Treim

TL;DR This strategy is a lot of fun already with Worldbreaker Guns, Might be hard to impossible to pull off alone, but should be possible with 2 people if roles and tasks are split up properly while having good coordination between decent players. Definetly nothing anyone can pull off successfully. Should be most fun when 4 players using a strategy build around Kobold Inc. That one was quite decent with Worldbreaker Guns + Skyelf Sage. Was pretty fun to play even though the strategy heavily struggles with some very high Hp bosses( especially that Juggernaut Twilight Thingy was impossible to kill due to its damage reduction to ranged attacks, and you generally didnt have an XL Counter in that deck. Probably Jorne works out quite good in that deck). I tried to search some other strategies that you could come up with when playing alone but did not really found a whole lot as you would either go at least 2 frost orbs( you can probably swap one of the frost orbs to another faction with amii-monument) and still be somewhat efficient. Or you play it with 2 Nature orbs and go with Enlightment. Either way it is rather suboptimal as you will lack damage anyways as pretty much any decent t4 tower has very strict orb requirements. If you pull it off however i would see the biggest chance doing it with a Stonekin deck. You get access to Earthern Gift which synergizes really well with that strategy and other structure defensive spells, you get Architects Call which further reduces the damage of enemy units against buildings. You got some good cc and Matter Mastery which should help quite a bit. And most importantly you get some massive towers with Deepgorge, Worldbreaker Gun and Stronghold. What might help as well is Frontier Keep which goes around the damage reduction for frozen units. There are still majjor problems with that strategy though: You will run out of charges rather quickly You might get a massive slot problem as your t4 is so massive You will probably run into massive power problems esepcially early t4 phases This strategy is super power hungry. You will absolutely need to have someone building SoW. You will definetly not have the power to build SoW by yourself Tower placing can be rather difficult due to collision radius on units I am pretty sure most of this can be solved rather easily by playing with a friend. One could build go with 2 Frost and 2 Nature orbs and build Kobold Inc with help of orbswitching + Frontier Keep and SoW with Enlightment. Thats a massive amount of power he has to spent, so he will most likely not run of charges that fast if he is using the towers i mentioned above as he also has to use the spells of Earthen Gift and the likes which are Stonekin only. That other guy is running straight on damage but with Offering and Cultist Masters until the SoW is ready to go. He would probably also use Resource Boosters to maximize his power. You also get access to Infect, Soulshatter and Frenetic Assault which are always pretty good to have. As towers you might wanna use Church of Negation and Necroblaster. Church should really well synergize wtih Earthen Gift of your friend. Other than that it is rather optional. He can rather run 2 fire or 2 frost orbs next to it. Frost offers Stronghold, Worldbreaker Gun and Architects Call and Frostshard. Probably Ice Tornado and Maelstrom. Fire on the other hand offers you raw damage spells and way fewer towers which this deck is about right? You only would get Artillery which is pretty aight, but i feel like Cluster Explosion, Earthshaker and Inferno might take most of the base out before your towers could even do anything. So that way i would probably prefer a deck with Shadow Frost as it is closer to the original idea due to it being focussed around protecting towers and enabling them to do damage and not just destroying everything and leave towers to do the rest of the work. Obviously this is highly theoratically as i can only remember one guy who used a similar strategy in 2 player rPVE( i can not remind how the deck was build exactly or what his mate played). This is definetly a somewhat slow deck as you need to gather quite some power before you can start attacking and there might be some more issues. Also i am pretty sure i didn't mentioned all cards that might be usefull for this strategy. Green Peace for example ( if it does not work on towers, not 100% sure) might be a nice card to have. I think this one will be the most fun if all 4 players using a strategy build around Kobold Inc.. That way you can split up the Support Buildings much better between those 4 guys. However coordination might get a little tricky as you have to keep in mind quite a few things, so Voice Chat might be nice to have. I'd appreciate when you would tell me if there are mistakes or things i overlooked. For any questions feel free to ask. Again this is mostly therotically and not approved in any kind of gameplay i know, so i might me mistaken in quite some things.

