of current quests can be done in about 3 minutes, but global average per game mode reach 137 minutes.

That means some people can have quests completed instantly and for some it will takes multiple days.

Adding quest that would take some players weeks to complete is not a good idea in my opinion.

And one more inmortant thing is that some people do not even have 100 cards.

Imagine someone working on that quest second week, do you think that person will remember which cards was already used, and which not?

Kubik,

It's really simple.

to achieve playing with 100 cards players need to build 5 different decks which is easy to do and easy to track.

It's easy to play all 20 cards in RPvE or Campaign PvE (only physically played cards would be considered).

For new players such games can take 30-60 minute per game.

So if a player plays 2 games a day on average, then he would achieve this quest on the third day.

The reward is a booster, so winning that after 3 days is reasonable.

New players can easily accumulate 100 cards by buying common cards in the market for only 3 BFP.

As I mentioned earlier, only 5 minute games will be considered, and you can increase that to 10 minutes games if you wish.

So assuming 10 minute games, then expert players would achieve such quest after an hour of game play if they manage to complete each game in 10 minutes.

You can restrict such quest to appear only once every 3 days to even the field.

This way both new players and expert players will complete this quest every 3 days and both groups will be rewarded evenly.

Edited by macabi

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What about people that do not have 100 cards, and play less than one game per day, because for them is hard to win standard map under 2 hours?

I do not know about you but there is a lot of players that would not have big problem if the deck would have only 10 slots, or even less, because they do not even use these cards, so to me it seems kile forcing people to play 90 cards they do not have, and do not want to play.

And again how should someone keep remembering what cards they already played to not waste 2-3 hours with same deck as last week.

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2 minutes ago, Kubik said:

What about people that do not have 100 cards, and play less than one game per day, because for them is hard to win standard map under 2 hours?

I do not know about you but there is a lot of players that would not have big problem if the deck would have only 10 slots, or even less, because they do not even use these cards, so to me it seems kile forcing people to play 90 cards they do not have, and do not want to play.

And again how should someone keep remembering what cards they already played to not waste 2-3 hours with same deck as last week.

Kubik,

I accumulated more than 100 cards after one week by playing one hour a day.

New players get extra booster after 10 quests and then another booster after 20 additional quests, so they are compensated for the beginning while they accumulate their cards.

As I said earlier, completing a 75 BFP quest will allow them to buy 25 new cards in the market for 3 BFP each.

They can also sell rare cards from their boosters to get extra BFP to buy cheaper cards.

Therefore after one week new players should be able to compile 5 different decks that each has 20 different cards.

So they don't need to track which cards to play with.

They just need to remember which decks they played with before which is easy to do.

There are many cards that are not being used by players.

This quest will encourage them to play with more cards and it will enhance their their game experience.

Also, winning a booster is the highlight of the day.

So being able to win an extra booster every 3 days will make players more excited about the game.

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lets count new player start:
first day nothing, second day nothing, third day nothing, fourth day he finally complete the quest play 2,5 hours -> 3 boosters = 81 cards (assuming no duplicates).
after that player get normal quests, so it rake 6-8 playing games to reach 100 cards by opening boosters, which is bit better than I think.

But which colors can new player use? Frost do no damage. Fire dies instantly. Shadow is weird and week. Nature does damage, have heals so the units does not die that often. So it would force them to play these bad colors, and not win the match, because they would have these week colors. So they would need to chose do they want to win, or lose and progress with the quest?

Average active players play less than 1,5 games per day (that average include all speedrunners). So it means that for most players it would be over 5 days, even if they would manage to create 5 playable decks with 100 unique cards. I can not even imagine players keeping track of deck they already used for more than a week without a notes.

Sorry it still sound to me like quest for expert players, that play all colors that can just complete is as part of their normal play without even creating many decks for it.
And normal players would need to chose if they want to play to win for one quest, or lose for quest they will need to play at least 5 other matches to.

And playing all 20 cards from deck every match seems insane.

