SunWu
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Posts posted by SunWu
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I think we mean the same player - ,,mutantenfisch''. I remember him playing nature T1, perhaps he played another deck before or later. Wasn't his only twilight unit deathglider? Still a no for me when it comes to successful twilight deck players. Onseet showcased a real twilight deck once. Eventhough it's kind of a strange match, the move at 2:20 is probably the best use of a twilight transformation i've ever seen in a pvp match:
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Remember him, but ,,succesfull''? I have him in mind as a player that played relatively good nature T1 without treespirits but gave away some ELO by playing the strange T2. I think that's just a mild case of ,,beijingguyism'' where a player choses a deck wich isn't mainstream and in the end trades ELO for fun/recognition. I've seen Hirooo make werebeasts and sunken temple work but unless he does it vs other primes regulary i wouldn't say there's a succesfull sunken temple player.
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8 hours ago, Loriens said:
Was there at least one player who achieved good result with this deck?
No :( The transformation effects are weak for the cost at which they come, so situations where they are effective are very rare. In a twilight deck you'd also have to rely on units that are way weaker than their non-twilight counterparts. (mauler > slaver, ghostspears > twilight minions, skyfire drake & burrower > any twilight T2 units). So you cold only achieve good results if you regulary get matched with oponents that are weaker than you.
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Why not both? :)
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1 hour ago, Anonymos said:
the card heals units once per second for a set duration but when the warp is used on the sport the buff refreshes twice every second basicly doubling the heal value but i cannot see any "bug" abuse there its jsut the way the card works
i guess all this wired interactions (eg jugger double stampede) are not considered bugs by this point
If it's only twice the dmg then its working as intended. i thought it was dmg x 4 or even worse, i don't use it myself i just wanted to know if i can scream ,,foulplay'' when i see it used against some poor pure nature dude :D
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1 hour ago, Toggy said:
Rules!
-No bugabuse
This one always makes me wonder: If someone gets caught using green netherwarp on the spot to heal his mages, should he be disqualified? On one hand it's clearly a bug on the other hand 9/10 pure shadow players abuse the heck out of it...
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53 minutes ago, ImaginaryNumb3r said:
such unintuitive mechanics should not be in the game.
That's exactly what i ment with paranoia of being behind while being even. The thugs buff gave a totaly new feeling to the most common T1 matchup and i don't like this feeling. Not only because i as a shadow player can throw most power calculations i usually make out of the window after one thug caught up to a forsaken. It's also the fact that fire now has the ability to play more defensively wich often leads to stalled out boredom instead of welltrading. Don't get me wrong, a thugs buff was overdue because in mid T1 before sunderers come into play motivated frenzied forsaken where a little too strong in offensive situations. But creating power out of fighting units will remain strange to me and makes me even consider playing something other than shadow. There's the argument that absolute perfect micro makes thugs almost useless, but i don't believe that. Especially when your oponent is also really good at microing and the map restricts your moving paths even more you sometimes have no chance but to run into thugs.
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There's the lost souls dragon who has an aura wich prevents spells/ranged attacks and also a lost souls building wich does the same. Twilight has the twilight dragon wich prevents spells and ranged attacks in the area its attack hits. If you want to deal with those easily melee units help a lot against those oponents.
Fastest T1 in 4player lvl 9 rPVE is in my experience fire (nomad + mine), frost with all the S counters and homesoil can also be quick. Shadow doesn't do too bad either (motivated forsaken; why is everybody using nox? They take forever to kill of squads...) while nature is the slowest. In terms of speed shadow has the advantage of being able to play ressource booster in T2 wich speeds up everything after that alot.
In general the fastest decks are lost spirit ship spam, the buffed batariel deck or any deck that combines void manipulation (shrine of war or cultist masters + furnace of flesh or even shrine of memory) with spells that deal with enemy bases quickly: earthshaker, chain explosion (preferably red aff.), fire sphere, inferno, frenetic assault, thunderstorm etc. Bloodhorn is a good unit wich is splashable in a lot of decks and rips through enemy bases the fastest with its ability, melee XL counters like bloodhorn are also good if you don't want to fail against some bosses. There are bosses like the annoying twilight Jugger wich only take damage from melee attacks so a lost spirit ship deck has nearly no chance and needs the help of the teammates.
