Treim

Basically what you are describing is a softcap system and i think the devs are already planing on implementing that . Playing longer will be rewarded .

glad i could help

The devs are currently busy, so there is not to much progress. For a little bit more information check out this recent video:

Actually you can not exactly say how much damage LSS does in 20s as there are 2 forms of how much damage they do. We can only talk about a range! If you are standing still and when the first rocket gets launched is time 00:00 seconds at 20 seconds you will have dealt exactly 1600 damage. However you can maximize the damage of LSS by moving it around. I can repeatedly deal about 2000 damage that way. And i am a bit rusty with that so maybe about 2100-2200 damage is possible if you do it really well. so the damage range of damage of a LSS on single targets is about 1600-2200. Thats due to both sides of the ship are shooting seperated/ indepndently ( at least when the enemy is clearly oriented to one side - left or right- of the ship). That way you can get some extra rockets in the damage output. For multiple enemies i felt like the damage was a bit inconsistent. I generally got a range of 6400-7000 damage if you have the Ship completely surrounded by enemies. If you place multiple enemies on just one side of the ship the damage is cut in half as only one half of the ship fires rockets. Thats for a ship standing still. If you have the ship surrounded by the enemies completely moving it wont do all to much and the damage somewhat stays the same( cause you 6 rockets is the maximum) By placing enemies clumped up on one side of the ship moving will actually do wonders. From about 3200-3500 damage before you can easily get it up to 5000 that way. --> For multiple enemies you can get damage from 3200-7000 damage depending on ship movement and enemy positiioning. --> I'd like to note that this is how a SINGLE LSS behaves. If you enter camps with a group of them thegroup will most likely act a little different as some of the ships that are in the other positions of the formation might get screwed up with their positioning and do not as much damage as they could.So thats why it is recommended to move your ships as that will also especially maximize your single target damage to focus down single enemy units or buildings. Btw the card description is incorrect. It is only 6 rockets at max. That was nerfed a while back - in the time period of WoG, Soul Splicer+FoF+Embalmer, SC nerfs. I tested single target on Fathom Lord, Bandit Walker( the one out of the Forge) and Harvester, Multiple enemies were done with Harvester and Bandit Walker.

6/10 okayish - little to slow for me

I think he had a smurf - i am pretty sure he contacted me few times over his smurf as we were playing sometimes together. I might be mistaken about this and simply mixed it up with someone else. Still about 80% sure. I have no clue if he ever played PVP on that account either .

it is able to hit air units. Not much to say about that card but that it is very mediocre.

While i think you did an overall good job I'd like to add that you should probably differ rPVE and PVE as the approach on how to play these modes is quite different - much like the difference between PVE and PVP.

It doesn't matter what unit you are using in that splash. you got Void Manipulation and access to Soulshatter, Frenetic Assault AND Infect. I would probably play that with Cultist Masters and those spells only.

1) rPVE = random PVE = Battleground 2) I'd recommend Skeleton Warriors or Dreadcharger - up to personal preference there

Can be an option against Lost Souls 4 player lvl 10 when getting heavy incomes from t4 and post t4 bases - like 5 treefiends, 4 lost vigils + shields and all that S and M units aint fun - if your t3 clear with Shadow Phoenix was decent though, you should be able to defend it without needing MotK - it is more like a card to increase chances of getting t3 safely. You gotta need it up when the 2nd waves of incommings are comming. You can trap the income with that pretty well generally until someone hits at least t3. Very situational but definetly worth if you can play around the card well enough and struggle with defending t3!

