[Deepfang and Gemeye tier swap]

Important Note: After further reflection and testing, I realized my original suggestion needed significant changes. As a result, many of its points and much of the reasoning process have been revised. Here’s a brief list of changes for those who read the old version of this post:

• The approach to evaluating and analyzing cards has been shifted to a more global perspective, not limited to card class or tier.
• Clearer analogies for new mechanics using existing cards.
• Additional changes to the Gemeye card aimed at improving its concept and PvP balance.
   

Stonekin state analysis

After spending a considerable amount of time using both meta and off-meta decks in various PvE scenarios (cPvE and rPvE), I decided to try out Stonekin decks. These included more meta-oriented decks (Grinder + Bedrock) as well as more fun-focused ones (Deepfang [R] + Gemeye). And, to be honest, I was somewhat disappointed.

I spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong, as the stats and mechanics of the Stonekin don’t look bad on paper (especially after the recent buff to Deepfang). After much thought, I came to the conclusion that they lack "spark." More precisely, their "spark" doesn’t shine brightly enough. Other meta and off-meta decks usually give players one (or a combination) of the following feelings:

• I completely annihilate enemies using powerful AoE abilities or spells.
• I feel like I’m cheating by constantly teleporting my army, mind-controlling enemies, or making them fight each other.
• I obliterate powerful bosses in seconds, while other strategies would take much longer.
• I’m using a very powerful T4 card with unique features (Batariel, Forest Elder, Dreadnought...).
• I provide significant support to other players (Wheel of Gifts).
• The strategy I’m using is unique enough to surprise other players (Comet Catcher, Fire Worm spam, Altar of Chaos...).

Against this backdrop, Stonekin decks don’t feel flashy or impactful enough overall, despite having a few interesting concepts. Below, I’ll break down their options by tier and provide my suggestions for improvements.

So, like any self-respecting mixed faction, the Stonekin begin their journey in T2. At this stage, they have access to many interesting options: Aggressor, Razorshard, Crystal Fiend, and Matter Mastery. With these, players can definitely experience some of the feelings listed above - watching the Aggressor toss around enemies of L size, Razorshard and Crystal Fiend providing support to the army, and Matter Mastery turning the tide in tough battles. In my opinion, T2 Stonekin are in a good place and don’t need any big changes.

Now, let’s move on to T3. Here, we have unit options like Rageflame spam, Stone Warrior + Rageflame, and Deepfang. The first two options are quite good. They might seem less unique compared to T2 options, but they’re still unique enough in my opinion. Deepfang... Don’t get me wrong, it’s very strong. I was even quite impressed when I tried it out after the buff. At first glance, it seems unique enough, but it’s not that simple. Uniqueness isn’t enough on its own. Good uniqueness shouldn’t feel clunky or overly complicated to use. And that’s exactly the problem with Deepfang. If an average player tries to manage an army of multiple Deepfangs (or including Deepfangs), they’ll quickly notice a number of issues:

• When you have a lot of Stonekin Critters, it becomes quite difficult to select a specific one to use its ability. This is especially true if one of your Deepfangs suddenly loses health and you’re under pressure from its potential death. You risk losing all your Stonekin Critters with a single button press or failing to sacrifice one in time. This adds unnecessary stress to the player.
• The mechanic of summoning additional Stonekin Critters when destroying buildings, intended to solve the limited number of Critters, creates its own problems. Newly summoned Critters aren’t added to the control group or the currently selected unit group. As a result, most of them end up scattered randomly across the map, which, as you might guess, doesn’t help you achieve your goals.
• The damage buff ability of Deepfang [R] loses most of its effectiveness when you try to buff anyone other than Deepfang itself. This makes it difficult to comfortably use Deepfang as support for other unit compositions. Melee units move out of the buff zone, and Deepfang’s speed doesn’t allow for strategic placement of the buff. Additionally, if you need to move a long distance, Deepfang will fall significantly behind the main army.

In summary, Deepfang is strong in terms of "stats for cost", but it’s clunky and unreliable in the vast majority of situations. I propose giving it a more significant rework to make the card more interesting without overcomplicating its use, and to better ignite the spark of the Stonekin in the late game (more details after completing the analysis of T4 options).

