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Remove the BG10 achievement please


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  • Volin changed the title to Remove the BG10 achievement please
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We are dealing with this. Expect changes soonish. 

I'll be frank, maybe you guys need to select your team members properly instead of complaining to lose with strangers in the hardest content the game has to offer. Random rPvE 10 is the highest d

As the title says. It just gets more and more nuts. No changes, just delete it. Please ūüôŹ

I agree with Volin that the rPvE 10 achievement should be removed because it is extremely undesirable to play random rPvE 10 anymore. It is nigh on impossible nowadays to create a random 10s lobby without having a silver rank or gold rank that needs to be hard carried. Even with the pve rank 10 lock on the 10s achievement we are getting people joining 10s unprepared or overconfident in their decks and abilities due to some easy motms and ultimately letting an entire team down. We're rude if we kick them and if we say that a stonekin deck with mana wings and shamans is not equipped for rPvE 10 we get arguments that it is a viable strat even against LS. I've been labeled non-team player when I refuse to mine and erupt for players who can't clear and easy bandit T2. A few players I know have actually resorted to gatekeeping lobbies or just play in premade groups. I know Volin would bend over backwards to help anyone get started with rPvE 10 if they are competent in 9s and have an appropriate deck for 10s

 

Edited by Little_Ducky
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I know its a little of topic but i always wanted a difficulty level between 9 and 10. 

rPvE 9 is usually way too easy and boring especially bandit maps the only challenging enemies in rPvE 9 are Lost Souls and Fire after T4 but getting to T4 is very easy on fire maps and i really dislike that. Twilight can be challenging sometimes but usually its very easy.

In my opinion there should be a difficulty level between 9 and 10 where all enemy factions are slightly harder than lvl 9 Lost Souls. So you can have challenging matches which require teamplay but can still be won with random players. Another option would be to make map of the month always Lost Souls or Fire.

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I'll be frank, maybe you guys need to select your team members properly instead of complaining to lose with strangers in the hardest content the game has to offer.

Random rPvE 10 is the highest difficulty content. Preparations have to be done, be it on a personal level or a party leader level. The same applies for expert maps like Ascension or Titans. As a party leader, you can lay out the goals of the attempt. If you cannot afford to lose, make sure your team is up for the task.

Yes the gap between 9 and 10 is big, SR tries to close this gap, but the players also have to act according to the content.

 

Edit: I'm just saying, if you trust random, expect random results.

As a party leader you have always the option to kick players you don't trust. And if you're the one joining a random group, you have to account for you having other expections than the rest . 

Edited by Mynoduesp
Metagross31, Akilyon, Fundus and 1 other like this
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Said a few days ago on Discord: Seen more then one ember rank (what is that, 17?) that had not much clue about deckbuilding and spawn mechanichs while also played a few weeks ago with a sliver rank with perfect nomad micro, spawn trapping and other signs of deep understanding of game mechanics.

My father always says: Not all older people are wise, some just get old.

I had not much hope when creating this thread, even more as the lead designer had this topic on the table before this, and rejected.

But the shoulder I cried out today told me to open up a discussion here

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By at least rank 10, you get players with a certain level of experience.

There are always exceptions, but the rank reflects how much time you played.

Now, the achievement requires preparation, how much are you willing to invest on instructing, every time a random player joins?

Some maps require certain combination of cards, like Bad Harvest pos 3.

Edited by UltDragon
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27 minutes ago, UltDragon said:

By at least rank 10, you get players with a certain level of experience.

There are always exceptions, but the rank reflects how much time you played.

Now, the achievement requires preparation, how much are you willing to invest on instructing, every time a random player joins?

Some maps require certain combination of cards, like Bad Harvest pos 3.

Yeah sure, I get your point. Still you get mine also I guess. Btw don't get me wrong here, I'm a perfect example for overestimated ranks. I have rank19 and cry when I get most expert maps as quests ^^

My request if this should be tied to rank would be: Make it not visible before 15-17 then. Gold ranks are gotten pretty fast by just hanging around in the game.

