Skydancer

[shaulani]

It's too strong.

 

+1000hp and regeneration turn almost anyone invincible. Plus they are very cheap. It should have 1 shadow 1 nature and 2 shadow or nature orb requirement. Or the effect has to be weakened.

As soon, as you have shadow + nature, it feels like a must pick. It complements with any other t4 unit and simply makes that unit 4 times stronger / viable.

[This Is Halloween_2]

It’s good, but it only works in army based composition rather than spell based ones, which are still superior.

I find it strong, and skydancer has successfully created a number of viable compositions.
But it is not as strong as some of the best T4 units, batariel, forest elder, and the GOAT of T4, bloodhorn.

Skydancer comp still does not see a lot of play in campaign, and in rpve it is not at the top.

Skydancer is clearly an A/A+ tier unit, but not at the very top.

[Fimion]

May i ask which PvE modes you play and at which difficulty level?

I almost exclusively play rPvE Expert+(lvl8) and there Skydancer is not OP its not even a viable choice it may be ok for easier maps but when you get a difficult map Lost Souls with Vigils at T2 for example every second counts and with a Skydancer deck you will most likely not win.

[shaulani]

Not sure what you mean by Vigils at T2. You don't build them before T4 and you are supposed to use them as support unit. 3 are enough to boost your army making it invincible. But you are free to add more ofc.

I'm actually not playing r7+, because it requires too much team coordination. Chances were pretty high that you fail at least 1/3 times with a random group back in the days. Plus, I like to try out different decks. It's ok, if you always start with fire and nuke one camp down after another. For me, that's not that much fun. It's rather boring to apply the same strategy over and over.

 

While I could try the solo r7+, I tend to avoid it, because it's more fun so see others playing. Helping them out eventually, or watching them die if they were over-confident.

 

If a card is a must-pick, it's most likely too strong, or the alternatives are too weak. And no - you don't need it for playing solo entities. Yes - I do know that you can easily clear caps using emberstrikes +that frost spell that grants 99% damage reduction. Compare it to dragons: A few on their own easily die without babysitting and kiting. Add 3 skydancers and they become super tanky.

[Fimion]

I'm talking about Lost Souls maps where you have Lost Vigils at T2 this is pretty much the hardest start and it takes alot of time to get to T4 and then you usually only have 5-8 minutes left and later you will encouter massive bases with  2 Banestones + 2 Archfiends.

You will need a deck with a T4 that does massive damage +1000 HP and slow regeneration is nothing in a situation like this. Another example would be twilight maps with multiple Willzappers and lots of  Evil Eyes.

So i guess you mostly play Advanced++(lvl6) compared to difficult lvl 8 maps that is not even tutorial level Skydancer would need a massive buff to become a viable choice for lvl 8.

Edited February 12 by Fimion

[This Is Halloween_2]

I had the impression that skydancer were A tier level (not S one though), but I’d trust Fimion on this one, he knows rpve exp+ better than me ^^

So the unit might not even be A tier eh ?

And yea, pretty much anything is valid in rpve adv++, and good strategies appear op there.

 

PS : what do you think of rpve exp Fimion ? You’ve seen it help people transition better into exp + ? Or at least moving people out of adv++ spam ?

Edited February 12 by This Is Halloween_2

[Fimion]

1 hour ago, This Is Halloween_2 said:

what do you think of rpve exp Fimion ? You’ve seen it help people transition better into exp + ? Or at least moving people out of adv++ spam ?

Good question, i dont think it really helps people move from lvl 6 to lvl 8 there are alot of lvl 8 maps that arent much harder than the average lvl 7 map but it doesnt prepare people for difficult lvl 8 maps.

For example 90% of players have no idea how to deal with Lost Souls with Vigils at T2 they usually attack way too early or go scouting and pull enemies to their T1 or think that Makeshift Towers are a good defense vs Vigils Treefiends and Spellbreakers.

Makeshift Tower is a particularly bad card that even alot of players with higher ranks use to defend their T1 with but on difficult maps you either have to kill powerful enemies as fast as possible with Eruption or Mine or you spawntrap by placing a Blaster Cannon in front of your monument so it can't kill the enemy or vs Lost Spellbreakers you spawn an S squad and let it get knocked back and press hold. Makeshit Tower won't save you in difficult situations and in all other situations it is ineffective at best.