You can do some really fun strategies with that card Using Deepcoil Worm and Burrowing Ritual was always a nice thing to teleport Constructs all over the map. It also has some speedrun history . Back when second chance was broken, you'd get abozt 16 ashbone pyros and few of those little worms and just run everything down with 16-20 attack WoG stacked . It is still viable in a similar deck, where you play around Ashbone Pyros only. I liked it as an additional card once i was out of charges for Ashbone Pyros ( very fun deck, but you need to have someone building SoW. Even better when you have a friend that play the same strategy and you just run down any base. Motivate becomes insanely good. This deck struggles heavily against Lost Souls though ) I think that you have better options in t3 generally than this card though. It is ok to use but if you have other viable units than I always preferrd those over Deepcoil Worm.

There are plenty of little things on pretty much any map, PVP and PVE. Either you ask some high lvl PVP player when the game comes up again to tell you all of those, cuz that is just way easier when you are ingame. You might be able to work out some things in advance by watching high lvl PVP-Replays and constantly asking what and why they do certain things. I would have liked to give you a more detailed answer, however as i never was in PVP that much, i would probably leav out the majority of things and explain it wrong. Hoping someone else can help you better

I won't really participate in those PVP discussions as i have way to less inside into that. For rPVE there actually is a valid t2 strategy that is based around Rioter's Retreat, Commandos and Bandit Sorcerers. It is a pretty safe strategy as you are getting tons of damage reduction, making the life steal even more effective. It is quite power consuming and you might struggle with reaching the Spawn Building sometimes( if the placement is kinda unlucky), but you can pretty much tank up anything. It is especially good with Mines as support, as it is not the highest amount of damage you will be able to put out. For the Spawn building Issue you can add in Eruptions, which i would recommend in almost any Fire T1 rPVE deck anyways.

good for the PVP part, pretty much a worthless slot in rPVE though. Fire simply doesn't need him as mines Nomads/Sunderers and maybe Eruptions are way to powerful even at t3. They really only struggle against Crystal Fiends and Lost Vigils, where Enforcer won't really help. Otherwise great card without doubt

Wintertide is somewhat viable for rPVE lvl 10's (2 and 4 Player) for the case you are facing Lost Souls. Not for speedruns obviously as you never want to start frost against Souls anyways, but if you are building a 'general' deck for rPVE lvl 10's you can use it as some kind of safety. Frost has almost no issues with anything else they face (except few stonekin maps), but Lost Souls is much harder for them than for any other faction, at least with its standard 4 card t1 ( FM, Master Archers, Ice Barrier, Home Soil). Thats due to cuz their best defensive tool, Frost Mage knockback, does not matter against Lost Souls as the t2 consists of M and L units mostly. While Nature has Heals and Root, Fire has raw damage and Shadow has insane tanking ability, Frost got next to no defensive Tools left( except Ice Barrier Spam) which isn't exactly what i call 'a well enough defense'. That way you are forced to literally spam units and pretty have to wait ages. Wintertide CAN help, however you need to get to in range to attack the spawn building which can be tricky before you use wintertide. If the spawn building is very far back you might also want to leave 3-4 master archers behind ya lines at first to sneak them right through the enemy lines when they are not focussed or you have to focus down some units first. So that might need some creativity and good situational adapting from the players side. Alternatively Glyph of Frost is a good card to add as 5th card to the deck. It is a bit less rewarding however in most cases way more consistant. You need way less skill (just palce it somewhat near to a good spot and you will probably hit every ground unit besides air and the income. That way killing the spawn is way easier, but you will take more damage after units are out of the freeze-effect. Wintertide takes more skill to get the maximum effect out of the card, but if you do hell its way better than Glyph of Frost in any scenario. So if you feel comfortable enough but really struggle with Lost Souls at lvl 10 you might wanna choose Wintertide over Glyph of Frost, otherwise just take Glyph of Frost and get that safety with the easy route.

Guess it was stated enough that this card get outclassed by other cards pretty heavily. I thought about making this one a peeling card that applies a movement speed debuff on enemy units when attacking. Even though its kinda good to stick on enemy units and makes it pretty hard to kite them. I am not exactly sure if that would make it worth to play though as i never was really into frost t1 besides classic FM & Master Archers.

That was pretty much on point. I'd suggest to pick a card that has some more talk potential for tomorrow. I don't really care what just something that is a valuable card or at least was.

