ImaginaryNumb3r

A very powerful defensive spell that is easily splashable and has an almost non-existent power cost in T3. It is basically Glacier Shell on crack and you see it as a flaw that it does not affect units as well? T_T

I think it is a very good card that comes to shine when you are in T4 and have many units on the field. I am talking about rPvE here, as this card is normally in overkill in pve that only takes a slot. I once made a Stonekin deck for my brother which featured this card and he always kept it. If you can bring it into your stonekin deck, I would certainly do so, but it is simply not a must have. Stonekin already is a very durable deck to begin with and because this effect does not stack with the normal Stonekin damage resistance, it is not quite as good as it might look. There is not really more to say, other than: oh god please don't make Stonekin T2 even stronger. It was about to get nerfed before BF was shut down and you want to give them even more? U_U If anything, I would make this an exclusive Stonekin spell for T4 that does the job it currently does, but better. Make it similar to Twilight Pestilance (blue) but let it keep its uniqueness I would say. Btw. Twilight Pestilance is an insanely good card that makes your units take only half damage.

Yeah, I have read those but I am not completely sold on them. I do think what you proposed are good changes, but I am not sure if that would suffice to make it really worth a slot. In BF, it is often the case that a card is not inheritly bad, but rather the fact that a card simply does not have a place in a deck. As you pointed out, this card can only work as a support structure and not as a sole defense card. And another thing, iIf you want to go for defense, Ncroblaster is a similar and waaaay more powerful option in T3. So I think Waystation is best suited as a macro card that affects units with it's abilities. The debuff on purple would do this very nicely, but still leaves this card with 2 real drawbacks: Gathering souls and slow construction. Oh and btw. even if you really have time to set up your defensive lines... just go for a Necroblaster. Anyway, one of these drawbacks is already enough to make it only semi-okay but as it is, you will never get the opportunity to reap its advantages. A ranged red version could work, but I imagine it being rather cumbersome to use, as waystation will be away from combat and would require souls before you start fighting. If we go for small changes, rapid construction would be a more fun, risky and dynamic solution. You can pressure your enemy into forcing to prioritize it, as otherwise you will reap its benefits instantly. I would even go for a price increase for rapid construction to 75 energy. And if purple, already doesn't work for defense, make it some kind of area of denial card or something aggressive with a really big area of effect. But still, then this card would only be sub-par against large and XL creatures. It really would need a lot of tinkering to keep the mechanic as it is if you want to make it useful. So, I think a complete rework might even be the faster and easier solution.

While the title of the worst card in the game belongs to Willzapper in my opinion, Waystation comes shortly after. To put it nicely the purple affinity is utter crap. Think about it: 600 dmg in 20 seconds for a slow constructing building that requires souls before it can be used. Bandits are not made to stay and last, we often steamroll or get steamrolled. That's the drill. Moreover, an additional damage structure is simply not needed and adds nothing to factions having access to this. It's also boring and passive to play. The red affinity could be used potentially, but as I mentioned, Bandits are an active/pro-aggressive faction are made for movement and quickly changing frontlines. Once this structure is ready to do it's job, your army is either dead already or located at a different spot on the map. I just don't see where this card really fits into. It might not be absolutely terrible because it's only 50 energy, but it's still a wasted slot. Even with a better ability, I find it hard to imagine that this card will ever be played in pvp because slots are scarce in a Bandit deck and their T3 is already good enough. This leaves pve and for this case I actually thought back in the day. I think Bandits could use it as a unique support structure that mimics abilities of some other T2 factions with additional flexibility. There are many ways to make this a really cool support card, but I think this card should simply be a mix of two T1/T2 cards, made for T3. This would make it comparable with Sylvan gate, which is actually a blend of Tunnel and Healing Well. I see the following possibilities: - Breeding Grounds + Banner of Glory - Rallying Banner + Fire Bomb (but with proper damage, of course) - Furance of Flesh + Healing Gradens I could see this being used in r(PvE), but if this would be seen as too strong, an option would be let the abilities only do their work when the structure has gathered souls, first (excluding Furance of Flesh of course). But I am just wishlisting xD I guess a pragmatic approach to balancing it would be for the purple affinity: reasonable damage + big range (outranging fortifications). And for red: Rapid construction

I actually went out early to grab this card and get it before most other people. Because, you know... selling it is much more profitable when there are fewer cards around xD Tried to use it a few times in rPvE before I had proper cards, but after that, it's garbage. Way too high power cost.