I'd highly recommend changing that one up for rPVE as you have a lot of wasted slots . I didnt really played normal PVE other than speedruns and very few maps , so i may not judge about that. Like rPVE and PVE generally are pretty different - t4 is by far the most important part while t1-t3 is basically just playing weird strategies( if you can afford to do so timewise) or getting through with as few slots as possible . General Tier order: T4>T1>T3>T2. If you want to stay with a large T2 and T3 like that without changing much thats fine obviously as shadow spells are super efficient even in later tiers (especially the T3 ones - Soulshatter, Infect, Frenetic Assault). However at least remove Juice Tank and Lost Launcher. Defensive Towers are a no-go unless you need them for some very special strategies( like Rioter's Retreat with Bandit Sorceress and Commandos). Juice Tank will never be useful as the effect never kicks in. Your wells generally never run out of power even when putting Resource Boosters onto them( only exception - put them onto your wells around 2-3 mins into the game and they will run out like 1 min before the game ends where that extra power Juice Tanks offer you doesn't make a difference anyways - especially as you need to build them beforehand anyways. I would advice you to take in Soul Splicer (nature) and Maelstrom or Frenetic Assault. If you want an optimized deck for rPVE i am open for any requests . Sorry for that wall of text Btw your post is kinda messy - maybe you want to change that as you are quoting the exact same post in the post -

If FM is attacking at max range and you command your rifle cultists to stand still, the archers at the back will not get attacked at some point - easy to fix with a movement command from the FM though.

The dominating T1 unit for rPVE speedruns in 1 and 2 Player Maps from 2009 - 2011 until Second Chance, WoG and Soul Splicer FoF were nerfed within few months. Still your way to go if you want a 3 card frost t1. Can heavily struggle against Lost Souls due to Lost Dancers and those Spiders raping them - especially when shielded. In that case Master Archers >> FM, otherwise Master Archers < FM. Highly recommending taking Master Archers against Stonekin in 1 and 2 Player Maps - not 100% necassery in most cases though, just much much easier and faster t2 clear. If you want to rush t3 always take Master Archers for superior focus on buildings - mostly for lower rPVE levels.

I played 2 kinda creative Souls decks for rPVE if thats fineto you. First one is the easier ones of both and kinda easy to pull off - just keep building up some towers when you are running into a deadlock to fill up your LSS'S ability again. You play the nature affinity LSS's for their heal ability and use Lost Dragons as main damage unit. You add few Lost Warlords for tank and XL Counter. For the LSS's ability you can go with Altar of Chaos( the bomb counts as building) if you start t1 with frost as you then have Ice Barriers for the Ability recharge inbetween bases. You can basically use the absorbing ability whenever it is off cooldown. Otherwise i would recommend Armored Tower. Example Deck: Second one is very similar however even way harder pull off and require you to keep your units in a very small area. Basically you are using the same strategy however with a full army of Revenants. This strategy is super slot intensive and you really need to know how to move in and inbetween bases or your army wont survive 2 minutes. It also takes quite some time to get the energy for it - I'd highly recommend to go 2 shadow orbs in t2 for early Resource Boosters. If you are really good with that deck you can probably keep up your army for about 5 minutes. After that you gotta need to rebuild it completely. As the deck is so slot limited I would recommend using any t4 unit for Offering. You should have enough power anyways as the Revenants are voidless and you do have Cultist Masters + FoF. Example Deck: Some general information about these 2. If you face Lost Souls as enemies you are somewhat fcked unless you are making very good use of Frenetic Assault( thats the only reason why that one is in the decks). You gotta be careful with Lost Warlords, they get destroyed super fast by Necrofurys - so be ready to use the LSS's crystal any time you hit a base. Make sure to let your Lost Dragons hit the enemy Lost Dragons to get the debuff onto them. Each of your Lost Dragons should optimally hit a different one than any of your others. That way you disable their debuff by applying your own( again Frenetic Assault is the key card here). Cultist Masters is key to get started in t4 asap. Obviously the t1- t3 is somewhat changeable. Most of the spells and and units in t4 are considered Core though, especially in the second deck. I hope i remembered those decks 100% correctly, what i put up on top should work though. If you have any more questions about those feel free to ask. Btw you can do great stuff with Lost Souls cards even in t2 - you got a very good variety of good units and combos. My favourite combo for clearing t3 is Lost Converter( Frost) and Darkelf Assassins or Lost Dancers. Sadly to make this work really well you need a mate that is using the frost affinity Nether Warp to teleport the ranged units into the area of Lost Converters effect.