So, onto T4 territory. Grinders grind, Bedrocks add a bit of APM, and Gemeye tries to be strategically effective. But globally, nothing flashy or interesting happens. At this stage, when players expect the most power and impact from their deck, the spark of the Stonekin burns the weakest (compared to most other decks).

But the situation can be saved. And here’s what I propose.

 

Core Idea

Deepfang moves to T4 with a rework of its mechanics, while Gemeye takes its place in T3. But why these cards? Why this approach? Here’s why:

• Aside from the aforementioned issues with Deepfang’s concept in T3, I see huge design potential in it that could allow it to become that "cool and interesting" late-game option for the Stonekin.
• As for Gemeye... Its uniqueness in attack range and affinity abilities feels a bit underwhelming compared to T4 tools and other decks. You already have a strong army with a mix of melee and ranged units. You have frost damage spells and nature support spells. Gemeye can be nice in some situations, but you don’t really need him here. In T3, its potential is much, much greater.

Moreover, both units, after the changes, will inherit and expand on the existing Stonekin mechanic of "scaling in the presence of other units," which is present in one form or another in cards like Grinder and Stone Shell. So, lets go?

 

New Deepfang (T4)
 

 

Ability Changes

Icefire
Unit releases a fiery stream that deals 270 (was 165) damage to enemies every second

New abilities

 [R] (Red Affinity)

Gravitational Eruption (40 power cost)
The unit dives underground and erupts from it in a new spot within a 50m range. During the eruption, a zone of high gravity is created that affects enemies for 5 seconds in 30m radius. Flying units will be pulled to the ground, ground units will be slowed, and buildings will be frozen. Additionally, Deepfang begins to spew deep flames, dealing 120 damage per second for 3 seconds to every enemy unit or structure Inside the high gravity zone. Reusable every 25 seconds.

Infused Deepstone union (passive)
I have 2 ideas for this ability:

1. The unit is imbued with the power of the stonekin, dealing 3% more damage for each stonekin card in your deck. (This encourages the use of stonekin cards over nature and frost cards.)
2. The unit is imbued with the power of the stonekin, dealing 7% more damage for each unique allied stonekin unit of the same size within 35m. (This encourages the use of other XL stonekin units. Whether units with different affinities should be considered unique is up for debate. On the one hand, it adds unnecessary complexity to deck building, on the other hand, using a diverse army of large units can be fun.)

 [G] (Green Affinity)

Gifted Gravitational Eruption (40 power cost)
The unit dives underground and erupts from it in a new spot within a 50m range. During the eruption, a zone of high gravity is created that affects enemies for 5 seconds in 30m radius. Flying units will be pulled to the ground, ground units will be slowed, and buildings will be frozen. Additionally, Deepfang begins to spew deep flames, dealing 120 damage per second for 3 seconds to every enemy unit or structure Inside the high gravity zone. Enemies hit by deep flames three times will be paralyzed for 8 seconds. Reusable every 25 seconds.

P.s. If stonekin now have too many paralysis mechanics, we can change the green affinity to blue and replace paralysis with freeze.
 

Comment

Players will be able to use 1-2 copies of [G] Deepfang to support their late-game armies (not just stonekin), or several copies of [R] Deepfang with some support to absolutely blast rPvE camps. Strong, fun, reliable.

 

New Gemeye (T3)
 

 

Ability Changes

Damage changes to match new dp20 of the card +

 [G] (Green Affinity)

Gifted Spit
…Up to 3 (was 5) hostile units that are still in the area at the end of the duration will be paralyzed…

 [P] (Purple Affinity)

Tainted Spit
…the affected area around the target will be contaminated with a piercing substance for 5 seconds dealing 38 (was 50) damage every second… Power wells and Monuments take only half damage from this unit.

New abilities

Deepstone Infusion (passive)
Unit deals 6% more damage and gains 10% more maximum health for each allied stonekin unit of the same size within a 30m radius, up to 30% more damage and 50% more health.
 