@Shotty As a player who had his main deck in Bandits in all game modes, I feel your description does not do them justice. You boil Bandit units down to having lifesteal, but that is only half the truth. In a normal 1 on 1 fight, the 15% lifesteal doesn't do a hell lot, When looking closely at Bandit units you can see that 90% Bandit units have at least one ability/skill that allows them to deal devastating damage. Another thing crucial to Bandits are buffs. With buffs that affect damage input or output, this is where lifesteal really comes to shine and makes units benefit much more than any other unit. Therefore a mantra of Bandit is "maximation of damage output". And this also reflects in their T4 where they can just lay waste to everything and anything. Cluster Explosion + Soulshatter, Tortugun + Unholy Hero or crazily buffed Bloodhorns, backed up by a Shrine of War for almost instant void return. They can have a very rough start at T2, but paradoxically they have hands down the best T2 defense: Commandos and Rioter's Retreat. The amount of damage they can absorb is just insane. Also, Corsair sucks, please don't mention Corsair... Soulhunter on the other hand is a living nightmare. My classification for Bandits into tiers is the following: Bandit T1 Just as you said. But Bandits mostly benefits from Fire T1, Bandit cards like Warrior's Death on Sunderer or Bandit Sorceress on Mortars helps keeping those cards viable in T2. Bandit T2 Extremely unforgiving in pvp but fun and insanely strong in defensive with Rioter's Retreat + Commandos. Overall T2 is not their strength, but they can get a reasonable range of good fire/shadow cards. In rPvE Lavafield + (Liveweaving) Shadow Phoenixes is the way to go, maybe one or two additional ground units. Bandit T3 This is where it gets interesting. They get very good cards from the fire and shadow world and Bandit T3 cards are no joke. Soulhunter is a rampaging monster with lifesteal, while Bandit Lancers are of great utility with their branding (increased range, also counts for Shadow Phoenixes) and Gunners can kill structures easily. But it are the combination of fire and shadow spells that really give them the edge, as well as backing them up with Shrine of War. Don't forget, they retain their buffs from T1/2. Bandit T4 If you can manage Tortugun, you have a mobile weapon of mass destruction (8400 ATK multiplied by 3 with Unholy Power) on your command... or multiples if you wish. Otherwise you can splash for Another fire or Shadow orb. Amok is a great CC, but some also prefer Frenetic Assault (but has shorter range). Bloodhorn is one of the best T4 XL/XL and a clear must have and with Artillery, you even get an amazing defensive building... with life steal! Offering also has great synergy with Tortugun and you can use it on Rifle Cultists too for even more T4 charges... oh and did I mention Cluster Explosion + Soulshatter? All in all, Bandit is a "no risk no fun faction". When you know what you are doing, they have devastating potential, but the lack of "convenient" spells like healing or CC (at least in T1 and T2) makes them a no go for people who care more about macro management than micro management. So, Bandit is actually a finesse faction because you need to know when to utilize your units and abilities to achieve maximum carnage, but when you do... oh my god.

I dunno... which deck really benefits from this card? Sure a T2 M/M never hurts but he is just too expensive for what he does imo. With exceptions of Bandits T2, all factions already got some kind of CC... which is why I tested him in a Bandit deck. However, he just cannot return his investment. He just does not seem to have good synergy with any good card I am familiar with.

As mentioned this card has a very particular niche, but besides that it is just a bad card. At T3 you can get Church of Negation which is basically just as easy to get as Lost Banestone. Unless you know what you are doing, it just requires so much micro for so little gain. Sure, the ice shield buff is nice, but there are other cards that do the same. Btw. I know it's against the rules, but I do have something to say for Tortugun. During the weekend I was on holidays, so I hope an exception could me made this time :3 Mod maybe a mod mind and rearrange this following text so it is displayed after Chimeras post? ^^ I was among the very few who played this card very extensively in Battlegrounds and PvE and agree with completely agree Chimerae. That card is obviously not for everybody, but so is playing pure Bandits. It's my favourite card and a key card in T4 that is used with Unholy Hero to nuke everything from a distance. There are many ways to fix the Amok, one great way is offering it, another one would be to summon multiple Tortuguns and let them eat themselves. A full HP Tortugun will restore the Amok bar almost back to 100%. IIRC some people also used Motivate to sacrifice it. Another imporatnt thing to concern is that once it becomes hungry, it will only start hunting for units when it has finished the last order. If you order it to stop, it will stay there forever and won't eat anything. If you order it to go to the other side of the map, it will do so without eating your units etc. You see, there are a lot of fun possibilities to play around with this card. Sadly the devs "stealth nerfed" this card, as it used to be possible to sacrifice the ones affected by Amok, but they removed that when they nerfed a major void manipulation bug. One more thing to remember is that you can just kill it manually with the "skull icon", for the most dire of situations. If I were to change anything on the card, I would only let it start with 100% of its hunger bar (rather than 50%) and let the restored hunger always be the amount of max health rather than current health. This way, a Bandit player would have another "elegant" way to get rid of badly damaged units and make this unit as well as Bandit T4 in general a tad easier to use.

