Dying Breed

[Sacriefice]

There are a couple of cards that I feel like discussing, but I don't like collection topics and somehow this card bothers me the most recently. 

I have to mention that I currently don't play pvp, though this card is clearly a pvp card. I used to play some pvp back in the day though.
The old Battleforge wiki even mentions that it is useless in PvE as is

Quote

Can only be useful in PvP.Cannot block PvE unit spawning

With this out of the way, does anyone use that card?
I honestly can't imagine anyone does.

The Card

The cards basic function is to block enemy players from spawning more of the same unit
-> shadow affinity makes it permanent (which is nice for a change considering permanents are pretty rare), well until the unit dies
-> nature affinity is limited to 30s but does 50dmg per second

 

What's wrong with it?
The utmost problem here is that it is a T3 Fire spell with 120 energy cost.
Being T3 already limits its use in pvp, especially as spell, especially for what it does. Now the price is what kills it.
Just to put this into perspective, imagine you play against someone who you know really loves Ashbones, maybe it's even his only t3 unit. So you spent 120 energy to block his Ashbone from procreating. What an act of genius, he is devastated, humiliated even, until, he sacrifices his Ashbone to call another Ashbone...
Net loss to you 120energy
Net loss to him 100energy
Even if he couldn't sacrifice his unit, even if he could never call another Ashbone ever again, that would barely justify the price. Skylords is not a game were amassing a single unit is usually a great strategy. Ironically the more expensive a card is, the less likely your enemy can play out multiple anyway (essentially anything above t3 120 energy are XL units).
As a T3 spell you might as just make it free and it would still be pretty reasonable.

Now I focused on affinity to Shadow. The Nature affinity card is an interesting one, it is quite different by doing 1500 damage to a unit which overshadows its main effect. That's quite a lot for single target damage, but it is still far from great, as it's really slow and there are many cheap option to counter it (passive building heal reduces that ~650 damage (1000HP unit, above 1500HP it will out-heal the damage)

Solution?
The thing is, I really appreciate the general idea of that card, I think Skylords could use some meta (no the other meta) strategies.
Like aforementioned I don't play pvp yet and I suspect it can be applied in PvE, so the following are just some unfunded ideas (not necessarily meant to be used in conjunction)

• reduce orb requirement to T1 or T2
• reduce energy cost to ~60
• (Shadow affinity) permanent, affected unit can't be sacrificed, but the spell can only be applied to one type of unit at a time
• (Shadow affinity) unit can't be healed
• (Nature affinity) 30seconds, affected unit permanently looses 2% of their health (max 20) every 2.5 seconds

I think those suggestions match the idea pretty well the name 'dying breed' very well. One makes sure the creature can't 'reproduce' while the other marks it inevitable death.
The last one sounds maybe a bit overpowered at first, even viable for pve, but it would take 2minutes to kill a creature, even longer for anything above 2000 health and obviously wouldn't work on bosses. Another idea with a different standard ability

• T2
• as long as the affected creature is alive, every other unit of the same kind (same card) played do not recover from summoning sickness
• (Shadow affinity) permanent, affected unit looses 10 health every second if there is not another of the same kind 50m around it (max unit cost 100 energy)
• (Nature affinity) after 5 seconds, for 30 seconds, all other units of the same kind 50m around the affected will loose 40 health every two seconds

The concept here is that one punishes the player indirectly from summoning more of it. Shadow affinity card should be a minor poison like sapping spell, that is less useful if the enemy has already summoned more than one or might encourage him to summon a second ) the energy cost should prevent it to be used on creatures that rarely get played more than once. Nature affinity card does the opposite by punishing the player from having already played more than one. The damage can be avoided though by separating the affected unit temporarily. but both shadow affinity and nature affinity can be used in combination to create a bit of an predicament.
Damage and price is debatable, price should be somewhere around the same as the units its used against, so immediate sacrificing them is about even or slightly favorable to the spellcaster.