Imo it is completely nonsense to let the whole community participate in regards of balancing. There will be people that will just want their own faction being buffed/ not nerfed and heavily and influence the discussion in a way that is definetly not positive. Same goes for those players that want to get some factions/ cards nerfed into the ground. You need an objective group of players that is playing on very high lvl and understanding the theory behind PVP and PVE in order to make efficient changes to the game. I do not mind to have the community discussing cards in a seperate thread however the final decision on how to change a card should be made within that small groups of experts. Their talks should be not available by the community, their result however should be reasoned so everyone understands how they came to their result.

I actually had a pure Fire deck and used that card as a heal in that. Simply have 2 Molochs at the front and 3 Batariels with Unity and thats pretty much all you need. This strategy heavily resolves around Unity and thatfor struggles really hard against Lost Souls maps due to the Lost Dancer debuff. Bloodthirst is just good as some in fight heal. Much like Ravage. For that deck i used Moons Ability to heal my troops mainly. That only works after a fight though due to Moon being such a squishy card and just dying instantly or taking a units slot in Unity which you can not really afford to do. This strategy requires good understanding on when you can leave the base with your Molochs to reach the next base around the time your Batariels do without them dying. This avoids most of the time you would need to wait for your Molochs however you really need to understand how much damage you do with your 3 Batariels and more importantly: How much damage will they take from the remaining units. Obviously you can go with the easier way and do not split up your units, but that will heavily influence your clearspeed. Thatfor i'd only recommend this for veterans. If you face Lost Souls you will definetly need the experience to handle it. As i didnt was that comfortable with those decks, i got whiped with this deck more often than with any other deck( probably got whiped once every 4-5 games with this deck - just approximately). Definetly not viable on most lvl 10 maps imo. It is generally not worth to play due to reason @Mental Omega mentioned. If you want to play Pure Fire anyways due to Moloch/ the Challenge or whatever reason it is at least better than nothing. I think when all cards have been discussed we can start either again if there are a lot more participants as at some really interesting card only 2 or 3 people discussed. I'd like to give new participants also the chance of sharing their opinion about this card. if there are not a lot of new participants in those discussions I'd like to get back to those cards that really offer a lot of talk potential. We already had some of them and i feel like at least for some there isn't everything discussed yet (f.e. Amii-Monument?). That is mostly due to the fact that they only last one day and not everyones online 24/7. We could probably go a little more indepth about those cards especially when there are interesting ideas about buffing/nerfing. It is like evolving the thread a little bit towards more of a balancing thread rather than a 'lets-talk-about-a-card' thread. I think this could become a place where really interesting ideas and opinions to certain cards can be discussed about a longer period of time. Especially once the game is out and maybe some balancing is going on, this could become a place for players who aren't that much into all the cards and their role in the game to get first impressions on cards and building an own opinion about the card. Probably we could add a little data bank with help of some of the more experienced and very good theoritical( i don think this word fits 100% but couldnt think of anything else) to get an objective view on strength and weaknesses of cards for PVE and PVP( as much as possible at least). I know thats a lot of ideas and probably non of them fits 100% or those should even have an own thread( probably especially the data bank?). Maybe we can discuss further on how this is turning out within the next days

It is okayish in few situations for rPVE. If you get attacked from a whole base at t1 when attacking your t2 it can be somewhat worth. That situation happened only once to me and that was when Amii wasnt even released. Other than that never actually used that card

I feel like you guys are getting way to deep into this at least for rPVE it is pretty much irrelevant. Both affinities are rather good. For speedruns it is rather irrelevant as for a serious speedrun you would never run fire nature in t3 anyways. While the red affinity is better for a faster clear, the purple option provides more safety overall. Generally I'd advise this for lvl 9's: If you do not struggle on any lvl 9 against anything (those rare scenarios like having a close base at t4 are excluded - get your safety by having more power to defend properly), take fire - you should be good enough to handle the slightly higher risk. If you struggle against certain matchups (most likely LS), take shadow affinity - the extra safety will help you. For lvl 10's: Unless you are an expert player and not just casually playing lvl 10's, always take shadow affinity. General rule here: If you are not able to win against LS without much of an issue, never take red. Safety is in random lvl 10's way better than you'd expect it. Especially as you can face Bosses at your t4, so it can get messy rather quickly if you do not know how to handle those properly. Map of the month is a different story here as you can build your deck around the map and can perfectly adjust it for the situations you will get into.