Thanks a lot for doing the broadcast, too bad I missed it... Btw, regarding Amii monument a lot of players just want to have it as easy as possible. There are only very few instances where it is needed (like PvE 10), but where it is needed, it's a problem with the game and the level of difficulty and nothing else. Often you just see it when people want to rush for T4 just to finish something earlier. It also sucks if multiple players have this card in the deck as only one can actually field it. It certainly is inbalanced and overpowered but naturally, that's why people use it. It's like: "Paper is fine, nerf rock" - Scissors

For T3 Bandit Gunner is actually a good choice as siege unit. However, I'd get Bandit Lancer instead of Shadow Insect as a T3 L counter. Lancers actually have excellent stats for their low power cost and their branding ability can make a lot of T2 units surpsiringly useful in T3 (like shadow Phoenix). I'd also advice Giant Slayers, but since you want a low-budget deck, Mutating Frenzy sounds like a good anti-XL choice as well. Otherwise, I'd drop Nasty Surprise. Bandits dont have much health to make it a good card. Imo, a must have is Warrior's Death. It's a common spell that makes your unit basically unkillable for 20 seconds. Use it on cards which are close to die or on units that die anyway, like Nightcrawler.

[quote='InsaneHawk' pid='4568' dateline='1436823297'] [quote='Mental Omega' pid='4564' dateline='1436823074'] I wonder, since the original BF already gave you 1 bfp for spending 30 minutes of ingame time, can't you differentiate between time spent in the forge/lobby and time spent in maps? [/quote] Yes it is :) [/quote] So, if it's possible what is the big issue with idling players? They won't achieve much if you'd get only BFP for time spent on maps ^^. Edit: oh and btw. you and your crew are awesome!

I wonder, since the original BF already gave you 1 bfp for spending 30 minutes of ingame time, can't you differentiate between time spent in the forge/lobby and time spent in maps?

[quote='MarbSlonk' pid='3080' dateline='1436108123'] [quote='Mental Omega' pid='3004' dateline='1436035383'] [quote='Obesity' pid='2885' dateline='1435965521'] ... [/quote] ... [/quote] I am pretty curious which factions you had in mind ;-) And I agree completely with this post and Obesity's one. The game was fairly balanced, but lots of cards were unused in PvP (same for PvE, but balancing is mainly for PvP). The game could be waaay better and more diversed if you buff some of these as Mental poitned out. I don't quite get what is wrong with some "blindly buffing" when it is done to the right cards. Sunken Temple, Northguards, Rippers and Warlock are all examples of cards for which a stat tweak in power cost, damage, health, or ability power/cost could do wonders. Most of these cards are also generaly known as extremely weak if not useless. And of course: since we/the devs have complete control of the game, a buff that turned out to be a bad choice can be redone in a week or less. [/quote] Basically what Sun Wu already said. The problem of rippers and Northguards are Master Archers and Darkelf Assassins. Imo, those units are slightly too strong. MA have the highest stats among all shooters and counter S on top of it. On a per-point basis they even deal more damage than dual-shot Windweavers who don't have a counter at all -.-'. Sadly, MA spam is a thing. And the ability of DA was broken as well. It was a free "give me more DPS" that outshines the drawback when analyzed numerically. I just think that we should take us time with balancing and not change too many cards at once. I think updates should be made faster than those of Phenomic but you have to see how a buff/nerf changes the meta. And Northguards are already the strongest T1 card on a per-point basis, making it even higher will leave you possibly with an uncounterable unit. And the issue with Rippers were that they don't heal fast enough to be useful as tanks... great job making the tank deal more damage Phenomic. What I meant with blind buffing is that we should not take this topic too light hearted (as already explained). Yes, there are a lot of weak units, but you can achieve so much more by focusing on weak/strong key cards rather than trying to make everything reasonable, that will never happen anyway. And the factions I've always been referring too are always the same: Twilight, Bandits, Lost. @Lagops but we could change the design of cards with crappy design :P

[quote='Obesity' pid='2885' dateline='1435965521'] In my opinion the game was already pretty well balanced. It was possible to reach first place with every colour combination. [/quote] From a high-rank perspective I think it's true and thankfully we don't have unbeatable killer combos anymore. But the stupidly high difference in level of difficulty between colours is unreasonable nonetheless. I don't want that the core mechanics of the game are touched but there are a lot of units which are bad for no reason or have been bugged since release but never got a fix, even-though it would be easy. I think the game would be much more interesting and would offer a lot more variety if we could buff some of the weaker cards to a reasonable level. Now that we have full control of the game why should we not be constantly trying to improve it? However, as I've mentioned before I am against blindly buffing cards and some factions have priority when it comes to balancing.