Comment

In this form, Gemeye will offer more uniqueness and utility for Stonekin in T3. Its purple affinity opens up the possibility of long-range sieges with piercing damage (additionally ignoring the damage reduction of freeze), while its green affinity can combo with the recently reworked Stone Warrior [G]. The new passive ability is designed to support late-game Gemeye compositions for players who enjoy this playstyle. Now, let’s discuss some of the more controversial points that arise with this change:

• If such a high attack range in T3 seems too overpowered, it’s worth remembering Spitfire (a pure fire T3 card), which, in addition to its range, can also fly.
• At first glance, potential competition with Hammerfall in terms of design might seem like a strong argument against moving Gemeye to T3. However, we already have a somewhat similar situation in T2. Both Aggressor and Razorshard can knock back enemies of their size, while still having their own unique features. Similarly, Gemeye and Hammerfall would both have long-range capabilities in T3, while differing significantly in everything else. If more examples of similar card pairs are needed, consider Skyfire Drake and Windhunter. Both can be played in a bandit deck, have the same cost, similar appearances, and comparable stats.
• Stat scaling and piercing damage in T3. I agree that this might seem overpowered at first, but I don’t see how it could be more overpowered than most other strong T3 cards (Razorleaf scales better, Enlightenment provides orb cheating, shadow T3 spells can wipe out groups of strong enemies, Spitfire can cheese cPvE missions, etc.). This version of Gemeye won’t harm the game. And even if it does somehow, additional adjustments to its stats, cost, or abilities can always be made.

 

Conclusion

These changes are just one of several potential ways to breathe life and freshness into T3 and T4 Stonekin, increasing their appeal to players and their competitiveness with a wider variety of decks. So, what do you think about this?

(Translated using СhatGPT)

 

[Deepfang and Gemeye tier swap]

Regarding Gemeye, I think it makes more sense to consider his dp20 as 4250, not 5250. It's not always easy to keep many enemies in poison for the entire duration of the poison. "bypass any protection" part is quite niche and it is rare that you will be able to get good value from it. While you think I underestimate him, I think you overestimate him. And I think the percentage of Gemeye's usage is more on my side. 

Regarding the Nightshade Plant as an example of good changes... I don't think that's a good argument. I didn't see him much more often than the Deepfang. About 3 games out of 200+. I think he needs another 500 hp and a buff to the twilight transformations (as a whole) to be a good option.

Now about my version of Gemeye. You need to invest quite a lot of power to scale his defense that high. It's more of an option for people like "Devs changed the only good card I enjoyed playing and now I'm uninstalling the game." For the same reason, I didn't touch the attack number, but yes, perhaps the poison damage could be reduced. And along with this, we can raise his power cost to 300. But we really can't touch his other stats and abilities. Otherwise, many players will be unhappy and/or he will also lose the competition. 
I agree that this concept of attack and hp distribution is not very suitable for a stonekin unit. But there's nothing we can do about it, in my opinion. I could change his new ability to +300 hp instead of +6% defense to make it look better (f it's technically possible to implement it in the game), but nothing more than that.

Regarding "wrong cards for comparison". So if you want a fast army, Deepfang is bad. If you plan on defending or slow pushing, Razorleaf can do the same thing, but better. If you have enough power to summon two Deepfangs, then Enlightenment + t4 unit will be better economically (If you don't plan on keeping Deepfang in your t4 army, which doesn't seem so bad). Of course there are situations when you have about 250 power and you have to act now, but they are quite rare. Even in the case where you need to push from T3 to T4 in rPvE, Deepfang is not very good because of how its damage is split between targets. You can right click a spawning building and start dealing 0 damage to it in half of the games.
So generally, you can use other cards that cost the same amount of orbs and get a better result. I guess that's what competition is. No?

And now I think that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to force myself to play a stonekin deck with Deepfang and I will take every opportunity to test him out. And after that I will find 3 slots in the deck to put a Razorleaf with the root system. And I'll be completely honest about the outcome of this test. And god forbid if it turns out Razorleaf is better than Deepfang in a stonekin deck...
But this test will not take less than a week I think. In the meantime we can continue our discussion =D

Edit: I was wrong. I have revised my views on some individual things and the situation as a whole.