On the other hand: What struggles with rPVE lvl 9? You can do it with t3 only or Tempest's and Rifle Cultists only and not having any issues.... so i guess we should get away of taking lvl 9 as a standard, cuz you can do that with pretty much any deck that has some t4

Never had that card sadly. I generally saw that one paired with Fire Dragons though not many people used it. Can't really judge to hard about that one tbh.

Welcome Bolrader highly appreciating your work for this project Good luck with the reverse engineering, wishing you all the best.

So this card shares its problems with Lost Disruptor. I think except Phase Tower there is not really any tower that is viable for PVP just due to its immobility and the fact that you thatfor can waste a lot of power that is basically unused. Even though its stats are kinda good the problem is that it only attacks air units. Problem about that is that generally you have way more ground units than air units, so that way this card can almost never be a defense for its own, so that way you would need an extra slot to just put this card in. On top of that you can generally put up a defense with another tower alone as there are some good options for bandit t2. Stone of Torment is pretty decent, same goes for Time Vortex and in t3 you get access to Necroblaster. If you face only air unit incomes like in 'Mo' you can use this card, even though i think i used Stone of Torment even on that map. Pretty much any Air-only tower has that problem( except Blaster Cannon which is pretty usefull in lvl 10 rPVE against Lost Souls). While most Ground-Only towers have similar problems it doesn't hit them even close as hard as Air-only towers as Ground units are way more common and you will face those much more frequently. This card definetly needs a change. Tbh though i am not exactly sure how to make this one good enough to really make it worth at least in some situations.

Sadly i can not add to much to this conversation but that when it was kinda good didn't played any kind of frost splash and after that there were just better cards to use in frost t2 splashes. I didnt saw that card in rPVE nor PVe in a very long time and thats for good reasons. How are you choosing cards btw? is it like randomly picking one or are you choosing them actively?

I guess you mean this discussion. Pretty sure this one was pretty irrelevant for PVE, can not really judge that well about it as i never played Pure Fire a whole bunch and actually saw almost noone using it for at least some years. Probably someone else has some more insight about that. It was at least not a 'must-have' for rPVE. At least i had no problem not using it.

This card is kinda decent if you want to start nature but can not afford shamans and do have very few charges. In combination with windweavers they are solid as a tank unit mainly. IIf you have enough Windweaver charges and any kind of cc spell (hurricane, root) you dont even need a tank unit though. At lvl 10 solo maps you should be fine with 6-7 windweavers and a dryade( frost) + 1-2 surge of lightand a single root generally. On my smurf account where i had almost no charges or expensive cards whatsoever and i needed every heal i could get for later stages of the game, i started nature and used that combination quite successfully. I mainly played solo lvl 9 on that account and got rather okayish times with pretty much Shrine of War being the only 'expensive' card and almost no charges at all.( deck lvl was around 25). I am not exactly sure what times i got but i think it was around 20-25 minutes. I guess you could even win most lvl 10 maps with that deck quite easily . Maybe i just post the deck i used( as far as i remember + rest assumptions of what i shouldve used): Most of that should be rather selfexplaining. If you need some extra power for t2 i found Stone of Torment a good addition. Most of that is kinda necassery even though you could be fine without the decomposer and fof and unholy hero. Not necassery but highly recommended is Healing Gardens and Ray of Light. In combination those can give you super nice healing power. Your charge prioratization are mostly the spells. I'd recommend putting at least 2 extra charges into Regrowth and 1 in each Equilibrium. Having 1 or 2 extra charges in Ray of Light is optional but i highly recommend it. You should have 1 extra charge in either one of the t3 units( i personally prefer Magma Hurler) and at least 2 extra charges in Giant Wyrm. Also at least 1 extra Charge in Offering and Rifle Cutltists is recommended. The Rest is rather 'nice-to-have' and you should be totally fine without any extra charges. That results in: U0: WindweaversWerebeastsNightcrawlerSwamp DrakeDecomposerFurnace of FleshBreeding GroundsHealing GardensShrine of WarUnholy HeroSurge of LightCurse of OinkU1: Magma HurlerRifle CultistsOfferingRay of LightEquilibriumU2: Giant WyrmRegrowthU3: /That would result in a total deck lvl of: 18 as a minimum to beat lvl 9 in a decent time. Pretty sure you can do it with less but it will increase the necassery time massively, as you will run out of charges quite constantly. I am not exactly sure what you will need for lvl 10, but depending on the map you might need a quite higher deck lvl. This deck will struggle against Stonekin maps at lvl 10 quite hard as it has hard times against Constructs and Tortuguns as well as against any kind of Bosses that you might face at t4. So for worst case scenario( Stonekin map and Boss at t4) i would recommend not even trying the map with this deck if you are not having massively improved your t2 and t3 regarding charges. I'd say you'd need at least deck around or it will soak up way to much time to make it worth. Any Bandit map should be possible with probably deck lvl around 30. This is based around assumptions though (so dont blame me if i am wrong ). Why am i getting this much off-topic nowadays ? Trying to avoid it in future .