This card was pretty decent tbh. It doesn't need a buff or anything. The Spit damage was pretty good and i would use this card any time i run Twilight. Other Cards can work as well( Giant Slayer, Fathom Lord, Deepcoil Worm), but i do not feel they do the job as well as Twilight Creeper. Generally you want a small t3 with a single unit and some spells that can also be used in later stages of the game. That means you want a t3 unit that is good in everything. Twilight Creeper offers that in the best way. You got decent damage, decent enough HP, Anti Air. Fire Nature has okayish damage spells in t3 with Inferno and Thunderstorm, but its not the greatest thing ever, especially as they are so expensive. 3-4 Twilight Creepers can clear any t3 with a bit of support. It was even in lvl 10's pretty good. I'd probably always play this card over any other t3 card in fire nature t3 unless i play some weird shit like Giant Slayers in t4 or something similar.

I honestly think the card is kinda useless in a fire deck. you already got that much damage that you generally do not need this card. I am not that sure what to make out of this unit. I dont think that buffing units in attack is a very fire-ish thing to do. I would much rather see some kind of burn damage on its auto attack. Does that make the card viable? probably not.

I never actually liked that card, i feel like Stonekin has better options with Stone Warrior and Coldsnap/Frostshard/Rageflame/Timeless One. The stats itself aren't good for 250 power and the ability is worse than Stone Warrior in most situations. Especially as it can not get comboed as well with freeze spells/abilities. The healing of the critters is nice but honestly you are playing a nature splash so healing is not a problem at all. So thats more like a bonus. You even have a shit ton of cc to make it even easier keeping your units alive. The only thing Nature/ Frost is truely lacking is damage and Deep Fang is not exactly the best choice for that. The AOE is nice but i would prefer pure Burst damage like Frostshard + Stone Warrior any time over that. As their critters is somewhat a cool idea i would change the card around those. Maybe make it that the critters can used in different ways. Probably 3 options: Offer the Critter to spawn an area of healing where all friendly units gets healed for an instant amount x Offer the Critter to freeze x enemies in an area. Offer the Critter to create an poisoned area where enemies take x damage over time/ or just a flat amount I would remove the Gifted/Infused Union for that. Probably make them deal more damage units that are effected by option 2 and 3. That would force you to play around the Critters to maximize your damage and i would really enjoy a card like that. I think Power costs should be somewhat fine if you do it like that

The ability simply kills a single unit. There is no AOE involved whatsoever. Basically the Void Maw and the enemy unit simply die. Problem is that this is a t4 card. In t4 you got so many good units that you wont have problems with any kind of Attack generally. At least when it is a single unit attacking. Also the cards ability does not work on Bosses( that would be totally broken anyways), so there is not really any room for this card. It is much like any non XL t4 unit( except Rifle Cultists maybe). It is simply not worth it. The only viable thing really is its ability and that is way to situational as most of the time you got equal or better options for the situations the ability can be used effectively, but those other cards have greater potential in other scenarios and situations. I am not exactly sure how to fix it. I could maybe see this card maybe having value as a t3 card(with requirement for 2 shadow orbs)? Shadow splashes with 2 shadow orbs at t3 doesn't exactly have the greatest cards against XL creatures where the ability and XL counter might come in handy. Not like they would struggle really hard either due to very good spells and the void manipulation but i honestly do not know what else to do with the card? I mean the ability is somewhat interesting but i dont know what to do with it.