This might give the card some value as a counter to wind weaver spam for example

[Xamos]

On 10/10/2022 at 4:06 AM, Sacriefice said:

The thing is, I really appreciate the general idea of that card, I think Skylords could use some meta (no the other meta) strategies.
Like aforementioned I don't play pvp yet and I suspect it can be applied in PvE, so the following are just some unfunded ideas (not necessarily meant to be used in conjunction)

• reduce orb requirement to T1 or T2
• reduce energy cost to ~60
• (Shadow affinity) permanent, affected unit can't be sacrificed, but the spell can only be applied to one type of unit at a time
• (Shadow affinity) unit can't be healed
• (Nature affinity) 30seconds, affected unit permanently looses 2% of their health (max 20) every 2.5 seconds

This card bothered me basically since it existed, because I literally have not seen it being used. And why does a card exist if its not even played by anyone.

I like the fact that you already came up with solutions, which actually sound reasonable. Having access to this card at T2 could actually help Fire in PvP to prevent f.e. a lot of war eagles spawning, or a lot of burrowers. But you still can´t really ignore an enemie unit in PvP, can you? It will just destroy your wells. And if you still have to kill the unit, the effect is gone. 

Your ideas would have following upsides, that one Affinity would be better in PvP (purple) and prevent mass attacks of problematic units, while the other would be useable in PvE (green) and would be stroing vs big targets like harvester. But would that be enough to justify an incusion in your PvP deck? idk

 

I also have some ideas for the card: the way the effect looks, it suggests that if would affect not just one unit but all units in the area around the target. What if this card would introduce light CC for fire? Possible effects could be:

• the target and all units around it get slowed a lot (weighted down by the burden of being the 'dying breed')
• the target and all units around it can´t attack for 5 seconds (their attacks get 'locked' as the image suggests - e.g. like the effect of Cyrian)
• all units around the target flee from the affected unit and have to move out of the circle - freeing the way to focus the target and adding a light CC because all other units run away instead of attacking your units (idea also came from the image, as it looks like there are no allies around the target anymore) - I like this option the most but it sounds the hardest to implement into the game

 

Maybe one of these effects could be added alongside the standard-effect of the card that no units of the same card can be played for 30sec. And paired with the effect that the target takes a %dmg of his max health every 2 sec. 

 

[Sacriefice]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:02 AM, Xamos said:

• the target and all units around it get slowed a lot (weighted down by the burden of being the 'dying breed')
• the target and all units around it can´t attack for 5 seconds (their attacks get 'locked' as the image suggests - e.g. like the effect of Cyrian)
• all units around the target flee from the affected unit and have to move out of the circle - freeing the way to focus the target and adding a light CC because all other units run away instead of attacking your units (idea also came from the image, as it looks like there are no allies around the target anymore) - I like this option the most but it sounds the hardest to implement into the game

cc is hard to justify for fire. Especially the second point and 5 seconds sounds kind of weak.
Slow might work, question is if the price of the card makes it worth it. 
Last one is interesting. I wouldn't make it an actual cc but similar to one of my idea, force a situation where the enemy doesn't wants his units standing close (Aura of Pain, Transcendence).

When I wrote my original post I didn't realize that Transcendence and Aura of Pain would've a similar effect, but Transcendence is t4 and even at t3 is not that interesting to single out units anymore. I can imagine that it would be an intriguing tool in t1 or t2 for fire, with spells like Mine or Wildfire already working like an indirect cc.

[Xamos]

13 hours ago, Sacriefice said:

with spells like Mine or Wildfire already working like an indirect cc.

Good point, but what would you suggest then? The closer other enemies are to the affected unit, the more damage they take or something like that?

[Sacriefice]

On 2/2/2023 at 3:39 PM, Xamos said:

Good point, but what would you suggest then? The closer other enemies are to the affected unit, the more damage they take or something like that?