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2 hours ago, Kubik said:

lets count new player start:
first day nothing, second day nothing, third day nothing, fourth day he finally complete the quest play 2,5 hours -> 3 boosters = 81 cards (assuming no duplicates).
after that player get normal quests, so it rake 6-8 playing games to reach 100 cards by opening boosters, which is bit better than I think.

But which colors can new player use? Frost do no damage. Fire dies instantly. Shadow is weird and week. Nature does damage, have heals so the units does not die that often. So it would force them to play these bad colors, and not win the match, because they would have these week colors. So they would need to chose do they want to win, or lose and progress with the quest?

Average active players play less than 1,5 games per day (that average include all speedrunners). So it means that for most players it would be over 5 days, even if they would manage to create 5 playable decks with 100 unique cards. I can not even imagine players keeping track of deck they already used for more than a week without a notes.

Sorry it still sound to me like quest for expert players, that play all colors that can just complete is as part of their normal play without even creating many decks for it.
And normal players would need to chose if they want to play to win for one quest, or lose for quest they will need to play at least 5 other matches to.

And playing all 20 cards from deck every match seems insane.

Kubik,

I consider myself as an average player (since I easily lose every game against an expert player).

I play one hour a day and get a new booster every day as well as 75-150 BFP a day for completing one or two quests.

New players can buy many good common cards with their BFP for 3-5 BFP for each card.

I already have 300+ cards in less than 2 months including FireDancer,  and Avatar which I bought with BFP (cost me a fortune).

It's true that it would take a week or two for new players to assemble 100 playable cards.

Initially they will have to create 7-8 decks (Nature/Fire, Nature/Frost, Nature/Shadow, Fire/Shadow, Fire/Frost, Shadow/Frost, Nature/Frost/Fire) to achieve the 100 unique cards.

So yes, it may take them a week to complete this quest initially but within a few weeks they will have many new cards and they should be able to shift to 5 unique decks and achieve this quest every 3 days.

I play all or almost all 20 cards when I play rPvE and most cards with I play a campaign.

Wining standard campaign games on Standard is easy enough even without the best cards and it doesn't matter even if  they lose the game as long as they play for 10 minutes which they will.

Winning a booster is very exciting so winning extra booster every 3 days or so will add to the excitement and encourage players to play with larger variety of cards which is good thing.

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I already agreed that having 100 unique cards would not be that big problem, but having 100 cards I can play would be.

With Fire/Shadow it is hard to get to T2 even with fully upgraded cards on standard.

If you play every day and complete 1 or 2 quests you are already way above average. Why you think average player play PvP at all?

unfortunatelly "encourage players to play with larger variety of cards which is good thing" can be also said as "force players to play with cards that prevent them enjoying the game"

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Posted (edited)

Guys we are in stress, so it is the best time to test out new quests concepts.

@Kubik if you can actually implement that quest (to live servers cause honestly the data u get from test server is meh 😕) for let us say a week (at best even make it refresh each day like the booster) and then after that week assess how it went, e.g. how many people completed it, how many completed it 7 times, what lvl were those players. Based on the results it might be easier to decide here.

The influence it has in bfp gains on the market are completely irrelevant at this point anyway. That week is not gonna disrupt economy.

Edited by LEBOVIN

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It definetely would be nice to have a questline in which boosters/cards (like legendaries)/gold, NO BFP can be earned.

Questlines should focus on encouraging new decks and get people to do something than grinding same old maps. Maybe even include communitymaps in a way.

It wouldnt widen the gaps in the long run because it would be a one-time reward.

For the "play 100 different cards" Quest to make sense there would have to be Quests beforehand, that reward the player with new cards.

It would be cool to have those boosters back from Battleforge where you had only commons/uncommons/very low% rare chance.

 

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13 hours ago, Kubik said:

I already agreed that having 100 unique cards would not be that big problem, but having 100 cards I can play would be.

With Fire/Shadow it is hard to get to T2 even with fully upgraded cards on standard.