nah, mana wing has same power costs by having equal attack at U3 but 120 HP less. And it has no Ability. So Deathglider is better, but not by that much

I think that Index thing on the frontpage would indeed be a nice addition. Probably you could even add at which side the cards have been discussed.

I don't really see a point in using this card tbh. Fire Nature got enough tools to deal with units on walls( hurricane, burrower) and the s knockback is nice, but the range is way to limited. Also you got tools to deal with s units in Fire Nature anyways ( hurricane, mine). The Stats are nothing to bother about either. And i never found the Transformation feature useful to say the least. Fire Nature got so many good options in t2 regarding units( burrower, vileblood, scythe fiends, gladiatrix, skyfire drake) that this card is just straight up not needed. I would rather choose any of the cards mentioned before picking up death glider. Especially as in rPVE you really want a slim t2. Guess theres not to much to say about this card. Actually besides using this one like few times to test it out i cant remember anyone using it.

TL;DR: You can use it if you want but generally i would prefer spells over this card as they have its use in later game stages as well. Support Units are with very few exceptions not viable as they simply do not fullfill the requirements for speedruns. Buildings are way more common, due to their often times global effects and use in a longer period of a game. Actually thats one of the few cards that are at least somewhat viable in rPVE that i cant remember to use ever. In theory it can work with something against Lost Reaver or Shadow Phoenixes. On the other hand the shielding is random afaik and that is always a negative and on top of it generally you are fine with Lost Reaver or Shadow Phoenix alone, those are simply strong enough to take out most t3 bases alone( especially shadow phoenix). And for Lost Reaver i would much rather prefer cc spells( Coldsnap) and buffs ( Life Weaving) to do the work. I mean you can use Lost Wanderer, just for the sake of using it. However it is more a support unit with its shielding ability, but as it effects only 1 unit at a time you need a unit worth using it on and to minimize the randomness. In speedruns this card is definetly not viable. What you want in rPVE speedruns is to get to t4 with in a reasonable time with using as less slots as possible As t4 is the major part of the map where you can 'win' most time. Thatfor a support unit is generally not usefull. You rather want as much damage as possible with as much defense as necassery, and support units generally offer not the right balance of those. You would even rather use support spells to achieve what you want than units or buildings, as spells generally offer at least some power in the t4 stages of a game as they do not bind power and you basically get the power back immediately by your void manipulation. The problem about most of those cards is that they do not offer more value regarding speed than other cards and are mostly optional. There obviously are support buildings and units that are the exception and are core parts of all/ most of the rPVE speedruns. Those are: Breeding GroundsAmii-MonumentFlame CrystalEmbalmers ShrineFurnace of FleshSoul SplicerShrine of WarConstruction Hut ( if you want to kill this a supportive unitResource Booster ( if you want to kill this a supportive building)Incredible MoThose are common cards that are kinda normal to appear in speedrun decks, even though some are more situational than others and you will never see all of them in the same deck. Some are more core than others but they all having their value in their respective decks. However there are supportive cards that are like very situational and you only ever see them when you have to many slots or they come in handy very much. Most of the time those cards are used only 4 Player speedruns and one of those players has pretty much only the job to support the other players by buildings and spells as he doesn't have the power to do much else anyways due to whatever reason. He will build cards like. Healing GardensWheel of GiftsMost of the supportive cards mentioned in the first listOther buildings that are used rarely but do have their moments to shine: DecomposerMark of the KeeperPortal NexusTunnel( with Burrowing Ritual)Warden's SigilStone of Torment ( even though that ones not a support building)Makeshift Tower ( even though that ones not a support building)As you can see those lists only include buildings. The only units that are generally not used for attacking and you can find in a speedrun decks are: Fallen SkyelfCultist MasterRifle CultistsI guess thats caused by the fact that there aren't all that many units that are usefull in t4 ( especially as you can not keep those alive that needs to be in the fights as they will just die to all the damage they will get as you army is generally very small. They'd straight up die. Fallen Skyelf you send in when the base is cleared besides a boss and you can focus the boss down. Cultist Master is used for void manipulation and Rifle Cultists to get your charges back. And before t4 it is pretty much pointless to get a supportive unit as it soakes up a slot for t4 buffing and its use is so limited. Like the only exception might be Dryades and Snapjaws. However Nature t1 is the very last thing you ever want to pick in a speedrun and even if you do Dryade is optional( and no shamans are not viable). Snapjaws are super situational as well. The only real purpose i see is in 2 Player Lost Souls Map. If you have a massive t2 with Lost Vigils and Treefiends and get Lost Vigil incomes, they can be worth. On the other Hand you generally start fire yourself or get massive help from the guy on the other position( or both). You will generally not have enough slots to put this in when you are soloing the map, so well i guess you can use it if you really want. Besides that i couldnt think of any support unit that is worth it using in speedruns( i might let one slip through though or you might just blow my mind with a nasty new strategy?) Anyways this one went really long so im sorry for that