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Ill speak from my expirience - im lvl 13 (green rank 1 dot) at PvE (im more like pvp player) - so my green pve rank is 99% from doing Rpves lvl 9 (my campaign is like 40% done only on easy , cause i dont like campaign at all) - so at this case im something like master at lvl 9 , i can solo each map 4p with every deck i build even noobish/starter deck - so , even like that i never ever played lvl 10 since orignal BF back in the days - what does this mean - i dont wanna ruin other peoples games with lacking of skill on something im not familiar with , no matter how much exp. i have in rpve at all - i hope more guys understand this...

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3 hours ago, UltDragon said:

By at least rank 10, you get players with a certain level of experience.

There are always exceptions, but the rank reflects how much time you played.

Now, the achievement requires preparation, how much are you willing to invest on instructing, every time a random player joins?

Some maps require certain combination of cards, like Bad Harvest pos 3.

I was the one who suggested pve rank 10 minimum to Windhunter but now having played with many ember and platinum ranks who are ill equipped, rank is not a good deteminant. 

2 hours ago, 4esan4o95 said:

Ill speak from my expirience - im lvl 13 (green rank 1 dot) at PvE (im more like pvp player) - so my green pve rank is 99% from doing Rpves lvl 9 (my campaign is like 40% done only on easy , cause i dont like campaign at all) - so at this case im something like master at lvl 9 , i can solo each map 4p with every deck i build even noobish/starter deck - so , even like that i never ever played lvl 10 since orignal BF back in the days - what does this mean - i dont wanna ruin other peoples games with lacking of skill on something im not familiar with , no matter how much exp. i have in rpve at all - i hope more guys understand this...

I wish everyone had the same attitude towards 10s instead of diving in blindly and praying for the best. If u ever want to learn 10s contact me ingame, I can show u the basics

3 hours ago, Mynoduesp said:

I'll be frank, maybe you guys need to select your team members properly instead of complaining to lose with strangers in the hardest content the game has to offer.

Random rPvE 10 is the highest difficulty content. Preparations have to be done, be it on a personal level or a party leader level. The same applies for expert maps like Ascension or Titans. As a party leader, you can lay out the goals of the attempt. If you cannot afford to lose, make sure your team is up for the task.

Yes the gap between 9 and 10 is big, SR tries to close this gap, but the players also have to act according to the content.

 

Edit: I'm just saying, if you trust random, expect random results.

As a party leader you have always the option to kick players you don't trust. And if you're the one joining a random group, you have to account for you having other expections than the rest . 

This is considered gatekeeping and promotes elitism,  both of which I do not want. Volin and I are not talking about winning or losing, I was just saying to Volin a few days ago saying how funny it was that i used to have  a 25% win rate with 3 other guys all playing meta decks aka bloodhorn or bata. We learnt from our mistakes and relished in the occasional victory, we never once had any regrets losing because we gave it our all. Players now, particularly the ill prepared ones who join for the boosters almost pre-emptively expect a win and will quit the moment they see anything harder than an easy bandit. Yes we now have quantity but super low quality sorry if this sounds harsh. Volin and I used to run rPvE workshops for beginners, they almost never filled because people "knew everything" when in reality that is far from the truth

Edited by Little_Ducky
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I wonder about making a flag for this which could be set by the group leader, so that in order for the run to count towards achievements the flag must be set. Ideally this flag would also provide a signal for groups that are aiming for a specific achievement in such a way that it could lead to a mechanism that you can make finding groups aiming for a specific achievement easier via the campaign map, or achievements screen.  Anyhow just trying to spitball ideas that make everything better for everyone.

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Wouldn¬īt it be easier to set the constraint of 4p rPvE 10 to:¬†

  • Before you can play 4p rPvE 10, you have to win 2p rPvE 10 once. And before that, you have to win 1p rPvE 10 once.

(Just like campaign-maps are only enabled by beating the other first. Because 4p is easier than 1p right? so it would require a certain lvl of skill to win that)

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9 hours ago, Xamos said:

Wouldn¬īt it be easier to set the constraint of 4p rPvE 10 to:¬†

  • Before you can play 4p rPvE 10, you have to win 2p rPvE 10 once. And before that, you have to win 1p rPvE 10 once.