[Deepfang and Gemeye tier swap]

I think there's a misunderstanding here, but I can't figure out where exactly. Either you didn't quite get my message, or I expressed/translated it poorly, or I didn't understand your message well. So:

A. How popular do you think Deepfang is among all possible cPvE and rPvE scenarios in situations where the player has 1 green and 2 blue orbs or 2 green and 1 blue orb?
We need to collect some more objective data (Ideally, the usage percentage is from developers), since each of us can be biased. In last 200-250 of my games, I've only seen it once (funny enough, it was before the buff). However, I see Razorleaf, Thorbarks, Enlightenment, and, as you rightly noted, Stone warrior + Rageflame regularly. And there must be reasons for this, given that deepfang is mathematically good. The problem could be one of the following (or a combination of them): failure to compete with alternatives, difficulty in use, bad reputation, insufficient or irrelevant sample size for the analysis. 
In my personal experience, your story with Deepfang seems more like an exception than a rule (I can easily be wrong).

B. What damage buff did I give Gemeye?
I took away his HP and gave him stacking damage resist so that in the late game he would be more like his old version (about 4700 effective hp vs 5300 on current one). If the wording on this ability is bad for understanding, then I will ask you to provide a better one (I am bad at English, I do everything with a translator).

C. I did not overlooked Gemeye's range or affinity difference. On the contrary, I believe that this is the only way he can compete with the alternatives. However, the poison damage can be a problem in PvP. Therefore, I think that the poison should not deal damage to wells and orbs (partly like the White Rangers.).

D. Regarding the difference in stats for stonekin units.
Current Deepfang (red) has 3300 base dp20 (4950 with L counter), 5940 with ability (8910 with L counter). Then the damage range is 3300-8910. Effective health is about 4100. In this case, the dp20/hp coefficient range is 0.8 - 2.55.
New Gemeye (purple) has 3250 base dp20 + 50*20 or 150*20 (depending on the number of enemies hit with poison) = 4250 to 6250 (4250-6250 damage range). Effective health is about 2750. With new damage resist fully stacked 4700. Now let's make a range of coefficients. 6250/2750 to 4250/4700 = 2.27 to 0.9 (0.9 - 2.27).
So we have 0.8 - 2.55 vs 0.9 - 2.27. I really don't see how the first option is "Very good" and the second is "Absolutely unacceptable".

F. Regarding passive damage buff based on numbers of units/deck slot. At this point, it's no one's identity. But considering that the nearly all stonekin are made of the same stuff and use the same energy, I don't see why this mechanic wouldn't work for them (unless something like that is planned for the twilight).

[Deepfang and Gemeye tier swap]

IMPORTANT:
This version of the post is no longer relevant. See the new one:
New version link

I understand that the argument "this change is too complex to add to the game" is enough to dismiss the idea on its own, but I still want to present this concept for fun and discussion with the community. let's get started.

First of all, I want to point out the points why these cards are not very good in the positions they are in, in my opinion.

Deepfang:
1. He is involved in a competition that is almost impossible to win. Razorleaf, Thorbark spam, Enlightenment... Not only can they be played with the same set of orbs as him, but they also outperform him in many situations.
2. The Critter mechanic may be liked by some, but for others it is unpleasant due to the need for excessive microcontrol. Using M units alongside XL ones in dangerous battles adds unnecessary stress because it makes enemy snipers and AoEs much more dangerous.

Gemeye:
He is loved by many, but his stats are not distributed in the best way for a T4 card compared to other "PvE monsters".

Now about what I propose and how it will change the situation.

New Gemeye (t3)

 

I kept his offensive capabilities, but nerfed his defensive ones a lot. Along with that, I gave him a new ability that will keep his late-game spam potential for those who liked it.

- Deepstone Infusion
Gemeye takes an additional 6% less damage, up to 42%, for each allied stonekin unit of the same size within 35m.

This version of the unit can compete with T3 nature cards, providing alternative (without the root system) pushing potential and utility, while still being usable in late-game compositions where it was used before.

However, now the question arises about Gemeye's new PvP potential. I'm not a experienced PvP player, but I can easily imagine how a long-range XL unit combined with numerous CC and support spells could become a problem, despite HP nerf and high power cost. Therefore, I think that the poison should not deal damage to wells and orbs (partly like the White Rangers.). I'm really looking forward to hearing what experienced PvP players have to say about this. Does it need more changes? What exactly should be changed?