Edit: There's also a little twilight raptor with spellsuppression
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Undead Army
in Cards
10 hours ago, DarcReaver said:Well even if it's intended to be used anywhere on the map, I doubt that the "corpse recycling" is intended (re-use the corpses of the 'dead' skeletons over and over again). Like stated before the effect itself is fine, but the way it is is just annoying, lame, unfun. I can't imagine the card is meant to be used on the same area with the same corpses dying and raising again and again.
I would be on the same train with you if it was really, really strong. But in pvp there are so many better options of going offensive and in pve it's at best convenient. Maybe the mechanic is stupid, i don't think so, it's rather subjective.
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11 hours ago, DarcReaver said:
Since there has been talk on Strikers:
Why is the Looter ability considered overpowered? According to Discord the Formula is something like 0.20 x (power cost of unit) x (% or damage dealt). So if you kill a full health unit you get like 0.2 x 50 x 1.00 = 10 power. Considering you need like 20 seconds this is a power bonus of ~ 0,5 power/second, or 25% of a power well, or even less.
With Strikers you can deal up to 50% of most M units, leading to 0.2 x 80 (for a swiftclaw) x 0.5 = 8 Power. For other units, like a Frost mage, it's 0.2 x 60 x 0.5 = 6 power (if you manage to not get knocked back at least).
Overall I don't really consider these power bonuses so significant that they're broken or "op". You need 11 charge attacks to get back your investment cost of 90 power. If you take into consideration the void power after their death (90% back) you still need at least 2 charge attacks to gain power. For thugs it's similar, you either need to destroy 6x50 power units with a Thug to gain back its original cost or kill at least 1 unit to gain a power advantage. Since Thugs are S units and not swift this isn't that easy. And then you're still down ~ 50/80 power since Void restores slower.
I do find Strikers useful and they're way more fun to use than Sunstriders. They fit the Aggression theme of Fire very well and their general performance is okay. Only thing that really bothers me is their high cost and the fact that they can be knocked back. This is especially annoying on units like Dreadchargers or Nomads. And that they can be killed by an Eruption upon spawn.
While you think undead army has a broken OP mechanic i think getting power from anything other than wells or void (or energy parasites) is broken and stupid. A powerplus of 10 is already quite an advantage in early T1 and can be decisive in a match with players of the same skilllevel. Now luckily nobody plays striker because it's a very expensive small melee unit, otherwise it could get OP really quick like Radical said. When i play shadow vs fire thugs already add enough paranoia off losing eventhough i'm even...
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Yeah the fire frost deck is definetly alright, but i think you really need scythe fiends for your fire /nature.
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Undead Army
in Cards
38 minutes ago, Chibiterasu said:Difficult to say if it's a bug but I don't think so because it's intention is to play that card after a fight.
They labeled it as ,,arcane'' so i guess it was supposed to be that way. Wasn't there only one card that broke the arcane/spell rule (arcanes being usable without ground presence)? I don't remember wich it was.
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Undead Army
in Cards
I would go more in detail about why all our calculations so far aren't on point, for example: a undead army player would usualy motivate one of them, buffing the other three.
But there's simply the fact that i've seen hundreds of pure shadow games of really, really good players. None of them used it and i think even them couldn't make regular use of it against a frost or nature splash.
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Undead Army
in Cards
I'm not stopping you from using it. You will face 75-80% of oponents who have either coldsnap + building repairs or oink and hurricane, though. Against those players you won't destroy anything by using undead army if you aren't playing tremendously better than them. Each time you use undead army and they counter it with one cc, they get a 30-50 power advantage...yeah you make some damage, but good players still keep an advantage by well timed repairs. The disadvantages stack up and you lose because of this card... And against pure fire and bandits you rather use harvy wich is much more reliable (and also useful against other decks unlike undead army).
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Undead Army
in Cards
1 minute ago, DarcReaver said:Doesn't excuse a design issue of the card itself.
I don't know, it fits the shadow theme really well, i think. You got skeletons coming out of the earth surprisingly like in a zombie apocalypse...doesn't get more shadow than that. There's a little risk factor because the skeletons will definetly die, so you have to make use of them in a certain amount of time. I see it as a pve card, anyway, where it's useful and fun to use in my opinion. For example if your offense just failed you spawn the undead army as a shield before the enemy base overruns your own base. Or you keep ,,corpse presence'' to soak up for an arriving shadow phoenix...nothing OP in any way.