(Just like campaign-maps are only enabled by beating the other first. Because 4p is easier than 1p right? so it would require a certain lvl of skill to win that)

Interesting alternative.

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13 hours ago, Xamos said:

Wouldn¬īt it be easier to set the constraint of 4p rPvE 10 to:¬†

  • Before you can play 4p rPvE 10, you have to win 2p rPvE 10 once. And before that, you have to win 1p rPvE 10 once.

(Just like campaign-maps are only enabled by beating the other first. Because 4p is easier than 1p right? so it would require a certain lvl of skill to win that)

People can just reroll until they get an easy 1p rPvE 10 to win it and they can get hard carried in an easy 2p map too. Then we will start seeing the above issues in 2p rPvE 10 too, this is not currently the case thankfully

Edited by Little_Ducky
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+ while the layouts can be quite unfair in 1pl they time limit if very forgiving

When I did my first 10s in open beta with Stonekin decks I often needed 30-40mins for that. This was a good challenge, enjoying and I learned a lot - but that was a complete different gameplay as my first 4player 10

I remember those, a group around Treim was looking for a Nature starter for their pos4 and he asked me to join for that. My job was just some heal support, not to touch T3 and waiting for Treim to bail me out.

It was a blast when we finally hit T4, often with less then 5-6min left and all those guys started with their Batas and BHs. In the first matches I often thought "damn we can't win it anymore" but still won as their decks were fast enough to deal with it.

4pl and 1pl are so different that they are very hard to compare

Edited by Volin
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why that should help? People will still want the reward for the achievement, and if 3 good players can carry one player that have no clue, it is still doable even for most clueless players, while in 1p there is no way someone will carry you so that one would be actually significantly harder from this point of view.

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43 minutes ago, Kubik said:

why that should help? People will still want the reward for the achievement, and if 3 good players can carry one player that have no clue, it is still doable even for most clueless players, while in 1p there is no way someone will carry you so that one would be actually significantly harder from this point of view.

The problem from what I understand is not the difficulty of the achievement, but the many clueless players that ramdomly join 4p rPVE10 lobbies without proper knowledge of what to expect and how to win a rPVE10 map. These people are not always carryable as rPVE10 is hard (as it should be). So these folks are massively diminishing the enjoyment of regular rPVE10 players like Volin and the duck. Hence the suggestion to remove the achievement and thereby removing the incentive for players to join rPVE10 without the proper preparation.

Switching the achievement to singleplayer would prevent frustration and lack of enjoyment of the game for the regulars.

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1 hour ago, Fundus said:

Simply kick players who are obviously not ready for rPvE 10 i dont know whats the big deal.

How are you supposed to find that out though?
There are people with low ranks and deck levels, that are very well capable of carrying their own weight, while others have high ranks and deck levels and are more a burden than a help.

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26 minutes ago, Metagross31 said:

How are you supposed to find that out though?
There are people with low ranks and deck levels, that are very well capable of carrying their own weight, while others have high ranks and deck levels and are more a burden than a help.

Actually there arent many people who can handle hard lost souls maps where you get insta attacked by vigils at T1.

When i play rPvE 10(which is not very often) i want everyone to have meta decks with fire T1. Of course there are plenty of players with meta decks who still fail because they either attack too early or refuse to help their teammates with eruptions thats why i said "simply kick players who are OBVIOUSLY not ready for rPvE 10" because you never know if someone you just met is ready for hard maps or not but you can definitly reduce the risk of instantly losing a match by kicking people who have something like Nox Trooper+Splicer+Motivate as their T1.

 

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As it currently stands u have 2 camps of people. The experienced players like fundus who are gatekeeping and will only play amongst themselves, I never did this before as I love playing with randoms but now I am forced to. The other camp of people is players wanting their boosters and have no interest in making progressions with rPvE 10 or have any desire to learn to play it properly. Experienced players or people want to learn to play 10s properly tend to be at a point in their game where they don't actually need these boosters. I believe the purpose of the achievement was to get more people playing rPvE 10, but nearly everyone who's gotten their boosters don't touch 10s ever again

 

 

Edited by Little_Ducky
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