Something like this. My idea is kind of inspired by two Mtg cards a friend of mine used against me once (decades ago). The Rack and Black Vise.
One card makes you take damage if you have less than 3 cards on your hand, the other damages you if you have more than 4. So with both cards in play you can only safely have 3 or 4 cards in your hand. You are not enforced to have more or less cards, but you are discouraged to do so.
I think this creates an interesting dynamic because most effects don't let your enemy room to act upon it. There are a a few spells like disenchant that can counter cc or ravage which kind of counters something like envenom, but very few that create a predicament for the enemy.

Another thing that could be an inspiration is Loner, and ability from another game Impossible Creature. Creatures with Loners get a huge attack boost while they are not close to other friendly unit. If we invert that concept it could work on an enemy unit get a huge debuff while close to other friendly units or while alone.

[Xamos]

12 hours ago, Sacriefice said:

I think this creates an interesting dynamic because most effects don't let your enemy room to act upon it. There are a a few spells like disenchant that can counter cc or ravage which kind of counters something like envenom, but very few that create a predicament for the enemy.

Another thing that could be an inspiration is Loner, and ability from another game Impossible Creature. Creatures with Loners get a huge attack boost while they are not close to other friendly unit. If we invert that concept it could work on an enemy unit get a huge debuff while close to other friendly units or while alone.

Uh yeah that sounds good to me. Finally something that could make this utterly-useless card a thing! 

My idea of "the units flee from the affected target" would also be pretty nice and fitting, But probably hard/impossible to implement, because right now there is no such feature like "fear" where enemies have to run away right? Sounds like an inverted frenetic assault tho.

So with the compromise that nearby units just get damage (thats the way of fire) the opponent has to act - in PvE the AI cant act but that means that the card might have a use there too. 

The Loner ability also sounds interesting - maybe one affinity could buff your own unit "if alone" and the other affinity affect enemies? (But that sounds more like a spell from the new Amii-faction then, hmm)

 

I still wouldn´t exclude the possibility to add a minor cc to the card as well - frostBite (red) for example makes units attack slower - the red Affinity has to come from somewhere fire related right?

 

 

On 10/10/2022 at 4:06 AM, Sacriefice said:

(Shadow affinity) unit can't be healed

On 10/10/2022 at 4:06 AM, Sacriefice said:

• (Shadow affinity) permanent, affected unit looses 10 health every second if there is not another of the same kind 50m around it (max unit cost 100 energy)
• (Nature affinity) after 5 seconds, for 30 seconds, all other units of the same kind 50m around the affected will loose 40 health every two seconds

Your initial ideas also make sense. Anti-Heal, is that present at any other card right now? Could be interesting in PvP to counter Nature, and in PvE to counter those Bandit-Healers (not the boss tho cuz leader immunity).

But we have to be careful to not make it like "Aura of Pain" which simply damages all nearby units. Maybe the longer enemies stay in range, the more damage they get?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Xamos

[Xamos]

Dying breed sounds like a unit-class only has a few left. So if you brute-force that on a unit, it would mean to me that now this units-breed is a dying breed. Effect could then be: the more units of the same type are within an area of 30m, the more dmg every unit of that type will receive.

[Rankerz]

Since Patch 400048, this card behaves a lot differently than above written

Fire Season showed me the amount of mana/power you can cheat out in RPVE and wondering if this is intended or the card is overtuned a bit? 

Normally I end RPVE 6 (4p) with like 4-5 main XL units (Batariel, Moloch) and have like 200-300 power for spells to cast 

With using this card, I can build 2 SoW (300 bound power), skip power wells at T4 location, and still have like 7-8 main XL units with sometimes 1000(!) is free power to cast by the end of the run

As far as I remember, Striker had 'looter'  ability a couple of years ago, and it was nerfed/changed because generating power out of thin air is not an intended way to play this game

Yes, it was at T1 level and PvP oriented, but still. 

