Treim

Nice to have but nowhere near necassery in rPVE, the frost affinity of course. Nature t1 does not have any issues with t2 clear with just windweavers, hurricane/root and SoL. Only Lost Souls with Mana Beasts and Lost Dancers can be a little bit tricky where a little extra help could be used well. Due to Lost Dancer neutralizing the Dryade effect it is pretty much useless. If you plan on clearing t3 with just Nature t1 and you can not rely on your teammate Dryade can for sure help a lot.

Glad to help you mate.

Nature affinity has generally much more useage as it also recharges on spells and buildings, frost affinitygets simply outclassed by that. This is the most important card to enable rPVE lvl 9 with deck lvl 0. In combination with a deck balanced around low charges it becomes super important to use this as soon as it gets off cooldown to make this somewhat efficient. It also is possible to get back 2 charges for the same card. Thatfor very valuable even for decks that are based around only 1 T4 card (hello LSS - no, the nature affinity is not optimal) - especially when Motivate is used. That way you can constantly Motivate and still get extra units for the T4 army without running out of charges- if done properly. Also very valuable for spells that have a rather low amount of charges (Cluster Explosion, etc.). Allows you to constantly spam it without running out of charge. This cards is in pretty much any deck where i get a shadow orb. Simply a great card that shows that even the very cheap cards can have a very high value in a lot of decks.

Really liked this card for rPVE. Fire doesn't need anything but Nomads, Mine and Eruption to clear most t3's. Only Lost Souls can be a struggle, but Gladiatrix does a great job dealing with Treefiends and Lost Vigils. Unless you really want to play Shadow Phoenix this is the card to go for in any other fire splash with access to Mine. Not that great when starting with other factions or not having Mine as they take quite some time to kill s units (thats why its so good with Mine). Very good even even in lvl 10. Highly recommend it for any t1 fire start.

The Worldbreaker Gun strategy works around Kobold Inc. and not Kobold Laboratory. I think this card has some value when facing attacks that are coming in waves and you already have the first line of towers ready. Generally it is not necassery to build a 2nd or 3rd row of towers. I think that Kobold Laboratory can be a good support building for those situations. Especially when you do not have access to the very expensive towers like Worldbreaker Gun or Church of Negation, which can take out those waves basically instantly. Necorblaster and the like are good towers but they will often not take out everything instantly, especially when theres couple of XL units. Definetly not necassery but it can make things easier.

Didnt know i was a fcking train.

Is pretty much useless for any Shadow Splash as FoF is much greater. It can be worth in some multiplayer speedruns. That is because the void return also works for units of allies. When you rush t3 in rPVE lvl 9 this card makes sense to get a little extra instead of just killing the unnecassery t1 units. It is definetly just an optional choice even in those situations and far from being considered Core. I also used this for Necro's Skylord Challenge at the map Crusade due to the exact same reasons. Really just a mediocre card at best. Gets way outclassed by FoF and even Decomposer.

@Mental Omega U0: When 1 cannon can attack damage is ~1264/20. When 3 cannons can attack damage is ~ 1992/20. When 5 cannones can attack damage is ~ 2720/20. When all 8 cannons can attack damage is 3812~/20. The little cannons accurately each deal 364/20 which comes down accurately to 52 damage every 3 seconds. The target which got focussed by the big cannon had 900 extra damage which also perfectly fits the 180 damage every 4 seconds. I avoided the AOE damage by splitting the bloodhorns far enough. U3: 1 cannon: 1718/20 3 cannons: 2754/20 5 cannons: 3790/20 8 cannons: 5344/20 Little cannons: 518/20 --> 74/3 Big cannon 1718-518=1200/20 --> 240 Same setups as for U0. At least the values for single target damage seems to be correct. Not exactly sure how they got to the values for U0 and U3.

Well just a L-Unit in t4 - nothings really great about it. Although it can be used in a low cost rPVE deck there is plenty of better options with whatever splash you use. It is quite fun using a lot of them though while Rifle Cultists are using their Dark Grenade for quite good damage. With the deck mentioned above Lost Souls is basically an instant loss; Twilight, Bandit and Stonekin is manageable tho. Obviously the problem for this deck is that it is very vulnerable for burst damage and knockbacks resulting in quite significant weaknesses that can only partly be covered by intelligent useage of Dark Grenade and cc. Therefor generally just not worth using.