The stats itself are good as already mentioned but i dont really see a place where it is needed. If you play LSS you really do not need this card as ground presence. Either you play Bloodhorns or just straight up use fallen skyelf( not as fast as XL counters but you have an extra LSS for majority of the map. Also you are not risking of it getting focused down. You really dont need ground presence in bases when you play LSS, so instead of binding 240/300 power in a ground presence card that might die in fights it is superior to just have a rifle cultists one base behind your LSS( you obviously are not allowed to let anything to slip through and be aware of incomes that might pass the way, so you really gonna need to care about positioning and the way you choose to go). Generally its only usefull to have an XL counter in your LSS deck if you face stonekin maps, as they have generally more High HP XL bosses ( especially true for 2 Player maps). However on those maps Batariel is superior anyways, but thats for a different time. Another point actually is that ground presence can literally fck your air units against Lost Souls. Those nasty necrofurys are not able to focus air units right? well they still can hurt them. When your ground presence is right under your ships, they do take damage( not like the ground presence would live for long anyways). Really just not worth to put jorne into your deck generally, unless you wanna build a deck with as much legendary cards as possible

Nomads are the standard PVE card, for a good reason. Red affinity was doing a shit ton of damage( not like fire would need that). I personally prefered the green affinity just cuz mines do the work anyways and in some situations the extra health you gain from the passive comes in very handy( when facing some heavy Lost Souls t2 bases, like shielded mana beasts and lost dancers). Mines still kills it all but it takes little more time and mana beasts and lost dancers actually do some damage. Even though it does not really matter what units you use in t1 if you use mines, you just gonna need enough HP for mines doing the work, at least for lvl 9 and vast majority of lvl 10. On top of that its the only card that can trap incomes effectively(except you are facing Lost Dancers in which case you can do it with any squad unit). That can enable you taking t2 without pulling the t3 base at outer positions( 99.95% of the time t2 is not to close to t3 at all by itself, the base just gets pulled when the income pulls it). Obviously you can do that also at t3 and t4. Same goes in normal PVE. Pritstift and me actually used that strategy helping us to win a Community Challenge . Where Nomads really kicks in are those nasty lvl 10 Lost Souls speedruns where you fight against Lost Vigils and multiple Treefiends and need to get in range to erupt the spawn camp. Generally you can do it with 3-4 Nomads in time, 3 if you have good coordination with your teammates, 4 if you have bad coordination or gotta have to erupt it alone( for whatever reason you would do it alone lol). You really need the tankiness and swift of nomads to do that. If you have 4 nomads and really good coordination with your teammates you should be able to kill the whole t2 with just those( except the tower probably, even though thats possible as well). The ability isn't that great tbh but it doesnt really matter as the role of Nomads is not really attacking. Even if you dont wanna have any archers in your deck, it generally is more effective to just use eruptions to kill thei air stuff, you just gotta need to hit 2 targets and its already more effective than the spear. It really only is worth if you cant hit 2 targets with eruptions and need more than 300 damage to kill the air unit, happens super rarely though and most peopl have some kind of anti air anyways.