Currently feels like skipping Dying breed is like playing with half power or something

[Metagross31]

1 hour ago, Rankerz said:

Since Patch 400048, this card behaves a lot differently than above written

Fire Season showed me the amount of mana/power you can cheat out in RPVE and wondering if this is intended or the card is overtuned a bit? 

Normally I end RPVE 6 (4p) with like 4-5 main XL units (Batariel, Moloch) and have like 200-300 power for spells to cast 

With using this card, I can build 2 SoW (300 bound power), skip power wells at T4 location, and still have like 7-8 main XL units with sometimes 1000(!) is free power to cast by the end of the run

As far as I remember, Striker had 'looter'  ability a couple of years ago, and it was nerfed/changed because generating power out of thin air is not an intended way to play this game

Yes, it was at T1 level and PvP oriented, but still. 

Currently feels like skipping Dying breed is like playing with half power or something

How do you actually get the most out of Dying Breed? I've had teammates who told me the same thing, i.e. that you get insane amounts of free power, but when I played it, it never felt extraordinarily much. But recently I played mainly campaign and only very little rPvE, maybe that makes a difference.

[Cocofang]

You cast it on a weak, cheap unit and focus it. Move your army so that all of them are within the gold AoE when it triggers. Then focus down the most expensive enemies. Don't use spells because the unit has to get the killing blow. Batariel is especially well suited for that because enemies die from its aura.

[SunWu]

2 hours ago, Cocofang said:

[...] the unit has to get the killing blow.

Do i really get nothing if i take 90% of a unit's hp with a unit under dying breed influence and then kill it with eruption? If so, i think the card description is very misleading (made me think it would work like thugs or strikers when they had plunder/looter)

Edited July 21 by SunWu

[Cocofang]

Hm, did some tests in the Community Smithy to check but I don't think it works there at all. But you're right. It should give power as you deal damage, not just on killing blow.

[Rankerz]

On 7/21/2025 at 10:55 AM, Metagross31 said:

How do you actually get the most out of Dying Breed? I've had teammates who told me the same thing, i.e. that you get insane amounts of free power, but when I played it, it never felt extraordinarily much. But recently I played mainly campaign and only very little rPvE, maybe that makes a difference.

I do not even knew the math behind it, just spamming both affinities when entering a camp and thats it

Latest high score is 10(!) Batariels with 500+ power free + 2 SoW bound, without any mana cheat other than Dying Breed 

 

10 Batariels 500 free power.pmv

[Ziggeeh]

On 7/21/2025 at 7:42 PM, SunWu said:

Do i really get nothing if i take 90% of a unit's hp with a unit under dying breed influence and then kill it with eruption? If so, i think the card description is very misleading (made me think it would work like thugs or strikers when they had plunder/looter)

The unit with the looter buff active has to do the final killing blow for it to work. This works with either an auto attack or unit ability.

[Armatores]

I've checked it, it definitely works how intented, you get power per dmg dealt there is nothing to do with final blow.

[This Is Halloween_2]

On 7/22/2025 at 8:09 PM, Rankerz said:

I do not even knew the math behind it, just spamming both affinities when entering a camp and thats it

Latest high score is 10(!) Batariels with 500+ power free + 2 SoW bound, without any mana cheat other than Dying Breed 

 

10 Batariels 500 free power.pmv 80.55 kB · 2 downloads

It's really good, but remember, other factions also have similar tool.

Pure nature use of PoL + forest elder allows you to create a big army of XL units.
Shadow can spam unit if you started putting boosters at T2 near your wells, I can often spam ~10 shadow worm with it.
Granted dying breed is better than resource booster, and on par with PoL+ forest elder in term of power gain, so it's likely at the top of the power curve.

[Rankerz]

9 hours ago, This Is Halloween_2 said:

It's really good, but remember, other factions also have similar tool.

