Stonekin - Faction Discussion Thread

[WindHunter]

I think Core Dredge (b) should be considered the PvE variant of the card. In that context, if the player were intending to run a Core Dredge + Rageflame composition, Core Dredge(b) and Rageflame(r) would be the proper combination. Core Dredge(b) does not benefit additionally from the new Rageflame(b)'s freeze compared to normal freezes with damage reduction. Either way, Core Dredge(b) deals the same amount of damage. This leaves Rageflame(r) to combo with Core Dredge, while Rageflame(b) can combo with other units such as Stone Warrior, Deepfang, etc. 

We have looked into Rageflame's ability a bit over the last few days and it does not seem immediately possible to fix the issue where the timer completely resets when it stops attacking. The mechanic which is used for Rageflame's freeze typically works by applying a timer, which when it counts down to zero, automatically applies an effect. But, this seems to not be the case when combined with a Channel-style attack ability where instead the mechanic requires application for the entire duration in order to activate. We will continue to look into other potential options for the freeze application.

On a different topic, the suggestion to reduce Stone Warrior's ability cost has been brought up a few times now. I would point everyone to the opening post where you can see Stone Warrior is already receiving a 20p cost reduction on its ability. In fact, the proposed changes to Stone Warrior are already live on the test server. 

[Xamos]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:48 PM, Cocofang said:

I'm against any damage buffs to Rageflame. The card has a very supportive design.

I am not sure if that is the right way to go here. 

Tho applying a freeze that does not have the dmg reduction sounds nice on paper, it still takes very long time to actually freeze the enemy unit, can be interrupted and is unable to affect air units. So why would I include a pure supportive unit-card in my deck, that takes up a precious deckslot while I only play the card ~ twice a game? And while being mostly inferior to other freeze options like Volin pointed out. 

If it would be spammable - either by changing the way its freeze applys to enemies to benefit from more of its kind, or by increasing Ragesflames dmg - it would be much more justified to spare a deckslot for the card.

 

Btw., what about giving Rageflame rage? 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Xamos

[Cocofang]

There are plenty of supportive units that feel good to use. Snapjaws, Aggressor, Grim Bahir, Winter Witch, Dryad, Shaman, Lost Dragon, Razorshard, Crystal Fiend, Gemeye.

The balancing act is always giving it enough supportive power to justify summoning it instead of another damage dealer and allocating a deck slot. I certainly think the concept of "automatically freezing multiple enemies through regular attacks" can fit the bill. Without turning the unit itself into another damage dealer that can just be spammed in a homogeneous army.

If anything being able to attack and freeze air would justify a damage nerf.

How fast a single Rageflame can freeze a target is obviously easily changeable (retaining the current application). Hitting air is. And every freeze in the game can be assigned a different damage modifier. Which means Rageflame could apply freezes that have different damage modifiers than other sources of freeze, so other than -50%. Even damage bonuses. But I haven't looked into how it interacts with damage amps specifically against frozen units.

Changing the entire mechanic to instead applying the freeze similarly to Maelstrom (which means multiple Rageflames would freeze the targets faster, up to the point of instantaneous) seems theoretically possible but I would have to get tested. In that case you'd have to decide on several breakpoints. When should a single Rageflame freeze? How many Rageflames should reach the same freezing-speed as a current live one (5 seconds)? And how many Rageflames should freeze near instantly (<1 second)? Could obviously also come with damage and power cost adjustments.

[Xamos]

Well I do agree to that: 

On 5/20/2022 at 1:35 AM, Cocofang said:

If anything being able to attack and freeze air would justify a damage nerf.

being able to hit air would imo be something necessary if Rageflame wants to be able to compete for the deckslot with simpler freeze-cards like coldsnap. 

On that regard, its fire counterpart unit - Vulcan - should then also be able to hin air. Would be a nice QoL (and since it has a different attack multiplier than Magma Hurler it should be fine)

 

For the supportive units there are still 2 groups, either being spammable or not.

On 5/20/2022 at 1:35 AM, Cocofang said:

There are plenty of supportive units that feel good to use. Snapjaws, Aggressor, Grim Bahir, Winter Witch, Dryad, Shaman, Lost Dragon, Razorshard, Crystal Fiend, Gemeye.

Agressor, Grim Bahin, Winter Witch, Shaman, LostDragon, Gemeye are all spammable. The others you mentioned are debateable. 

It would be fine if it doesnt get the freeze-mechanic of Maelstorm, because then multiple Rageflames would insta-freeze their enemies. But maybe it would be able to split the 2 affinities into 2 routes - like Gemeye: one mainly supportive, the other one being able do deal more damage. 

So I´d either give the red affinity additionally to its effects Siege or Rage - both fitting for red increasing its damage in specific instances, but not simply increasing it´s damage.

Rageflame is Ultrarare after all and can certaily feel like a keycard in advanced Stonekin decks.