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Ragerunner

Reward/Proggression System Suggestion

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Greetings.

I have have played for a while Skylords Reborn, and the developers of all people know best that the game needs some improvements, and mostly at the proggression system.

For those who are not interested in reading the entire post, i have a TL;DR at the bottom of the post , right above the disclaimer section, though reading it all, might give you some insight as to why i have the thought that i'm having.

Here are my thoughts:

Right now: I dont really have to play to get the deck that i like, there are way too few cards in the game that are good, the power gap between the best and the worst cards is way too large, and upgrading cards doesnt feel as good as i would like.

Personaly, for a short while, if i'm to play for a month or two, i like the idea of "play for 30 minutes, get a potentialy 3k BFP card". But if i'm to stay in the game, i need a challenge. A challenge like "ok you have to have the best cards, with the best possible combination of cards with maximum upgrades with the perfect coordination with other people to get it" and that challenge actualy to reward me in-game, that can barely be substituted with some other way. A good example of NOT doing that ,is RPVE difficulty 10 and RPVE difficulty 9. The gold reward is just not worth it for going to RPVE 10, when you can just play RPVE 9. Its going to take way too much time to gather enough people that know what they are doing and are willing to play RPVE 10, than to do RPVE 9.

Why would anybody go for forest elder, when you can just go for lost spirit ship or gemeye or bloodhorn or skycatcher, or even all of these 4 at the same time? The restriction of going 4 same orbs is just not worth it in most cases. Batariel is an exception, but you get the idea.

And now, lets compare 2 cards. Wrecker, and Nomad.

Dont get me wrong, i believe that not all of these are shared between the players, but if there's 1 thing that i need to point out that i dislike the most, is the feeling of progress. Does anybody feel that upgrading Lost Dragon or Lost Grigori , makes the card better? I mean sure!, more hitpoints is good, an active ability is good as well, but can you tell the difference? Upgrading shaman is way more rewarding and it actualy feels like an upgrade.

As far as i'm aware, there are not many people working on the project of restoring battleforge, so here is a suggestion to make your lives easier, of how i would like the game to be, maybe to pick up an idea, or straight up copy paste my suggestion inside the game's code.

My ideal state of the game: 

Card and BFP proggression: Getting the cards should be the first checkpoint of one's proggression. The second one, is upgrading the card. And Upgrading the card, should feel and be more rewarding than it currently is. Getting cards right now is way too easy, and i believe that "playing for x amount of time to get bfp" is not a good way to approach this. A good way to get bfp, to buy the card pack, is only by daily missions. What i prefer, is to have like 2 missions going at the same time, as they are now, and when you are done with either, the one you finished, replace it with a different one. that way, the more i play, the more i get rewarded, and i actualy have to play to get the pack , and not just play for 30 minutes or even 90 minutes to get the pack. I have not tried the BFP reward system, so that new system could potentialy be better than my idea, so i suppose this suggestion has a mighty large room for improvemenet.

Making the cards to be of more equal power is not something that i can say from experience, cus i'm sure that its different for the player than it is for the developer to balance a card without making it overtuned. My idea is for each card to have a focused strong point, and you compare that strong point to how strong it is compared to the game, and then you balance the stats or even this strong point itself depending on how the card performs and how often its used. Wrecker for example, is way too expensive for what he provides. I for one, wouldnt put him in my deck, even if his cost was 0. My reasoning behind that, is that the card does not have enough raw stats to balance his worthless active. Sure, you can say "its very good in pvp", yeah well, how many people play this game for its PVE, and how many for its PVP. I'm willing to bet, its over 90% for PVE, and less than 10% for PVP. Wrecker does not have enough stats for the ability that he provides, so either stronger stats, cheaper card with more base charges, or a better ability, is what he needs to be considered a card and not a placeholder. I promise you, if he cost 0 power, i wouldnt put him in the deck cus they are just too weak to do anything unless there are 150 of them. I could instead go for a Nomad!!! The green one, not the red one, cus the red one sucks compared to the green one! The only reason for a bad card to exist, is so that the players can figure out themselves as to why the card sucks, and that's pretty much the only thing i can excuse the existence of say wrecker and thugs.

