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Pigslord

Do you think Frost/Fire has a place thematically ?

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Even though Nature/Shadow only has one card, this proves EA at one point, wanted to go in that direction.

On the other hand Frost/Fire was never talked about. We won't see any new content for a while but I still think it's fun to try and imagine what this faction would look like.

Is it just too far-fetched ? Ideas for a faction ability?

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Well I'm quite sure that after game is up and running they could try to complete that Shadow-Nature "edition" with community helping. Like graphic modelling, monster/spell ideas...

About Fires-Frost they could make like a "Melted" edition of cards with high HP but loosing it per second, since they're melting. :D (Like a method of that Shadow card, but no liefsteal- Don't know it's name, don't blame me, it has been 5 years. :D )

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Well I'm quite sure that after game is up and running they could try to complete that Shadow-Nature "edition" with community helping. Like graphic modelling, monster/spell ideas...

About Fires-Frost they could make like a "Melted" edition of cards with high HP but loosing it per second, since they're melting. :D (Like a method of that Shadow card, but no liefsteal- Don't know it's name, don't blame me, it has been 5 years. :D )

I don't like this idea, what if you play for example bad harvest and have to defend for a long period of time, your units would just melt away right before your eyes. Nah, I'd rather call this faction Chaos as they are defensive and aggressive at the same time. They have bombs and all that chaotic stuff. To bring the trouble to their enemies.

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I don't like this idea, what if you play for example bad harvest and have to defend for a long period of time, your units would just melt away right before your eyes.

I would suggest not choosing fire/frost faction to defend in that case.

Perhaps the units could have high dmg (fire) with high defense (frost) but be more expensive (power). Their stats/power to summon would all be increased.

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I don't like this idea, what if you play for example bad harvest and have to defend for a long period of time, your units would just melt away right before your eyes. Nah, I'd rather call this faction Chaos as they are defensive and aggressive at the same time. They have bombs and all that chaotic stuff. To bring the trouble to their enemies.

Well I'm quite sure there could be a spell that would change a terrain into Non-melting zone where Frost-Fire troops would not loose HP per second. I mean Every colour has it's ups and downs. The more i think of this fire-frost, the more i'm hyped actually. :D

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Mechanical units also would be cool for fire/frost

You mean like steampunky units ? I don't see how that fits fire/frost at all to be honest :3

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You mean like steampunky units ? I don't see how that fits fire/frost at all to be honest :3

Yeah steampunk :) Actually a lot of games make that relation , fire and water = mechanical

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You mean like steampunky units ? I don't see how that fits fire/frost at all to be honest :3

Yeah steampunk :) Actually a lot of games make that relation , fire and water = mechanical

Well in some strange way it does. When you try to forge a blade you melt iron, and then put it in water to cool it off. So actually robot race would be brilliant.

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Well in some strange way it does. When you try to forge a blade you melt iron, and then put it in water to cool it off. So actually robot race would be brilliant.

I guess what you mentioned makes sense. What would be their attributes though ? 

I was thinking of something like not being able to be healed with regrowth or other healing spells since they are not a living organism but rather a machine. Perhaps they would also take more damage from like thunderstorm :P. This being said, I don't really know any + attributes.The only one I can think of is like being immune ( to a degree ) to shadow spells since they are about sacrificing, although machines can't be sacrificed because they aren't living organisms...

What do you guys think ?

 

 

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That sounds cool, yeah I could see them be immune to some spells. That would make sense since they are mechanical and not biological. Let's implement it like that.

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I guess what you mentioned makes sense. What would be their attributes though ? 

I was thinking of something like not being able to be healed with regrowth or other healing spells since they are not a living organism but rather a machine. Perhaps they would also take more damage from like thunderstorm :P. This being said, I don't really know any + attributes.The only one I can think of is like being immune ( to a degree ) to shadow spells since they are about sacrificing, although machines can't be sacrificed because they aren't living organisms...

What do you guys think ?

 

 

Well, I would not give them healing ability since that is Nature's thing. Since we combine agressive - Fire and deffensive - Frost we should give them something like faster regeneration when not fighting- at pools, buildings. + Ability to ressurect fallen robots in area for next 5 seconds. (3 orb thingy i would say) A minus could be like when you freeze them and use Lava field/ eruption you unfreeze them or so. That could be stupid or pretty complexed, idk. :P

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If it is implemented, they should have some sort of theme/skill. (bandits have lifestealer, stonekin have adamant skin, twilight have transform and lost souls have revanant's blessing).

Maybe they could get out of cc 15% faster? Or take 30% less damage from buildings? Maybe ice shields last longer on them?

 

What if they all had a suicide ability where they blow up? That could get OP though.

What if they are not dazed when summoned??? Or have less daze. Obviously they would need terrible stats to make up for this OP skill, and it might change the metagame....

 

All of this is speculative, of course, and I don't think it would really be implemented. Affecting the balance would also be tricky, because fire-frost is strong as it is.