[quote='Aazrl' pid='2682' dateline='1435859750'] I belive that a T1 swift unit with S and splash attack and shield, that is activated near enemy unit should balance frost :) [/quote] Okay, but it's stats are 100/100 Problem solved, frost fixed. Now let's please focus on Lost Souls and Bandits.

[quote='Obesity' pid='2666' dateline='1435856693'] The issue about balancing is that every person (pro or developer) has a different opinion about it. If i remember the old times... and how much I discussed with people like MaranV or Tyder (which are good players), but their mind was totally messed up. I guess they thought the same about me... On a qualitative level it is impossible to make an real valid choice about buffing or nerving. The only valid way is by doing it on a quantative approach (statistics, win- lose-ratios,...) [/quote] Yeah, I remember quite clearly how many times MaranV wanted to buff frost T1 lol Once, I even made a picture dedicated to him ^^ [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/02.07.15/33xbe1d3i7d4.png[/img]

Let's not forget that with Promo cards you already get 4 cards + all upgrades. So I would make them at least 5 times rarer than their normal equivalent. I could imagine that some promos could be won exclusively by tournaments or all kinds of contests. Or maybe handed as a thank"-you gift" for people who have donated a lot? I wouldn't mind that either. They are no gamechanger after all.

[quote='Pucchin' pid='2378' dateline='1435531244'] Like Northguards? Rly who played these guys when u had Master Archers not to mention most amii common cards was useless (twilight hag, bandit spearmen) or banditos (another northguards but t2 yay!) also lost shades were a bit overnerfed (but still they had place in my ls deck) and tortugun was almost useless too (it would be better to make him unsteable deamon like). [/quote] I think it is a fundamental issue that ranged S creatures have too many advantages over melee ones. You can basically throw anything against S melee creatures to make them completely useless. Knockback, root, big creatures, splash (because they always don't come alone and splitting is yet another issue with them). And regarding Northguards, Master Archers are just stupidly strong. On U3 it has even better stats than Windweavers with double shot and they don't even have a counter! Even more, they are about 50% more efficient than Sunstriders. Just wtf were they thinking. Banditos offer the same issue, only that S creatures suck even more in T2 and DA outclasses every single other S/S option. Another sad thing about Banditos is that it is a spam unit that isn't spammable... great job phenomic balancing guy. However, just because you can't use the cards it doesn't mean they are uselss. I used to have a Twilight pve deck with Treefiends + Twilight Hag and this combo was strong and extremely fun to play. And Bandit Spearmen are actually very good in pvp... only issue is that you have too many must takes in a Bandit deck to have ANY chance at all that you simply can't put them in. First, Tortugun is a she! You can cast girlpower on her. Secondly, it was a ridiculously strong unit when you know how to profit from her. I had pure Bandit decks for rpve and pve and she + offernig rocked the entire map. A few bloodhorns + Lifeweaving to tank the damage while she just annihilates everything from afar. With unholy Hero and against L creatures you can reach up to 37,800 (!!) damage. You just need to know how to use it. Oh yeah, and don't forget life stealing. I also don't get why people limit themself to one Tortugun... if you summon two of them at once, one will eat the other eventually which leaves you with one that has a full hunger bar.

Wish granted. Instead of rain, hail will come constantly from the sky wherever you are. I wish private Battleforge servers are going to start tomorrow already.

[IMG]http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/450353.jpg[/IMG] Bad joke Shade: [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/25.06.15/dmiy98zfbk2r.jpg[/IMG]