The card upgrade system is the one thing that i'd change right away if i was a developer. In my opinion, Card upgrades should only be dropable from missions, they should have more impact on the card, and there should be more than 3 upgrades per card. The perfect example of this misuse of the upgrade system, is The Incredible Mo. i can think of only 1 reason as to why you would want to upgrade this. To have a bigger number on your deck level. THATS IT. I dont think there is any reason to upgrade this card. Its just not worth it!. How about some cheaper power activations? How about some "you can activate a second effect". How about some "as long as this is alive, your mo has 20% bonus max hp and damage, and is effective against XL units". I cant count how many ideas i have for this exact card, and there are so many more that can use MORE upgrades and BETTER upgrades.

This one is something that i belive that should absolutely be implamented, and i am kind of still wondering why its not in the game:

So, stonekin units have 15% damage reduction, Bandits have 15% lifesteal, twilight can transform into each other, and lost souls can reincarnate for a short while. How about, instead of having the cards themselves have these bonuses, make the combinations of the orbs do that. Here's an example: Having 2 nature orbs and 2 ice orbs, grands all of your units 20% damage reduction. Having 1 frost(or nature) and having 2 nature(or frost) orbs, grands your units 15% damage reduction. Having 1 frost, and 1 nature orb, grands your units 10% damage reduction.

Having 4 nature orbs, grands your units 10% maximum health regeneration every 5 seconds

Having 4 Fire orbs, grands your units 50% damage

Having 4 frost orbs, grands your units a 500 * required-orbs-to-summon-the-unit shield that regenerates every 10 seconds

Having 4 shadow orbs, makes your units recharge 50% faster, and cost 20% less

Having 2 of this and 1 of that 1 of that grands you x things

The numbers are a little whatever, just a placeholder number, just take the basic idea of the bonuses based on your orb selection

TL;DR

I think the proggress system, with the daily pack is way too fast, though i have not played with the new reward system so the new one could be better, the gap between the strongest and the weakest card is way too big, and some upgrades are useless and there could be an improvement for that. Suggestions incloude, slower proggression and bfp gain, so that the players need to actualy play to get the rewards, making sure that each card stands out somehow, and the special thing that they have like say lost spirit shit can hit pretty much everyone in its proximity, is something that well, lost dragon does not have something to be on par with that, and there is not a single situation where you'd pick lost dragon over lost spirit ship, and the upgrades, could be more than just "grand more of x unbelievably basic stat that is not even good enough to justify an upgrade of this low power". And right above this section, is a bonus suggestion, for a new game mechanic. Its basicly "grand bonuses to your units/buildings based on the orbs that you have"

DISCLAIMER!!!!!!!!!! This is my personal opinion of how the game should be. Any negative coments like "oh my god this is stupid, you are wrong, blah blah bla" is going to help neither me, nor the developers to improve the game. What's going to help is make your own suggestions, either in this post or in a new topic about an idea you came up with, and a simple "i dont like this" is not enough. "i dont like this because its way too hard and i dont have enough to do that" is way better and way more explanatory as to why this wont work for exactly you, or people in your possition.

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40 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

I think the proggress system, with the daily pack is way too fast

yes it is, it was supposed to be only a placeholder for less than a month.

41 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

the new reward system so the new one could be better

that highly depends on how much hours you will play, with 6 hours per day you get much more than now, with only 1 hour you get much less.

42 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

the gap between the strongest and the weakest card is way too big

yes, I created whole Discord server to discuss that https://discord.gg/GZKKMqH, but MrXLink have Lead Designer role at the time, and said no to any changes.

45 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

The only reason for a bad card to exist, is so that the players can figure out themselves as to why the card sucks, and that's pretty much the only thing i can excuse the existence of say wrecker and thugs

There are people that would disagree with you, because they thing Thugs are too strong for their price. And based on their evidence I think they should be weaker.

47 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

copy paste my suggestion inside the game's code.

:thinking: are you aware, that we do not have source code of the game? So the whole section about global changes seems bit irrelevant :(

48 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

developers of all people know best that the game needs some improvements

:thinking: only some?

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Change main things is just not possible.

All of us dream about a lot of changes and have great ideas just like you.

The name what could solve this:

War of the Elements or something whatever you want.

Pick everything good from Battleforge, change things what you must to be free from EA.

Collect great ideas just like the one above (orb combination passives are just WOW!)

My idea: Give every card 2 Affinity and make it like only one can you use for PVE and the other one for PVP. Separated Card Pool for PVE and PVP could solve a ton of Balance issue.

Start it on Kickstarter.

I will be one of the supporter i promise and I know im not alone.

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Do you know anyone who would create all the art for the game? (2D images, 3D models, animations, ...)
Otherwise it would be waste of time, and money.