You are correct when saying that Bandit is definetly the very best faction to play spellheavy as both have great offensive spells. Fire Nature works still very well though, thats also because the Abomination Ability is almost like a damage spell itself and therefor works rather good in this deck. Actually you can also play Lost Souls this way. Ice Tornado, Frost Shard(is it called like that?), Frenetic Assault, Infect, Etheral Storm, Lost Evocation sum up to quite a little bit of damage. It is weaker than Fire splashes but still quite reasonable to use. Actually a t3 pyro deck is also mostly a spellheavy deck. While Ashbone Pyros do some damage without Frenetic Assault, Infect, Thunderstorm/Soulshatter, Netherwarp, Oink and heals there is no way to make this deck work. Basically any deck with a reasonable amount of okayish damage spells can be played that way. I dont think that any pure nature/shadow or frost deck has a decent way to make this work tho. Fire should work tho. Shadow Nature is dependent on the enemy. Against Bandits you might get away with it, anything else will most likely give it a really hard time as you dont have any t4 spells. Frenetic Assault is great to compensate some of the weaknesses but i do not think that it is enough to completely cover it up. It is definetly slow. A 3x Shadow, 1x Nature deck with Death Rays as the key card will definetly have it easier. Lets not talk about Stonekin. I don't think there is any way to make this deck even remotely fast, no matter what you do with it .

Might be a good idea, to just write down the most important things in a word document within the next weeks? Then you got them ready when you get access. This topic will definetly not get any smaller and reading through the currently 39 side is already quite time consuming, especially when you want to remember some parts of it. To Skycatcher: Never had it due to its rather high costs. Also i don't think it would fit my playstyle very well. You can definetly get away with Abominations + Cluster Explosion, Earthshaker, Inferno, Thunderstorm + SoW + Twilight Pestilence. Although it can probably not be considered a "pure" Twilight deck anymore by relying mostly on spells that are not Twilight, it surely is faster in most cases. Still a pretty good and definetly underrated card. I was actually wondering why it found so little play as most people do rely mostly on units and do not share a spellheavy playstyle. The ability is very usefull for fights that do not result in instant death for bases.

Well in PVE you can pretty much play everything and make it work, except cards like Voidstorm and Willzapper. Firesworn is not a bad unit, generally there is just better options. Most is based on personal preferences. I, for example really enjoyed using Lost Converter, even though i never saw anyone else using it. Unless you want to play highly competetively you can just play whatever you like and considering the current situaton of competetiveness in speedruns (for rPVE) you can have some variety even from a tactical point of view even there , f.e. you can probably reach Top 3 or at least Top 5 (for solo rPVE) with a Bandit deck. Anything beyond that is most likely not possible unless you find a shortcut that noone else does but thats still a pretty good place. Just keep playing your favourite units and do not care to much about the "best choice" when you just want to experience fun

This is actually a speech of QueekQueek in the map "Ocean" New quote:

There is no need to fix this as it is prohibited to fake quotes in the Forum Rules: 3. Impersonation Along with this being seen as pathetic, impersonating a BattleForge Reborn staff member or forum user to do harm, create fake posts or announcements in order to make others believe they originate from the impersonated person, or unjustly cause confusion among other users will result in immediate account suspension for an indeterminate duration without warning. This can indirectly also be found in Rule 2 (The parts i mean are fat and underlined): 2. Spamming and/or Trolling Spamming as well as trolling is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, the following: Excessively communicating the same phrase, similar phrases, gibberish, or any repetitive/successive posts of the same content Creating threads for the sole purpose of causing unrest and disturbance within the forums or (parts of) their community Causing disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making severely off-topic posts outside of the Off-Topic forum board that may ruin the thread, and insulting other posters Making non-constructive posts Making senseless or other rule 2-infringing posts to increase rank "Adding fuel to the fire" or ensure the continuation or lengthening of fights, harassment, insults, and flame wars Abusing the Report tool (false alarms, nonsensical messages) Posts marking a thread numbered, IBTL, TL;DR, or any other fad statements Creating duplicate accounts for whatever reason Mind that these rules apply as much to the Off-Topic board as to any other forum board. Examples of any of the above will be deleted at sight. Depending on re-occurrence and/or the severity of the section 2 violation, this may result in warnings or direct account suspension or restriction for an indeterminate time. I am certain that the BFR-Team is highly aware of this and will definetly restrain the abuse of faking quotes. For the full set of Forum Rules, go here:

