Command Delay

[DarcReaver]

Hello,

don't know if it was discussed in the past - but isn't a 500ms command delay quite outdated nowadays? I know that Warcraft III (and Bnet in general) had a 250ms command delay to prevent that players with low internet connections to cause lags ingame (28.8k Modems were a thing back in 2003 afterall). For Wc 3 it was recently removed by Blizzard, along with some QoL changes and removed performance limitations to game clients.

I would suppose that the command delay in bforge is for a similar reason.

Would it be possible to lower the command delay to "modern time" delay by around 50-75%?

Edited June 10, 2019 by DarcReaver

[Kubik]

I do not know where you came to number 500 ms, because steps are 100 ms

[DarcReaver]

40 minutes ago, Kubik said:

I do not know where you came to number 500 ms, because steps are 100 ms

That's what is shown ingame when you hover over the ping light.

[Kubik]

unfortunately the numbers in game are not always correct. But 500 ms (if correct) is problem on your side, probably your connection.

[DarcReaver]

1 hour ago, Kubik said:

unfortunately the numbers in game are not always correct. But 500 ms (if correct) is problem on your side, probably your connection.

I'm not talking about the individual ping. I'm talking about the command delay which is a set value that is added on top of a player's ping.

I.e. if your ping is 120ms and command delay is 500ms the total execution delay is 620ms. If ping is 120ms and command delay is 250ms total delay is 370ms.
 

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/t/artificial-delay/4169

[Kubik]

you do not know you ping, or do you? game does not show the ping at all.

From the video you posted I have no idea what is measured, because the timer started after something appear on the screen, not when he clicked.

No idea how it is implemented in star craft, but unless the implementation is something insane you math is wrong. By my expectation ping 120 ms would mean delay anywhere between 120 ms and 620 ms, for 500 ms steps, or 120 ms - 370 ms for 250 ms steps.

BF uses variation of lockstep protocol with 100 ms steps. so if your ping to server is 120 ms then delay will be anywhere between 120 ms and 220 ms.

(I did not include any input delays in the calculations, because they are hard to measure)

[DarcReaver]

7 minutes ago, Kubik said:

you do not know you ping, or do you? game does not show the ping at all.

From the video you posted I have no idea what is measured, because the timer started after something appear on the screen, not when he clicked.

No idea how it is implemented in star craft, but unless the implementation is something insane you math is wrong. By my expectation ping 120 ms would mean delay anywhere between 120 ms and 620 ms, for 500 ms steps, or 120 ms - 370 ms for 250 ms steps.

BF uses variation of lockstep protocol with 100 ms steps. so if your ping to server is 120 ms then delay will be anywhere between 120 ms and 220 ms.

(I did not include any input delays in the calculations, because they are hard to measure)

The click is the order that is given to the unit, and the counter is the time it takes until the unit responds to the order. For bnet this value used to be a lot higher, that's why the creator asked if there was a hidden change to the command delay in a recent Starcraft patch.

I'm asking because it seems like the units are incredibly unresponsive to orders, especially when forced to use their abilities. Which reminds me a lot of Warcraft 3, although even with a higher command delay in place the units control a lot more "direct and precise" than in Bforge. But when casting spells like Ray of Light or Eruption the delay seems to be a lot lower. That's why I got the feeling that there is some kind of artificial delay for input is in place.  

Edited June 11, 2019 by DarcReaver

[Kubik]

Never have that problem, but as side note my actual ping to server is just few ms.

[InsaneHawk]

Hello,

You shouldn't trust what the game display as it's most likely inaccurate (it was the case before, that didn't change). But there's something you're right about, it's the feeling you have about units, but again, you probably don't remember as it was ages ago now, but it was the same "slow reaction" experience, if not worst from time to time. This game isn't well optimized or well coded, as Starcraft or other RTS can be, we can even say it is actually poorly made, and there's not much on we can do about it, we can't rewrite the whole game's networking system, there's already too much things we have to do so most likely the experience you'll getting will be the same.

Also, as Kubik mentioned there could be a ping issue, servers are hosted in France by a great known service called "OVH" and we have quite the big dedicated there for Skylords, so there shouldn't be any ping/latency issues on our side as they're offering one of the greatest hosting service in Europe. If you're outside of Europe, there definitely could be more issues with latency, as we only have a European service.

Also don't forget that BattleForge was and still is, a slower paced RTS game, compared to other high APM games, so that combined to all problems the game have that we have to deal with the best we can, plus a possible other issue, that makes you feel this way about the game. Game has been made by a small studio even tho it was under EA's Trademark, the studio behind BattleForge wasn't big and it was approx. made in between 2006 and 2009, so everything is old in this game, systems are old, libraries are old, it didn't get the support and QA service other games had.

We're sorry that we can't offer a better experience, but this is the best we can do with the stuff we have!

Sincerely,
InsaneHawk.