New Deepfang (t4)

 

(Red Affinity)

Gravitational Eruption [40 power cost]
The unit dives underground and erupts from it in a new spot within a 50m range. During the eruption, a zone of increased gravity is created that affects enemies for 4 seconds in 35m radius. Flying units will be pulled to the ground, ground units will be slowed, and buildings will be frozen. Additionally, Deepfang begins to spew deep flames, dealing 150 damage per second to enemies within a 35m radius for 3 seconds. Reusable every 20 seconds.

Infused Deepstone union
I have 2 ideas for this ability:

1. The unit is imbued with the power of the stonekin, dealing 3% more damage for each stonekin card in your deck. (This encourages the use of stonekin cards over good nature and frost cards.)

2. The unit is imbued with the power of the stonekin, dealing 7% more damage for each unique allied stonekin unit of the same size within 35m. (This encourages the use of other XL stonekin units. Whether units with different affinities should be considered unique is up for debate. On the one hand, it adds unnecessary complexity to deck building, on the other hand, using a diverse army of large units can be fun.)

(Green Affinity)

Gifted Gravitational Eruption [40 power cost]
The unit dives underground and erupts from it in a new spot within a 50m range. During the eruption, a zone of increased gravity is created that affects enemies for 4 seconds in 35m radius. Flying units will be pulled to the ground, ground units will be slowed, and buildings will be frozen. Additionally, Deepfang begins to spew deep flames, dealing 150 damage per second to enemies within a 35m radius for 3 seconds. Enemies hit by deep flames three times will be paralyzed for 8 seconds. Reusable every 20 seconds.


Players will be able to use 1-2 copies of [Green] Deepfang to support their late-game armies (not just stonekin), or 4-5 copies of [Red] Deepfang with some support to absolutely blast rPvE camps.

So what do you think?

P.s. Translated into English using chatGPT and Google translator.

[Small units with spears attacking XL units from the walls.]

On 1/18/2025 at 8:37 PM, Cocofang said:

It's really cool thematically. But under which circumstances would you prefer it over ranged units that can attack everything?

Thank you. The first time I got this idea was when I had several spear units already summoned before I knew I had to defend the wall. As I said above, this change is more casual/newbie oriented (and not worth it if it's a lot of work). 

[Small units with spears attacking XL units from the walls.]

16 hours ago, Fimion said:

You got some good points but i still believe this would be a bad idea because it would probably take alot of time to implement such a mechanic and im sure nobody would make use of it then because even with Glaciation this wouldnt be a viable choice.

I understand what you are saying and I agree that it is not worth it if it is technically difficult to implement. But if it can be done "at the push of a button", then devs can try it in test conditions and see how it looks and feels in practice. After that they can make a decision or make some adjustments.

The main idea is not that this is a major balance change and everyone should use it. It's more about individual small situations for "non-professional" players. Like small details in games in general. I originally got this idea because I tried to put spearmen on a wall against a big unit, expecting them to be able to do something. But they couldn't. And at that moment it seemed unnatural and illogical that they couldn't attack from the wall. I was disappointed (it was a long time ago). So I think it would be fun even if it happened 0.01% of the time. But of course, if it looks bad or is hard to implement, it's not worth it. I agree that everything is not as simple as it seemed to me initially.

[Small units with spears attacking XL units from the walls.]

Continuing this topic... If we take into account that small units are able to individually calculate the range, and if we can save this property for units on the wall, then we can get rid of the attack range situations, which will look stupid even in the context of the game. So, not all units of the squad will be able to attack the target.

Perhaps the developers will be able to change the attack range and choose what works better (If that's even possible at all.).

[Small units with spears attacking XL units from the walls.]

1 hour ago, Fimion said:

If units with spears could attack XL units it wouldnt look more natural and dynamic at all they would just stab air while the XL units take damage.

I agree that I didn't take that into account. Yes, he does stand further when he attacks.

But you don't take into account that I meant "naturally and dynamically" in the context of the game. Have you seen how small melee units attack big ones without a wall? Even spearmen still miss the target most of the time. But it's close when a big unit performs a certain animation. (if the target is under the control effect, then spearmen attack the air 100% of the time). It's just how the game works in general.