If you play every day and complete 1 or 2 quests you are already way above average. Why you think average player play PvP at all?

unfortunatelly "encourage players to play with larger variety of cards which is good thing" can be also said as "force players to play with cards that prevent them enjoying the game"

It sounds to me that your main objection is for playing such high number of cards.

So how about making it 70 unique cards, or even less than that if you wish.

It will encourage players to play with different decks, and give them one extra booster every 3 days at most.

 

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I actually like this idea, and more importantly, I like the idea of weekly quests that grant a sizable reward and only refresh once per week.

In addition to "play 100 different cards" (which I agree is high, but 50 might be a good spot where you could complete it in about 5 games without seriously contorting your deck), you could have weekly quests to:

-mail someone 100 bfp for free (encourage helping new players)

-play 1 pvp game, 1 rpve game, and 1 campaign game (encourage trying different game modes)

-place 20 cards on auction (help stimulate the AH)

-play 10 sunstriders, forsaken, master archers, and windweavers (encourage deck variety).

I like weekly quests because it might help "once-per-week binge" players from falling too far behind "play 2 rpve 6 games per day" players.

Another way to encourage deck variety (without weekly quests) would be achievements for upgrading certain cards to U3. If players had all the essential cards for each faction upgraded at U3 they would be more likely to try new decks.

@Kubik I think I use all 20 cards in most of my games (maybe not disenchant if there are no willzappers, and mybe no t3 in pvp if I lost already)

How did you get that statistic for 1.5 games per active player? That means that on a given day, all players who played a game averaged 1.5 games?

Also, the 81 cards from beating the starting quest doesn't count the (50?) starting cards, so all players will have over 100 cards by the time they are allowed to have quests. That said, I think 100 unique cards is still a lot if you only play rpve, since many cards overlap with most rpve decks (everyone will take regrowth in almost every deck, for example). But you won't take regrowth in pvp maps and maybe not in certain campaign maps, so I don't think 100 different cards is especially unreasonable.

If people are playing standard campaign maps, they can play basically anything they want. In harder rpve maps nature t1 definitely seems the strongest, but frost mages, firesworn, forsaken, phase tower, mine, thugs, etc are all good and are maybe better than nature (I doubt you'll ever see a speedrunner start nature t1). My wife started nature t1 (because I told her it was the easiest) but then she decided she liked phase tower spam better. She only tried it because I forced her to play different colors (otherwise she just wanted to play with the first deck she became familiar with). Of course, now she's glad I made her try other colors, so it would be cool if there was some reward to force players to try new colors.

In PvP, nature t1 is rare :)
So I don't think players will lose because they are trying to play new cards to get this quest. If they really want the quest, they can always do a campaign map.

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"-mail someone 100 bfp for free (encourage helping new players)" no way that come trougm me. There are other games that tried that, and result was new players was sponsoring welthy players, not the other way around.

"-play 1 pvp game, 1 rpve game, and 1 campaign game" I still think it forces players to play game modes they do not want. Sugestion to fix: alternative condition to play much more games in game mode they want. But that still seems very exploitable :(

"-place 20 cards on auction" your outcame is only one of 3 that would happen, you would see very expensive cards for 3 :bf: so welthy players would be able to get them for cheap, and cards offered for 100 000 :bf: or more, because player want that card back. If there would be bonus for actually selling the card it would limit the second problem, but would make the first one worse.

"-play 10 sunstriders, forsaken, ..." that forces people to create 4 color deck start game spawn 10 units destroy orb, kill units, and start another color, because for many players especially "sunstriders, and forsaken" are useless in combat.

"How did you get that statistic" all players that was online in last 7 days, and total average.

"If people are playing standard campaign maps, they can play basically anything they want." not true, you have probably no idea how easy it is to lose standard map with fully upgraded cards after hour or two.

Why you think PvP results will be affected by cards?

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Kubik,

Would you be OK with a new quest that require players to play with 50 different cards instead of 100?