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Well, I would not give them healing ability since that is Nature's thing. Since we combine agressive - Fire and deffensive - Frost we should give them something like faster regeneration when not fighting- at pools, buildings. + Ability to ressurect fallen robots in area for next 5 seconds. (3 orb thingy i would say) A minus could be like when you freeze them and use Lava field/ eruption you unfreeze them or so. That could be stupid or pretty complexed, idk. :P

  1. I'm not sure if that was a response to my suggestion, but I wasn't suggestion giving that faction any heal spells, but rather suggestion that they don't get healed by healing spells. I think that's what you said, but I'll say again to avoid confusion.
  2. Yeah, that makes a bit of sense. I mean, organism take (sometimes) a long time to recover from wounds, but machines don't, since their parts can just be replaced and they would work again. So I agree with that.
  3. Ability to ressurect fallen robots is something that either all the fire/frost units should have or none. I believe that giving all of the units this ability is OP in many situations...
  4. Another minus could be if you use lava field or any fire/lava spell on them they will become weak ( do less dmg or take more dmg ) because they are hot and they are made of metal.

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  1. I'm not sure if that was a response to my suggestion, but I wasn't suggestion giving that faction any heal spells, but rather suggestion that they don't get healed by healing spells. I think that's what you said, but I'll say again to avoid confusion.
  2. Yeah, that makes a bit of sense. I mean, organism take (sometimes) a long time to recover from wounds, but machines don't, since their parts can just be replaced and they would work again. So I agree with that.
  3. Ability to ressurect fallen robots is something that either all the fire/frost units should have or none. I believe that giving all of the units this ability is OP in many situations...
  4. Another minus could be if you use lava field or any fire/lava spell on them they will become weak ( do less dmg or take more dmg ) because they are hot and they are made of metal.

1. I'm not sure fire-frost really cares about inability to heal. Maybe ravage doesn't work, but that's it (maybe no individual spells can be played on them?). It would really only hurt 2v2, and fire-frost in an uncommon 2v2 faction.

at 2, maybe they can have a 'repair' option that works exactly like well or repair (costs power depending on health and only repairs if not attacked in 20 seconds).

At 4, the way this could be done is to just alter the spells themselves. So certain spells are abilities would deal extra damage to Mechs (like how scythe fiends do 50% more damage to demons or beasts, make lavafield and thunderstorm do more/less damage vs mechs) and just classify the fire-nat units as Mechs. That also gives the option to have "mech" cards in other factions, if we wanted to expand. Not that I want to, because I like the cards the way they were, but I still think that would be the best way to do it, hypothetically speaking.

Really though, I think making the units robots in animation could be a good idea, but I don't think they should be radically different. 

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1. I'm not sure fire-frost really cares about inability to heal. Maybe ravage doesn't work, but that's it (maybe no individual spells can be played on them?). It would really only hurt 2v2, and fire-frost in an uncommon 2v2 faction.

at 2, maybe they can have a 'repair' option that works exactly like well or repair (costs power depending on health and only repairs if not attacked in 20 seconds).

At 4, the way this could be done is to just alter the spells themselves. So certain spells are abilities would deal extra damage to Mechs (like how scythe fiends do 50% more damage to demons or beasts, make lavafield and thunderstorm do more/less damage vs mechs) and just classify the fire-nat units as Mechs. That also gives the option to have "mech" cards in other factions, if we wanted to expand. Not that I want to, because I like the cards the way they were, but I still think that would be the best way to do it, hypothetically speaking.

Really though, I think making the units robots in animation could be a good idea, but I don't think they should be radically different. 

1. I think they do care about the inability to be healed, but to a certain degree. Unless they have some other way of healing, these Mechs units would be kinda useless for example in rPvE. Heals is something that was really needed in rPvE I believe.

2. That could work. It makes sense that they would have to wait since they are a combination of a lot of dmg and a lot of defense. These mech units would not be good for speedrunning Is my guess, since they have to wait to be healed in any way. Waiting is something speedrunners don't want to do.

Perhaps once you use that "repair"  ability, if the unit is getting atacked he  "repairs"  slower, but if he isn't getting atacked he "repairs" faster. That could make for some interesting strategies/situations I think.

4. Well, I think that it would be way more logical for thunderstorm/lava field to do more damage agaisnt mechs, instead of less. I don't think I have to explain why :P. I also like the cards the way they are but I think that if he add something, there must be a new  "class" added, like you said. In this case the  "Mechs". This could be used for my suggestion of shadow spells ( sacrificing ones) do a lot less dmg to  "mechs ", since they are robots and not living organisms.

They should indeed not be radically different, but we must find an ability that all the "mechs"  have. Just like bandits, stonekin etc..

 

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2, maybe they can have a 'repair' option that works exactly like well or repair (costs power depending on health and only repairs if not attacked in 20 seconds).