This card does not fit my playstyle at all... i truely hate it and will never touch it as long as i can avoid it somehow ( it is somewhat necassery for some speedrun strategies) so i didnt even played those maps.. or at least those positions). Way overrated for rPVE imo and just a card that provides a lot of safety and room for mistakes in that mode, slows down the game without gaining you any kind of fun. On top of it it was probably the most unnecassery card in nature rPVE decks (talking about decks for lvl 9 as most people never won against lvl 10 maps(except bandits). In 99% of the maps you would get away with 5-7 windweavers + root/hurricane + 1-2 surge of light. Only exception: shielded mana beast at tier 2 base and mana beast income from t3 which might cause 1-2 extra heals. Just not worth putting in shamans and slowing down the game. Imo spellheavy decks are superior for rPVE( at least regarding speed, can be a lot of fun as well though). Shamans are that expensive and you need at least 2 or 3 of them that you almost have to keep them to fight for t3, which can destroy some fun strategies for t3 clearing. I would probably say that shamans are as boring as LSS-Spam or Shadow Phoenixes with Embalmer Shrine ... they just are way slower on top of that.. --> Shaman just not the type of card that really fits my kind of playstyle, wouldnt mind seeing this card removed This post is somewhat messy and unstructured, still hope you get what i mean.

1408.

This card was key card for (almost) any rPVE 1 and 2 player speedrun scenarios for multiple years( until the nerfs of wog, second chance and soul splicer-fof-embalmer-combo). Still very relevant in most frost t1 speedrun decks, just due to its efficiency with relatively low amounts of units( like @Mental Omega) just proofed in his post above, even though it took it hits from a nerf some time ago. The synergy with Ice Barrier is just insane. On top of that you get nice s-knockback from frost mages, making most t2 bases relatively easy to run over. (Standard t2 in solo rPVE lvl 10 should take about 5-7 frost mages + 1 home soil + 1 ice barrier, depending on how well you approach the base and what units are in there) Home soil works at least with Matter Mastery, cant really judge for other non ground presence buildings like the bomb from Altar of Chaos or the likes though. This synergy massively helps against Twilight lvl 10 rPVE( especially 4 player). Takeover the Willzappers before they paralyze your units( yes that is possible if you have fast fingers ), and suddenly you can homesoil huge parts of your army and get some extra cc on top of it .

Problem about dropping the faster build time is that you would have to go 3 frost orbs to get that with Kobold Inc., and otherwise i do not see a chance of this being a card that can be used offensive at least. It wouldnt matter that much for defensive purposes however, and the power flow into void will help for that purpose a lot. I like that powerreturn to void pool a lot though. It has its use for defense and offense and seems to be a good addition for that card. It really depends if you want to make the card more offensively or defensively. Maybe you could handle that with the affinities? One is giving a rather big Building time decrease but no/next to no Powerflow into the voidpower pool, the other affinity does it the other way around. Another possibility to handle that could be to make a fix powerflow into the voidpool for both affinities and give them 2 totally different bonus abilites. One is about the building time decrease, the other one is something defensivly, like getting an iceshield after the building is done( that one will not refresh though). I really have no doubts that the orb requirements really f*ck that card the hard way. One frost orb is almost a must imo as it be way to limited to few buildings otherwise. On the other hand we really have to care about the strength of the buffs in that case. It shouldn't buff the defense of offensive factions to hard. I guess you could regulate that with the 'secondary' effect of the spell mostly. Alternatively you could buff buildings from frost splashes a bit more than non frost splashes, but that might make the card overcomplicated, not entirely sure if it is even necassery, but that be kept in mind if changing the card.