Yeah totally forgot about that guy... TL;DR increasing power costs will have some influence in some rPVE scenarios, for the hard ones in 1 and 4 Player scenarios it will not matter at all though. PVE speedruns will be untouched by this change, times will get slowed down by about 30 seconds but thats about it. So i will go a little bit more detailed into rPVE speedruns here, as i am not as proficient with regular PVE and its much more comparable than some of the maps. Also this will only be about lvl 10 as there are quite some differences on how lvl 9 is played. I will compare the use of Amii Monument when being in its current state and with a power requirement of 400 energy. The activation energy is pretty irrelevant here. First of all in that examples, Amii Monument is irrelevant for 2 player lvl 10. Thats because t3 and t4 is within the same base. Except for Power Advantage you do not need to use it. Except some cheesy strategies which i will exclude here. So Amii Monument is not an overpowered card at those maps even today. 1 Player Maps are either Bandits or Stonekin Enemies. Difference is Stonekins T3 and T4 is massively harder( Bandits= 3 Shadow Phoenixes, Stonekin= 10 Shadow Phoenixes necassery). Bandits are the way easier faction thatfor increasing the power requirement for Amii Monument will have impact on them. If you play it prefectly( and thats not to hard generally) you can whipe out the t3 both camps next to your t2, the base next to t4 and the t4 with only 3 Shadow Phoenixes. For sake i will just add in 1 additional Shadow Phoenix for safety reasons. So for that t4 you will effectively use few embalmer cooldowns maybe like 3 or 4 whcih is 20 energy and 1 additional shadow pheonix which is 10 energy, For clearing annd building the orb you need 330 energy. Also that should went relatively fast, so you will probably clear t4 close before you hit 300 power for t4 as you can do it while building up t3 and the void manipulation etc. The problem about that change starts when you face stonekin maps. You need 10 Shadow Phoenixes to clear t3 and that only works if you play it perfectly and get a little lucky about focus. So i recommend always using 11. Most Stonekin t2 camps have Anti Air already. That means you will not get throught those bases safely. Also you will most likely loose 1-3 Shadow Phoenix at any bigger camp which you will have to face 3 at least. That is some massive power you would need to put into that. Simply not an option. Generally you run Batariel in those maps so you can avoid that somewhat by playing shadow nature nature and enlighting Batariel at t3. Problem about that is: your Shrine of War will be up insanely late and that card is 100% necassery for the strategy. Might work out without Amii Monument but it will be siginificantly slower. Especially as you also got an orb switch in that strategy involved. another 86 power disadvantage compared to Amii Monument. On those maps it will definetly be worth to have Amii Monument in your deck. It offers you such a great advantage as you are allowed to run so much more adaptive orb orders. T4 maps have basically similar problems, Bandits and Twilight are easy and t4 can be cleared with the same Shadow Phoenixes pretty easily, for Stonekin it is possible but rather hard and you need to absolutely nail it, Lost Souls straight up impossible in 95% of the maps repeatatively. Easy solotuin for that: One Player at each side takes both t3 orbs. Problem with that comes after that. You need a whole bunch of support buildings for Lost Souls and the players with the power generally do not have the slots for those buildings. As the outer positions are almost only supportive anyways and do not even clear their t2 themselves they have next to no power for t4 units. They generally do the job of building SoW, Incredible Mo, Flame Crystal, Healing Gardens and the likes and adding some spells to the table while the other 2 guys are clearing the map with units. At least 2 of those are 100% necassery, the other one i highly recommend, that is 2 slots you dont have( counting out Amii Monument already). The decks are already super close calculated. Also that power will lack later on. Adding in a decomposer is not an option due to slot problems so what are you supposed to do. You will still take Amii Monument, so you got someone building up the necassery building and dont care about 100 power. Stonekin Bandits and Twilight arent that bad as you can find solutions to that. For Stonekin you would need to sacrifice one player a bit by delaying his Batariel Enlightment a bit as he has to build SoW before going t4. So Amii Monument power increase might not be the worst thing to do. Basically some scenarios will be solved by increasing the power but not all. Especially Lost Souls is coming way more often in 4 Player Motm than other factions( I'd say about 45% of the time). A small note on PVE. A lot of strategies for speedruns in PVE are based around having access to Amii Monument and are multiple minutes faster than any strategy without. Increasing the power costs will not matter at all in most cases( i am not aware of all the strategies anymore and never knew all strategies for all the maps anyways). Unless timing is like inredibly close it wont matter. You wait 30 seconds longer to get t4 and still remain a massive advantage over other strategies. It will slow down times a bit but thats about it. There will be next to no impact for PVE by increasing the power costs. Sorry for the massive text wall. I realized i couldve explained it much short for the rPVE section, but kinda had to sort my thoughts on it which the text helped me with Respect if you made it through the whole post without having a nap