Another thing that lvl 7 doesnt prepare people for are T3 spawners which can be a big problem when your T2 is close to T3 especially on 2 player maps where you have to clear T3/4 (which are in the same place) alone. Lets say you face Bandit/Stonekin with 2 Windhunters 2 XL units + a spawner at T3/4 even if you can build your T2 the spawn wave will pull the entire camp to your T2 and there is nothing you can do to defend it. In a situation like this your only option is to spawntrap.

But if the T3/4 is so close to your T2 that you cant even build it then it gets difficult first of all you need to destroy the spawner(the right one not the dummy) by running into the base with Nomads and erupting it 4 times which will trigger spawn waves from camps next to it then you need to spawntrap those waves and then you first have to build Blaster Cannons to take out the Windhunters and then either kill the XL units with Mines and Eruptions or if you're lucky you can build your T2 and get Shadow Phoenixes or Skyfire Drakes(which are better than Gladiatrixes especially vs Bandit Walkers)+Oink and Surge of Light if you play nature T2.

I don't think playing lvl 7 prepares people well for lvl 8 you can only get good at it by playing it and taking advice from experienced players.

lvl 6 is by far the most common rPvE lvl and i don't think that adding lvl 7 has had a big impact on that lvl 8 is only popular when the map of the month is an easy bandit map.

Bandits should either get a massive buff or be removed from lvl 8 in my opinion but that's another story.

Edited February 12 by Fimion

[shaulani]

19 hours ago, Fimion said:

Good question, i dont think it really helps people move from lvl 6 to lvl 8 there are alot of lvl 8 maps that arent much harder than the average lvl 7 map but it doesnt prepare people for difficult lvl 8 maps.

For example 90% of players have no idea how to deal with Lost Souls with Vigils at T2 they usually attack way too early or go scouting and pull enemies to their T1 or think that Makeshift Towers are a good defense vs Vigils Treefiends and Spellbreakers.

Makeshift Tower is a particularly bad card that even alot of players with higher ranks use to defend their T1 with but on difficult maps you either have to kill powerful enemies as fast as possible with Eruption or Mine or you spawntrap by placing a Blaster Cannon in front of your monument so it can't kill the enemy or vs Lost Spellbreakers you spawn an S squad and let it get knocked back and press hold. Makeshit Tower won't save you in difficult situations and in all other situations it is ineffective at best.

Another thing that lvl 7 doesnt prepare people for are T3 spawners which can be a big problem when your T2 is close to T3 especially on 2 player maps where you have to clear T3/4 (which are in the same place) alone. Lets say you face Bandit/Stonekin with 2 Windhunters 2 XL units + a spawner at T3/4 even if you can build your T2 the spawn wave will pull the entire camp to your T2 and there is nothing you can do to defend it. In a situation like this your only option is to spawntrap.

But if the T3/4 is so close to your T2 that you cant even build it then it gets difficult first of all you need to destroy the spawner(the right one not the dummy) by running into the base with Nomads and erupting it 4 times which will trigger spawn waves from camps next to it then you need to spawntrap those waves and then you first have to build Blaster Cannons to take out the Windhunters and then either kill the XL units with Mines and Eruptions or if you're lucky you can build your T2 and get Shadow Phoenixes or Skyfire Drakes(which are better than Gladiatrixes especially vs Bandit Walkers)+Oink and Surge of Light if you play nature T2.

I don't think playing lvl 7 prepares people well for lvl 8 you can only get good at it by playing it and taking advice from experienced players.

lvl 6 is by far the most common rPvE lvl and i don't think that adding lvl 7 has had a big impact on that lvl 8 is only popular when the map of the month is an easy bandit map.

Bandits should either get a massive buff or be removed from lvl 8 in my opinion but that's another story.

Don't listen @Fimion as you proably like it the way it is and you are most likely convinced that cheesing is a viable strategy.

