Map-wide Buffs

[Ekhazarhaze]

Hello.

I was wondering if there is a way to make global buffs more readable, for example when using shrines you see 1 icon per player witch dont make much sense, i belive it should show buffs that afect you alone and maybe add slot or two as there are 4 slots now. There are lot of situation where wheel is used and all clarity is lost becouse it show 1 wheel buff 4 times.

[Metagross31]

If I remember correctly, this is something that we cannot easily change, since we don't have the game's source code.

@Kubik can you confirm or deny that?

[Kubik]

There is 6 slots, we already tried increasing that, but it did not work.
Showing only own buffs was discussed shortly, but refused, as they are considered important 😞

So I do not see any good solution here 😞

[Ekhazarhaze]

They may be considered important but truly are they? Each card says it efect is global or not if i see 1 icon i know everybody have the same and it stop unnesery info.

[Kubik]

not all icons are same for all players

[Sacriefice]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:16 PM, Kubik said:

There is 6 slots, we already tried increasing that, but it did not work.
Showing only own buffs was discussed shortly, but refused, as they are considered important 😞

So I do not see any good solution here 😞

Would it be possible to remove duplicate buff icons, or giving temporary buffs priority?
Every time someone places wheels in rpve my SoW activation suffers from it, because I don't see when it runs out, instead wheels unnecessarily take up every single icon slot.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sacriefice

[Kubik]

There are no "duplicate" icons per say, Each of the icons tell you different thing, and unless a player does not know the cards effects they would not know that they are also affected.

[Volin]

1 hour ago, Sacriefice said:

Every time someone places wheels in rpve my SoW activation suffers from it

Feel you. 2 or 4 yellow Inc Mo buffs but you can't see an Enlightenment or Shrine.

Or one of the 3 Wheel buffs shown multiple times...

Makes no sense to me either.

 

If there is technical limitations, k then we have to deal with that, but if temporary buffs like Shrines and global buffs from spells would have priority, or could at least be shown next to one Wheel or Inc Mo buff that would be great QoL

[Hirooo]

We could hide all Inc Mo icons besides one though 🤔

 

[Volin]

21 hours ago, Kubik said:

There are no "duplicate" icons per say

Just saying. This goes for all Shrines btw.

[Kubik]

7 minutes ago, Volin said:

21 hours ago, Kubik said:

There are no "duplicate" icons per say

Just saying. This goes for all Shrines btw.

Why not quote rest of that message? There is no duplicate information. For someone who knows the card by a picture there are redundant information, but someone who does not know it, can see that the effect is affecting all 4 players, instead of just 1 player.

And to be clear I do not question it would be better, if this state could be shown with less icons (like stacked icons for same effect affecting multiple players, number of affected players shown on the image, or different color of the frame around the image, or ...), but the fact that they are not duplicates.

[Volin]

They all show the same information, but are no duplicates... yeah sure ^^

[Dutchy]

I'm sure this has been mentioned or requested multiple times. But isn't it possible to only show whatever global; effect affects you? Like I do not care to see someone else's Enlightenment. But I do care if I can see if there is an Ice Age active. 

[Volin]

Not possible is just not possible, everybody can (or should) understand. As I said once to you, even "this is too much work" would be a good reason to reject a request.

But saying 4 times the same icon (with the exact same information and text) is "not duplicate" is just ... 🤐

Edited January 29, 2023 by Volin

[Kubik]

1 hour ago, Dutchy said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned or requested multiple times. But isn't it possible to only show whatever global; effect affects you? Like I do not care to see someone else's Enlightenment. But I do care if I can see if there is an Ice Age active. 

I believe it to be possible, but was refused by designers.

On 1/7/2023 at 10:16 PM, Kubik said:

There is 6 slots, we already tried increasing that, but it did not work.
Showing only own buffs was discussed shortly, but refused, as they are considered important 😞

So I do not see any good solution here 😞

 

1 hour ago, Volin said:

Not possible is just not possible, everybody can (or should) understand. As I said once to you, even "this is too much work" would be a good reason to reject a request.

But saying 4 times the same icon (with the exact same information and text) is "not duplicate" is just ... 🤐

It directly tells you that buff with same icon (which does not mean it is same buff) affects also other players, and you maybe did not notice the difference between them, because you know all the cards, but they have different border colors depending on if it affects you, or someone else in your team. Maybe you should check dictionary for the word "duplicate", because they have an additional information, and I get it that such information is not useful for you, but it is there.

[Sacriefice]

On 1/28/2023 at 7:00 PM, Kubik said:

There are no "duplicate" icons per say, Each of the icons tell you different thing, and unless a player does not know the cards effects they would not know that they are also affected.

This is really just semantics, we mean the same things. Even if it is not the same, it still is similar, redundant information. To my knowledge there are only 2 differentiations

1. effects that only affect yourself
2. effects that affect yourself and your teammates

possibly 3 for effects that also affect your enemy, but I don't think they are displayed for you.
I suspect there is any effect in the game that only targets a specific teammate.

Quote

Showing only own buffs was discussed shortly, but refused, as they are considered important 😞

So I do not see any good solution here 😞

I'd like to know what the reason was. My first guess was pvp, but do enemies even see your buffs?
Do you mean with 'only your own buffs' that this doesn't include teammates buff that also affects you?
If this is the case I would agree.
Otherwise I don't see a good reason to display buff icons for every teammate for the same reason, that a single buff can clog up your global buff displays, to the point that you don't see any other buff anymore.

[Volin]

52 minutes ago, Sacriefice said:

This is really just semantics

Not even that. 3x the exact same icon with the exact same wording are per definition a duplicate. But who even cares.🥱

As you say it is a redundant non-information and has nothing to do at all with knowing what the card does.

If I have 1x, 2x, 3x or 4x the info to hover that a kill gives me 15% void return has no value on the information. I dare to say it is even the opposite, it is additional non-info that only may confuse.

@WindHunter Can you clarify if this is really a intended design decision or has other reasons we may not see, as it seems to be no technical limitation?

[WindHunter]

It is difficult for me to say whether or not this was a conscious design choice, because I have no knowledge of a conversation about it. I remember previously asking for more global slots, but I do not ever remember discussing limiting the amount of buffs to only showing your own buff. It is very possible this discussion happened prior to me joining the team, or perhaps without my knowledge (remember I have only been lead designer for a year now), or perhaps so long ago I no longer remember. 

I have not followed the thread here, but I would be open to changes to the existing system which I think fails in several key ways to convey the information most important to the player at the time. 

[Kubik]

8 hours ago, Sacriefice said:

Do you mean with 'only your own buffs' that this doesn't include teammates buff that also affects you?

I mean buffs on you, not buffs on your teammates. So the icons with green border would stay. With reverse engineering you can not say for sure if something will be possible until it is done, but I believe this should be possible.