This card is the most overpowered/gamebreaking card in the whole game imho. Besides using a slot there is literally no downside to this card. It offers you so much without taking ANY risks. By skipping the t3 completely you completely negating the risks of attacking and getting whiped and those bases. On top of that you even get rewarded avoiding the risk by spending less power to actually build it instead of a regular t4. On top of that again you are even faster using this card. Again except it using a deck slot it doesnt have any downsides to use this card. This card is the reason why shit ton of actual speedrun strategies in PVE and rPVE even work they do. Just to mention some: PtD, Convoy, Soultree, any rPVE lvl 10 some lvl 9, Dwarven Riddle. This card alone changed the playstyle and deck compositions for any speedrun. If you want to play speedrun successfully you HAD to use it. While other cards are super good on some maps, amii-monument was a must on pretty much all of them, except some very few exceptions that had a time cap like Titans or Siege of Hope. I am almost sick of even talking about this card as it is such an unhealthy card for a game to have. Changing the way a huge part of 'competetive play' is played and enabling getting around key parts of a game by simply using a simple card is just not how it should be. I remember a thread was made about this card(can not find it though) and we searched for a solution without getting to something that could really work except making it a supert niche card for fun t5 strategies by making it a t4 card ( i know i suggested that one at least). There were some ideas which as far as i remember were: Increase power cost Increase build time Less HP No orb switch/ increased cooldown limit the orb time( so f.e. get t4 for 1 minute with3 min cooldown) Increase Orb Requirements So those ideas obviously have their problems which are: Increase power cost --> Most expensive current card is 350 power i think so maybe something of 400 would be ok without breaking out of the rule way to hard, Thats not nearly enough though. Counting energy that is lost by using spells and spawning units for clearing t4, which is required on most maps, regularly you will pretty much get at least to 340-350 power. So basically you are paying 50 power for not taking any risks and being faster overall. So that wouldnt change anything Increase build time --> Clearing t4 should take at least 2-3 minutes generally, increasing the build time to that time wouldnt be comparable to any other building in the game, so i wouldnt consider that as an option as anything under that time wont change anything Less HP --> probably the most useless idea as you can build it whereever you want anyways so even if you make it 1 HP you can simply put it in a safe place where it is never been attacked No orb switch/ increased cooldown --> Most people didnt even used this feature and honestly it is not the feature that makes this card op anyways. You can remove it and most people wouldn't even notice. It would decrease the opness on certain maps and decks but won't change the overall op'ness nearly enough limit the orb time( so f.e. get t4 for 1 minute with 3 min cooldown) --> Basically an alternative to Enlightment that allows you to use more higher tier cards than Enlightment but bind a lot of power for a temporarely t4. This would at least make it way harder to use. Obviously it would be somewhat hard to say how long t4 should be available by what Cooldown. If you make it to weak it is pretty much useless for anyone, make it to strong and it is still op. I am pretty sure this would take an immense amount of balancing to find a good way. Increase Orb Requirements --> My personal favorite ( maybe coz i suggested it ). It would make Amii Monument a very niche card for players that are toying around with those fun t5 strategies. Obviously most people wont use it and only very few advanced/ expert players would use it to try out some fun decks. This would definetly ban it out of speedruns and would at least make it usefull for some players. Also this way you wouldn't need a whole lot of balancing like with the option above. I am pretty sure i left out on 1-2 ideas of the old thread, but maybe @Ladadoos can find it? This card has such an unhealthy effect for the game that i am pretty sure that it is even straight up impossible or close to impossible to put it in a spot where it is a viable card without being overpowered by purely changing its stats. This card needs a complete rework ( maybe the 5th idea is closest to that) to make it balanced