Regarding the big axe.... Have you tried rooting Grinder and attacking him with spearmen? He can't even fight back. After that, attacking from the wall will be even more consistent as a mechanic, considering that we already have a similar interaction, in which spearmen demonstrate a longer attack range. (Changing the attack range of some big units is a separate and more complex topic).

So I think this idea will look fine in the context of the game.

[Small units with spears attacking XL units from the walls.]

Hello! I randomly came up with an idea that most likely someone has already suggested, but I couldn't find a post about it. That's why I decided to describe it here.
The idea is to allow small units with spears to attack XL units from the wall (if it's technically possible) .

Pros:
1. It will look natural and dynamic.
2. Putting melee units on walls has almost no use at the moment, but with this change it will start to make sense in rare situations.
3. It will increase the use of small units with spears in PvE (among newbies and players with small collections).
4. It is applicable in the early stages of the campaign (almost every map of the Lyrish Reaches.). So players will be introduced to this mechanic early on. Additionally you could add a hint about this mechanic for one of this maps. 
5. It will globally improve the depth of game mechanics.

For example in this picture, if the Grinder were an enemy and this change were implemented, then Imperials and Ghostspears could attack it.

What do you think?

[Hotkey changes are not saved when restarting the game.]

I have disabled all OneDrive features. I just didn't delete it completely. As far as I can tell, it doesn't do anything.

Everything worked fine until I reinstalled the game.

[Hotkey changes are not saved when restarting the game.]

Could the problem be that the game resources and the config directory are on different physical hard drives?

Edit:
The logs say that the file keyBindings.xml cannot be found.

[Hotkey changes are not saved when restarting the game.]

Yes it is

Even the cmd doesn't show the read-only attribute

If I add a read-only attribute, I will see an "R" symbol.

[Hotkey changes are not saved when restarting the game.]

3 hours ago, Kubik said:

Hotkeys are by default stored in `"Documents\BattleForge\keyBindings.xml"` check if that file is not read only or not replaced by older version by OneDrive or similar software. If still no idea, then please send logs, after you change some hotkey.

There is no such file at all. Should I create it?

[Hotkey changes are not saved when restarting the game.]

Greetings. I couldn't find a similar topic using the search function, so I'm creating a new topic. Sorry if I searched poorly...

I recently reinstalled the game on a new hard drive. All my settings returned to default (as expected). I made changes to the settings and restarted the game. All settings are saved, except for hotkeys. I tried running the game as an administrator, disabling the read-only function, restarting the PC. None of this helped. What can I do?

[Big and easy PvP update suggestion]

16 hours ago, Appollonir said:

I like the idea! You can even rename these cards, for example "Shadow of the Colossus", make their models darker and allow them to be used along with the originals in the same deck. (For those who need it)

 

2 hours ago, Kubik said:

I meant it like this, if there will be a corection to the description, the ability will change, or something it needs to be updated for all 4 cards (U0-U3), or 8 in case of affinities. With addition like this it would be even more complicated, because after balancing these cards, they could end up with slightly different description.

One more point I forget to mention before, what about community maps, that make it relatively easy to reach T4? With change like this there would be many squads with exactly same look, but significantly different stats.

 

You can use my suggestion if it is possible to simply apply a color filter to the texture of the unit. If this is not easy to do, then I agree with the author, making a large number of games more fun at the cost of making a small percentage of games less fun seems like a good solution. Especially if the percentage difference is huge. 

Of the card ideas, I especially like Colossus. It is very unlikely that 2 different versions of it will be played in the same game. And only the stats need to be changed; the abilities, it seems to me, are good. Nature pvp decks have always lacked a unit like this in the late game.

[Big and easy PvP update suggestion]

I like the idea! You can even rename these cards, for example "Shadow of the Colossus", make their models darker and allow them to be used along with the originals in the same deck. (For those who need it)

[Achievement bug - Blight Expert]

I completed this map again a few days later and it worked fine. All achievements have been completed. Just a weird temporary bug 😕
 

[Achievement bug - Blight Expert]

At the moment this map is the only one I need.

[Achievement bug - Blight Expert]

I tried to complete the map "Blight" on the expert difficulty level as part of a group. All my monuments were destroyed, so I lost. But the rest of the players were able to complete the mission without me. After that, I successfully completed this map several times, but it does not count for any of the achievements. What should I do?