 

I really like this idea.

Having the repair as their faction ability is actually pretty flavorful since other than ravage the faction won't get any heals. But I do think it would be pretty damned weak, would have to give them a bonus for repairing; maybe repair + upgrades ? 

Like if the unit gains stats or an ability if it goes through the whole repair cycle

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I've always thought that a mechanical faction would fit for many reasons:

  1. Frost and Fire have most mechanical units to begin with. Nature has none and shadow only has a few exceptions (like Death Ray)
  2. It would fit thematically.A burning, hot core which propels the cold machinery around it. Fits perfectly.
  3. Machines are direct and though. Both, fire and frost are not finesse oriented like Nature and Shadow are, they are about power (offensive and defensive power)

Also, I think there would be enough machines already ingame that it would not be too big issue to make textures for them to be honest. Also, fire + frost already has some very powerful and interesting machine/building combos. Like Thermite hill + building spells or Tremor + Rallying Banner.

 

Anyway, I too agree that it would be interesting if those units could not be healed by nature spells. However, I think in return, every ability that can heal structures should also be allowed to heal mechanical units. Then, you will have to think whether you spend Kobold Trick on your unit or really want to keep it for defense.

Naturally, spells like Ravage or Bloodlust should still work. I also think that the faction should have an own healing ability which works only on mechanical units. I think a slow healing over time would fit gameplay wise since they will probably around for some time anyway as they are not so easily killed after all.

 

Edit: Btw. I think what could fit the faction very well is a passive auto repair ability. With such a faction, you have to think in longer terms and since it will not very as mobile as other factions, a way to passively heal them while they move from A to B is not overpowered. Naturally, the heal wouldn't work when fighting.

Edited by Mental Omega

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However, I think in return, every ability that can heal structures should also be allowed to heal mechanical units. Then, you will have to think whether you spend Kobold Trick on your unit or really want to keep it for defense.

That's a fantastic idea in my opinion. It's also a rather logical one, since buildings and Mechs are no organisms. This would make it more challenging, since like you said, the player would have to choose between repairing their unit or their buildings. This being said, I believe that It could be a nice idea that Mechs would be considered as buildings to some degree. Perhaps there could be some unit that could make itself stationary and then a Skyelf templar/commander could use their ability on it.

Like if the unit gains stats or an ability if it goes through the whole repair cycle

I believe that the unit should indeed get a buff of some kind after he goes through the whole repair cycle. I'm just having a hard time figuring out a buff, since I would rather not have a " takes 15% less dmg " kind of buff.

 

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I believe that the unit should indeed get a buff of some kind after he goes through the whole repair cycle. I'm just having a hard time figuring out a buff, since I would rather not have a " takes 15% less dmg " kind of buff.

 

One thing that could be cool would be a t3 unit that learns to fly after getting upgraded

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One thing that could be cool would be a t3 unit that learns to fly after getting upgraded

Meh, I don't think that that is good enough.. The word "upgrade"  gave me an idea though.

Let's say the mechinal unit is only able to be repaired once he is under 50% of it's heath. What if the player would be able to  "transform/upgrade" their T1 unit into a T2 after that unit has been "repaired" once ? It would only be able to go from T1 to T2, or T2 to T3, or T3 to T4. Of course to "upgrade" him into a higher tier card you would have to spend power on it.

I don't know, what ya think ?

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I think that's too much like the Twilight transformation ability. I would just keep it simple and straight forward, after all fire and frost are no finesse armies like nature or shadow.

Give it a passive ability. I like the repairing, but I would just make it a passive which works slowly outside of combat.

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Meh, I don't think that that is good enough.. The word "upgrade"  gave me an idea though.

Let's say the mechinal unit is only able to be repaired once he is under 50% of it's heath. What if the player would be able to  "transform/upgrade" their T1 unit into a T2 after that unit has been "repaired" once ? It would only be able to go from T1 to T2, or T2 to T3, or T3 to T4. Of course to "upgrade" him into a higher tier card you would have to spend power on it.

I don't know, what ya think ?

Could work out !

Balancing that would be hard. Would you need to be T2 yourself to upgrade?

I don't know how similar this would be to the transformation mechanism (EDIT : woops, looks like Mental Omega pointed that out)

Edited by Pigslord

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I think that's too much like the Twilight transformation ability. I would just keep it simple and straight forward, after all fire and frost are no finesse armies like nature or shadow.

Give it a passive ability. I like the repairing, but I would just make it a passive which works slowly outside of combat.

Oh yeah, forgot about the Twilight transformation ability.. Hmm.. What if after the unit was repaired, he got an ability that could be activated every 1 min let's say and for 10 secs the player would be able to spawn undazzed units around it ? Or perhaps that one suggestions of mine where they could make themselfs stationary (becoming a "building"  and thus healing units around them if not atacked and making it possible for skyelf templar/commander to use their ability on it) ? 

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