 

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On 3/10/2020 at 12:23 AM, Kubik said:

"-mail someone 100 bfp for free (encourage helping new players)" no way that come trougm me. There are other games that tried that, and result was new players was sponsoring welthy players, not the other way around.

"-play 1 pvp game, 1 rpve game, and 1 campaign game" I still think it forces players to play game modes they do not want. Sugestion to fix: alternative condition to play much more games in game mode they want. But that still seems very exploitable :(

"-place 20 cards on auction" your outcame is only one of 3 that would happen, you would see very expensive cards for 3 :bf: so welthy players would be able to get them for cheap, and cards offered for 100 000 :bf: or more, because player want that card back. If there would be bonus for actually selling the card it would limit the second problem, but would make the first one worse.

"-play 10 sunstriders, forsaken, ..." that forces people to create 4 color deck start game spawn 10 units destroy orb, kill units, and start another color, because for many players especially "sunstriders, and forsaken" are useless in combat.

"How did you get that statistic" all players that was online in last 7 days, and total average.

"If people are playing standard campaign maps, they can play basically anything they want." not true, you have probably no idea how easy it is to lose standard map with fully upgraded cards after hour or two.

Why you think PvP results will be affected by cards?

Well, I see a lot of charity in the game anyway. If you get 150 bfp for mailing 100 bfp to someone, not sure why wealthy players wouldn't also give it away. But I still think they'd give away to new players.

Is it really to much to make players play 1 game mode they don't want, once per week? :) 

I think only wealthy people would sell cards for cheap on AH if there is a reward. New players are more likely to be afraid of selling for too cheap. There could be a bonus for actually selling the card on the AH, but imo just putting it up is the best. I don't sell stuff on the AH because I am too lazy :) If there were some incentive then I would sell at regular price, that's probably true for most players who have the cards/bfp they need and simply don't participate in AH because of laziness. New players probably spend more time on AH than experienced players, so random cheap cards probably benefits new players anyway.

Do you know the most-used fire, nature, frost, and shadow t1 cards (or pure cards?) Maybe you can give me top 3 of each because I'm sure surge of light is used a lot, but that's basically a t2 card.

Yes, I have no idea how easy it is to lose on standard campaign maps :) I did them in the old days on my first try with starting cards (way worse than current starting cards) and no upgrades for the first time I played the game. Even my wife can easily beat the first few maps on standard.

I think only experienced players would think to game the system by killing their orb and specifically building t1 archer of each faction. Those players can just build new deck though, so not sure why they would.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether we want to encourage players to step out of their comfort zone and achieve new things. If that's not a priority (sounds like it isn't), then we shouldn't do any of these things. If it is a priority, the current reward system does a poor job of it.

(Also, some of these rewards could target experienced players and offer massive amounts of gold, which can be used in voting for promos if we like that system)

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Kubik,

So how about a quest that similar but a little different.

The quest would be - "Play any type of game with Nature/Fire combo" or "Frost/Shadow combo" for 75 BFP.

Such quest will encourage players to play with different decks.

 

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so to complete the quest I would need to have in deck or play at least one nature and one fire card during how long match?

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1 hour ago, Kubik said:

so to complete the quest I would need to have in deck or play at least one nature and one fire card during how long match?

10 minutes for PvE, just like it is today, and 7 minutes for PvP (since PvP games are shorter).

The quest can require two matches just like it is today for campaign PvE but then it should be 100 BFP or more.

I also think that new, and more involved quests that give a booster as a reward would be more exciting.

For example, the quest could be - "Play 4 Campaign PvE or Random PvE matches, one with pure nature, one pure frost, one pure fire and one pure shadow" to receive one booster.

You can then make variations of such quest.

It would be even better to have similar quests for PvP to encourage players to play PvP since it's hard to find PvP games.

In that scenario it could be 6 matches with different 6 deck combos where each match should last at least 7 minutes.

The reward would also be a booster.

These quest would encourage players to play with new decks.

I see the same players play with the same deck every time.

We need to get them out of their comfort zone and encourage them to play with new decks.

That will help keeping them playing the game longer.

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