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10 minutes ago, Kubik said:

Do you know anyone who would create all the art for the game? (2D images, 3D models, animations, ...)
Otherwise it would be waste of time, and money.

Nah.Sorry.

Im just a gamer with no experience about programming.

But i smell good games and BF is one of them with no concurrency.

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On 1/12/2020 at 3:46 PM, Kubik said:

 

:thinking: are you aware, that we do not have source code of the game? So the whole section about global changes seems bit irrelevant :(

 

i was clearly not aware of that since i made such a suggestion. in fact, i have absolutely no clue as to how you are working on the project. if you imagine 10-15 people hanging out and discussing about a subject, and then suddenly some moron shows up who has no idea what he's talking about, just thinking that he knows everything, i'm that moron in this case, hence the ,i suppose, moderately missplaced examples. I still stand by my point that thugs and wreckers are weak, at least for RPVE. Maybe Thugs are strong, maybe wrecker is too, but my point was not "this 1 card that i like so much is weak and i want you to fix it". My point was that there are some cards that are entirely too weak, and the only reason for their existance, is for the players to figure out why a card is bad. weather that be its stats, or its ability. Dont like the Thugs example? Lost Grigori , Rogan Kayle, Moon, mumbo jumbo, mutating frenzy, comet catcher,comandos, earthkeeper , lost disruptor. Compare any card, to Infect. I truly have no idea how these cards hold up in PVP, i'm only talking about PVE, and in PVE, they SUCK. 

I also doubt that the global changes section is irrelevant, cus i suppose you'll eventualy get your hands on the source code of the game, maybe not today, maybe not this month, maybe not this year, but eventualy you will.

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Honestly your not the first to notice. But currently the technical feasibility prevents the suggested changes (for more details join and read the balance discord) and once we are ready everything will be brought back up anyway.

Secondly your list is flawed as cards sometimes only excel in certain situations. For instance the mutating frenzy can be seen here in action in PVE (Last 3 seconds of the Video).

 

Edited by LEBOVIN

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@Ragerunner why you think EA will one day change their mind and give us the source code of the game? :thinking:

To me it seem as probable as you winning a million in lottery and your neighbour come over and give you another million to make your day even better.

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Even if wreckers are only viable in pvp but but not in pve that's allready much better than many other cards that are not viable in any mode. To make every card viable in both modes is not necessary and possible. 

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On 1/14/2020 at 8:25 AM, Kubik said:

@Ragerunner why you think EA will one day change their mind and give us the source code of the game? :thinking:

To me it seem as probable as you winning a million in lottery and your neighbour come over and give you another million to make your day even better.

Fair enough. But if you never get the source code of the game, how are you gonna proggress the game? make a new one? or even figure this one out? I suppose that's what you are trying to do by asking for someone that can do the in-game models.

On 1/14/2020 at 5:07 AM, LEBOVIN said:

Honestly your not the first to notice. But currently the technical feasibility prevents the suggested changes (for more details join and read the balance discord) and once we are ready everything will be brought back up anyway.

Secondly your list is flawed as cards sometimes only excel in certain situations. For instance the mutating frenzy can be seen here in action in PVE (Last 3 seconds of the Video).

 

Do i really have to list out every single card that i believe is worse than some other cards? 

I was clearly wrong about the mutating frenzy being a bad card in every single situation. Now i want to see you try again to make comandos useful.

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@Ragerunner What I mean was that a lot more cards than you think are indeed useful in a specific niche situation.

Regarding commandos, they can be combined with Rioter's Retreat to become an insanely durable, permanent defense.

Durable Commandos.png

Here is a satirical video, nevertheless it highlights their temporary power with buffs aswell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnyk3lHW6oE (from 3.28 onwards) :P

Edited by LEBOVIN

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Theoretically extending the game in any direction is possible without a source code, but some changes might be harder than writing whole game, even if from player's point of view they might seem as small. For example change that would take with source code few seconds, because it would be adding 3 lines, taking me over 6 months already, and hope to have it fixed next month (not a promise).

To make a new game and avoid being sued by EA would require (just a base list, not a full on):
code - not a problem for me, UI - 2D graphics, models - 3D graphics, story - writing, maps - design, few other base systems - design, "economy model"
All that would need to be done from scratch, for me the graphics is the the deal breaker, find someone to write a story, and create some maps should not be that hard.
But it can NOT be Battleforge, it would need to be another game.

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