Sylvan Gate - Upcoming Changes

[WindHunter]

As part of our upcoming Nature balance changes, Sylvan Gate will be receiving the following proposed changes. Please note that all changes proposed here are provisional and as such as subject to change:

Iteration 1
Sylvan Gate rework

1. Power cost: 110p --> 80p
2. Add *Accelerated Construction* - " Construction time is reduced by 50%."
3. Linked Fire --> Repeater
   A. Range: 25m --> 100m
   B. New Description: "Is able to repeat the root network and bridge the distance between entities connected to it. Those entities may then support each other even across wide distances although the Sylvan Gate itself does not grant any additional support. Additionally, the gate can connect support between other root entities from an extremely long range of 100m."
   C. Sylvan Gate no longer provides support itself
4. Move affinities to their own passive and change Blessed to mimic Root Nexus (b):
   A. Blessed Supporter(b) --> Tainted Supporter(g) - "Friendly entities connected to the root network within a 25m radius around Sylvan Gate will deal damage that can not be warded off by damage reducing abilities or shields."
   B. *Infused Supporter* - "Friendly entities connected to the root network within a 25m radius around Sylvan Gate will deal 25% more damage."

Iteration 1 Goals
Sylvan Gate is in a prime place for a redesign. We would like to turn Sylvan Gate into a long-distance Root Network repeater, a role that fits perfectly with its existing tunnel ability. To do this, we gave it a cost decrease, accelerated construction, and allowed it to pull support from up to 100m away. The heal was removed to stop the building from pulling support from the frontline root network unit. This should not be a major blow, as other cards of the same tier do a significantly better job providing healing in a static location.

[Omnilisk924]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:54 PM, WindHunter said:

4. Move affinities to their own passive and change Blessed to mimic Root Nexus (b):
   A. Blessed Supporter(b) --> Tainted Supporter(g) - "Friendly entities connected to the root network within a 25m radius around Sylvan Gate will deal damage that can not be warded off by damage reducing abilities or shields."

 

That doesn't really sound like it's mimicking what root nexus B does, unless there's also a hidden change happening to that too?

 

But to be honest, I don't think this will change where Sylvan gate will be in the long run. 3 root nexus get about a similar connection range for only 10 more power at an earlier tier. If there's one thing I learned about making root network defenses on Insane God Expert, is that the initial network needs to be set up quick. By the time a nature player gets T3, they'll most likely already have a system of root nexus, which would make a sylvan gate doing it redundant. I personally liked the heal it gives too, but eh.

 

Also, increasing the connection range increase doesn't matter as much when the aura from the affinities is still 25m. You'll still be placing it near your front line, which kinda wastes a decent amount of that connection range, as well as still needing 1 at each place you're defending at. The idea was to have 1 of them being the big connection for a whole network, right?

[Lans]

2 hours ago, Omnilisk924 said:

By the time a nature player gets T3, they'll most likely already have a system of root nexus, which would make a sylvan gate doing it redundant.

That might be true for some maps (maybe like Insane God which I have not tried yet) but for Defending Hope where you have easy T3, that might not be the case. Although I do think this should have some weight.

 

2 hours ago, Omnilisk924 said:

3 root nexus get about a similar connection range for only 10 more power

Sort of but 3 Root Nexus span 100m linearly but covers like 1/8th the area of a true 100m radius. Does it matter? This also would depend on map/placement.

 

In total, for cases where you do want to cover about a 100m defense zone, this a huge deal... For cases were you need T2 or not that large of an area anyway? Well, you can/might stick to Root Nexus...

 

 

On 3/26/2022 at 7:54 PM, WindHunter said:

D. Sylvan Gate no longer provides support itself

I guess this makes sense with rest of the changes but I guess I'll still somehow miss it despite it wasn't that easy to use it as backline root support anyhow...

[WindHunter]

 

5 minutes ago, Lans said:

I guess this makes sense with rest of the changes but I guess I'll still somehow miss it despite it wasn't that easy to use it as backline root support anyhow...

Sylvan Gate never really "added" support, it only subtracted it. If it is within the 40m necessary to heal a unit, and that unit is damage, Sylvan Gate pulls support to heal faster, taking support away from the frontline unit and no longer providing support itself. The change is superficial because the scenario in which it actually provided support was nearly nonexistent. And if you were using Sylvan Gates as your root batteries you were building very inefficiently. 

2 hours ago, Omnilisk924 said:

That doesn't really sound like it's mimicking what root nexus B does, unless there's also a hidden change happening to that too?

 

But to be honest, I don't think this will change where Sylvan gate will be in the long run. 3 root nexus get about a similar connection range for only 10 more power at an earlier tier. If there's one thing I learned about making root network defenses on Insane God Expert, is that the initial network needs to be set up quick. By the time a nature player gets T3, they'll most likely already have a system of root nexus, which would make a sylvan gate doing it redundant. I personally liked the heal it gives too, but eh.

 

Also, increasing the connection range increase doesn't matter as much when the aura from the affinities is still 25m. You'll still be placing it near your front line, which kinda wastes a decent amount of that connection range, as well as still needing 1 at each place you're defending at. The idea was to have 1 of them being the big connection for a whole network, right?

There was a slight error in the description as it was an older one I forgot to update, but even then I think there is some misunderstanding occurring regarding the suggested changes. 3 Root Nexus cover 100m linearly, while a single Sylvan Gate covers 200m and connects support from every root entity within 100m in every direction. Sure on some maps that is not necessary, but this change is not oriented towards those maps. The buff effect is nice but not strictly necessary and barely factors into the strength calculations of the card. It is what you call in D&D a ribbon ability, nice when it works, but not a major loss when it does not.  

[Lans]

55 minutes ago, WindHunter said:

Sylvan Gate never really "added" support, it only subtracted it. If it is within the 40m necessary to heal a unit, and that unit is damage

At least I doubled check it in Forge before I said I'll miss it's root support... Yes, I did place Sylvan Gate outside the 40m heal range via Root Nexus and they did not heal up Spikeroot. I did see each shot of my U0 Spikeroot dealing a lot of damage. Is it best use? Nope! Is it better to not have it pull away support? Yes! Would I take Root Nexus and Sylvan Gate at same time after update? Most likely not?

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Lans
wrong screenshot

[Draconnor]

Looks great. Root nexus still would be usefull sometimes - but a small buff would be nice 😉

[Xamos]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:32 AM, WindHunter said:

while a single Sylvan Gate covers 200m and connects support from every root entity within 100m in every direction

So from this and your OP description, it is now still not clear to me whether Sylvan Gate can also provide support to your frontline that is 100m away from the gate, which was pulled from other battery-units 100m away. 

I am quite certain that it will only be able to provide support to units in a 25m radius around the gate, right? At least that was what I read on discord a while ago - pls correct me if I´m wrong now. 
Meaning you have to place it next to your front line, but the battery can be 100m away or even another 100m if there is a second Sylvan gate in between.
So it should definetely be more clear in the final description of the card: "Is able to repeat the root network and bridge the distance between entities connected to it. The gate can pull support between other root entities from an extremely long range of 100m, to then provide that pulled support to root entities in a radius of 25m around the gate."

Edited May 17, 2022 by Xamos

[WindHunter]

When I say that it connects to everything in a 100m radius, that is exactly what I mean, both in terms of pulling and providing support. The battery can be 100m south of the Sylvan Gate and the frontline attacker can be 100m north, and the battery will still be able to support the frontline attacker. 

[Xamos]

Oh well that´s pretty cool then! Thanks for clearification. 😄