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Undead Army
in Cards
6 minutes ago, DarcReaver said:Overall the spell is abuse and has no counterplay.
Hurricane, oink, coldsnap, knight of chaos...it's only annoying for pure fire, maybe bandits - but not really because nobody above midranks really plays it, definetly a wasted deckslot unless you know you encounter a deck without crowd control.
Dhrkaas likes this -
If you wanna have at least 3 T3 cards still, maybe bandits. Fire/Nature and Fire/Frost really don't do well without all of the ,,must have'' cards while bandits is relatively versatile when it comes to deckbuilding. In fact it's the best deck (besides pure fire) if you wanna play a big and long T1, bandits T2 isn't the strongest anyways, so you're forced to win some matchups in T1 and the huge T2/T3 powerflow after a long T1 also benefits bandits.
example:
T2: rallying banner, nightcrawler, darkelfs, scythe fiends, skyfire drake, lavafield, ravage, lifeweaving, disenchant, aura of corruption
T3: soulhunter, giantslyer, ashbone pyro
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There are different versions, but you definetly need 2 nature orbs for the enlightenment and one shadow orb for the shadow buffs (life weaving and unholy hero, unholy power is optional).
For the remaining orb most players choose fire for disenchant; earthshaker is also good to have. I personally like frenetic assault and infect much more (2xnature/2xshadow). But i play mostly solo rPVE so i don't encounter those annoying twilight buildings wich paralyze your batariel forever. So if you wanna play multiplayer rPVE go for a fire orb. When it comes to heals surge of light and regrowth is usually enough, if you feel like needing more you can pack in equilibrium (blue affinity). Other viable cards are for example revenge and thunderstorm.
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rPVE 9 solo decks:
pvp:
saving for cultist masters at the moment
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Not Radical, but i think he'd say the same: don't drop the mortar, you need it to drag the T1, it makes defending against T2 much easier. T3 i can personally only think of Virtuoso. Then you'd have your jugger basenuke, giant slayer against XLs and an L counter wich is also good at counter attacks.
Edit: I never made use of global warming, there were only 2 or 3 really good frost players in 2012/2013, so that alone was why it wasn't really worth it. Maybe that's about to change...
Rubinovitsch likes this -
10 hours ago, Casperate said:
most difficult one vs radicalx but forsaken+dreadcharger op sometimes paired with nasty surpise
T1 is really quite balanced, it's Radical who's OP. But i saw that Hirooo is in the beta now, so everything is balanced again, Thanos would be proud.
IzzyPoP likes this -
Fire T1 is Battleforge's Bruce Willis
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2 hours ago, zajonek1 said:
Those responses like "So?" are triggering huge deal of people and show that you might be not empathic
On the other hand who wouldn't get annoyed/cynical from time to time putting so much time and work into something to give it to the people for free and then you got so many people complaining and being clever with what you could have done better...you would have to be completly non empathic or some kind of buddhist monk who doesn't know anger. I wouldn't handle it so well i think and i'm glad there are people who keep showing patience and support and are constructive if they are critical.
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32 minutes ago, Archeon said:
As for the second point, that is a much more real issue (or as real an issue as the colour of a dot below your forum avatar can be - #1stworldproblems) as demonstrated nicely by the posts of @LeSighduck and @Cocofang above. Both perfectly well made posts expressing valid opinions in a non-inflammatory way, but both downvoted because they aren't positive. To me a discussion forum should be for exactly that, discussion. And discussions are really, really dull when everybody agrees with one another.
You can disagree without getting vulgar and disrespectful. He called devs statements ,,bullshit excuses'' and tells them what to do. How is that not inflammatory? If somebody gets a red rep from me it's not because of him disagreeing with me or somebody else, it's because he lacks manners or respect.
Coffee812, Nerubian77, Ultrakool and 2 others like this
Battleforge PvP deck overview - by Hirooo & RadicalX
in PvP
Posted
Sofynn played twilight brutes, he did well with them - i wonder how he had the slot - probably no mauler. They are good against nature splashes, can still get rooted, but at least not hurricaned.