 

If I read things like "you have to spawntrap them or you absolutely need to rush in and need erruption", all I can think of is bad level design. The way it's designed excludes casual players. Go in there, use

>3 pure frost players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>3 pure nature players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>3 pure shadow players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>2 lost soul and 2 bandit players

>2 stone kin and 2 bandit

>2 stone kin and 2 lost soul

Can you reliably (>80%) win without massively abusing spawn trapping? If yes, it might be somewhat balanced. If no, it's an indicator for bad level design which excludes casual players. It's ok to leave it in for hardcore fans, but don't expect it getting popular. The reward/time ratio is very bad.

[Fimion]

2 minutes ago, shaulani said:

Don't listen @Fimion as you proably like it the way it is and you are most likely convinced that cheesing is a viable strategy.

 

If I read things like "you have to spawntrap them or you absolutely need to rush in and need erruption", all I can think of is bad level design. The way it's designed excludes casual players. Go in there, use

>3 pure frost players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>3 pure nature players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>3 pure shadow players and 1 pick-the-best-possible

>2 lost soul and 2 bandit players

>2 stone kin and 2 bandit

>2 stone kin and 2 lost soul

Can you reliably (>80%) win without massively abusing spawn trapping? If yes, it might be somewhat balanced. If no, it's an indicator for bad level design which excludes casual players. It's ok to leave it in for hardcore fans, but don't expect it getting popular. The reward/time ratio is very bad.

lvl 8 is not made for casual players it's made for good players who want a challenge if you just want rewards grind lvl 6 or play Map of the Day.

As long as you have a good team you can win over 80% of lvl 8 maps without spawntrapping and even without players supporting eachother in fact i tell people not to support me all the time because i want it to be as challenging as possible for me.

The problem with lvl 6 is that enemies there are so weak that any good card and strategy is kind of OP.

[Fundus]

On 2/10/2025 at 11:41 PM, shaulani said:

It's too strong.

 

+1000hp and regeneration turn almost anyone invincible. Plus they are very cheap. It should have 1 shadow 1 nature and 2 shadow or nature orb requirement. Or the effect has to be weakened.

As soon, as you have shadow + nature, it feels like a must pick. It complements with any other t4 unit and simply makes that unit 4 times stronger / viable.

Compared to cards like Batariel Bloodhorn Promise of Life Unity Bloodtirst Frenetic Assault+Infect and many others which are necessary for BG LvL 8 Skydancer is actually kind of weak. A combo that i really like is FireForce(B)+Unity(G)+Bloodthirst it gives your army 40% damage resistance + slow passive HP regeneration + 40% damage bonus + 200 hp regeneration for 4 seconds for every 400 damage units deal.
With this combo Batariel basically has 7000hp and 7840 attack + your army shares its hp and if thats not enough you cast Green Peace which doesnt even require ground presence to disable powerful enemies.
At LvL 6 this combo would make every match boring and its 100 times more powerful than Skydancer but for some LvL 8 maps you just need a deck like this to win.
If certain cards make "easy mode" too easy for you simply dont use them.

Edited February 14 by Fundus

[Cocofang]

I think Skydancer is a good example of a card that offers very high value for most people and play but loses its appeal once you start min maxing for optimal strats.

[vargata]

???? I dont even understand this topic, i mean the replies.

skydancer is not op on its own its awful op in combo with energy cores.. for their price they give hp bonus and regeneration to a similarly cheap unit that 10 of them can instado 54000 damage. they are literally the new meta for high tier rpve, you just dont yet see them enough, but you will. they are all op in their own role already, and together they are just stupid.

sentinel is TWICE stronger than a comparable grimwine, it can nearly solokill 2 forest elders, its enough to go out and rush early bases with little help as it mirrors damage and instakills all buildings, especially that it also supports wheels and all the healing spells, and unholy power and unholy hero... nothing can stop an amii sentinel lol

and then start spamming energy cores and you can just walk through all the bases not even stopping, just netherwarp them middle of the base, overcharge them, add kenosis, move on.

amii makes other races a joke.

and it seems they are even bugged as their max damage is calculated wrong, though im no sure if its a forge only issue or not (5 overcharged core does 40500 damage)

[Fimion]

On 2/24/2025 at 6:24 AM, vargata said:

???? I dont even understand this topic, i mean the replies.

skydancer is not op on its own its awful op in combo with energy cores.. for their price they give hp bonus and regeneration to a similarly cheap unit that 10 of them can instado 54000 damage. they are literally the new meta for high tier rpve, you just dont yet see them enough, but you will. they are all op in their own role already, and together they are just stupid.

sentinel is TWICE stronger than a comparable grimwine, it can nearly solokill 2 forest elders, its enough to go out and rush early bases with little help as it mirrors damage and instakills all buildings, especially that it also supports wheels and all the healing spells, and unholy power and unholy hero... nothing can stop an amii sentinel lol

and then start spamming energy cores and you can just walk through all the bases not even stopping, just netherwarp them middle of the base, overcharge them, add kenosis, move on.

amii makes other races a joke.

and it seems they are even bugged as their max damage is calculated wrong, though im no sure if its a forge only issue or not (5 overcharged core does 40500 damage)

Claiming that amii decks are the new meta for high tier rPvE(i suppose you mean Expert+) is just insane there is no point in even discussing that its just blatantly wrong. Those decks may work well in easy situations but in difficult situations you will always lose.

You cant even Netherwarp Energy Cores into LS bases with Banestones or Nature bases with Mark of the Keeper.

Amii Sentinel is pretty underwhelming i tried him a while ago he is basically just a weak Batariel. You cant build a Sentinel army because Sentinels would damage eachother and a single Sentinel just doesnt do enough damage and dies too fast he will also get disenchanted by Fiend of Fire and Lost Spellbreakers.

Please upload some replays of you defeating enemies like Abaddon, Fiend of Fire or Twilight Bases with tons of Evil Eyes + Wilzappers or Lost Souls bases with 2 Banestones + 2 Archfiends without the help of a teammate i would be very interested in seeing that.

If you wanna play some Expert+ let me know we will restart until we get difficult enemies and then you can show me how good Amii decks are.

 

Edited February 26 by Fimion

[vargata]

On 2/26/2025 at 9:58 PM, Fimion said:

You cant even Netherwarp Energy Cores into LS bases with Banestones or Nature bases with Mark of the Keeper.

you dont need to, thats what the amii sentinel is for. it can instakill all of those buildings from out of range... then you can either just walk in or warp in and instakill the entire base...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vkq9XWSn7A destroying 3 forest elders and a mok

 

On 2/26/2025 at 9:58 PM, Fimion said:

Please upload some replays of you defeating enemies like Abaddon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxZO0E_oDOY instakilling not 1 but 2 abaddons
but in 4 player rpve you dont need to kill bosses alone...

 

On 2/26/2025 at 9:58 PM, Fimion said:

If you wanna play some Expert+ let me know

Sold my skydancers as it goes for insane money. guess why 😄 😄 😄 😄

[Fimion]

1 hour ago, vargata said:

you dont need to, thats what the amii sentinel is for. it can instakill all of those buildings from out of range... then you can either just walk in or warp in and instakill the entire base...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vkq9XWSn7A destroying 3 forest elders and a mok

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxZO0E_oDOY instakilling not 1 but 2 abaddons
but in 4 player rpve you dont need to kill bosses alone...

 

Sold my skydancers as it goes for insane money. guess why 😄 😄 😄 😄

First of all i cant even watch those videos because they are private but i guess you did some testing in the Forge which proves absolutely nothing.

Actually you have to clear bases alone all the time in rPvE Expert+ especially when you have bad teammates or when youre playing 2 player mode if youd play Expert+ alot you would know that.

Edited February 28 by Fimion

[vargata]

7 hours ago, Fimion said:

First of all i cant even watch those videos because they are private but i guess you did some testing in the Forge which proves absolutely nothing.

Actually you have to clear bases alone all the time in rPvE Expert+ especially when you have bad teammates or when youre playing 2 player mode if youd play Expert+ alot you would know that.

or you are just bad 😄

[Fimion]

30 minutes ago, vargata said:

or you are just bad 😄

Yeah maybe i am but that would be one more reason to upload videos of you playing Expert+ with amii decks to show noobs like me how you do it.