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FinallyForged

Refresh in PvP needed

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The biggest issue with the game is the lack of PvP variety, I used to play this back in the EA days and I think people drifted away from the game for this reason, preferring the matchmaking of RTS and MOBA games.

I would suggest adding more PvP variety that will allow newer players to practice with their lowly cards and have fun doing so (hopefully some day when there are large enough numbers we can get matchmaking).

To get this going I propose a casual PvP non-ranked 3v3 and 5v5 maps that people can practice and have fun with since 1on1 against experienced fully decked out players isn't much fun.
Later on these maps can be made into ranked versions.

 

Here are the details for such a specialized 5v5 map.

a)   The map is designed somewhat like a MOBA but without minions.
b)   Just like a MOBA players spawn at opposite sides of the map near their base and like a typical sports game that requires you to score a goal at the opposite sides' end, you're goal is to destroy their base.
c)   The defenses are put up by the players themselves, but walls exist between the player bases and the 3 lanes.
d)   Like a football game players will decided whether there are 2 players on defense & 3 on attack or any other variation such as all 5 on attack (like i said it is meant to be a fun map). 
e1)  There are 4 "jungle" or NPC areas (1:Desert, 2:Jungle, 3:Grassland, 4:Tundra); these are either side of the 3 lanes which have strategically placed access points.
e2)  The jungle areas contain NPC bases that when conquered offer rewards (eg. a juggernaut that can you can control).

Such an implementation should hopefully spawn lots of strategic variety which is somewhat the intention so as to draw out some fun from the game.


A very rough sketch of this idea:

1294234945_BF5v5Teammap.jpg.a00d02c71f989b45ebe8bbdb486121d6.jpg

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you can already make the map with the editor and upload it to the server so everyone will be able to download it.

I see few flaws in that design thou, in moba games you have one character that you control that can not be on all places, but in BF you can have 120 characters that will be placed on whole map, so that invalidates your choices for point "d)" so everyone will be in offense, all the time.

Putting NPC to the PvP sounds interesting, but I also heard that there was maps with NPC and most of them was not good, but feel free to try.

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I haven't tried the map editor before but I'll give it a go.

The NPCs are there primarily as a way of gaining rewards, so it's all down to implementing those rewards and the value they add to game-play.

Regarding the other point. There would be choke points that need defending with maybe some statues/orbs/wells and some simple ready build defenses that would need to be overcome to get to the base, naturally players can opt to bolster the defenses here.

The need for a teams defenses essentially all comes down to card selection, so I don't know how feasible it is to alter the pre-game interface so that all the team's cards are displayed on-screen for a quick overview to help make selection easier. Together with this feature also add a timer (say 3 minutes) for the team card selections, this is something that works well in other games.

You mention the character population and I do see that being an issue in this type of game, so is it possible for a character control limit of such as say 5 XL max for each player (with variation for a mixture of the other sizes)?

I guess what we're talking here is more or a new game mode than just a new map.

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did you ever tried to looking at someone else's deck? :thinking: cards are quite big so I can not imagine scrolling trough (5+5)*20 cards in 3 minutes. you may try to picture it, but I do not think having 200 cards to scroll would be good. Time limit would not be a problem.

5*5=25 XL units :thinking: that still seems as a lot to handle and thanks to teleportation I do not think you can compare it to moba games :thinking: and right now we can not control unit limit

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Since there are limitations, I believe it is not possible to make a "moba" within the BF.
However, I imagine it is possible to implement "functions" to create a "similar" game mode.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But in the introduction, we can only use certain cards after a certain "event".

Perhaps, if you implement this kind of "limitation" on a custom map, it might be possible to create something like a moba.
And as if there are only 2 resource types in the BF (orbs, and the other one there that you spend to summon each unit, which I've forgotten the name now and I'm feeling silly about it).

I will put by points to try to argue more "explained" what I imagined.

a) The player would be free to set up his deck.
b) However, you could only start each game with tier 1 cards.
c) The neutral monster fields scattered around the map would release the use of tier 2 cards, as well as the monuments for "orbs" would be in the jungle.
d) Once a neutral field is defeated. The player would have access to a certain type of card (tier 2 cards), but could only evoke such units with the second monument, which in order to achieve this, would eliminate a monument site that would be guarded by units.
e) Another type of "reward" that I believe might be possible would be, after eliminating certain neutral fields, the player gains some unit (once all monsters in the neutral field die, the player gains control of the finished unit). ) This could be prepared just as there are in some missions, would leave such a unit in the neutral field "standing or locked in a cage" and after all enemy units are killed, you would approach and gain control of such a unit.
But it should be a higher unit than you would control, for example if you eliminate a windweaver squad you would get a unit of 2 orbs.

I hope you have clearly explored my idea (I thought well after reading the topic to try to argue briefly). I tried to search the memory for things that already existed so as not to add complex mechanics to the game. But only, to "slightly" modify some existing xD.

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Has anyone tried Kaldra's PvP maps with neutral units? I'd be down to try it with someone if they are interested. If it is good we could try to create a few more or modify it.

 

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:25 PM, Upoo said:

c) The neutral monster fields scattered around the map would release the use of tier 2 cards, as well as the monuments for "orbs" would be in the jungle.

Where the monuments go is one of those critical design decision for any new game mode, I feel that having them in the jungle area would turn the map into any existing PvP map. Fighting for one monument outside the bases might be an option.

 

On 7/24/2019 at 5:25 PM, Upoo said:

e) Another type of "reward" that I believe might be possible would be, after eliminating certain neutral fields, the player gains some unit (once all monsters in the neutral field die, the player gains control of the finished unit). ) This could be prepared just as there are in some missions, would leave such a unit in the neutral field "standing or locked in a cage" and after all enemy units are killed, you would approach and gain control of such a unit.
But it should be a higher unit than you would control, for example if you eliminate a windweaver squad you would get a unit of 2 orbs.

This would need some careful consideration since teams would just rush to get the highest unit available as a reward if it is just a free for all, so you would need to restrict the reward of a unit to those who have the equivalent number of orbs.

 

On 7/24/2019 at 4:22 PM, Kubik said:

I can not imagine scrolling trough (5+5)*20 cards in 3 minutes.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree since such a thing might not even be possible, I was imagining the 5*20 cards visible on screen at once (the other side's cards should not be visible).

 

On 7/24/2019 at 4:22 PM, Kubik said:

5*5=25 XL units :thinking: that still seems as a lot to handle and thanks to teleportation I do not think you can compare it to moba games :thinking: and right now we can not control unit limit

Mostly people would just control their units as a group but if someone feels they can micromanage units on different paths they could do that.
Regarding the teleportaion, I had given that a fleeting thought but sort of dismissed it since similar concepts in MOBA games do exist, yeah it's not like for like so there could be issues.

It's sad that that population limitations cannot be applied since we could take that and other limitation to create rules specific to any new game mode - such as banning specific cards.

 

I'm not really saying here that we recreate a MOBA, but just that we can take elements from other games to create a new game mode so as to give the game a refresh.
But these are really moot points if there are too many restrictions on changing the game in order to create a new game mode.
 

 

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On 7/23/2019 at 8:42 PM, Kubik said:

you can already make the map with the editor and upload it to the server so everyone will be able to download it.

make the rule just optional (just text on the screen), and if people like them, we may take a look at how to enforce them

but until I see that people like map like that I am not going to try to figure that out.

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