[quote='Avenged' pid='1809' dateline='1435101401'] [quote='Necrospaz' pid='162' dateline='1434560265'] Well the community couldn't agree after 1482 pages of "rational debate" I think the idea proposed last time about a "council of the elite" seemed a fairly legit way to do things. As long as all factions/perspectives are voiced properly and not neglected. [/quote] Could work, but even the original BF tried this somewhat. They invited Elendil over (I think? maybe someone else...) to help out afaik, but didn't result in too much I think. Still seems like one of the better options though. [/quote] You need to give people a direction. In such an open game like BF, there is no "one perfect solution" but issues can be fixed with a variety of approaches. And if I am honest, I think many card changes were planned beforehand and the watchlist threads were just opened to give the community at least something to discuss... there were a couple of cards where virtually everybody agreed on a small buff or nerf and we got the complete opposite (that's corsair for you). Imo, if you really care about what the community thinks, create a framework. A specific sequence consisting of several steps which is the same for every card. Quality requires time, and fortunately we have plenty of it. Step 1: Determine which cards are going to be balanced. This phase is crucial. It is important that this is not a selection of random cards, but content that will make a difference for the better. As already mentioned, we need tangible goals, otherwise we achieve not really anything. However, if there would be one or two extra cards without context which are not viable, I'm very fine with that too. Step 2: The authority then chooses a selection for watchlists. At this step, I trust that the devs/council/whoever knows what they are doing and they just choose cards they think are apropriate to accomplish mentioned goals. If general consensus turns out to be that the listed cards are a bad choice, no problem. Players are probably going offtopic anyway and tell what cards would be better suited. Either way, in the second step it should be discussed which good possibilities actually exist. This is an open discussion without a poll and just an exchange of ideas where the best are picked. And in the final step, there will be a vote for each possibility and now it would be the details that are the matter of discussion. Well, that's how I could imagine it at least. I'm not saying it's fool proof, but this was just supposed to be a fast concept and I think that is already better than what we had for the longest time. Anyway, I think we should first just see how it goes and then tweak and adapt the process whenever needed. I think everybody should be able to make his voice be heard.

must be a pirate if he doesn't like ninjas

Alright, here's the rest. Time to nuke this thread. Some of them are not necessarily memes, but funny nonetheless. [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/eaiz3rdqa2n.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/qa46eb2sung.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/lr7rxkv4wjij.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/1sqh6f7dqry6.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/8pm5c13he4p9.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/ly8u3s1cm718.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/ll1ca8zbjz8p.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/p47h93ebd95.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/t1sy71lew2ih.jpg[/img] [img]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/4jpyis9spt4.png[/img] [hr] I had to split this up into 3 posts since you can only have 10 pictures in one post xD [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/tkhbvfwsg99d.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/in1z5i9ubf1o.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/eixent4x6fhh.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/art82d26nsy.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/wkzqkxedmul.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/3dj31rwm5onj.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/n1qp27avmjxx.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/v5pvgqkdk51r.jpg[/IMG] [hr] And then there is this one too: [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/wcs7kb4gfyg.png[/IMG] We all had this problem... [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/65u7o28f4wk.jpg[/IMG] This was published about a year before the game was shut down... [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/mz2eac2ftqss.jpg[/IMG] Poor Knight of Chaos... [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/lw2z7qd1vktm.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/jrwv4ly6ysxd.jpg[/IMG] For those who remember Thor from the old BF forum xD [IMG]http://www11.pic-upload.de/23.06.15/8u4ym1o1th8t.jpg[/IMG]

[quote] Balancing is ever so close to my heart and I agree with much of what Mental Omega wrote for at least phase 1. I understand how an elite council would be biased but if its membership rotated and all colors were constantly represented it might be something to try. I think it also needs to be discussed if we want to have a rock paper scissors approach (like currently pure frost is the rock to pure fire scissors and pure nature was a weak paper in 1v1). I personally do not think it should be that way but we would have to put considerable time into figuring out a way to execute an alternative. (something I don't mind doing in the least) [/quote] I think that there are good ways to create such a council, but is it really necessary anymore? The intent of such a council was ever to lure the power away from EA/Pheonmic and lets us have more control over the game xD I trust the devs and I think they will find a reasonable way to approach this issues, as they are fans just like us :) And I think a rock paper scissors approach can only work with at least 4 or more total players in pvp. Anyway, cool to see another familiar face back! [quote] i feel the same. curse well is super toxic, especially in a frostsplash. i have seen players turtle into t3 and then abuse this with shield building as well. impossible to do anything until you lose with most decks. i am usually not a player who is in favor of bannigs cards, but curse well is just braindead and i see no way to fix this. luckyly it was not that popular... overshadowed by those grigory bombs maybe? [/quote] I completely agree. It's a broken card which does not serve any greater purpose than just being broken. This is the only card I can think of that should never have existed in the first place.

I don't think this is of any priority right now. For now, the devs do their best to make a playable version of the game as soon as possible. I'm sure that eventually this could be made possible, but there is no guarantee. As it stands, it's not even sure if the client is going to get changed (meaning different content), but if so, I think the main issue will be balancing and bug fixing.