rarely used in rPVE. Nomads and Sunderer are generally superior as they have more health and mines will generally do enough damage to kill most of the units. Even as a complementary unit Sunstriders are better as the only hard t2 occurs against Lost Souls. Sunstrider massively helps against Lost Dancers and can even stop the spawns. Firesworns will get trouble when facing Lost Dancers due to their low health and the range disadvantage. They are superior when facing Mana beasts but unless theres more than 2 and they all have an ice shield, they shouldnt be a problem with 2 mines and 3 nomads/2 Sunderer. Has some rare useage in 2 player rPVE lvl 10 speedruns against Lost Souls when facing 4 L creatures (Treefiends or Mana Beasts) and at least 3 of those are shielded and the income to t1 is not a Lost Dancer. 3 Mines can get tricky killing all those shielded units and the L Damage really helps a lot killing those. Also you can afford to give up Sunstriders as they are only in the deck to trap Lost Dancers anyways. Only happened to me 2 or 3 times. Even rarer useage in 4 player rPVE lvl 9 speedruns. When facing Lost Souls and being on position 1 or 4 and facing at least 3 shielded Mana Beasts + no Lost Dancer income + close base to t3 without Lost Vigils + only 2 shielded Treefiends or Mana Beasts + only 1 of those gets aggroed when taking t2. Firesworns allows you to take t2 wells a little bit earlier and help with t2 clear and do not disturb trapping the income thatfor they are worth. Very rare occasion and only happened to me once.

No need. A moderator will move the topic sooner or later. If you want you can just ask one to quicken the process

actually there is for most lvl 9's. And the problem about the strategy i mentioned isn't that it is slower than Shadow Phoenix but pretty much anything else as well. Harvester, Shadow Mage and even DA spam should all be faster .

More of a fun card with not to much of a use. I used this in combination with Undead Army and Embalmers Shrine. I basically send in 2 or 3 forsaken or nox trooper cast Befallen's Curse and wait for my units to die before activating Embalmer's Shrine and using Undead Army. When Undead Army dies or Befallen's Curse gets off Cooldown you recast it until the base is dead. It is pretty slow but definetly acceptable against Bandits, Stonekin and Twilight. Against Lost Souls with some Shields this will take ages to take down t3 though, especially when facing something that has CC against small units like Lost Priest or Lost Vigil.

In terms of speed Bandits are actually the 3rd fastest deck - right after LSS and Batariel. The heavy amounts of damage spells just evaporates bases. On top of that you got Bloodhorns who basically 3 shot any boss except Commando Walker. You got access to early resource boosters, Shadow Phoenix and void manipulation. Sometimes they do struggle against Lost Souls due to the anti spell buildings and the heavy amount of damage from Necrofurys but in terms their is barely anything that can compete. And otherwise for PVE really anything is viable. You just need to find a way to make it work. I don't think that there are a whole lot of t3 units that are viable to clear a rPVE lvl 9 under any circumstances. The only one that i am sure can deal with it is probably a Ashbone Pyro deck as you got Equilibrium, Frenetic Assault, Infect and Netherwarp to avoid and heal a lot of the damage. The only other deck that i am aware of working halfway decent is build around Giant Slayer. I don't think there is anything else that should work at a t4 stage into the game. So Corsair not working in t4 is not about the unit being to weak but simply that t3 units are not designed to work at that stage of the game.

For rPVE just not the greatest choice. It is more of a supplementary card and will never take a base by itself. Considering that you will generally use 2 slots at most 3 slots for t2 cards, this card is pretty far down the list as in later stages it will do nothing for you. On top of that Nature and Fire t1 can easily played without any t2 card unless you face Lost Souls this cards becomes even more of a waste in those decks. The damage is just not enough to justify putting it in those decks as you will probably only use cards that are actually helping you to take out Lost Souls or have some value even in later stages (f.e Curse of Oink, or Creeping Paralysis in pure Nature). The biggest problem about this card is that is more of a comfort card. It is not terrible but it will probably never be the deciding factor on if you win or loose a fight about t3 either. You can probably just wait for 1 or 2 more units and with good use of cc you will most likely get a very similar result. Necassery to do this is depending on the unit just little power more and a good use of cc. Saving a card slot for just this is very worth it.

how are you getting at 10200 Testing in the Forge results in about 8000 per 20 for groups that are perfectly arranged for the LSS and at best 2000 per 20 against single target. Doesnt include Counters though, but as most of the enemy Hp is stored in L and XL units so that shouldn't make to much of a difference? I mean it is still to much but i am wondering where this 10200 are coming from.