Pure nature use of PoL + forest elder allows you to create a big army of XL units.
Shadow can spam unit if you started putting boosters at T2 near your wells, I can often spam ~10 shadow worm with it.
Granted dying breed is better than resource booster, and on par with PoL+ forest elder in term of power gain, so it's likely at the top of the power curve.

I played around 250 rounds of RPVE6 this season, and seen none of what you mention live

Bear in mind, the 10 Batariels at the end is only the final 'sounds insane' result, the tempo is also unbeatable

You can often get from 1 Batariel to 3 in just the first small camps (while also bounding 300 power in SoW!)

Teammates often say they cannot keep up with me

Not to mention it encourages solo clears, since teammates trying to help you with spells or damage actively hurting your Dying Breed income

The devs probably have the data which deck generates what amount of power, but I can confidently say at least 50% more and faster power available with a singular card 

Outliners always nerfed or getting the playerbase frustrated because it has to be auto included 

If you take a look at the seasonal leaderboard, the current 1P RPVE fire season clear is faster by a mile than 2p or 4p, tells a story for me

[This Is Halloween_2]

Well, for shadow I play shadow worm, infernal chain P for void return, and rifle cultist + offering for spam.
Resource booster is of course played throughout T2-T3.

It does allow to start pushing with 2 worm and regularly summon another on every ~30-40s. not as explosive & good as dying breed, but it's still something.
Same for stonekin, I play breeding ground + tectonic shift to bring it with me, and it allows to summon a good army throughout my push.

Now none of those come close to dying breed, but PoL + forest elder can compete.
You do need your ally to let your forest elder die at 1st camp (that's where the true difficulty is in my experience), sometimes you can even do it with 2 forest elder.
 

Last game I played, my fire ally let me do that on 2 elders, and after I got enough power for 4 primeval watcher in addition to my 2 unbound elder, so a pretty explosive start too.

Edited July 26 by This Is Halloween_2

[RadicalX]

The replay Rankerz shared here is a very good showcase of why a mechanic like Dying Breed is necessary in a deck like pure Fire when played beyond casual environments. After playing a round without major errors, there is only power left for a single Batariel + ~140 power at 9 minutes, despite skipping T4 wells. With Fire depending on unity for durability, you are locked from solo clearing difficult camps until 2 Batariels + 100-150 spell power, leading to a ~90 second time window where the Fire player can't contribute beyond assisting with sphere or cluster explosion. Meta decks heavily outpace here, while providing their own power generators i.e. Ressource Booster, Breeding Grounds or Second Chance. Dying Breed helps to bridge that gap and allows for multi-unit compositions while retaining the ability to cast spells for more interactive gameplay. 

The general reason for choosing Looter instead of a more power well focussed mechanic is its synergy with dps heavy units, while reintroducing a previously existing mechanic does not create overly high demands on the implementation side. Beyond its obvious usage on T4 the card is also supposed to support a melee oriented playstyle on T3 by synergizing with cards like Giant Slayer or Juggernaut, which can quickly generate power due to good damage per power ratios and the Rage and Stampede abilities. Yes, it does break a game principle, but the pros of the reinforced gameplay loops heavily outweight the cons here in my opinion. 

Now in terms of balancing there is one aspect, which causes these extremely high numbers and is going to be addressed in the future:  Dying Breed affinity effects were not supposed to stack, but they do. This will be removed after the Fire Season so you can expect more reasonable power growth compared to other power accelaration mechanics. To ensure a fair competition for the leaderboard missions of the current season, where Dying Breed stacking was an essential part of the 1p rPvE strategy, this fix will be delayed as long as the Fire season is active. 

[Metagross31]

I just played an rpve match with Pure Fire and can confirm, that Dying Breed is better than I first assumed. This time I looked more closely at the numbers and there is substantiel power gain beyond SoW from Dying Breed in the first few camps at T4. With careful usage I was able to pop a 2nd and 3rd Batariel after the 1st and 2nd camp, making the start at T4 much more smooth. I only brought 1 affinity though, so can't tell anything about the stacking.