Argueably one of the most important rPVE speedrun cards. On Lost Souls maps there is no replacement for this card at all. Bandits it is quite a bit faster than Batariel decks. Stonekin it is quite a bit slower than Batariels. On Twilight maps it depends on the map whethere LSS with Bloodhorns, Batariel with Bloodhorns or only Bloodhorns are the fastest. Generally you will be able to get a good time no matter on what you play it. Top 3 or at least Top 5 is easily manageable no matter the enemy. If you want to compete for first place you will need to adapt depending on the enemy though. Probably the most popular unit for rPVE, even non speedruns due to the fact that it is spamable, has easy to fullfill orb requirements and thatfor splashable and is obviously even when not used to its fullest potential rather fast - not as fast as a spell heavy bandits deck but still faster than most other stuff. The shooting while moving ability easily covers for positional errors on top of generally running it with heals. Just very easy to use overall when not running and a power minimum. That is not necassery true for actual speedruns, where you are at the minimum limit power wise. Choosing the correct path becomes even more important when getting to the absolut maximum as otherwise the chance of getting wiped is quite high, even with flawless void manipulation and cooldown management. To use LSS at their maximum potential you will have to use Motivate and Flame Crystal which is quite a bit of action you have to take into consideration. It is way easier to run with Batariels or Bloodhorns through a map than it is with LSS actually. Especially as you have to keep managing a ground unit one base behind your ships to spawn new ones. It lacks damage against bosses which will take quite some time, especially when not moving LSS properly as their damage output against single targets can get manipulated/increased when moving the ships in tight circles around the target. Still far from something like Bloodhorn. --> to powerful in casual play due to good results even when mishandling the unit. Equal amount of skill necassery to handle on low power situations. Apart from that the green affinity has one of the very best healing abilities in the game and is quite fun to use that way and one of the key units for Lost Souls rPVE decks imo and even in other splashes very worth using. Sadly almost nobody recognizes this as it needs a little bit of set up and using a nature spell instead is probably less troublesome.

Pretty much must-have for pure fire rPVE decks. 2-3 Molochs with 2-3 Batariels and hardly anything dies with Unity. Needs some experience to move effectively to the next base without loosig to much time or HP. Struggles pretty hard against Lost Souls as Lost Dancers can negate the effect of Unity and the anti spell buildings limit the damage output especially earlier in the fight quite significantly. Well tbh the only t4 units that are viable for rPVE speedruns are LSS, Batariel as main units and Bloodhorn as a complementary unit .

In rPVE there is generally a lot better options. : Nature t1 can almost always get t3 with just t1 units and maybe some cc from t2. Get your windweavers and maybe a dryade and youre pretty much good to go against anything but Lost Souls. For that occasion you can simply get Creeping Paralysis and Oink and focus down those big L Creatures. If you want to use a t2 unit you will most likely use Deep One as they are much versitile. The only real reason to use Mauler is for facing Twilight Treefiends which can easily get rooted to deal with Lost Vigils and the likes first. : Same t1 strategy is useable in Twilight as well. In addition Fire t1 can be played similarly with Nomads/Sunderer, Mine and Eruption. Lost Vigils are quite hard to deal with in that deck as you are missing effective anti air as even if you use Sunstriders they will get destroyed pretty quickly and Blaster Cannon is probably not in your deck either. 5 Eruptions will do the job but its quite inefficient. If you wanna use a t2 unit Gladiatrix is probably the best choice as it greatly deals with the only hard to beat units (Lost Vigils and Treefiends) very well in combination with oink. Great damage and very effective in regards of focus. Vileblood is generally a very solid pick as well and i'd prefer it over Mauler anytime for random maps. Pretty much the same as pure nature. Instead of Creeping Paralysis you have Coldsnap here, To deal with Lost Vigils you can use Aggressor. Crystal Fiends are quite usefull as well, unless you build at least 3 or 4 though they will most likely not enough to get through Lost Vigils without any casualties. Aggressor is quite pricey but it has the big advantage of being able to deal with Lost Vigils in addition to Treefiends. Shadow Phoenix. Amii-Phantom. Darkelf Assassins. Mauler is only really usefull when facing Twilight Treefiends. As t2 units will generally only be used to clear t3 it is generally not worth putting such a situational card as you will generally only use 1 unit in t2. Thatfor versitility is much greater than specific strength. Unless you play Motm and you can exactly tell what is going to happen there is no way Mauler will be the best pick for your deck over the course of more than 5 games.

Shadow has many good options in t3 so it is generally not put in for the t4 clear but rather for the ability in later stages. In rPVE speedruns it can be used in LSS decks as a situational card (when facing at least 2 high HP bosses - such as Commando Walker). As the ability has a high risk high reward nature calculating properly is key. Sadly LSS have a rather irregular damage output that can differ quite a lot if you do not move them properly. With a little bit of training it will definetly speed you up though.